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Wii U vs Sega Saturn, which “failed console” was worse for its company?

Which console was worse for its company?

  • Sega Saturn

  • Wii U


Results are only viewable after voting.

AppleKid

Member
Feb 21, 2018
1,099
Absolutely. And as you can see, there’s no criticism in the post I replied to. When someone had something of actual substance to say later, I engaged with them politely.
It was the same critique of this being an obvious-answer question. There is an interesting parallel between these two systems (and I would argue the vita as well) but the title chosen and focus of the OP feels like an attention grab more than one to promote discussion. Not sure if "attention grab" is even the right word here, but I wouldn't quite call it editorialized or clickbait.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 249

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Oct 25, 2017
28,828
It was the same critique of this being an obvious-answer question. There is an interesting parallel between these two systems (and I would argue the vita as well) but the title chosen and focus of the OP feels like an attention grab more than one to promote discussion. Not sure if "attention grab" is even the right word here, but I wouldn't quite call it editorialized or clickbait.
Yes, and someone later actually articulated that point. I agreed with them, too! I think i can do better with my titles. With that said, a minimum expected standard of “people read OP” shouldn’t be an unreasonable ask; the post I responded to also had no critique of any kind, but just the latest snide passive aggressive comment by the poster about my threads in a line of similar ones made over the last few days.
 

Dekuman

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,627
Obviously Saturn
Switch followed Wii U and it's my most played console since the SNES when I was a young kid. Most played hardware since the DS
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,294
Brazil
The saturn library makes it even more of a failure because holy shit you failed with exclusive arcade perfect ports of the best arcade games ever

meanwhile the wiiu basically gave the 2 switch's best selling games
 

Kilgore

Member
Feb 5, 2018
2,762
Nintendo is flop resistant, they can flop but they recover like is nothing. They will probably flop again but they never sink. Mega CD and Sega Saturn flops were terrible for sega reputation.
 

Pogogacy

Member
Aug 3, 2018
104
Some of the highest rated and most influential games of all time, which continue to influence the DNA of game development to this day, are on the N64.
That said, I do think that Saturn with the full import library is actually a far more rounded console in terms of software than N64 is.
I would say the best games on the N64 are better than the best games on the Saturn (although it's closer than many believe), but the Saturn's overall library trounces the N64s in terms of depth, quality and genre diversity.

It's a similar story for the Wii U library vs Saturn library debate, although that one is much closer because, unlike the terminally overrated N64, the Wii U actually does have a decent library despite being a commercial failure.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,797
Nintendo is flop resistant, they can flop but they recover like is nothing. They will probably flop again but they never sink. Mega CD and Sega Saturn flops were terrible for sega reputation.
Was the Mega CD a flop? It has large library of excellent games. I've never checked the sales figures though.
32x was obviously a flop that did massive damage to Sega, granted.
 

NeoZeedeater

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,166
Nintendo could re-release the Atari Jaguar as their next console and still bounce back. They have been in a position for decades to easily weather the storms of a failed side project (Virtual Boy), failed add on (64DD), and failed console (Wii U).

Was the Mega CD a financial failure? It had tons of great games so it was great from an end user pov.
I don't think Sega CD/Mega CD ever counted as a financial failure. It was never meant to sell 1:1 with the main console. It was more of a luxury item aimed at older gamers, and priced accordingly. It sold fine given those expectations.
 
OP
OP

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Was the Mega CD a flop? It has large library of excellent games. I've never checked the sales figures though.
32x was obviously a flop that did massive damage to Sega, granted.
Yeah, it’s considered a flop in terms of prematurely terminated support and poor library, though sales were actually fairly impressive for an add on.
 

SturokBGD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,570
Ontario
Nobody remembers the Wii U as a failure, because nobody remembers the Wii U at all.

(Except for me. Maybe a couple of you guys).
 

NeoZeedeater

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,166
The Sega CD doesn't have a poor library. Once you look past the live action FMV crap, there's a bunch of good stuff.
 

kitchenmotors

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,400
Illinois
How is this even a thread? Lol

I’m curious how many million sellers Saturn had as far as software. Even if Wii U did horrible numbers on the hardware side, the software side was insane for Nintendo.
 
OP
OP

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andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,521
Columbus, OH
Eh... there are less than a dozen good games on the Sega CD, let’s not front.
what are some of your favorite Sega CD games you have personally played?

How is this even a thread? Lol

I’m curious how many million sellers Saturn had as far as software. Even if Wii U did horrible numbers on the hardware side, the software side was insane for Nintendo.
a better thread would have been "which console that underperformed in sales had the best library"
 

Zophar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,115
The Saturn was Sega's most popular console ever in Japan. If anything, the Dreamcast is the more comparable "failure".

Further, the Wii U was dead and buried almost immediately upon discontinuation and only enjoys some holdouts for homebrew reasons that will inevitably be obsolete against the Switch. The Saturn still enjoys an extremely vibrant fan legacy.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,099
32X, not Saturn, was the problem.

Wii U was basically Xbox 360 with a gamepad and that's fucking terrible, even though there are a few great games.
 

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,521
Columbus, OH
If the goal is to argue and count subjective opinions maybe. Saturn would stand a better chance at least.
it definitely would lead to better discussion rather than basically looking at the same sales history that has been studied repeatedly.

one of the main points of a message board that exists mainly to discuss video games is to discuss "subjective opinions".
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,680
Saturn failed to the point where Sega decided to bail on consoles.
Wii-U basically ate away all of the profits from the Wii.

Saturn was a bigger failure overall, Wii-U was a big failure by Nintendo standards.
 

AppleKid

Member
Feb 21, 2018
1,099
Yes, and someone later actually articulated that point. I agreed with them, too! I think i can do better with my titles. With that said, a minimum expected standard of “people read OP” shouldn’t be an unreasonable ask; the post I responded to also had no critique of any kind, but just the latest snide passive aggressive comment by the poster about my threads in a line of similar ones made over the last few days.
Fair enough, still probs better to just ignore all those one-liners without any meaningful critique as it distracts from the actual discussion you want to promote (eg my responses to your response are a distraction from the actual discussion).

Granted, I know you get your fair share of those types of responses that you sometimes ignore already. Occasionally from myself included lol
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,050
It's all about context. This question would be getting much different answers if, say, the Wii U had followed the Gamecube, and Nintendo didn't have their handheld branch as a buoy.

The difference between the Saturn and the Wii U is that the Wii U was released by a much more diversified and stable company. As the Wii U faltered, the 3DS picked up the slack. As the Gamecube faltered, the Gameboy Advance and early DS picked up the slack. And all the while, the surplus from past successes were managed properly.

As the Saturn faltered, there was nothing to pick up the slack.

It's likely that without the stellar company management during the DS/Wii days, as well as the success of the 3DS, Nintendo would not have been able to devote the kind of money to R&D that birthed the Switch. Not to mention the flood of games that was ready for it.
 

MrCunningham

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,287
To their credit, they tried their hardest to get Sonic on Saturn, circumstances and internal politics sunk the effort.
I think Sega of Japan had different sensibilities when it came to mascots. I think SOJ wanted to have a unique mascot for each console, as opposed to one recognizable mascot for the company, like Nintendo. Alex Kidd was the mascot for the Master System, Sonic was the mascot for Mega Drive/ Genesis and NiGHTS was meant to be the mascot for the Sega Saturn. Though Sega of America wanted Sonic to be the mascot for the entire company. Tom Kalinske really fought to get a Sonic game made for the Saturn with Sonic Extreme, but development was a nightmare for that game.

Sega of japan did bring back Sonic for the Dreamcast, but completely redesigned the character, so the Dreamcast era Sonic wouldn't be mistaken for the Genesis/ Mega Drive era Sonic.


32X, not Saturn, was the problem.
The 32X really wasn't much of a problem, to be honest. The 32X launched in November of 1994 and actually sold quite well for Sega from the start. The problem really was the Sega Saturn. The most fatal mistake that Sega made with the Saturn was launch it earlier than expected at retail. Which caused a supply constraint issue at launch and caused many retailers to boycott Sega for not giving them enough units at launch. This also helped kill the 32X as well.

The Sega Saturn was originally planned to be released on September 1995 in North America, but at E3 1995 after Sony's "$299.99" announcement, Sega was in panic mode and decided to launch the Saturn five months earlier than expected in May of 1995. Resulting in shortages at launch. Sega were worried that the Saturn couldn't compete if the released the console closer to the PSX at launch.
 

SMD

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,801
I think Sega of Japan had different sensibilities when it came to mascots. I think SOJ wanted to have a unique mascot for each console, as opposed to one recognizable mascot for the company, like Nintendo. Alex Kidd was the mascot for the Master System, Sonic was the mascot for genesis and NiGHTS was meant to be the mascot for the Sega Saturn. Though Sega of America wanted Sonic to be the mascot for the entire company. Tom Kalinske really fought to get a Sonic game made for the Saturn with Sonic Extreme, but development was a nightmare for that game.

Sega of japan did bring back Sonic for the Dreamcast, but completely redesigned the character, so the Dreamcast era Sonic wouldn't be mistaken for the Genesis/ Mega Drive era Sonic.




The 32X really wasn't much of a problem, to be honest. The 32X launched in November of 1994 and actually sold quite well for Sega from the start. The problem really was the Sega Saturn. The most fatal mistake that Sega made with the Saturn was launch it earlier than expected at retail. Which caused a supply constraint issue at launch and caused many retailers to boycott Sega for not giving them enough units at launch. This also helped kill the 32X as well.

The Sega Saturn was originally planned to be released on September 1995 in North America, but at E3 1995 after Sony's "$299.99" announcement, Sega was in panic mode and decided to launch the Saturn five months earlier than expected in May of 1995. Resulting in shortages at launch. Sega were worried that the Saturn couldn't compete if the released the console closer to the PSX at launch.
NiGHTS was never the mascot for the Saturn, I'm not sure where you got this idea from? Sure, it was the next big thing from Sonic Team but it certainly wasn't part of their identity like Sonic was.

Also Sega announced the earlier launch before Sony went up on stage with 299. The shortages were totally self inflicted and another part of the rivalry between the US and Japan branches.
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,194
The Wii U was a kick in the teeth that gave Nintendo the realization they needed to make the Switch as successful as it is.

The Saturn was the culmination of a lot of really bad decisions where Sega shot themselves in the foot multiple times.
 

MrCunningham

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,287
NiGHTS was never the mascot for the Saturn, I'm not sure where you got this idea from? Sure, it was the next big thing from Sonic Team but it certainly wasn't part of their identity like Sonic was.
Game magazines from the time were hyping NiGHT's as the new mascot for the Sega Saturn. The fact that it did come from Sonic Team, instead of a new Sonic game, also helped drive that notion home that NiGHT's was going to be the mascot for that console. But I guess Segata Sanshiro would be the true mascot for the system.
 
Aug 16, 2018
247
The Sega Saturn is what made me a Nintendo fan.

Imagine having every single Sonic the Hedgehog game on the Sega Genesis, and then super excited for the Sega Saturn to come out, because of course that brings with it the next incredible Sonic game.

We just got Sonic Jam (a collection of Sonic 1-3&K), Sonic 3D Blast (again, a game already on Sega Genesis), and Sonic R. Sonic R.

It didn't take long for me to explore Peach's castle after that.

(Wii U at least has 3D World)
 

nextJin

Member
Mar 17, 2018
313
Georgia
Other than the obvious replies already, the Wii U was a failed product to a great idea that turned into Switch.

If the Wii U hadn’t failed, we might not have ever gotten the Switch. It’s the same concept but just fully realized.

The Saturns successor was Dreamcast which was 100x easier to develop for but that’s about it. It killed the company image (or what was left) where Nintendo only had one major screw up prior which was Virtual Boy. Even then, Virtual Boy was small time and isolated.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,428
The context is so different here.

Nintendo already had the lowered expectations of being a '2nd console' to the 'hard core' AAA consoles of the Xbox and Playstation. Nintendo also fortunately had their exceptionally successful portable business as a crutch to keep them afloat.

Sega was going head to head as peers with Nintendo and Sony and just completely bombed.