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Wii U vs Sega Saturn, which “failed console” was worse for its company?
- Thread starter Deleted member 249
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OP
OP
Absolutely. And as you can see, there's no criticism in the post I replied to. When someone had something of actual substance to say later, I engaged with them politely.
Let's take a moment to really examine the facts:
Nintendo has the Switch. Sega made Sonic 06 for multiple consoles.
do the math.
Nintendo has the Switch. Sega made Sonic 06 for multiple consoles.
do the math.
This could have been an interesting thread if the question was which one had the better library.
It was the same critique of this being an obvious-answer question. There is an interesting parallel between these two systems (and I would argue the vita as well) but the title chosen and focus of the OP feels like an attention grab more than one to promote discussion. Not sure if "attention grab" is even the right word here, but I wouldn't quite call it editorialized or clickbait.
Agreed.
The Saturn and the Turbografx are two of the greatest consoles ever and performed like shit around most of the world.
OP
OP
Yes, and someone later actually articulated that point. I agreed with them, too! I think i can do better with my titles. With that said, a minimum expected standard of "people read OP" shouldn't be an unreasonable ask; the post I responded to also had no critique of any kind, but just the latest snide passive aggressive comment by the poster about my threads in a line of similar ones made over the last few days.
I would say the best games on the N64 are better than the best games on the Saturn (although it's closer than many believe), but the Saturn's overall library trounces the N64s in terms of depth, quality and genre diversity.
It's a similar story for the Wii U library vs Saturn library debate, although that one is much closer because, unlike the terminally overrated N64, the Wii U actually does have a decent library despite being a commercial failure.
Was the Mega CD a flop? It has large library of excellent games. I've never checked the sales figures though.
32x was obviously a flop that did massive damage to Sega, granted.
Nintendo could re-release the Atari Jaguar as their next console and still bounce back. They have been in a position for decades to easily weather the storms of a failed side project (Virtual Boy), failed add on (64DD), and failed console (Wii U).
I don't think Sega CD/Mega CD ever counted as a financial failure. It was never meant to sell 1:1 with the main console. It was more of a luxury item aimed at older gamers, and priced accordingly. It sold fine given those expectations.
OP
OP
Yeah, it's considered a flop in terms of prematurely terminated support and poor library, though sales were actually fairly impressive for an add on.
The Sega CD doesn't have a poor library. Once you look past the live action FMV crap, there's a bunch of good stuff.
How is this even a thread? Lol
I'm curious how many million sellers Saturn had as far as software. Even if Wii U did horrible numbers on the hardware side, the software side was insane for Nintendo.
I'm curious how many million sellers Saturn had as far as software. Even if Wii U did horrible numbers on the hardware side, the software side was insane for Nintendo.
OP
OP
Only one, I believe?
Eh... there are less than a dozen good games on the Sega CD, let's not front.
what are some of your favorite Sega CD games you have personally played?
a better thread would have been "which console that underperformed in sales had the best library"
The Saturn was Sega's most popular console ever in Japan. If anything, the Dreamcast is the more comparable "failure".
Further, the Wii U was dead and buried almost immediately upon discontinuation and only enjoys some holdouts for homebrew reasons that will inevitably be obsolete against the Switch. The Saturn still enjoys an extremely vibrant fan legacy.
Further, the Wii U was dead and buried almost immediately upon discontinuation and only enjoys some holdouts for homebrew reasons that will inevitably be obsolete against the Switch. The Saturn still enjoys an extremely vibrant fan legacy.
OP
OP
If the goal is to argue and count subjective opinions maybe. Saturn would stand a better chance at least.
32X, not Saturn, was the problem.
Wii U was basically Xbox 360 with a gamepad and that's fucking terrible, even though there are a few great games.
Wii U was basically Xbox 360 with a gamepad and that's fucking terrible, even though there are a few great games.
it definitely would lead to better discussion rather than basically looking at the same sales history that has been studied repeatedly.
one of the main points of a message board that exists mainly to discuss video games is to discuss "subjective opinions".
Fair enough, still probs better to just ignore all those one-liners without any meaningful critique as it distracts from the actual discussion you want to promote (eg my responses to your response are a distraction from the actual discussion).
Granted, I know you get your fair share of those types of responses that you sometimes ignore already. Occasionally from myself included lol
It's all about context. This question would be getting much different answers if, say, the Wii U had followed the Gamecube, and Nintendo didn't have their handheld branch as a buoy.
The difference between the Saturn and the Wii U is that the Wii U was released by a much more diversified and stable company. As the Wii U faltered, the 3DS picked up the slack. As the Gamecube faltered, the Gameboy Advance and early DS picked up the slack. And all the while, the surplus from past successes were managed properly.
As the Saturn faltered, there was nothing to pick up the slack.
It's likely that without the stellar company management during the DS/Wii days, as well as the success of the 3DS, Nintendo would not have been able to devote the kind of money to R&D that birthed the Switch. Not to mention the flood of games that was ready for it.
The difference between the Saturn and the Wii U is that the Wii U was released by a much more diversified and stable company. As the Wii U faltered, the 3DS picked up the slack. As the Gamecube faltered, the Gameboy Advance and early DS picked up the slack. And all the while, the surplus from past successes were managed properly.
As the Saturn faltered, there was nothing to pick up the slack.
It's likely that without the stellar company management during the DS/Wii days, as well as the success of the 3DS, Nintendo would not have been able to devote the kind of money to R&D that birthed the Switch. Not to mention the flood of games that was ready for it.
The 32x was a misstep, but it would've been forgiven had SEGA not botched the Saturn in design, launch, and support.
OP
OP
I think Sega of Japan had different sensibilities when it came to mascots. I think SOJ wanted to have a unique mascot for each console, as opposed to one recognizable mascot for the company, like Nintendo. Alex Kidd was the mascot for the Master System, Sonic was the mascot for Mega Drive/ Genesis and NiGHTS was meant to be the mascot for the Sega Saturn. Though Sega of America wanted Sonic to be the mascot for the entire company. Tom Kalinske really fought to get a Sonic game made for the Saturn with Sonic Extreme, but development was a nightmare for that game.
Sega of japan did bring back Sonic for the Dreamcast, but completely redesigned the character, so the Dreamcast era Sonic wouldn't be mistaken for the Genesis/ Mega Drive era Sonic.
The 32X really wasn't much of a problem, to be honest. The 32X launched in November of 1994 and actually sold quite well for Sega from the start. The problem really was the Sega Saturn. The most fatal mistake that Sega made with the Saturn was launch it earlier than expected at retail. Which caused a supply constraint issue at launch and caused many retailers to boycott Sega for not giving them enough units at launch. This also helped kill the 32X as well.
The Sega Saturn was originally planned to be released on September 1995 in North America, but at E3 1995 after Sony's "$299.99" announcement, Sega was in panic mode and decided to launch the Saturn five months earlier than expected in May of 1995. Resulting in shortages at launch. Sega were worried that the Saturn couldn't compete if the released the console closer to the PSX at launch.
you should try more games on the system. it has a really underrated library. i won't say it 's a great library, it definitely pales in comparison to the Turbo CD/PCE-CD (which is one of the greatest game libraries imho), but there are more than a handful of games worth playing on it.
Game magazines from the time were hyping NiGHT's as the new mascot for the Sega Saturn. The fact that it did come from Sonic Team, instead of a new Sonic game, also helped drive that notion home that NiGHT's was going to be the mascot for that console. But I guess Segata Sanshiro would be the true mascot for the system.
The Sega Saturn is what made me a Nintendo fan.
Imagine having every single Sonic the Hedgehog game on the Sega Genesis, and then super excited for the Sega Saturn to come out, because of course that brings with it the next incredible Sonic game.
We just got Sonic Jam (a collection of Sonic 1-3&K), Sonic 3D Blast (again, a game already on Sega Genesis), and Sonic R. Sonic R.
It didn't take long for me to explore Peach's castle after that.
(Wii U at least has 3D World)
Imagine having every single Sonic the Hedgehog game on the Sega Genesis, and then super excited for the Sega Saturn to come out, because of course that brings with it the next incredible Sonic game.
We just got Sonic Jam (a collection of Sonic 1-3&K), Sonic 3D Blast (again, a game already on Sega Genesis), and Sonic R. Sonic R.
It didn't take long for me to explore Peach's castle after that.
(Wii U at least has 3D World)
Other than the obvious replies already, the Wii U was a failed product to a great idea that turned into Switch.
If the Wii U hadn't failed, we might not have ever gotten the Switch. It's the same concept but just fully realized.
The Saturns successor was Dreamcast which was 100x easier to develop for but that's about it. It killed the company image (or what was left) where Nintendo only had one major screw up prior which was Virtual Boy. Even then, Virtual Boy was small time and isolated.
If the Wii U hadn't failed, we might not have ever gotten the Switch. It's the same concept but just fully realized.
The Saturns successor was Dreamcast which was 100x easier to develop for but that's about it. It killed the company image (or what was left) where Nintendo only had one major screw up prior which was Virtual Boy. Even then, Virtual Boy was small time and isolated.
To be fair Sonic R at least has a bangin' soundtrack.
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Each Wii U sold for a profit, the software was also profitable, but the strong yen and 3ds's failures, were the big problem for profits. Wii U was a relevancy failure more than anything.
The context is so different here.
Nintendo already had the lowered expectations of being a '2nd console' to the 'hard core' AAA consoles of the Xbox and Playstation. Nintendo also fortunately had their exceptionally successful portable business as a crutch to keep them afloat.
Sega was going head to head as peers with Nintendo and Sony and just completely bombed.
Nintendo already had the lowered expectations of being a '2nd console' to the 'hard core' AAA consoles of the Xbox and Playstation. Nintendo also fortunately had their exceptionally successful portable business as a crutch to keep them afloat.
Sega was going head to head as peers with Nintendo and Sony and just completely bombed.
Agreed. You can easily make an argument that the Saturn has a better game library than the Wii U. It's hard to make an argument that Sega handled the Saturn better than Nintendo handled the Wii U from a business perspective.