Will you remember Metal Gear Solid V as the most incomplete game ever released? (Retrospective)

#1

GamingBolt created a little throwback to MGS V. I like the video because the game went on a journey to oblivion.

So, over 3 years later, how do you think about The Phantom Pain? Started by the troubled development to split MGS V into two games, cutting the prologue out of the game to release it as a standalone title. Kojima was against this decision and it seems like this was the moment the relationship of Kojima and Konami went downhill. Kojima wanted the time and money for a project so big, maybe too big to even realise many years later.

Konami, on the other hand, wanted to make the big bucks with a popular IP where they spended a lot of budget for. Kagemasa Kozuki never liked Hideo Kojima. He didn't liked it how Kojima works, how long it took for him to finish a project and he didn't liked the delays coming from Kojima ever again. But Kozuki, as a businessman, knew how valuable Kojima was. Making him Konami Vice President back in the days. Konami played along with Kojimas escapades for many years. It was the Phantom Pain when they finally ended these escapades. Konami wanted to see results. We know, MGS V is just another victim of a decision made by Konami when they decided to show the AAA the finger. Kojima was the last expensive thing they had to got rid off. Releasing MGS V incomplete was the best way to finally get the money back they invested in the game and getting rid of the man with the expensive ideas.

But when did Konami pulled the plug when it comes to MGS V?

- The game prematurely ends when Otacons Dad leaves Mother Base
- Improvised epilogue for the big reveal of the game which is actually just the same section a little extended like the one you played at the beginning of the game
- Improvised ending for the storyline of Quiet. Not half as bad as the epilogue was
- Mission 51 which ended chapter 2 was cut out
- Chapter 3 was never realised. Remnants of the existence of Chapter 3 -Peace- exist in the Game Data.


We still don't know how much Konamis decision to pull the plug affected the overall development. Many storylines and Cutscenes where turned into audio files. Revealing moments which you can only enjoy when you find those cassettes.

Many missions are feeling like Copy & Paste. While almost perfect gameplay wise, the whole open world feels empty like wastelands. Even with the enviroments presented in the game, much more was possible.

The moment Konami pulled the plug, fine tuning and polishing wasn't possible anymore. The title song "Sins of the Fathers" was wasted in the most stupid moments in the game. The overall direction of the story segments feeling rushed and half assed at most times.

The game, although, do feature brillant moments. Brillant moments hidden away in side missions like the one with Paz. I guess many gamer who played the game never even experienced it.

So, yeah, this basically is the Metal Gear Solid V Kojima and Konami delivered to us. Even over 3 years later, it's still hard for me to accept that this is really was the big end for the franchise as we know it. What about you? Is MGS V still a topic for you?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,078
#2
I'm lucky in that I really enjoyed the core gameplay loop of MGSV quite a bit. I'm incredibly disappointed in how the story turned out, but beyond that, my memories of the game are almost entirely positive. Very few games exemplify the joy of play in the way MGSV did.

I just wish Konami and Kojima hadn't had their little civil war - that gameplay on top of an actually competent story would've been one of the best games ever made.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,934
#3
It's missing its second half, but the gameplay is pretty complete and it's not like a complete story would've been great anyways based on "she breaths through her skin" levels of creativity shown previously.

Imagine there are worse games out there rushed out before even half of the planned game was completed.
 

violent

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,678
#4
Most incomplete game ever? Totally. Now let me get back to restarting Fallout 76 as it just crashed again.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,482
#5
Super Mario Sunshine

Matthewmatosis put it pretty well when he said it’s the most polished half finished game ever

They clearly ran out of time and padded the crap out of it just so the star count could reach 120
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,151
#6
I will remember it as the biggest disappointment in gaming history. It was really legendary in that regard. I vividly remember beating the game and I couldn't believe how shitty it was. My brother and a good friend were still playing and liking the game and they very really hyped about Act 2 after that awesome "trailer" in between the acts. I had a hard struggle to not spoil it for them. I couldn't wait that they finished it and both ended just as disappointed as I did. It truly is the Phantom Pain. What a shitshow.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,142
#9
I’ll remember it as the most well designed game ever made from a gameplay and design perspective. A once in a lifetime type of game.

I’m at 250+ hours and still playing

TBH, I even enjoyed the story more than MGS4. The themes were great and I enjoyed the tapes
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,318
#11
We still don't know how much Konamis decision to pull the plug affected the overall development. Many storylines and Cutscenes where turned into audio files. Revealing moments which you can only enjoy when you find those cassettes.
does OP not know that this was more or less taken from Peace Walker?
 
OP
OP
Extreme Kiwami
Nov 2, 2017
639
NRW, Germany
#12
I also had 60 hours of fun. The cryptic design was actually a part of the game I really liked. But I also have to admit, this was neither Big Boss or Snake in the game. On the other hand..... it really wasn't Big Boss nor Snake :D But you know what I mean. It was the character itself. Kojima turned a legendary character into a Zombie. I even liked Kiefer Southerlands performance, it was not his fault that I will remember the presented character in such a..... bad way.

During my playthrough, I really applauded every time the story showed up. From a perspective of the gameplay, there aren't many flaws, maybe less than a handfull. But what happened to the story? The potential was unlimited. How is it possible to mess up in such a big way?
 
Oct 25, 2017
197
CA, USA
#13
Hell no, I’ll remember it as the definitive gameplay of any stealth game I’ve played, with a pretty cool meta/world based story.

If I was expecting mgs4 levels of story insanity then maybe, but I simply played it for what it was and love ballooning my boiz out for like 80 hours.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,400
#14
How could you say it's incomplete when you can extract those prisoners from the same three Afghan bases connected by narrow canyon hallways so many times. You might even find some medicinal plants or have to neutralize that armored vehicle unit again.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,491
#15
Let me just fire up my hyperbole translator.

Wait it's just warming up.

Okay here we go. Yes I consider mgs5 a somewhat incomplete game.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,708
Taiwan
#18
It's about 100% complete as far as gameplay system and polishing goes.

Story wise I don't see how it's less complete than something like Deus Ex: Mankind Divided which is about 60% of a story or The Order 1886 which is barely even a story at all.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,078
#20
How could you say it's incomplete when you can extract those prisoners from the same three Afghan bases connected by narrow canyon hallways so many times. You might even find some medicinal plants or have to neutralize that armored vehicle unit again.
How dare you shit on Peace Walker like that?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
#22
Clearly, they have not played Dark Void. What was there was fun, but in terms of story it basically had an Act I, and then a couple of random chapters from Act II and III, before finishing abruptly after defeating an end boss you only find out about during the opening narration for that final mission.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,500
Massachusetts
#24
I’ll remember it fondly (about to replay it actually) as Kojima once again innovating on the game design front but throwing out most of the story, which to be fair shit the bed in the last entry and it’s obvious he had given up caring about the stories for years.

Episode 51 should have been included though. And I am in the camp that believes Peace wasn’t some missing third grand chapter but was just the intro to the all nukes disarmed event that was programmed into the game but will never happen legit. Though I guess something set it off recently which is what resparked my curiosity enough to go back to it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,052
#26
Probably not no, but it’s the one ‘incomplete’ game that really hurt the most
Yup.

I love the series, but yes, MGSV, despite it's glorious gameplay, will overall remain as disappointing in my book.

kojima had plenty of time, I'm sure konami also did their fair share, but they're both equally to blame for this mess.
 
Dec 26, 2018
314
#27
Xenogears keeping that award since the 90's.
You have my vote!

https://kotaku.com/the-real-story-behind-xenogears-unfinished-disc-2-1796151112

“Back then, we had the direction of, ‘All projects take two years and that’s when we need to get it done.’ So on top of developing the game, we had to nurture and teach and grow these younger employees. Things like 3D were extremely new, which led to some delays in the schedule. It just wasn’t possible to get everything done.”

...

So they turned disc 2 of Xenogears into the montage that shipped with today’s game. Instead of playing through events like the world’s mutation and the search for Fei, you just have to watch them. And it was Takahashi’s decision—so he could finish the story he wanted to tell rather than cutting it off after the first half.
Although I guess you could say it was complete since the story was fully told.

Too bad they just didn't make the second disk's montage into an actual game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,702
#28
I wouldn't say it's the most incomplete game out there, but it's certainly one of the most dramatically incomplete ones. That said, I do think Kojima is more at fault for the game's state than people generally want to admit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
49
Canada
#29
It's almost like it leaves you aching for something that's no longer there, something that was already gone long ago. Some kind of... ghost hurt.

I'm only half joking; I honestly feel that, within the constraints of the development difficulties, the ending was intentional (even if not necessarily planned from the start). Kojima was "done" with MGS a long time ago, and his games can be read as lamenting about that from MGS3/4 and onward; it's an interpretation I'm a fan of and I think it adds a very interesting perspective to the entirety of the MGS series.

Frankly, I'm glad MGS is over and Kojima can finally move on to do whatever the hell he wants. I'm excited to see him unshackled. In that context, MGSV's ending is fine by me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,094
Manchester, England
#31
I’m of the opinion that Konami and Kojima fell out because Konami expected the game to be ready for the planned release date and blew their shit when Kojima probably told them he needed another 6-12 months.

They probably said it was coming out on that date whether it was ready or not and they then both decided to part ways.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,987
The Research Triangle
#33
I will remember it as the biggest disappointment in gaming history. It was really legendary in that regard. I vividly remember beating the game and I couldn't believe how shitty it was. My brother and a good friend were still playing and liking the game and they very really hyped about Act 2 after that awesome "trailer" in between the acts. I had a hard struggle to not spoil it for them. I couldn't wait that they finished it and both ended just as disappointed as I did. It truly is the Phantom Pain. What a shitshow.
Pretty similar to how I feel. What a mess.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,879
#35
Like, a quarter of the characters in Soul Calibur V are copycat fighters. There are early access games left in permanent limbo. Extreme Paintbrawl doesn't even have opponent AI or sprites for every character direction. MGSV has cut content, but to consider it an incomplete, and going even further as "most incomplete" would be insanity.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
#36
If I could go back in time and give myself the heads up and tell me to just mainline it with no side stuff I'd have a much better opinion of the game than I do.

But I will always be hard on this game, for what could have been.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,524
#38
Hyperbolic much? It will be remembered as the shit storm that was the development cycle, but "most incomplete game ever" give me a break. Its still an amazing game, not even close to the most incomplete games ever. Its probably one of the best playing games ever, yes there were problems with the narrative, but its not to gross levels
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,783
Québec City
#39
You have my vote!

https://kotaku.com/the-real-story-behind-xenogears-unfinished-disc-2-1796151112



Although I guess you could say it was complete since the story was fully told.

Too bad they just didn't make the second disk's montage into an actual game.
Yeah I know the story behind it, I just did the game during the holidays, too.

I love the game still, but holy shit it's not perfect. Disc II is such a sudden change in storytelling, hours of content cut into 5 minutes of text at multiple instances...I knew about it but still didn't expect it to be crippled so much.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,594
#40
No lol

It’s mainly missing an epilogue, there was a complete story told when skull face died actually. No matter if you think it’s good or bad. Everything after 31 felt extra to me
 
Oct 27, 2017
114
#43
Facts. At least I got about 300 hours out of MGS.

Not sure if this video added anything to stuff that was discussed when most of us beat the game. I'm just going to remember the game for the fun I had. It's unfortunate that Konami and Kojima had different ideas for the game. I can't really blame either party or the game itself.
 
OP
OP
Extreme Kiwami
Nov 2, 2017
639
NRW, Germany
#44
Kojima was "done" with MGS a long time ago, and his games can be read as lamenting about that from MGS3/4 and onward; it's an interpretation I'm a fan of and I think it adds a very interesting perspective to the entirety of the MGS series.
It's a legit theory. But on the other hand, a perfectionist like Kojima would want to deliver the best product possible. He already finished the story of Solid Snake. Not it was the last curtain to the story of Big Boss. Kojima always said he was done with new Metal Gear Games like Hayao Miyazaki was always done with Anime. Yes, sometime it will be over. But even Kojima knew there were some gaps in the story. He is too much of a perfectionist to just deliver a half assed story.
It's like with Sergio Leone, also a perfectioniost. The decision by the american studio to abuse his fantastiv movie "Once Upon a Time in America" and made a weird mess out of it was his death sentence. He was a sick man, but this really hit him so hard, he never recovered from the negative press this version of the movie received.

Maybe I should edit the headline for the thread a little. MGS V is most likely not the most unfinished game released, but something different. Since I don't have the right words for it, I keep the old title.
 

Raging Spaniard

Artist at EA Star Wars
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,178
#46
Sorry, cant get past the hyperbole ... especially being in the industry and knowing just how much shit is cut out of -every- game.

MGSV was a bit incomplete, sure, but it was still a very well put together package.
 
#48
From the games I have played it "feels" like the most incomplete AAA game I have ever played. Probably not the most, though. Like all throughout my playthrough I couldn't get passed the feeling that there is some really important stuff missing here.