Will you remember Metal Gear Solid V as the most incomplete game ever released? (Retrospective)

Enduin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,565
New York
Yeah. From both a story and in-game content perspective it was wildly incomplete. The map reuse was Dragon Age 2 levels of recycling. Revisiting the same base over and over again really undermined what actual plot stuff was there and going on.

The reason it sparks so much controversy is because the core gameplay is so excellent and really unparalleled. It's a joy to play the game and it looks so beautiful, but it really is like 1/3 of a game. Especially with what people had come to expect from a Kojima/MGS game.
 

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,486
No that would be MGS4, which had development issues written all over it but people conveniently forget about it since it "hit them in the feels" with a crap Disney style ending, which seems like it came from Fan Fiction.com.

Aside from mission 51 and Ground Zeroes being split into it's own entry i was pretty satisfied with the content side of things of TPP.

Like i can think plenty of more unfinished games that came out this gen even.
 

Tofer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,084
That's wrong on so many levels. It's the year Witcher 3, Bloodborne and Xenoblade Chronices X released! :-(
It moved above Bloodborne for my GOTG this year after S ranking all missions. I honestly don’t think we will get another game with such masterclass gameplay for another decade or two.
 

JPLC

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
78
Canada
He is too much of a perfectionist to just deliver a half assed story.
I would argue that Kojima is perfectly fine with leaving things unsaid. Remember, he wanted to end the series with MGS2, hanging mysteries and all; a big part of the theme of that game is not getting caught up in fictions, but instead facing reality and moving forward. He never wanted to answer MGS2's "questions", but he was forced back into MGS time and again.

Just like Solid Snake, Big Boss's story ended a long time ago.
I don't think the fact that you're not actually playing as Big Boss in MGSV is an accident. By the time Phantom Pain came around, Big Boss wasn't even there anymore; all that remained was a phantom.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 30151

User requested account closure
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Sorry, cant get past the hyperbole ... especially being in the industry and knowing just how much shit is cut out of -every- game.
Wouldn't go so far to call it hyperbole. For you, maybe. But that's your opinion. As an example, I don't want to watch a movie which ends halfway through it's actual story (of course it isn't something like Avengers Infinity War or a trilogy like Lord of the Rings or Star Wars). When you talk, it sounds like they cut out a weapon or a flower you can collect as a material. We know for sure that at least the real ending of Chapter 2 was cut out and is only available as a half finished cutscene.

For the people, who are searching for pure gameplay, I go d'accord that it is not big of a deal what was cut out. But the story of Metal Gear is the main reason I played the series for almost 20 years now. That's now hyperbole, it's simply a fan who wished for a complete experience. I'm not going so far calling the half assed ending with Skullface satisfying. He was great in Ground Zeroes but the most disappointing MGS Antagonist in The Phantom Pain. It's not even worthwhile to talk about Skullface because he was so damn unimportant.


JPLC

Good point there. Yes, MGS was the best thing what could jappen to Kojima but also the worst because it was so popular. Ideas he had for new IP's he had to implement in MGS. Currently, Death Stranding is sending me mixed vibes because haven't seen any real gameplay in almost 4 years is some kind of weird. For Kojima, I wish him the best of luck with this new IP. I also wish it for myself because I want to play it. But there are doubts.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,553
That would be FFXV which was almost an early access game on release

FFXIV too (somewhat)
 

Woopa

Member
Apr 14, 2018
7
Sweden
I think of MGSV at least once a week.

My first MGS ever was Snake Eater so the Big Boss games are the ones i like the most.
 

lowlifelenny

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,402
It feels incomplete in the best way- there's clearly stuff missing, but I couldn't ask for more, and I had my fill and then some of fantastic varied espionage thrills and adventure during my 200+ hours with the game.

The absence of content absolutely does not harm the experience, or make me wish things could have been different. It's not Wind Waker.
 

evilromero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,132
I don't think it's incomplete at all. And if it is then I never noticed. Over 200 hours in single player and it slays ever other game released this gen.
 
OP
OP

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User requested account closure
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Nov 2, 2017
674
The absence of content absolutely does not harm the experience, or make me wish things could have been different.
Especially this makes it so bittersweet. We all know there is much content to experience. But there was something I've waited till the end. I've waited and thought "When does the story finally begin?". I asked myself the same question when Otacons Dad was gone and the game was over. I hadn't even realised it. This is it. There was still stuff like the weird epilogue and Quiet's mission, but my question when the story of this game starts to kick off was kept unanswered.

Like I wrote before, there were many great moments in the story, but these were pretty rare moments.
 

FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,794
I thought it had a lot of content and was pretty feature rich at launch, so no. There have been plenty of games in recent memory that released with far, far less content and/or cohesion.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,948
New York City
I loved the game and I'm not even an MGS fan. I actually bought the game on a whim the day before it was released because I just built my current PC and wanted a modern game for it. Its length was very satisfactory to me, even if it was missing a chunk of it, I honestly wouldn't have noticed.

There are plenty other "unfinished" games that felt more so than MGS5, like Wind Waker ("you're just... gonna hand me the third Special Stone? Not even gonna visit a town or play a level like the other two?") or Mario Sunshine.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,850
Sorry, cant get past the hyperbole ... especially being in the industry and knowing just how much shit is cut out of -every- game.

MGSV was a bit incomplete, sure, but it was still a very well put together package.
A bit incomplete? :D
Sorry, but there is no hyperbole saying MGS5 is a shitshow. As a long time MGS-fan you are expecting the following things from a MGS game:
  • Great/crazy story
  • Great/crazy characters
  • Great/crazy boss fights
  • Great/crazy cutscenes
  • Great/crazy finale
  • Great pacing
  • Great level-design
MGS5 had almost nothing of all this. There were some bright spots in between an open-world mess that dragged over 50 hours(!). Almost as long as MGS 1-4 combined. It doesn't help that MGS5 runs at 60FPS and "controlls so well".
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,916
A bit incomplete? :D
Sorry, but there is no hyperbole saying MGS5 is a shitshow. As a long time MGS-fan you are expecting the following things from a MGS game:
  • Great/crazy story
  • Great/crazy characters
  • Great/crazy boss fights
  • Great/crazy cutscenes
  • Great/crazy finale
  • Great pacing
  • Great level-design
MGS5 had almost nothing of all this. There were some bright spots in between an open-world mess that dragged over 50 hours(!). Almost as long as MGS 1-4 combined. It doesn't help that MGS5 runs at 60FPS and "controlls so well".
it not being what you want out of an MGS game doesn’t mean the game was incomplete though.

It’s a different type of game than the previous ones, series went through almost a complete genre shift to open world.
 

Raging Spaniard

Artist at EA Star Wars
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,943
A bit incomplete? :D
Sorry, but there is no hyperbole saying MGS5 is a shitshow. As a long time MGS-fan you are expecting the following things from a MGS game:
  • Great/crazy story
  • Great/crazy characters
  • Great/crazy boss fights
  • Great/crazy cutscenes
  • Great/crazy finale
  • Great pacing
  • Great level-design
MGS5 had almost nothing of all this. There were some bright spots in between an open-world mess that dragged over 50 hours(!). Almost as long as MGS 1-4 combined.
Thats not incomplete lol thats just YOU not liking what the game was. Kojima was yelled at for years to tone down the cutscenes and the wacky shit, he finally did and MGSV is what you get.
 

BadWolf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,228
Heck no.

The only incomplete portion is Episode 51 which was supposed to be post launch DLC but got cancelled due to the Kojima/Konami fallout.

Even then KojiPro put together a summary video of Ep51 so we know what would have happened.

So even if the DLC got canned we still have a complete picture of the story.

Other than that the story is very much complete. It's not spoon fed via super long cutscenes like in previous entries but rather has to be pieced together via cutscenes, tapes, the world and even songs. Love it.
 

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,486
That video makes some weird observations.

MGSV was very deliberately based off of how Peace Walker was structured and played. Which also had you revisiting areas and building up Mother Base and had about 80/20% gameplay to cutscene ration, it even had you listen to cassette tapes instead of codec calls. So the notion that all previous Metal Gears focused on long cutscenes and story and not gameplay is false. Considering the video does not show even a second of PW leads me to believe that he did not play it.

The game has about as much story as your average MGS, it's just paced differently to fit the open world format and aside from the Liquid side plot which is one mission that did not get completed everything else in the game is wrapped up form a story perspective.

"Chapter 3" is in the game, it's what happens after you disarm the nukes in FOB, just because the concept art was cut or a single image that was found in the games data files in this case does not mean that hypothetically 20-30 missions were cut from the game as is often the conclusion that people like to jump to.

MGSV is far from the most unfinished game. Heck it has the most content out of any game in the franchise.
 

Big G

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,728
The story is incomplete, but the game as a whole doesn't feel that way. It doesn't feel like large swaths of the game are missing. It's missing an ending - a true final mission - and that's what makes it stand out as such a bummer.

But I still put over 200 hours into it, and most of my time spent was a blast. I don't feel like the missing content compromised MGSV to the point where it's no longer a great game.

There are better examples of games that feel that way. Zelda: Wind Waker. Final Fantasy XV. Among smaller/indie games, stuff like Obduction and Rime were clearly gutted due to time and/or budget constraints.

It moved above Bloodborne for my GOTG this year after S ranking all missions. I honestly don’t think we will get another game with such masterclass gameplay for another decade or two.
It was my #2 that year behind Bloodborne - also my GOTG - and honestly the unfinished story is probably the main reason it wasn't #1. MGSV is that good.

And I had the same experience as you. I loved the game, finished the story and was left feeling a bit empty, and after S-ranking all the missions and getting the platinum I saw the game in an entirely new light. When you go for the S-ranks, you see so much of the game's mission design brilliance that can go unnoticed otherwise.
 

FarbrorBaku

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,232
The hyperbole is strong in this one, it lacks a proper ending and some story beats but other than that it is a very polished and brilliant game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,352
canada
kojima was incompetent in managing time and money from what little we know. This was compounded by Konamis bullshit. This all lead to this poor game.

Character movement/control, AI, graphics, sound design, are basically the only things Id say are exceptional.

Level design, story, etc ranged from meh to horrid
 

Bjones

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,383
I removed that it clears seems thrown together about halfway through. You go from the cool “moments” to a bunch of fetch quest type missions.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,544
I continue to think a lot of the hyperbole surrounding Phantaom Pain comes from people who never played the PSP games, which Phantom Pain is a sequel to. They were expecting a sequel to MGS3, and Peace Walker already was the sequel to MGS3, and determined the new direction Kojima wanted to take the franchise in.

The game has an ending, it just botches its second one. The final boss happens at the 75% mark.

It's not Driv3r.
And Peace Walker also did this same thing. The game had a traditional final boss fight after which the credits rolled... and then you got to play a weird, elongated epilogue chapter. I could totally see that "Chapter 3" stuff as being simply left on the cutting room floor, which I understand is common in video game development. Maybe Kojima wanted to do more in Chapter 2, but I think "most incomplete game ever" is an overstatement.
 

Force_XXI

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,710
I really cant think of what else they could shove in to make it complete. A couple "this is why this happened" tapes or cutscenes? The story we got is pretty stupid anyway. Gameplay is great tho got about 130 hrs now
 

MDSVeritas

Gameplay Programmer, Sony Santa Monica
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
332
First and foremost I'll remember it as my favorite of the mainline MGS games and the best stealth gameplay I've experienced (at least as of now). But I'll certainly always be a bit wistful of the stuff we never got.
 

Arttemis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,703
I always suspected they was going to be opposing AI factions in the game, pitting the mercenaries found throughout the game against rebels (that were clearly and explicitly mentioned during a couple missions in Afghanistan).

I hope Death Stranding is able to replicate the sublime controls, though.
 

Don Fluffles

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,174
If by Incomplete game you mean "Incomplete game that isn't shit", I agree with this thread title.

There's a ton of totally incomplete games that suck and nobody wants to remember.
 

GlitchyDegree

The Fallen
Dec 4, 2017
559
To, it's one of my favorite games this decade & I still play it regularly. I will remember all the hours I put into it though.
 
Jun 4, 2018
999
Not most incomplete... Most frustratingly incomplete, I'd say. A third map, new gameplay gimmicks, closure to Eli's story (one of the very few plotlines created within the game), in addition to a final showdown with Sahelanthropus, seemingly the most coherent stretch of the narrative with Venom's condition and his relationship with the young Liquid - don't even get me started on Battle Gear, which was set to be playable, providing a whole new context for the game world, turning it from largely uninteresting and unnecessary to explore into a world that the player would have been allowed to run roughshod over.
 

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,486
Not most incomplete... Most frustratingly incomplete, I'd say. A third map, new gameplay gimmicks, closure to Eli's story (one of the very few plotlines created within the game), in addition to a final showdown with Sahelanthropus, seemingly the most coherent stretch of the narrative with Venom's condition and his relationship with the young Liquid - don't even get me started on Battle Gear, which was set to be playable, providing a whole new context for the game world, turning it from largely uninteresting and unnecessary to explore into a world that the player would have been allowed to run roughshod over.
That was not cut because the team ran out of time or because the game was "unfinished" they cut it because it disrupted the balance of the game. Seriously that thing was too OP and they probobaly couldn't figure out how to make use of the thing. Like everything it could potentially do was already filled with D Walker, D dog and Quite as well as other vehicles that you could use on the field.
 

Cathcart

Member
Oct 29, 2017
825
I’m so sick of the “incomplete” nonsense. What that game offers is still so much more than almost anything else I’ve played in 35+ years of gaming.

MGS4 ends with a bloated 90 minute cutscene of unnecessary explanation for everything that happened in the previous games including which pant leg Snake puts on first and how many times the Colonel gets up to pee at night. If people really wanted more of that, well, I guess I’m glad those people weren’t in charge of msgv.

There was nothing left to say, so Kojima had more time to focus on incredible gameplay and less on incoherent rambling. It’s the best game he’s ever made. I’ve put almost 300 hours into that game and I still fire it up occasionally to try and a rank a mission or just mess around in that world. If this game isn’t complete then none of them are.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,021
You guys are really throwing words out there with absolutely no understanding of what it could mean
 

K Samedi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,296
Meh whatever, its one of the best games ever made. I’d put this together with breath of the wild and Baldirs Gate 2 in my top 3 best games ever. There’s plenty of story and content in there and the moment to moment gameplay is amazing. Konami was right in thinking the game didnt have to be bigger then it was. The dissapointing story was mostly because of bad story structure. There were a lot of pointless cutscenes and pointless casette tapes. Skullface was an interesting character but they chose to focus on less interesting ones.
 

ASaiyan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,228
Final Fantasy XV is the first thing that comes to mind when I hear "incomplete game".

Tbf tho, I still haven't played this game. But I believe I have it from PS+ or something.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,850
it not being what you want out of an MGS game doesn’t mean the game was incomplete though.

It’s a different type of game than the previous ones, series went through almost a complete genre shift to open world.
Yeah, shift to a shitty, lifeless open world devoid of meaningful content, stuffed with recyled missions. It was a bad decission and a shift to something way worse. A failed game-design reboot. The fun thing is Peace Walker did it first and did so many things way, way better than MGS5. Peace Walker formular crossed with the technology of MGS5 could have been the sweet spot.
 
Nov 23, 2017
3,355
Sorry, cant get past the hyperbole ... especially being in the industry and knowing just how much shit is cut out of -every- game.

MGSV was a bit incomplete, sure, but it was still a very well put together package.
youtubers need clicks man. I personally am no longer clicking stuff with titles or thumbnails like this.

But you see it in this thread too, saying it’s the most disappointing game ever is patently absurd. Some games don’t even work.
 
Nov 23, 2017
3,355
A bit incomplete? :D
Sorry, but there is no hyperbole saying MGS5 is a shitshow. As a long time MGS-fan you are expecting the following things from a MGS game:
  • Great/crazy story
  • Great/crazy characters
  • Great/crazy boss fights
  • Great/crazy cutscenes
  • Great/crazy finale
  • Great pacing
  • Great level-design
MGS5 had almost nothing of all this. There were some bright spots in between an open-world mess that dragged over 50 hours(!). Almost as long as MGS 1-4 combined. It doesn't help that MGS5 runs at 60FPS and "controlls so well".
We get it, you don’t like Thing.
 
May 26, 2018
4,316
God, no. It doesn't even fall under "most incomplete game ever released" candidacy. It's by far the most incomplete Kojima game ever. By his standards it's like an empty mall at noon.

But has anyone here ever played truly incomplete games released to market? Shit where AI doesn't even exist and you can go through walls? MGSV is Witcher 3 by that metric.