Wimbledon 2019 - OT - London Goes Nuts for Coco

Speevy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,011
Maybe Djokovic gave him some devilish looks during those points, like "You know you're going to mess this up. Just give it up already. You're TOO OLD."

Yes, I'm assuming Novak Djokovic is an empath.
 

Lionheart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
569
Nadal is really pissing me off. He had a few chances the last few years to cement GOAT status (with Joker on his heels) but he has blown it against Federer a couple times now. How are you better against Prime federer than Old Federererer.

Imo prime Nadal is still the best to watch and no one could beat him.
 

sam777

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,046
Nadal is really pissing me off. He had a few chances the last few years to cement GOAT status (with Joker on his heels) but he has blown it against Federer a couple times now. How are you better against Prime federer than Old Federererer.

Imo prime Nadal is still the best to watch and no one could beat him.
Relax he will win USO. The slower HC at the USO will suit him much better.
Also players like Thiem and Tsitsipas will be a threat.
 
OP
OP
Mcfrank

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,134
Man I am so gutted. 2 CHAMPIONSHIP POINTS.

Can't imagine how Fed is feeling. His form was good for the majority of the match though. Hope he does well at the US Open.
Yeah that’s the thing. He out played Djoker the whole match except the tie breaks. All stats point to Federer being the better player. It was a mental loss which makes it much tougher to deal with.
 

Hours Left

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,991
I’m so happy for Novak! He played incredibly.

The audience was filled with bitter shits. People who boo players for simply playing should be ejected.
 

MushroomSamba

Member
Oct 26, 2017
252
I stopped following tennis for a bit around '16. Pretty amazing to still see those three at the top. Really sad to find out Murray retired though...his shotmaking was bliss to watch when he was firing on all cylinders. It's always a bummer to see athletes' careers ended in their primes due to injury.

Also, what the hell happened to Djokovic in 2017?
 

zero_suit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,647
I stopped following tennis for a bit around '16. Pretty amazing to still see those three at the top. Really sad to find out Murray retired though...his shotmaking was bliss to watch when he was firing on all cylinders. It's always a bummer to see athletes' careers ended in their primes due to injury.

Also, what the hell happened to Djokovic in 2017?
He played mixed doubles with Serena this Wimbledon, and he's trying to return to singles late this year or next year.
 

Ron Paul

It's Happening
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,434
Texas
If the next 5 slams go like this:
USO 2019:Djokovic
AO 2020: Djokovic
FO 2020: Nadal
Wimb 2020: Djokovic
USO 2020: Djokovic



then the slam total count would look like this

1. Federer 20
1. Djokovic 20
3. Nadal 19
 

Boogs31

Member
Oct 28, 2017
723
Ohio
Federer was better than Djokovic in all statistical areas EXCEPT unforced errors. That turned out to be the difference. Those shanks.


I wouldn’t even say Djokovic was better with unforced errors. I factor winners and unforced errors together and the ratio is what matters (in the same way the NBA does assist to turnover ratio). Fed with 94 winners and 61 errors, basically a 3 to 2 ratio. Djokovic with 54 winners and 52 errors, pretty much 1 to 1.

Fed was better in every way, and the dumb tennis scoring system rewarded the worse player on the day.
 

gagewood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
754
Bummed for Fed after missing out on two championship points, but I can't imagine being disappointed when any of the Big 3 win. They're all great competitors and ambassadors. Still being able to watch them play at this level after all these years is awesome. It's going to be so weird when they're all retired.

I've always liked Djokovic's sense of humor and willingness to have a little bit of fun on the court. When all is said and done he may very well become the all-time leader in slams. With all due respect to Nadal, Djokovic could amass an overall body of work that surpasses that of Fed.

Fed played well today but Nole bested him when it mattered most in those tiebreaks. If Fed is still capable of playing for championships, he should keep going for them. Hell, I thought 2-3 years ago that he would be winding down by now. And yet, he still keeps on ticking.

The US Open will be fun. The Big 3 have won 55 out of the last 65 slams. Next gen needs to step up and stop the old geezers.
 

henhowc

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,394
Los Angeles, CA
I wouldn’t even say Djokovic was better with unforced errors. I factor winners and unforced errors together and the ratio is what matters (in the same way the NBA does assist to turnover ratio). Fed with 94 winners and 61 errors, basically a 3 to 2 ratio. Djokovic with 54 winners and 52 errors, pretty much 1 to 1.

Fed was better in every way, and the dumb tennis scoring system rewarded the worse player on the day.
As much as I am a Fed fanboy can’t blame the scoring system for not sealing the deal on match points. One well placed serve could have ended it. One area where Rafa and Djoker have him beat at this point in their careers. He’s more prone to beat himself and let players back into matches on silly mistakes than the other two. Prime example the challenge related brain farts at the end of the semi and also today.
 

massivekettle

Member
Aug 7, 2018
452
Better in every way except mentally.
Especially since he had to play against a hostile crowd of 15,000.

This match was eerily similar to their 2011 US Open semi-final when Djokovic came back from 2 sets down, trailing 5-3, 40-15 in the final set, and saved 2 match points, and went on to win the 5th set 7-5. Same hostile crowd (even more rowdy). But we also got some salty Peak Federer at the post-game PC.



Djokovic is the GOAT of mental strength/fortitude. Federer may be more naturally gifted, but he probably wish he had Djokovic's mental fortitude. It's also quite telling that Djokovic hasn't lost a Grand Slam final to Federer since his very first, US Open 2007...
 
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bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,057
Fed is always going to be my personal GOAT, but who else is in the conversation?

Clearly Nadal and Djokovic are in the conversation and points can be made for them. I would also put Rod Laver in the discussion as well. Is there anyone else who belongs in the discussion?

I personally feel Sampras is clearly a step below these guys and I can't think of anyone else who belongs. Some people might argue on talent McEnroe and Becker are up there, but they didn't sustain it nearly as long as the guys I put at the top.
 

Ron Paul

It's Happening
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,434
Texas
Fed is always going to be my personal GOAT, but who else is in the conversation?

Clearly Nadal and Djokovic are in the conversation and points can be made for them. I would also put Rod Laver in the discussion as well. Is there anyone else who belongs in the discussion?

I personally feel Sampras is clearly a step below these guys and I can't think of anyone else who belongs. Some people might argue on talent McEnroe and Becker are up there, but they didn't sustain it nearly as long as the guys I put at the top.
Sampras could have been been up there but he retired too early. His retirement took everyone by surprise. I think if he played a few more years he would have added a couple more slams but who knows.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,728
Here is my take.

Federer did not choke. Saying that diminishes his accomplishments and Djokovic's. In order to even get to championship point, Federer had to come back down 2-1 in sets and break Djokovic twice in the final set. And I'm sure we can find matches where Federer had trouble breaking an opponent but won the tiebreaks when it mattered most. In this case, it was Djokovic who turned up the intensity in the tiebreaks and won because of that.

You can also point to Federer's unforced errors but you could argue that when playing at his age against arguably the best defensive player of all time, Federer would want to end a point quickly, so he goes for it rather than rally and hope for a Djokovic mistake. I didn't watch the whole match but there were shots that would put away 99% of players yet Djokovic returned them.

Can't deny that it was disappointing as a Federer fan, though. To beat Nadal and Djokovic in a GS at 37 would've been one of his greatest achievements. Full credit to Djokovic: I don't think he was at his best but he won the points he needed to.

Also the crowd was trash but what else is new.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,057
Here is my take.

Federer did not choke. Saying that diminishes his accomplishments and Djokovic's. In order to even get to championship point, Federer had to come back down 2-1 in sets and break Djokovic twice in the final set. And I'm sure we can find matches where Federer had trouble breaking an opponent but won the tiebreaks when it mattered most. In this case, it was Djokovic who turned up the intensity in the tiebreaks and won because of that.

You can also point to Federer's unforced errors but you could argue that when playing at his age against arguably the best defensive player of all time, Federer would want to end a point quickly, so he goes for it rather than rally and hope for a Djokovic mistake. I didn't watch the whole match but there were shots that would put away 99% of players yet Djokovic returned them.

Can't deny that it was disappointing as a Federer fan, though. To beat Nadal and Djokovic in a GS at 37 would've been one of his greatest achievements. Full credit to Djokovic: I don't think he was at his best but he won the points he needed to.

Also the crowd was trash but what else is new.
I love Fed but that’s being pretty generous to him.

Joker was a rock mentally but even then 40-15 serving if you lose that you have to call that a choke. At least IMHO.

Just to be in that position is amazing but in that specific moment I don’t know what else to call it.

Sampras could have been been up there but he retired too early. His retirement took everyone by surprise. I think if he played a few more years he would have added a couple more slams but who knows.
Also he just doesn’t seem to be as good as these guys. For his generation he was heads and shoulders above everyone else but he never even came close to contending at the French.

I think what I would say about Sampras is he is not in the conversation for GOAT but he is one of the best serve and volleyers ever, a legend and for my money had the best serve of all time.
 

MIMIC

Member
Dec 18, 2017
2,868
I think in their own ways, both choked. Djokovic choked first after going up a break in the 5th and then meekly giving it right back. Fed choked by not being able to close out the match after having TWO MATCH POINTS (LOL!). Djokovic still had to make the passing shot, but Federer seemingly was rushing to finish him off.

Can't wait to see what the slam race looks like by the end of next year's U.S. Open ^_^
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,057
I think in their own ways, both choked. Djokovic choked first after going up a break in the 5th and then meekly giving it right back. Fed choked by not being able to close out the match after having TWO MATCH POINTS (LOL!). Djokovic still had to make the passing shot, but Federer seemingly was rushing to finish him off.

Can't wait to see what the slam race looks like by the end of next year's U.S. Open ^_^
Neither really had their game yesterday either.

So to the other posters point I guess you could say they sucked more than choked. Fed could barely hit his backhand in the last set and Novak’s serve seemed to desert him for large portions of the match as well. To Novak’s credit in the biggest moments of the match he was able to put it together better than Fed, who may have hit more good shots overall but when it mattered most he seemed to be less in control of his game.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,728
The definition of choke is subjective. I just don't equate that scenario to say, being up 5-0, 40-0 and losing the set.

I do agree that both did not look like their best, which is why the match was much closer than expected.
 

henhowc

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,394
Los Angeles, CA
Roger's response when asked to compare the match to 08 loss to Nadal...

“Epic ending. We didn’t have the night coming in or the rain delay like in 2008. The only similarity I see is I was the loser both times.”

 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
2,225
As a Federer fan that is up there with the most painful losses I’ve seen. So damn close. Massively important to GS race as well, a win here would almost secure the record for Fed. As is I think Nadal is very likely to hit 20 and Novak looks set to as well (he is better in more slams). Such a tight race.

I kinda wonder how tennis will look when they all retire. I could see interest dropping a bit but it’s hard to know.