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snapcracken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
619
win10_mr_headsets.jpg

What is Windows Mixed Reality?
Windows Mixed Reality is spun out of Microsoft's work on HoloLens. Formerly Windows Holographic, it is an attempt to create a platform for VR/AR Windows applications, and in the long term, an entirely different Windows platform, similar to the now-discontinued Windows RT. While the name is somewhat misleading, almost all commercially available Windows MR devices are VR headsets (with the exception of HoloLens, which is only available in limited quantities to developers).
Why should I care?
Originally priced around $400-500 to undercut the then-$600 Oculus Rift and $800 HTC Vive, MR was posed as a cheaper entry for VR, aimed primarily at business use cases. The original reveal of these headsets was in a keynote that focused on their ability to allow artists and office workers to view 3D models in three-dimensional space. However, as both the Rift and the Vive saw price cuts, this left these headsets unable to compete at price or quality at MSRP, and hence many of these headsets have gotten severe price cuts. You can find most of them at the $200 price point.
Okay, but how is this relevant to gaming/are these any good for VR games?
A few months after the initial wave of MR headsets, Microsoft put out beta support for SteamVR, and as of the Windows 10 April Update, that support has exited Steam Early Access and is no longer considered beta. Valve has also added Mixed Reality as a category on Steam, resulting in many games building in better support for these headsets. (See below for a SteamVR compatibility list).
Even if I wanted one, which should I get/what are the differences between headsets?
All of the headsets are based off the same core blueprint, with the exception of the Samsung HMD Odyssey. This means they all have a 105-degree FOV, and use a 2880 x 1440 90Hz LCD. None have any built-in headphones, but instead have a headphone jack on the headset itself, and unlike competing headsets, are able to flip up on a hinge similar to night-vision goggles (except not as cool). They all come with motion controllers, including the Samsung headset, and all of them use Inside-Out tracking based off of the technology HoloLens uses. See below for a detailed breakdown of each headset.
Inside-out tracking? That means it won't be as good as the Vive/Rift, right?
Well, yes and no. Because it's inside-out, this means no external sensors or cameras to place around the room, or necessary to take with you when moving the headset. However, unlike HoloLens's camera setup (which includes both traditional RGB video cameras as well as depth cameras), the Mixed Reality headsets only have one RGB camera on either side of the device. This means they rely on a well-lit environment, in addition to having blind spots directly behind and to the side of each headset. Impressions vary, but the general consensus is that outside of these blind spots and in a well lit room, the tracking is "good enough," or only slightly worse than outside-in tracking.
Why can't I just get a headset like the Oculus Go or Lenovo Mirage Solo instead?
While priced similarly to Mixed Reality and carrying similar inside-out tracking, both of those headsets are built off of mobile platforms, as opposed to full-fat PC VR like Mixed Reality. This means they are untethered and portable, but also that they won't be able to offer SteamVR or any other high graphical fidelity applications. They will be able to roughly match quality in video applications, but any other use case and the shortcomings will be noticeable. At the end of the day, however, it comes down to personal preference.
Headsets
Samsung HMD Odyssey
RE1FBct
  • MSRP: $499
  • Sale Price: $399
This headset is the cream of the crop. Sharing the same 110-degree FOV 2880 x 1600 AMOLED display as the Vive Pro, it's also said to have the best-built controllers as well, as they're more curved and hold-able than most of the other headsets. This is also the only headset to come with built-in headphones--ones that are AKG branded, to top. The major downsides here are the bulbous look to the headset and the price; unlike the other headsets, this one usually sticks to its MSRP, and when it occasionally drops price it only does so for a short time before going back up in price. It is also the only Mixed Reality headset without a hinge.
ASUS Windows Mixed Reality Headset
RE1QsWr

  • MSRP: $429​
  • Sale Price: $399​
One of the last WIndows Mixed Reality headsets to come out, it's also arguably the best looking, with a nice polygonal design to the body. However, this means it's also one of the priciest.
Lenovo Explorer
RE1DkM6
  • MSRP: $400
  • Sale Price: $300 with occasional drops to $200
Part of the initial wave of headsets, this one is commonly bundled with Lenovo computers for little or no increase in price. It seems to be one of the more popular Mixed Reality headsets out there.
HP Windows Mixed Reality Headset
RE1DvBX
  • MSRP: $450
  • Sale Price: ~$200
Another early headset, the HP headset is also often bundled with HP PCs.
Acer Mixed Reality Headset
RE1DxOu

  • MSRP: $400​
  • Sale Price: ~$200​
This was the first Mixed Reality headset released, and as a result one of the most documented. Apart from its fisher price look, this headset is allegedly poorly fitting, with the hinge designed in a way that it allows heavy light bleed. In addition, the controllers are apparently somewhat uncomfortable to hold for long periods of time.
Dell Visor
RE1DAvr

  • MSRP: $450​
  • Sale Price: ~$200​
One of the nicer looking headsets, the Dell Visor follows the HP and Lenovo designs in often being bundled with PCs. It's apparently one of the nicer headsets of the lower Mixed Reality tier (the upper tier being the HMD Odyssey).
3Glasses HMD Blubur S2
1513922340721.jpg
  • MSRP: ¥3998
  • Sale Price: N/A
This China-only headset is one of the newer ones to be announced. It seems to match most of the others in specs--2880 x 1400 screen, 105-degree FoV, hinge to allow the headset to flip up, etc.
Fujitsu Win MR
Fujitsu-FMV-LIFEBOOK-AH-MR-B3.jpg
  • MSRP: ~ 50,000 yen
  • Sale Price: N/A
This headset is Japan-only, to the point where zero marketing or PR work has been done outside of Japan even though Fujitsu sells products in the West (including their laptops, which are made by the same division that put out the VR headset). It seems to match all of the non-Odyssey headset specs.
A Quick Note About Controllers
Windows-Mixed-Reality-Motion-Controller.jpg
While all controllers follow the same layout, each controller is actually made by the company making the headset it comes with. So the controllers included with the Dell Visor are made by Dell, and so on. There are small deviations with each controller (with the Samsung headset having the biggest deviations). Overall, however, they all have the same functionality and general design.
SteamVR and Other Miscellaneous Notes
Compatibility with SteamVR
With recent work done at both Valve and Microsoft, Mixed Reality is recognized as a platform within Steam and the Mixed Reality support tool is now out of beta and early access. It can be found here.
However, when using the headset, you will boot into the Mixed Reality space by default, and the Mixed Reality home space does not have a shortcut to Steam VR or any Steam VR apps (you have to manually launch either Steam VR or a Steam VR game from the desktop). There is now a way to add access to the Steam VR home from within the Mixed Reality "Cliff House", using a third-party program.

As the Mixed Reality label in Steam is relatively new, there are many older VR apps and games that work just fine with these headsets, but are not labelled as such. A good reference, then, is the list compiled by /r/WindowsMR found here.
Lastly, anecdotal evidence seems to note that SteamVR seems to have performance overhead with Mixed Reality headsets, and as thus it may be preferrable to purchase versions of games natively compatible with Mixed Reality itself, usually found in the Windows Store.​
Compatibility with Oculus Rift
Up until recently, Windows Mixed Reality users could use Revive to play Rift-exclusive content on their headsets, but this was not ideal as both Revive and Steam VR added performance overhead to the headset. Now, however, the man behind Revive has put out a beta version built natively for Windows Mixed Reality called Remixed. It does not support the Samsung HMD Odyssey as of this post as that headset has its lenses oriented differently than other headsets. Work is being done to bring compatibility to that headset. Support has been added for the HMD Odyssey
Full body tracking with a Kinect
While I have not personally attempted it, there are resources on using a Kinect to not only add in leg tracking, but also sort out issues with blind spots with the Mixed Reality headsets. This, of course, adds outside-in tracking to the headset, which negates one of the main features of the platform.
Using lighthouses and Vive wands with a HMD Odyssey to make a cheaper Vive Pro
As noted above, the HMD Odyssey uses the same panel as the Vive Pro, but at roughly half the cost. As a result, users on reddit have been able to use the lighthouses and Vive wands with the HMD Odyssey and overlay both VR systems to make software merge them together. As a result, they have gotten the main benefit of the Vive Pro (higher resolution screen) without the biggest downside of the HMD Odyssey (less accurate tracking). This requires some work, however, and isn't for the faint of heart.
Final Notes
As an owner of a HMD Odyssey, I've found a lot of misinformation online about Mixed Reality in general, and wanted to share what I've seen online about these headsets and the current state of the platform. While I've gotten into internet arguments in the past over Mixed Reality, I want this thread to be focused more on new developments of these headsets and impressions people have of specific headsets, as opposed to vague generalities compiled together to back a specific pre-conceived opinion one may have of any of these headsets. Lastly, I will say that if one owns any of these headsets, or plans to buy one, update to the April update ASAP. I've personally seen performance in both Steam VR and native Mixed Reality apps increase drastically, as well as new features added to the experience.
 
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kubev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,533
California
I had no idea that each manufacturer also manufactured its own controllers. I assumed that they got them from Microsoft or something. Interesting thread, in either case.
 
Dec 18, 2017
1,374
Considering getting one of these as a backup, just in case something happens to my Rift. Of course, I should always wait until something actually happens to my Rift for such a thing.

But I kinda like sleeping in VR, and I'm too afraid of damaging my Rift to continue doing it.
There's hardly anything more immersive than waking up in VR.

Edit: By the way, thank you for the Kinect resource. I really want full body tracking.
Also, that cheaper alternative to a Vive Pro, using a Samsung Odyssey intrigues me. Thanks, I'll look into that.
I totally want whatever upgrade I can from what I have.
 
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severianb

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
957
A couple of fun facts: The original plan for Kinect 2.0 was to be a dual lighthouse setup that would specifically work with AR/VR. As seen above the TV in the 2010 leak:
msroadmap_2ndscreen_630px.jpg


Also, Kinect V3 is what is in the current Hololens. The next Hololens will include the Kinect V4 which was just released as Kinect for Azure. It's specs are literally twice that of Kinect 2.0 that came with the Xbox One:

project_kinect_azure_1280.0.jpg

https://www.polygon.com/2018/5/7/17327982/project-kinect-azure-ai-sensor-microsoft

I'm hoping for a version of this new super-Kinect we can plug into a USB port on the Xbox One.
I'm also hoping for a wireless Mixed Reality Headset for the Xbox One.
I hope both are released next month at E3.

I hope a lot.
 

Karak

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,088
I have the Vive, Rift, Samsung and the HP(I review and its been a series of purchases not like one giant one lol) and I have to say. Once I fiddled a bit with a couple things on the Samsung. I am beyond impressed. Huge visual difference.
Once I made the switch to a seperate bluetooth dongle and got it away from the computer my god it controls so well. Also got a VR pad which I have for every headset but for some reason I found the Samsung to be the most comfortable now. Love the price drops. Hope they keep coming.
 
Dec 18, 2017
1,374
I have the Vive, Rift, Samsung and the HP(I review and its been a series of purchases not like one giant one lol) and I have to say. Once I fiddled a bit with a couple things on the Samsung. I am beyond impressed. Huge visual difference.
Once I made the switch to a seperate bluetooth dongle and got it away from the computer my god it controls so well. Also got a VR pad which I have for every headset but for some reason I found the Samsung to be the most comfortable now. Love the price drops. Hope they keep coming.
Sounds like I definitely want to get a Samsung Odyssey and go the faux-Vive Pro method.

Especially since new graphics cards are coming right out that will be able to be handle it. And more affordably.
Unless there's a sudden spike in crypto mining. Raising GPU prices to even higher levels.
 

kubev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,533
California
A couple of fun facts: The original plan for Kinect 2.0 was to be a dual lighthouse setup that would specifically work with AR/VR. As seen above the TV in the 2010 leak:
msroadmap_2ndscreen_630px.jpg


Also, Kinect V3 is what is in the current Hololens. The next Hololens will include the Kinect V4 which was just released as Kinect for Azure. It's specs are literally twice that of Kinect 2.0 that came with the Xbox One:

project_kinect_azure_1280.0.jpg

https://www.polygon.com/2018/5/7/17327982/project-kinect-azure-ai-sensor-microsoft

I'm hoping for a version of this new super-Kinect we can plug into a USB port on the Xbox One.
I'm also hoping for a wireless Mixed Reality Headset for the Xbox One.
I hope both are released next month at E3.

I hope a lot.
Nice to see Kinect tech still in use. Honestly, I was confused as to why Microsoft would kill Kinect off, given how useful it could be with Mixed Reality. I suppose that it's there, after all.
 

Karak

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,088
Sounds like I definitely want to get a Samsung Odyssey and go the faux-Vive Pro method.

Especially since new graphics cards are coming right out that will be able to be handle it. And more affordably.
Unless there's a sudden spike in crypto mining. Raising GPU prices to even higher levels.
Ya you can use the controllers now with the lighthouses which I didn't know about that hack until last week. I use it normally though and am incredibly happy. WAY more than I was. It is strange how something can creep up on you and I wasn't aware, in this case, it was indeed resolution.
 

linhost

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49
Once I made the switch to a separate bluetooth dongle and got it away from the computer my god it controls so well.

HI, can you give a bit more context to what you mean here? How does using a bluetooth dongle instead of built in bluetooth increase your control experience?
I am curious about your comment. I also prefer the Samsung over the vive or rift (even over the vive pro tbh). I do find that the Vive (1.0 and 2.0) has the best tracking exp, but for portability WMR is the way to go. However....if I could make the tracker better for WMR it may be my go to home unit too!

Thanks in advance for any clarification you can provide!
 

linhost

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49
If you are a dev (or a tinker around with it in your spare time) the HP WMR headset also has a breakaway cable located close to the headset. This is great if you don't want your headset connected all the time but don't want to mess with the wires going into your pc. It also (like the Dell) allows you to "flip up" the visor so you don't need to totally remove the headset if you want to look at something on your monitor while in VR.
 
OP
OP
snapcracken

snapcracken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
619
how do these stack up against PSVR and the others?

They have a higher resolution but outside of the HMD Odyssey have LCD screens instead of OLED and I believe a lower FOV. The tracking will probably be similar--the PSVR will have more problems with your back facing the camera whereas the MR headsets will have more problems with dark rooms and moving the hand controllers to the blind spots on the sides and behind the headset.
 
OP
OP
snapcracken

snapcracken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
619
I added the 3Glasses headset, forgot about it last night and the list I was looking at didn't have it listed. Probably isn't relevant to anyone here, but still.
 

KillerAJD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
267
**Apologies for the novel!**

Got a Vive shortly after launch, and while I used it a bunch when I first got it, it's been sitting under my desk since about month three, other than when I feel up to pulling it out for some iRacing (which I really don't play unless I have VR now, it's THAT good in VR). For my setup, the Vive is kind of a pain in the ass, as I don't really have much desk space, and am pretty short on spots to plug in power. If you include my steering wheel, I've got that, plus the headset power, plus at least one base station to plug in. Then, since I don't want to/can't drill into the wall, I have to put the basestation near my desk, and if anything bumps into it, I lose tracking for a second or two, which happens pretty often when I'm wrestling my wheel around. It pretty much exists as a sitting VR headset only, as it's also a pain to set up the basestations in the living room.

Saw a refurbished HP headset for sale for around $160 on Amazon and took a chance on it. I figure best case, I splurged a little, and now have a headset that is easier to set up and use for VR simracing stuff, and worst case, I have a friend who LOVED my Vive, but didn't want to spend that much, so I could at least break even by selling it to him. Got it yesterday, and spent the day messing with it.

The initial setup was kind of a pain in the ass. Since it was a refurb unit, it didn't really come with any kind of instructions or setup procedures. I had the Mixed Reality Portal installed, and the first time I connected the headset, the app didn't recognize anything. I did a quick reboot, and then the app started to recognize the headset. I also didn't realize you needed some kind of bluetooth connection for the controllers. Luckily, I had a small and really cheap bluetooth adapter, so I plugged that in. In the app, the controllers were seen and connected, but they didn't seem to want to do anything past that point of the setup process. They didn't show up in the starting area, and turning them off and then back on didn't do anything. Another reboot didn't help either. For the time being then, I just used an xbox controller.

As far as the headset itself goes, even compared to the original head mounting straps on the Vive (I haven't used the new mount you can buy), it's a bit uncomfortable. The band is kind of too narrow for my head, so to keep it from moving, I have to cinch it down quite a bit, which causes some irritation. Then, I'm assuming it has a smaller "sweet spot" than on the Vive, because it's really hard to get a stable and clear image compared to the Vive. Since there doesn't seem to be any kind of IPD or focus adjustments, I just have to move the headset itself around a bit. But there's another issue in that the hinge mechanism doesn't seem strong enough to keep the headset in one spot, tight up against my face. After a few hours of messing with it, I finally got it in an OK spot, but even with the higher resolution screen, for me, the image quality seems worse than the Vive. I'll need to keep messing with it though. Also, the field of view seemed noticeably smaller than on the Vive. It was much nicer if I manually held the headset against my face (and the blurriness went away too), but as soon as I let go, both the FoV and blurriness got worse again.

On top of THAT, there are two dead pixels on the left eye screen, one in the top center (and noticeable in dark scenes), and the other near the top right corner and only noticeable if I press the headset to my face. Since it is a refurb, I'm not too upset, since I'm assuming that might actually be why somebody returned it anyways.

I eventually did get the controllers to pair. I ended up re-pairing them to the bluetooth dongle outside of the app manually, and that seemed to do the trick. I had already ordered one of the recommended dongles on Amazon, but once I got the controllers working, I canceled the order, haha. The controllers themselves are alright. Most of the buttons, trackpads, sticks, and tracking all seemed to work fine, but the controllers are kind of slick and a bit odd to hold on to. The menu button (just next to the sticks) is pretty shitty, since there's almost no travel, it feels like you aren't even hitting the button. Also, unless I think about it before doing it, clicking in the sticks causes me to hit the grip button (however, the grip button placement/size is still a million times better than on the Vive wands). I tried a bit of H3 VR while sitting, and at first, it was kind of a pain in the ass (mostly because I was sitting, and I haven't played in awhile, and that game takes some knowledge to have a decent time). I definitely did notice the tracking freak out a bit when I moved my hands too far away from the headset (or got really close to aim), so my first impressions weren't that great, but, I got used to needing to either look more towards my hand, or just be a bit more deliberate with my movements. Again, this was all while seated though, so needing to duck and dodge the furniture/my desk complicated things a bit. I think in a bigger space, it'd probably be ok, as long as the game you are playing handles de-syncing controllers more gracefully than some of the stuff I played on my Vive when I first got it.

Anyways, I ended up spending a few hours playing iRacing (again, what I was mainly looking to use it for), and other than me getting nervous and shaky when I was racing, the headset seemed to work alright. My framerate seemed to suffer a bit more than if I was using the Vive, and I'm assuming that's due to the increase of resolution, so I may need to adjust some settings, but I finished further up than where I started at least! If I could get the headset to sit closer to my face, I think it would actually be a better experience than the Vive, as having to set up the basestation(s) and the breakout box is a hassle. I'll need to keep playing with it before I decide if I want to sell it to my buddy, maybe an extra elastic strap by my cheeks would help? On other WMR headsets (or possibly even a new one of mine), maybe the hinges are tighter. I do notice that if I flip the headset up, it drops a bit, causing the WMR Portal to take focus again, so I have to hold it up to use the mouse in other stuff. I'll need to see if I can maybe fix that too. Also, with my current haircut, after a bit, I get lines along my head giving me a dickhead/mushroom head hairdo, haha.

Essentially, if you want to do VR on the cheap, it's probably not a terrible option, especially if you can get a good condition refurb like I did. Again, I'm only speaking in regards to the HP headset, and pretty much for sitting stuff/simracing stuff only. I'll need to try other stuff out before I can determine whether it's an alright room scale alternative to the Vive (I'm thinking of grabbing BeatSaber.....). It definitely is easier to set up, and that alone will probably mean I use it more.

*Oh, and getting it to work with SteamVR stuff seems super simple. I just run the WMR Portal, make sure that's good, then open up SteamVR. I also downloaded the WMR app on Steam, but that seemed to not work as reliably as the method that I use (?). Once the Portal and SteamVR was running, it seemed to work just fine with the few games I threw at it.
 
Last edited:

Lunatic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,833
Really pissed me of that Samsung don't sell the Odyssey here for some arbitrary reason. That's the only one I was really interested in getting. Can't stomach getting a Lenovo for £400 here when i've seen it sell for $199
 
OP
OP
snapcracken

snapcracken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
619
**Apologies for the novel!**

Got a Vive shortly after launch, and while I used it a bunch when I first got it, it's been sitting under my desk since about month three, other than when I feel up to pulling it out for some iRacing (which I really don't play unless I have VR now, it's THAT good in VR). For my setup, the Vive is kind of a pain in the ass, as I don't really have much desk space, and am pretty short on spots to plug in power. If you include my steering wheel, I've got that, plus the headset power, plus at least one base station to plug in. Then, since I don't want to/can't drill into the wall, I have to put the basestation near my desk, and if anything bumps into it, I lose tracking for a second or two, which happens pretty often when I'm wrestling my wheel around. It pretty much exists as a sitting VR headset only, as it's also a pain to set up the basestations in the living room.

Saw a refurbished HP headset for sale for around $160 on Amazon and took a chance on it. I figure best case, I splurged a little, and now have a headset that is easier to set up and use for VR simracing stuff, and worst case, I have a friend who LOVED my Vive, but didn't want to spend that much, so I could at least break even by selling it to him. Got it yesterday, and spent the day messing with it.

The initial setup was kind of a pain in the ass. Since it was a refurb unit, it didn't really come with any kind of instructions or setup procedures. I had the Mixed Reality Portal installed, and the first time I connected the headset, the app didn't recognize anything. I did a quick reboot, and then the app started to recognize the headset. I also didn't realize you needed some kind of bluetooth connection for the controllers. Luckily, I had a small and really cheap bluetooth adapter, so I plugged that in. In the app, the controllers were seen and connected, but they didn't seem to want to do anything past that point of the setup process. They didn't show up in the starting area, and turning them off and then back on didn't do anything. Another reboot didn't help either. For the time being then, I just used an xbox controller.

As far as the headset itself goes, even compared to the original head mounting straps on the Vive (I haven't used the new mount you can buy), it's a bit uncomfortable. The band is kind of too narrow for my head, so to keep it from moving, I have to cinch it down quite a bit, which causes some irritation. Then, I'm assuming it has a smaller "sweet spot" than on the Vive, because it's really hard to get a stable and clear image compared to the Vive. Since there doesn't seem to be any kind of IPD or focus adjustments, I just have to move the headset itself around a bit. But there's another issue in that the hinge mechanism doesn't seem strong enough to keep the headset in one spot, tight up against my face. After a few hours of messing with it, I finally got it in an OK spot, but even with the higher resolution screen, for me, the image quality seems worse off. I'll need to keep messing with it though. Also, the field of view seemed noticeably smaller than on the Vive. It was much nice if I manually held the headset against my face (and the blurriness went away too), but as soon as I let go, both the FoV and blurriness got worse again.

On top of THAT, there are two dead pixels on the left eye screen, one in the top center (and noticeable in dark scenes), and the other also in the left eye screen, but near the top right corner and only noticeable if I press the headset to my face. Since it is a refurb, I'm not too upset, since I'm assuming that might actually be why somebody returned it anyways.

I eventually did get the controllers to pair. I ended up re-pairing them to the bluetooth dongle outside of the app manually, and that seemed to do the trick. I had already ordered one of the recommended dongles on Amazon, but once I got the controllers working, I canceled the order, haha. The controllers themselves are alright. Most of the buttons, trackpads, sticks, and tracking all seemed to work fine, but the controllers are kind of slick and a bit odd to hold on to. The menu button (just next to the sticks) is pretty shitty, since there's almost no travel, it feels like you aren't even hitting the button. Also, unless I think about it before doing it, clicking in the sticks causes me to hit the grip button (however, the grip button placement/size is still a million times better than on the Vive wands). I tried a bit of H3 VR while sitting, and at first, it was kind of a pain in the ass (mostly because I was sitting, and I haven't played in awhile, and that game takes some knowledge to have a decent time). I definitely did notice the tracking freak out a bit when I moved my hands too far away from the headset (or got really close to aim), so my first impressions weren't that great, but, I got used to needing to either look more towards my hand, or just be a bit more deliberate with my movements. Again, this was all while seated though, so needing to duck and dodge the furniture/my desk complicated things a bit. I think in a bigger space, it'd probably be ok, as long as the game you are playing handles de-syncing controllers more gracefully than some of the stuff I played on my Vive when I first got it.

Anyways, I ended up spending a few hours playing iRacing (again, what I was mainly looking to use it for), and other than me getting nervous and shaky when I was racing, the headset seemed to work alright. My framerate seemed to suffer a bit more than if I was using the Vive, and I'm assuming that's due to the increase of resolution, so I may need to adjust some settings, but I finished further up than where I started at least! If I could get the headset to sit closer to my face, I think it would actually be a better experience than the Vive, as having to set up the basestation(s) and the breakout box is a hassle. I'll need to keep playing with it before I decide if I want to sell it to my buddy, maybe an extra elastic strap by my cheeks would help? On other WMR headsets (or possibly even a new one of mine), maybe the hinges are tighter. I do notice that if I flip the headset up, it drops a bit, causing the WMR Portal to take focus again, so I have to hold it up to use the mouse in other stuff. I'll need to see if I can maybe fix that too. Also, with my current haircut, after a bit, I get lines along my head giving me a dickhead/mushroom head hairdo, haha.

Essentially, if you want to do VR on the cheap, it's probably not a terrible option, especially if you can get a good condition refurb like I did. Again, I'm only speaking in regards to the HP headset, and pretty much for sitting stuff/simracing stuff only. I'll need to try other stuff out before I can determine whether it's an alright room scale alternative to the Vive (I'm thinking of grabbing BeatSaber.....). It definitely is easier to set up, and that alone will probably mean I use it more.

*Oh, and getting it to work with SteamVR stuff seems super simple. I just run the WMR Portal, make sure that's good, then open up SteamVR. I also downloaded the WMR app on Steam, but that seemed to not work as reliably as the method that I use (?). Once the Portal and SteamVR was running, it seemed to work just fine with the few games I threw at it.

Thanks for your impressions. For your use case, in racing setups, I've heard Mixed Reality isn't a terrible option because you aren't using the controllers as much, which avoids one of the major problems of the headsets (blind spots). I have heard of the controllers being a bit finnicky depending on the bluetooth adapter you're using as well.

Outside of that, I would point out that there should be a digital IPD setting in the Windows 10 Settings app (the HMD Odyssey has physical IPD adjustment, but none of the others do). Valve has also added in new resolution settings in SteamVR to let you adjust what resolution the game renders at--you could play around with that to see what works best for you.

As for how it fits on your head, it seems to depend on size of head/how you want the headset to fit on your head. I know for the Samsung headset, the two options are having the band tight enough that the lens sit in front of your face--that seems to be how you're doing it--or loosening the band and having the lens area rest on the bridge of your nose. I don't like this as much because it exerts pressure on my nose in a somewhat uncomfortable way, but others have had better success with that method. Another option is to get a thicker face pad so you can let it sit loosely on your head while still blocking out most light, but ymmv.
 

KillerAJD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
267
Thanks for your impressions. For your use case, in racing setups, I've heard Mixed Reality isn't a terrible option because you aren't using the controllers as much, which avoids one of the major problems of the headsets (blind spots). I have heard of the controllers being a bit finnicky depending on the bluetooth adapter you're using as well.

Outside of that, I would point out that there should be a digital IPD setting in the Windows 10 Settings app (the HMD Odyssey has physical IPD adjustment, but none of the others do). Valve has also added in new resolution settings in SteamVR to let you adjust what resolution the game renders at--you could play around with that to see what works best for you.

As for how it fits on your head, it seems to depend on size of head/how you want the headset to fit on your head. I know for the Samsung headset, the two options are having the band tight enough that the lens sit in front of your face--that seems to be how you're doing it--or loosening the band and having the lens area rest on the bridge of your nose. I don't like this as much because it exerts pressure on my nose in a somewhat uncomfortable way, but others have had better success with that method. Another option is to get a thicker face pad so you can let it sit loosely on your head while still blocking out most light, but ymmv.

Awesome, thanks for the info! It definitely seems like a good option for those wanting to to simracing/flying games. I will have to check out the digital IPD adjustment, that sounds like it could be a good fix. As far as how it sits on my head, yeah, the straps on the Vive seem to work better BECAUSE they are flexible enough to let me put it how I want. My cheeks are pretty pronounced, so that will invariably effect how it sits on my face, so I want to do some more adjusting to see if I can get it any better. Trying it on right now, I get some bad pressure points at the back of my head, where the edges of the back strap/cushion sit. That, along with adjusting the IPD, may fix most of my current issues. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy for spending only $160 on something that for a comparable system two years ago, cost me $800 (ok, well, thinking on it, happy may not be the correct word, haha).
 

ThreePi

Member
Dec 7, 2017
4,773
I bought the HP set around December when the first deep sale happened. For all intents and purposes it works fine. The only game that really gave me any tracking issues was Gorn because of the wide sweeping attacks, But room space tracking has been good and its worked fine for all the various shooting galleries out there. I just wish there was something compelling enough to really spend a lot of time in VR for.
 

KillerAJD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
267
Just as a bit of an update, I've been using my HP headset a bit more, and have been spending about half an hour/hour with it everyday after work this week. I picked up Beat Saber because it looked fun (and the manual beatmaps seem like they'd be more fun than the auto-generated stuff I played with in Audioshield). As it turns out, it's pretty damn awesome! I was afraid that the controllers would lose tracking when playing, but I don't think I've ever had an issue in Beat Saber yet. Occasionally, I do have an issue where the headset won't be recognized, and I have to reboot my PC at least once (sometimes more) to get it to show up, and I've also had the tracking get erratic, everything freeze, and then it crashes, ejecting all of my USB devices, so I ended up picking up a PCIE USB 3 card, and will hopefully install that today (I needed more USB ports anyways, haha). I'm hoping that fixes those issues, as when it all works, it's super quick and easy to set up, but when it doesn't, it's a pain in the ass to get working again.

As far as the headset goes, I think I finally figured out how to wear it so it fits better and more comfortably than before, and I've reduced the amount of issues I had with getting it in the sweet spot. I'm wearing it higher up on my head, kind of like a baseball cap, and that seems to work nicely. I think I could still attach some elastic straps that hold the bottom of the headset to my face, but I'm ok with how it is for now. I have noticed that tilting up the headset is kind of a pain with the default cable clip, so I may add a zip tie like some have done in the WMR subreddit to keep it from binding up. I also bought a Vive N Chill, which hopefully will ship sometime in the next week or so(?), and will try using that as well (since this headset doesn't have a USB port, I'll just need to wear a battery pack, which is fine.).

For $160, I'm pretty damn happy with it so far. I was talking to somebody in the WMR subreddit, and it turns out, my headset still has like 8 months of manufacturer warranty on it left. I'm wondering if I could use that to try and get a headset without the dead pixels, but then again, once I started actually using the headset, I rarely, if ever, noticed them. We'll see I guess.
 

Caesar III

Member
Jan 3, 2018
921
mine is on the way. I ordered a lenovo explorer together with a friend of mine from overseas. (we are in Europe) Even those 280€ are cheap compared to here.

Can't wait to try it. I'm quite confident it can replace my Oculus Dk2
 

DJLoonatic

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4
It's good to see a windows mixed reality thread. I have a samsung Odyssey and love it. People should be aware that there is a cheaper VR option.
 
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snapcracken

snapcracken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
619

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,034
As a glasses wearer, the Lenovo is a solid choice. I also appreciate its comparatively good FoV.
 

Lunatic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,833
Are there any 3rd Party WMR controllers with USB rechargable batteries like the Vive? I'm tired of swapping them out everyday
 

Rolento

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,525
A couple of fun facts: The original plan for Kinect 2.0 was to be a dual lighthouse setup that would specifically work with AR/VR. As seen above the TV in the 2010 leak:
msroadmap_2ndscreen_630px.jpg


Also, Kinect V3 is what is in the current Hololens. The next Hololens will include the Kinect V4 which was just released as Kinect for Azure. It's specs are literally twice that of Kinect 2.0 that came with the Xbox One:

project_kinect_azure_1280.0.jpg

https://www.polygon.com/2018/5/7/17327982/project-kinect-azure-ai-sensor-microsoft

I'm hoping for a version of this new super-Kinect we can plug into a USB port on the Xbox One.
I'm also hoping for a wireless Mixed Reality Headset for the Xbox One.
I hope both are released next month at E3.

I hope a lot.


This greatly interests me as I am working with Kinect-like devices for work.
 

Railgun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,148
Australia
A couple of fun facts: The original plan for Kinect 2.0 was to be a dual lighthouse setup that would specifically work with AR/VR. As seen above the TV in the 2010 leak:
msroadmap_2ndscreen_630px.jpg


Also, Kinect V3 is what is in the current Hololens. The next Hololens will include the Kinect V4 which was just released as Kinect for Azure. It's specs are literally twice that of Kinect 2.0 that came with the Xbox One:

project_kinect_azure_1280.0.jpg

https://www.polygon.com/2018/5/7/17327982/project-kinect-azure-ai-sensor-microsoft

I'm hoping for a version of this new super-Kinect we can plug into a USB port on the Xbox One.
I'm also hoping for a wireless Mixed Reality Headset for the Xbox One.
I hope both are released next month at E3.

I hope a lot.
A WMR headset using inside out tracking with the KinectV4 sensor like Hololens would be awesome. Imagine it using the 3D data to track and animate your arms in games so you're not just floating hands!
 

severianb

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
957
A WMR headset using inside out tracking with the KinectV4 sensor like Hololens would be awesome. Imagine it using the 3D data to track and animate your arms in games so you're not just floating hands!

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that the WMR headsets *DO* use the same inside out tech as Hololens, just cut down (visible light only?) for cost reasons.
 

Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,630
If you could use this on a Xbox One X, I would buy it today.
Will eventually come. Although the Xbox One X doesn't have Bluetooth and has only one USB 3. so maybe you would need new headsets. They could sell some kind of breakout box for older headset compatibility on Xbox. New headsets would probably be Wireless.
 
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snapcracken

snapcracken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
619
Just want to chip in that there are actually a couple of smaller, unknown VR headsets that uses Windows MR too.

https://mspoweruser.com/fujitsu-joi...party-with-their-own-headset-and-laptop-pair/
Fujitsu has a VR system call Fujitsu Win MR headset. But it seems to be limited to Japan region.

Fujitsu-FMV-LIFEBOOK-AH-MR-B3.jpg
Fujitsu-Mixed-Reality-Headset.jpg


Another is created by Chinese company 3glasses
http://www.3glasses.com/en/product/productS2.html

1920S2_02.jpg
1920S2_04.jpg

I noted the 3glasses headset in the OP, but forgot about the Fujitsu one. I haven't seen it online or on any lists, but remember there was a demo station in an Akihabara shop when I visited Tokyo. Didn't seem to work at the time so I wasn't able to try it out. Am adding it to the OP now.
 

severianb

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
957
Will eventually come. Although the Xbox One X doesn't have Bluetooth and has only one USB 3. so maybe you would need new headsets. They could sell some kind of breakout box for older headset compatibility on Xbox. New headsets would probably be Wireless.

Before the X1X launched, Spencer (I think) said the only software that would be exclusive to it (eg. not on the OG or S) would be VR. In another interview, he said that he didn't want VR headsets on console unless they were wireless. I'm having a hard time finding the interviews, but here is an article confirming these things were said and I'm not losing my mind.

Phil announcing a wireless VR headset for the X1X is one of the few things that would tingle the cockles of my heart at E3 2018.

(Edit: In addition, in teardowns, the wireless chipset on the X1X is different than the old ones.. good enough for wireless video?)
 
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Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,630
Before the X1X launched, Spencer (I think) said the only software that would be exclusive to it (eg. not on the OG or S) would be VR. In another interview, he said that he didn't want VR headsets on console unless they were wireless. I'm having a hard time finding the interviews, but here is an article confirming these things were said and I'm not losing my mind.

Phil announcing a wireless VR headset for the X1X is one of the few things that would tingle the cockles of my heart at E3 2018.

(Edit: In addition, in teardowns, the wireless chipset on the X1X is different than the old ones.. good enough for wireless video?)
The wireless comment was during the Giant Bomb E3 interview.



As for VR at E3 this year, idk. I hope they bring it. There was this blog post where it mentioned Windows MR coming to Project Scorpio in 2018.

We're also excited to share that Windows Mixed Reality experiences will light up on other devices over time, beyond desktop and Microsoft HoloLens. Our plan is to bring mixed reality content to the Xbox One family of devices, including Project Scorpio, in 2018.
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsex..._win_tw_Photo_lrn_WinMR31#LRJdZ4HfdObkcRLB.97

And there was some kind of Windows MR stage talk that Alex Kipman did where he said it was coming in 2018. But with Phil wanting it to be wireless for the Living Room and him being promoted and no longer having to answer to anyone from Windows, I think its been delayed. But we'll see.

Unless of course Wireless VR at a affordable price is coming sooner than I thought.
 

I KILL PXLS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,542
I'm torn on when VR will come to Xbox. On one hand, the tech is there now for wireless VR and Microsoft already has WMR in place which gives them a clear avenue to bring VR to Xbox. On the other, I could see them just waiting until true gen 2 VR to coincide with a new console generation in a couple/few years that can avoid the "VR will be X1X exclusive" confusion they'd have to handle if they brought it out today. Right now I'm banking on the latter.
 

severianb

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
957
The wireless comment was during the Giant Bomb E3 interview.



As for VR at E3 this year, idk. I hope they bring it. There was this blog post where it mentioned Windows MR coming to Project Scorpio in 2018.


https://blogs.windows.com/windowsex..._win_tw_Photo_lrn_WinMR31#LRJdZ4HfdObkcRLB.97

And there was some kind of Windows MR stage talk that Alex Kipman did where he said it was coming in 2018. But with Phil wanting it to be wireless for the Living Room and him being promoted and no longer having to answer to anyone from Windows, I think its been delayed. But we'll see.

Unless of course Wireless VR at a affordable price is coming sooner than I thought.


Wow, thanks a lot for digging up all those references! Great stuff. That interview pretty much totally shoots down any hope I had, though. Phil literally says it's YEARS away because he thinks it needs a wireless headset in the living room.

Kinda pisses me off to be honest. They obviously have the hardware to run it on Scorpio or it wouldn't have been mentioned in that blog post. Yeah, Phil, some mouthbreathers are going to trip over cords and destroy their Xbox Ones. That's no reason to cede an entire market to your competitors..... AGAIN.

So frustrating being a Microsoft Xbox fan sometimes.


Edit: Makes me think that the Angry Clippy that appears when you plug a WMR headset into a Scorpio is the work of internal engineers who were pissed off thier Scorpio-WMR project was canned when they already had it working. I have ZERO doubt a simple switch could be flipped and WMR headsets would work on the Scorpio. Some higher ups obviously nixed a working feature. Was it Phil? He's the one ultimately responsible. I want a witch hunt investigation now.
 
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snapcracken

snapcracken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
619
Wow, thanks a lot for digging up all those references! Great stuff. That interview pretty much totally shoots down any hope I had, though. Phil literally says it's YEARS away because he thinks it needs a wireless headset in the living room.

Kinda pisses me off to be honest. They obviously have the hardware to run it on Scorpio or it wouldn't have been mentioned in that blog post. Yeah, Phil, some mouthbreathers are going to trip over cords and destroy their Xbox Ones. That's no reason to cede an entire market to your competitors..... AGAIN.

So frustrating being a Microsoft Xbox fan sometimes.


Edit: Makes me think that the Angry Clippy that appears when you plug a WMR headset into a Scorpio is the work of internal engineers who were pissed off thier Scorpio-WMR project was canned when they already had it working. I have ZERO doubt a simple switch could be flipped and WMR headsets would work on the Scorpio. Some higher ups obviously nixed a working feature. Was it Phil? He's the one ultimately responsible. I want a witch hunt investigation now.

To be fair, I think it's simply VR as a market hasn't super taken off, and unless they go all-in and start funding VR games and moneyhatting exclusives, it'll just reflect poorly in the minds and hearts of players--"MS can't compete with PSVR, look how few exclusives they have!"

And I sort of agree with Phil in that he doesn't seem to think it's ready yet for the broad consumer masses. While I enjoy my HMD Odyssey, there aren't very many games or experiences that justify putting on the headset for me, much less pay $20+ for something that only lasts two hours. I think his idea is that once it gets truly wireless, the market will have matured enough that either they will be able to jump in with zero worry, or it'll faltered in a way that nobody will blame them for skipping out.