Witcher 3 frame pacing gives me a fucking headache

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,140
Like, why though?

You don't have to be an enthusiast to think "this game feels like shit" or "playing this game makes me feel ill/gives me a headache" the only difference between me and someone who is less of a nerd is that they might not have the language to express why the game made them feel that way in the first place.

I'm pretty sure every human being on earth likes a game that feels snappy and responsive and -more importantly- smooth. And I think the trend devs are moving towards with dynamic res and dynamic whatever the fuck else are destroying frame times and turning games into a stuttery mess all for a couple extra pixels
Apparently they don't as the PS4 and Xbox One versions of games that have mediocre frame rates sell and review very well.

The vast majority of consumers seem to prefer a cheaper barrier to entry and convenience over better performance and visuals.
 
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remz

remz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
Apparently they don't as the PS4 and Xbox One versions of games that have mediocre frame rates sell and review very well.

The vast majority of consumers seem to prefer a cheaper barrier to entry and convenience over better performance and visuals.
I mean, over time the Witcher 3 sold better on PC than it did on either of the consoles. Pretty exceptional to be honest.


I can't prove this is because of people like me wanting to play the game without having a fucking migrane but hey
 

Maxey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,651
Portugal
I mean, over time the Witcher 3 sold better on PC than it did on either of the consoles. Pretty exceptional to be honest.


I can't prove this is because of people like me wanting to play the game without having a fucking migrane but hey
The Witcher series has traditionally been a more PC-centric franchise.

The first game was a PC exclusive and the second only had a later 360 port.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,955
Sorry but this sounds so hyperbolic. I played it on a launch PS4 with no issue.

I’ve always considered 60 FPS like a nice commodity, so it’s not the end of the world when i play shit locked at 30 FPS.
I doubt the game is even locked 30fps on a base PS4 in Novigrad or Crookback Bog. It sure as hell wasn't when the game first game out.
 
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remz

remz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
The Witcher series has traditionally been a more PC-centric franchise.

The first game was a PC exclusive and the second only had a later 360 port.
If this was the reason, wouldn't console sales have ramped up over time instead of down as word of mouth spread about the game?
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,148
"stop thinking consume great product"

"buy more product to consume product smoother"
You mean to say the developers don't want to invest time optimizing a years-old game just because a small portion of people have issues with the performance mode's frame-timing? A mode only enabled by better-performing consoles that didn't exist at the game's launch? And it's possible to fully solve this issue, but you have to PAY in order to address an extremely particular annoyance that most people will never notice!?

Wow, what a bunch of bullshit. Move over EA, there's a new contender for Worst Company in Existence and its name is CDPR.
 
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remz

remz

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Oct 25, 2017
2,923
You mean to say the developers don't want to invest time optimizing a years-old game just because a small portion of people have issues with the performance mode's frame-timing? A mode only enabled by better-performing consoles that didn't exist at the game's launch? And it's possible to fully solve this issue, but you have to PAY in order to address an extremely particular annoyance that most people will never notice!?

Wow, what a bunch of bullshit. Move over EA, there's a new contender for Worst Company in Existence and its name is CDPR.
They already made the patch. It's just that I think the decision to make the "performance mode" unlocked/variable 45-60 fps was a stupid one and defeats the purpose of having a performance mode in a patch to begin with. If they couldn't get 60 they should have left it at the 30fps/4k mode which while not perfect is a better experience. A "small portion of people have issues" is bullshit sorry. It runs like shit on that mode and that's a fact.'

It's not even really about CDPR- It's more about the greater trend overall of console games running like fucking shit and more console power just being used to make the game run like shit at higher resolution instead of smooth.

If you're going to make a performance mode it should be like DOOM 2016 or forza horizon 4- Locked 60fps.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,955
They already made the patch. It's just that I think the decision to make the "performance mode" unlocked/variable 45-60 fps was a stupid one and defeats the purpose of having a performance mode in a patch to begin with. If they couldn't get 60 they should have left it at the 30fps/4k mode which while not perfect is a better experience.

If you're going to make a performance mode it should be like DOOM 2016 or forza horizon 4- Locked 60fps.
There is a 4k30fps option though and believe or not there are plenty of people who prefer 40-60fps over locked 30. God of War 2018 had the exact same unlocked frame rate mode a lot of people on PS4 Pro happily used it.

I personally hate unstable frame rate but it's just an alternative, it's only bad when it's the only option (for example stuff like Kingdom Hearts 3 and LiS 2 on console). The reality is you're not getting locked 60fps in most cases on Jaguar CPUs.
 

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,148
They already made the patch. It's just that I think the decision to make the "performance mode" unlocked/variable 45-60 fps was a stupid one and defeats the purpose of having a performance mode in a patch to begin with. If they couldn't get 60 they should have left it at the 30fps/4k mode which while not perfect is a better experience.

If you're going to make a performance mode it should be like DOOM 2016 or forza horizon 4- Locked 60fps.
It was a free patch made for consoles that came out years later. How much time and money do you expect them to put into getting perfect? I'm sure they fiddled around with a bit, realized "Well, we can unlock the framerate and the extra power boosts it up the mid-40s, anything else will take a lot of time" and called it a day. Which is fine for a free patch.

"This free feature isn't up to my personal standards so it shouldn't exist for anyone" is a little extreme, no?

Doom and Forza are very, very different types of games than the Witcher. This is like saying "Geometry Wars runs at 60 fps, why the hell can't Bethesda get Fallout 4 running at that framerate?" If it was easy they would have done it, but it's not and they're working on other projects. They went out of their way to provide a bonus feature for free and somehow you find that worth complaining about.
 
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remz

remz

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Oct 25, 2017
2,923
Doom and Forza are very, very different types of games than the Witcher. This is like saying "Geometry Wars runs at 60 fps, why the hell can't Bethesda get Fallout 4 running at that framerate?" If it was easy they would have done it, but it's not and they're working on other projects. They went out of their way to provide a bonus feature for free and somehow you find that worth complaining about.
I understand that Doom mostly takes place in small rooms and Forza is just cars as opposed to Withcer which takes place ina lush world filled with NPCs, foilage and beasts on a giant map but at the end of the day it's an action game where you hit things with a sword and games where you hit things with a sword are better at 60FPS.

Every day I look at bloodborne and shed a tear for what it would be if it didn't run like fucking ass with long as fuck loading screens

There is a 4k30fps option though and believe or not there are plenty of people who prefer 40-60fps over locked 30. God of War 2018 had the exact same unlocked frame rate mode a lot of people on PS4 Pro happily used it.

I personally hate unstable frame rate but it's just an alternative, it's only bad when it's the only option (for example stuff like Kingdom Hearts 3 and LiS 2 on console). The reality is you're not getting locked 60fps in most cases on Jaguar CPUs.
So the real issue here is the shitty CPU. Why did microsoft even bother with the ONE X.
 

Bunzy

Member
Nov 1, 2018
846
I’m pretty sure blood borne was an almost constant 30fps but suffered from non stop framepacing.

think digital foundry talked about the final update on ps4 pro. It runs at a perfect 30fps
 
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remz

remz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
Because it wasn't made solely to try and get The Witcher 3 running at 60fps?

What the fuck is this thread even still about?
I don't know why it bothers you so bad that bad performances bothers me. I was just trying to hopefully find some kindred spirits frustrated that even with this gen's "powerful" consoles, console gaming can still be a miserable experience marred by awful frame pacing.

If you don't get headache or feel sick from inconsistent frame rates- lucky you! as for me, I have to play in short bursts or not at all if a game runs bad. It's pretty insensitive too to act like I'm some asshole because low frame rate games make me sick. It's not like I can help my bodies response.
Frame rate elitists will always amuse me
Playing games with shitty inconsistant frame pacing literally makes me feel ill but have fun on that high horse king
 

Maxey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,651
Portugal
I don't know why it bothers you so bad that bad performances bothers me. I was just trying to hopefully find some kindred spirits frustrated that even with this gen's "powerful" consoles, console gaming can still be a miserable experience marred by awful frame pacing.

If you don't get headache or feel sick from inconsistent frame rates- lucky you! as for me, I have to play in short bursts or not at all if a game runs bad. It's pretty insensitive too to act like I'm some asshole because low frame rate games make me sick. It's not like I can help my bodies response.
I understand your frustration and yes, I'm lucky it doesn't physically me affect me like it does you and others but you're also kinda losing the plot here.

It would be fantastic if bad framepacing wasn't a thing at all but you can't go and start blaming MS for making a console that can't make every game run at perfect 60fps when that's not their job in the first place.

Could CDPR have made TW3 run at a perfect 60fps on X1X? Perhaps, if they had implemented dynamic res but most probably their engine didn't support it at the time and perhaps they didn't have the time or resources to add it to the engine, so they just unlocked the framerate and deemed it good enough for the majority of users. After all, not everyone notices or is even affected by it. I mean, if that weren't the case, Bloodborne would've been a flop and very few people would be singing it praise.

Sorry that it affects in such a way but it's also such an uncommon issue and so localized to a small fraction of players, that it's just not that big of a worry in the grand scheme of things.

Besides, you still have the option of running it at a stable 60fps on the PC you already own, so it's not really a lost case for you.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,304
And even if I did drop money on a gaming PC it's not exactly a guarantee for good frame pacing either. I'm playing monster hunter world on a gtx 1060/i7 combo and the game is littered with microstutting.
You can definitely run the witcher 3 on that system with mostly ultra at 1080p/60 fps easily and not only that but it will look better too. Just because monster hunter runs like shit, doesn't mean the witcher 3 is the same.
 

Adam Kallin

Member
Nov 2, 2017
317
The frame pacing is significantly worse than that on PC. I didn’t have the most powerful PC when I played it, but microstuttering is there to some extent on every video I’ve seen too. Maybe it’s possible to fix using RTSS but I’m not so sure.
 
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remz

remz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
Could CDPR have made TW3 run at a perfect 60fps on X1X? Perhaps, if they had implemented dynamic res but most probably their engine didn't support it at the time and perhaps they didn't have the time or resources to add it to the engine, so they just unlocked the framerate and deemed it good enough for the majority of users. After all, not everyone notices or is even affected by it. I mean, if that weren't the case, Bloodborne would've been a flop and very few people would be singing it praise.
The game does already have dynamic res on both modes iirc, but for some reason it doesn't aggressively target 60fps and is happy to float around thr 45-60 range
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,304
The frame pacing is significantly worse than that on PC. I didn’t have the most powerful PC when I played it, but microstuttering is there to some extent on every video I’ve seen too. Maybe it’s possible to fix using RTSS but I’m not so sure.
I didn't have any issues and I played the game on multiple tier of PCs. Maybe it affects some PC more then others. I think anyone with an SSD and a decent CPU will have a much better framepacing then the console versions. I remember the PS4 version and oh boy it ran like shit.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,955
Dynamic res wouldn't do anything because at that point the consoles are CPU limited. The 1X's GPU can easily run TW3 at 1080p60fps at console settings.
 
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Skyebaron

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,812
If youre on console land you should expect lower framerates and uneven frametimes. The few games that get it right are the exception. Hope that changes next gen cause the solution right now is a $800 PC and a high learning curve.
 
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remz

remz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
The frame pacing is significantly worse than that on PC. I didn’t have the most powerful PC when I played it, but microstuttering is there to some extent on every video I’ve seen too. Maybe it’s possible to fix using RTSS but I’m not so sure.
I was ready to order from GoG full price until I read this 😬 RTSS it shall be i guess
 

Maxey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,651
Portugal
I wonder if they added Vulkan or DX12 renderers to it, if it would noticeably mitigate or even eliminate the bad framepacing altogether.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
2,153
The game does already have dynamic res on both modes iirc, but for some reason it doesn't aggressively target 60fps and is happy to float around thr 45-60 range
At some point you have to realise you chose the wrong platform to play this game on given your complaints. The game simply cannot run at 60fps at all times because of the CPU in these consoles. The times it manages 60fps are cases where the game is not CPU limited. The griffin fight in the video you posted runs at a nearly locked 60fps, while in others it will get bogged down to higher 30s. There isn't any open world that runs at 60fps on consoles. Common limitation is the CPU, not the developers.
 

DaciaJC

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,889
And just because I have a PC where I myself could play this game at what I want doesn't mean that adding a garbage "performance" mode is suddenly OK. What about all my console brothers out there slugging it having to deal with terrible performance and (side issue) loading times?
Going by other threads, one gets the impression that many of them simply don't care.

For what it's worth, I think you're right to be annoyed, but there isn't exactly a large and vocal group of console players clamoring for premium performance settings and optimization, at least not to the degree as you might find in the PC community. And as a result, devs/pubs aren't going to make fulfilling that demand a very high priority.

Of course, at the same, ancient console tech probably makes achieving perfect 60 fps a near-impossibility for some games or situations regardless of effort, as others above have pointed out.
 
Oct 28, 2017
290
Australia
Perspective. What is it?

Play it at 30 fps and there's no problem. That's how everyone played it when it came out. But these INCREDIBLY minor issues and you're - sorry, but it's true - throwing a tantrum. The answer is get a PC, or deal with it and maybe deal with it like a grown-up.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,430
If they couldn't get 60 they should have left it at the 30fps/4k mode which while not perfect is a better experience.
Completely disagree with you here; lots of people requested the unlocked framerate knowing that the game wouldn't be completely stable, they enjoy it for what it is, some people use freesync to get the best of the situation, others aren't bothered by it at all (I prefer it over locked because the combat/movement feels greatly improved for the most part)... you seem adversely affected by it; you have the option to not use it. That's literally win-win for all involved coming in with a free patch well over two years after the game released.
 

Buenoblue

Member
May 5, 2018
129
Yeah if you really care about performance that much that it rages you invest in a pc. It's the only way to control that shit.
 

ChippyTurtle

Member
Oct 13, 2018
1,292
Install RTSS https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/rtss-rivatuner-statistics-server-download.html
Set the Framerate cap there to 60fps.
Disable internal framerate cap.

or better: via Durante https://www.pcgamer.com/durantes-witcher-3-analysis-the-alchemy-of-smoothness/

"disable both the in-game frame limiter and in-game Vsync, use borderless fullscreen mode for correct triple buffering and set the desired framerate limit in RTSS"
thank you for the link, Durante is a fucking god.
 

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,866
United Kingdom
Yeah it's bad, I've bought the game on PC, PS4 and Switch and PS4 is the version I'll never play again. At least the Switch version is portable to make up for it.

Same shit will happen next gen too, I dunno why devs that are confident with PC (like CDPR) struggle with getting a good performance mode on consoles, or even seem to not understand what a performance mode should be. Bouncing between 30 and 50 fps is not a performance mode. Cyberpunk on these consoles is going to be a mess.
 

Mars People

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,859
RTSS on PC is bascially the only way to guarantee good framepacing.
Or use Gsync I guess.

The framerate locks built into games are 95% awful.

With every game I always set the framerate to 'unlimited' in game than set a custom limit in RTSS.
Best practice.
 

Mendrox

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,757
And even if I did drop money on a gaming PC it's not exactly a guarantee for good frame pacing either. I'm playing monster hunter world on a gtx 1060/i7 combo and the game is littered with microstutting.
Your PC is way better than mine and Witcher 3 looks and works fine on mine lol. Just play it on your PC. Witcher is CPU bound
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,955
RTSS can cause stuttering or make it worse too, it depends on the game. Personally for TW3 I just put the frame counter to unlimited and force vsync in the NVCP and I get perfect frame times outside of a few spots in Novigrad.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
3,034
1060 should be fine for this.

Maybe turn foliage distance down a little, like high instead of ultra or maybe medium. From what I recall that's the one that really introduces stutter.

Why play this on an X when you have a system like that, I don't understand.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,234
Fluctuating performance is not the same thing as bad frame pacing.
It ends up being bad frame pacing. Bad frame pacing can have multiple meanings, but even when simply meaning "frame integrated time is inconsistent with frame display time", well then that's usually the case with fluctuating framerate (even if theoretically it could be compensated, it's not in the general use case for multiple reasons).

And if it's just bad frame display time pacing then well inconsistent framerate is exactly that.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,234
Can you explain how this works? I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious.
It's possible in theory, it's impossible in practice. It basically means you're able to know beforehand the EXACT compute time of the next frame. And fluctuating framerate usually happens because, well, compute time varies from one frame to the other.

Edit:
Also I swear to god if I buy the PC version and the frame pacing is still fucking shit I'm charging my credit card bill to Resetera.com LLC
PC version of TW2 had headache inducing frame pacing issues. Not sure about TW3.