With BC being crucial to next-gen gaming, could theoretical “upgrade packs” be in our future?

[SolidChamp]

Like most here, Sony revealing their hand with backwards compatibility brought on a huge sigh of relief from myself. It is an essential component that can no longer be ignored and will provide an interesting avenue of focus for console makers and developers alike. I feel like there's a lot to unpack there in terms of possibilities.

One of my greatest curiosities comes in the form of visual and technical upgrades to preexisting games. With so many landmark titles getting refreshed this gen with remakes or remasters, I wondered what the SOP would be going forward. You have a console with the kind of horsepower that could see a substantial bump in frame rate and visual fidelity in even the most technically demanding of games. But how does a developer divert time and resources to deliver a substantial upgrade to a God of War or Red Dead Redemption 2 while making it profitable?

Take RDR2 as an example. I have a copy of the game for PS4 (the lovely Steelbook Edition). I'll be able to play it on PS5. But Rockstar would most likely want to rerelease a PS5/Xbox "Next" version to retail, no? So where does that leave my copy that's playable on my PS5?

Enter the "upgrade pack". $10? $20? Whatever the cost, would this be the most viable way to appease those who already own the game and plan to play it on their new consoles while also getting the technical benefits?

Like DLC, you pay to upgrade your previous-gen copy. Obviously, if you don't already own the game, you buy the PS5/Xbox retail version.

I can't see any other way for this to work without rendering the current gen version completely obsolete. Which seems quite stupid, in my opinion.

 

[Baccus]

I wouldn't mind paying for raytracing patches.

 

[Kaivan]

Why buy when you should get them for free? Look at how a lot of publishers treat remasters on PC (and XBox1 BC), they're free upgrades.

 

[TeenageFBI]

PCs have had free backwards compatibility for decades, with framerate/resolution/IQ upgrades. Not sure why it should be any different on a console that has hardware-based backwards compatibility.

If you're talking about developers actually going back and touching up the games for release on the new console (new textures, graphical features, gameplay tweaks), an upgrade cost should be at their discretion.

 

[SolidChamp]

Why buy when you should get them for free? Look at how a lot of publishers treat remasters on PC (and XBox1 BC), they're free upgrades.

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This isn't a simple patch to fix slight frame rate dips or some shoddy textures. We're talking about downloading a complete visual and technical overhaul that will see the game reap the benefits of the extra horsepower. That could be tens of gb's worth of data.

The man hours that go into making a game better isn't insubstantial.

I don't think such a thing should be free. If my PS4 copy of RDR2 can be technically on par with PS5 retail copies of the same game, I'm happy to pay $20 for that.

 

[CypherSignal]

A handful of early titles on PS4 (and I think XB1?) did this. Battlefield 4, and Assassin's Creed 4 most notably. You bought the PS3 version of the game, and then if you put that into your PS4, you'd make a $10 digital upgrade purchase which, so long as the PS3 disc was in the drive, granted you a license to play the PS4 game.

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

It's not the best timeline but it certainly a lesser evil.

 

[TheYanger]

Why buy when you should get them for free? Look at how a lot of publishers treat remasters on PC (and XBox1 BC), they're free upgrades.

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pc upgrades that do that are generally because the console versions are subsidizing the work. They're free on pc because the pc versions are already almost there usually. If consoles do this too, instead we just won't get upgrades.

 

[SolidChamp]

A handful of early titles on PS4 (and I think XB1?) did this. Battlefield 4, and Assassin's Creed 4 most notably. You bought the PS3 version of the game, and then if you put that into your PS4, you'd make a $10 digital upgrade purchase which, so long as the PS3 disc was in the drive, granted you a license to play the PS4 game.

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This seems economically practical to me.

 

[collige]

Depends on what the pack does. New assets and/or lighting overhauls, sure. Basic backwards compatibility and resolution bump need to be free though.

 

[Hey Please]

Given MS is doing it for free, it has set a precedent. Charging money for soft remasters is an unknown atm. Given Sony's vast library of games, should they tap into PS1 through 4 from day 1, it would be interesting to see whether they can assemble a small team to exclusively do for the most beloved past titles what MS has been doing with its prior 1st & 3rd party releases.

 

[chironex]

Like Skyrim SE? On PC it was free to anybody who owned the original+DLC.

 

[IIFloodyII]

I think most will do the free upgrade if you own it already like with PC updated releases. Sell it to newcomers.

 

[TheGhost]

If you want to give Sony money fine but you should be getting that shit for free

 

[Deleted member 6730]

I don't think anybody is going to pay to make the graphics look better. Nobody cares that much about graphics to do that. (And by nobody I mean people living outside the forum bubble).

 

[Imitation Of Life]

I would pay a smsll fee for a major upgrade on older title. Why should the work be free? Obviously ideally it would be free, but I don't expect that to always hold true. Of it free on one platform(PC) it better be free every where though or I won't buy.

 

[Ra]

PCs have had free backwards compatibility for decades, with framerate/resolution/IQ upgrades. Not sure why it should be any different on a console that has hardware-based backwards compatibility.

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The difference from PC is pretty obvious. You can't exactly buy a more powerful console, boot the game, and simply select higher graphics settings your previous system couldn't handle.

 

[jonjonaug]

PCs have had free backwards compatibility for decades, with framerate/resolution/IQ upgrades. Not sure why it should be any different on a console that has hardware-based backwards compatibility.

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Sony already charges for other things like online play, backgrounds, avatars, and wallpapers. Why wouldn't they charge for this when they have complete control over the ecosystem and can do whatever they want?

 

[Windu]

lol no. it will be free. you don't pay extra if you have a ps4 pro, xbox one x or Top of the line graphics card.

The difference from PC is pretty obvious. You can't exactly buy a more powerful console, boot the game, and simply select higher graphics settings your previous system couldn't handle.

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you literally do that now with a PS4 Pro and Xbox One X.

 

[TeenageFBI]

Sony already charges for other things like online play, backgrounds, avatars, and wallpapers. Why wouldn't they charge for this when they have complete control over the ecosystem and can do whatever they want?

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Of course they can. And I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

It would be bullshit, just like charging for multiplayer.

The difference from PC is pretty obvious. You can't exactly buy a more powerful console, boot the game, and simply select higher graphics settings your previous system couldn't handle.

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Yeah, it's not exactly the same since the higher graphics settings simply aren't included in the original game download. But depending on how backwards compatibility is handled, a game with, say, an unlocked framerate could run at a higher framerate on PS5 with 0 input from the original developer. Might even be able to increase a game's resolution too.

Higher quality assets and new graphics features would require a patch though.

 

[Starlatine]

This isn't a simple patch to fix slight frame rate dips or some shoddy textures.

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If you think "fixing slight frame dips and shoddy textures" is all enhanced BC does, then you have zero clue about it

If you want to educate yourself check the mirrors edge, final fantasy xiii or pretty much almost every og bc patch

 

[Bizzquik]

The question was posed to Take Two during an investor call about backward compatibility - i.e. their ability to resell Red Dead Redemption 2 on next-gen platforms in the same manner they achieved with Grand Theft Auto V.

The CEO of Take Two, Strauss Zelnick, essentially said that gamers are willing to pay for the difference in an upgrade if true effort is put into it by the developers -- and I actually believe that.
I would not be willing to buy some title that is just a PC port with a higher native resolution and framerate. I would be willing to buy a title that adds considerably more new features to go along with quality-of-life improvements...and a higher native resolution and framerate.

We are capable of recognizing a low-effort cash grab when we see it, and the PS5/XboxNext backward compatibility news just raises the bar for what publishers must do to justify a re-purchase. And that's a great thing.

 

[t26]

They would sell it you again by packing some DLC, think Last of Us on Ps4

 

[Kanann]

If that worth the resource (4k-8k texture and such)

But all I want is Bloodborne framerate patch and they are not bother paying for it :D

 

[bsigg]

I mean, they're already building out the higher quality content for PC, it would just be a matter of using smart CDN features to push additional packages to the new console like MS already does. I would be kinda annoyed with having to pay for that.

For BC, something similar to X enhanced patches would be fantastic.

 

[hanshen]

X Enchanced patches are free right now. Why should you pay for it?

 

[Bung Hole]

X Enchanced patches are free right now. Why should you pay for it?

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Nothing is free. The costs for doing this is coming from somewhere.
You'd have to be a bit slow to think that these engineers are sitting there doing these enhanced patches out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

How to find your answer? Change the topic to "How much would you pay for a PS5 patch for Bloodborne?" and see what people say.

 

[hanshen]

Nothing is free. The costs for doing this is coming from somewhere.
You'd have to be a bit slow to think that these engineers are sitting there doing these enhanced patches out of the goodness of their hearts.

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Did I say any of that? I was only stating the fact that X Enhanced titles are free if you own the original game.

 

[Deleted member 135]

Only the most shortsighted and moneygrubbing publishers would ever dare considering charging for "PS5 Patches".



...So expect them from EA games.

 

[Sprat]

Only the most shortsighted and moneygrubbing publishers would ever dare considering charging for "PS5 Patches".



...So expect them from EA games.

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Or the ones who want to pay their staff.

Are you saying if a studio goes on and does all new textures, reworks the lighting engine to add ray tracing in parts and adds 3d audio and maybe reoptimises the games to fully take advantage of the ssd that they Shouldn't be paid for all that time?

 

[Deleted member 135]

Or the ones who want to pay their staff.

Are you saying if a studio goes on and does all new textures, reworks the lighting engine to add ray tracing in parts and adds 3d audio and maybe reoptimises the games to fully take advantage of the ssd that they Shouldn't be paid for all that time?

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No one is going to do all of that outside of first party. At most we will see framerate and resolution bumps. Maybe better draw distances and LOD. But we aren't going to see PS4 games add raytracing et al en masse.

 

[Remo Williams]

This isn't a simple patch to fix slight frame rate dips or some shoddy textures. We're talking about downloading a complete visual and technical overhaul that will see the game reap the benefits of the extra horsepower. That could be tens of gb's worth of data.

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Seems unfeasible. Why would developers and publishers invest significant amounts of time and money into those patches when they can simply offer an upgrade to the already existing next gen remaster? And looking at it from a different angle, if you're going to overhaul a game to such an extent, you'll probably also want to offer it as a standalone next gen remaster to people who don't own the last gen version, which leads us to the basically identical situation, one pretty similar to what we've already seen in some cases (albeit mostly with indie games).

 

[Pyro]

God I hope upgrade packs don't become a thing.

 

[Sprat]

No one is going to do all of that outside of first party. At most we will see framerate and resolution bumps. Maybe better draw distances and LOD. But we aren't going to see PS4 games add raytracing et al en masse.

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I think this is what was implied in the first post though.

Hence why it would /could be a paid option rather than a remaster or to go alongside a remaster.

 

[TheMadTitan]

The difference from PC is pretty obvious. You can't exactly buy a more powerful console, boot the game, and simply select higher graphics settings your previous system couldn't handle.

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As alluded to by Windu, that's what people are doing now with consoles. I wouldn't expect if the PS5/Xbox 4 games are just shipped as essentially PC ports, and then when the Pro/X versions of said consoles come out, users and just jump into the options menu and pump up the graphics and resolution just as people are able to after tossing in a new graphics card.

There's no need to reinvent the wheel. They might hide the more in depth graphics options and just stick with the presets for the consoles, but I don't see why they wouldn't just have it be in the options from the beginning.

 

[Deleted member 1238]

Don't give them any ideas. On Xbox any upgrades via backwards compatibility are completely free. If I had to start paying for those that would be very sad.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

MS have given info to developers to future proof their games, I hope they are doing so. No costs for consumers should be necessary.

 

[Ardiloso]

Thank God Microsoft didn't charge us for X upgrades on Xbox 360 games.
But here we are with people wishing to pay for them.
Mad world.

 

[Deleted member 11626]

What motivation is there for publishers to fund a complete graphical overhaul of an old game? How well do you honestly think this stuff would sell? Not nearly as much as you're thinking, I can assure you of that.

Besides, anybody that wants 98% backwards compatibility with the potential to upgrade games visually (and in other ways) likely has a PC.

Sure, that's not as good as having the dev team go back and redo the entire game...but playing Mass Effect 2 with mods for improved lighting, expanded conversations, A Lot Of Textures (ALOT) and controller support sure makes it all feel like a game that released recently, and not the 10 year old game that it is. And it didn't cost an extra penny. I'm good on paying more for texture pack dlc...one might even argue that this is one of those cases where resources actually are being wasted on an initiative that isn't going to make the money back that was spent.

Thank God Microsoft didn't charge us for X upgrades on Xbox 360 games.
But here we are with people wishing to pay for them.
Mad world.

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It shouldn't surprise me that this board is constantly seeking ways to hand over more money to their favorite corporations...but it still does.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

No I'd never pay for something like that.

 

[Bung Hole]

Did I say any of that? I was only stating the fact that X Enhanced titles are free if you own the original game.

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Sorry, I take back the comment about 'being slow'. Not intend to disrespect. Allow me to rephrase. The engineers working on backwards compatibility are recouping the costs to do so from somewhere. Maybe its through MS services but i strongly doubt these guys are working for free to bring enhanced titles to Xbox One X.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

Why buy when you should get them for free? Look at how a lot of publishers treat remasters on PC (and XBox1 BC), they're free upgrades.

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This.

 

[kikuchiyo]

PCs have had free backwards compatibility for decades, with framerate/resolution/IQ upgrades. Not sure why it should be any different on a console that has hardware-based backwards compatibility.

If you're talking about developers actually going back and touching up the games for release on the new console (new textures, graphical features, gameplay tweaks), an upgrade cost should be at their discretion.

Click to shrink...

There have been plenty of paid upgrades too. I have multiple copies of both X-Wing and TIE Fighter.

 

[Godzilla24]

Microsoft has done a masterful job with backwards compatibility. And the improvements have been free which is astonishing. I can't say the same for their competitors in Sony who want to charge users just for adding trophies to ps2 games. So if Sony had to do work for any upgrade packs, there may definitely be a charge for these improvements.

 

[R1CHO]

Let's see, Sony has done a terrible job at supporting their own develop or published games that launched on PS4 before the Pro was a thing... So I expect nothing but the bare minimum from them. Ps5 will play PS4 games as they are today, that's my bet.

Third party developers won't invest resources to patch old games, the same way they haven't done it now.

Microsoft will keep doing the good software work to wrap old games and run them at higher resolution.

So no, I don't expect anything to change.

 

[Phil me in]

I hope morons don't actually pay for this because it will set a terrible trend. It should be free.

Yeah your game works on ps5 but erm give me ten dollars more to increase the resolution and frame rate.

 

[galv]

I'm not paying for fucking patches.

 

[Z-Brownie]

Actually it is what is happening with the enhanced games for 360 on X, so, already a reallity (for free in xbox case) .

 

[Godzilla24]

I personally don't think Sony has the resources to make these improvements free but I hope I'm proven wrong. Sony really need some pro consumer moves.