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women of era, how do you feel about being "cold approached"?
- Thread starter hydrophilic attack
- Start date
This topic is about approaching women out of the blue with the intent of getting a date
I've seen multiple posts with people (a lot of men too) saying basically "fuck off and never talk to me in public". If I misunderstood those replies then I apologize but they seem pretty cut and dry to me.
There's nothing wrong with an individual taking that attitude; I was just surmising what a society made up of people like that would be like. It was more a joke than anything.
But I can see my opinions on this subject are neither needed nor wanted so I'm just gonna duck out of this thread. My intention was never to offend people with that post.
my general impression is that cold approaches are weirder than ever because online dating is easier and more acceptable than ever. why bother even chancing making people uncomfortable in random situations when you can just meet people on apps where you already have the right expectations on both sides?
If that's the case then I apologize. I took it as a question of social interactions in public in general. If we're only talking about getting hit on then I fucked up.
User Banned (1 Week): Misogyny.
Is being uncomfortable so bad though? Not everything in life has to be comfortable. I could understand it if a girl gets approached all the time it can get annoying though. But does that happen?
I generally like talking to people, but I do get uncomfortable with men who are clearly just approaching me because of romantic/sexual interest. Maybe I would feel differently if a large number of those encounters didn't end negatively. But in reality, they do, so I'd rather just not deal with it all.
For a small but persistent percentage of men a minuscule chance of getting their dick wet is more important than women feeling comfortable existing.
Yep.
I don't typically approach women I don't know without them making it abundantly clear they're down, but I've had success just...talking to them. You know, almost as if they're people.
As with everything else in life, intent and the how count for a lot.
Even dystopian fiction like 1984 has people chatting with strangers. Jesus, dude
It would be a warm approach, meaning that you already know them.
Your reign of terror making women uncomfortable is finally over. The world can now sleep peacefully at night.
Women of Era, how about on election day?
Let's say I'm in line waiting to vote and you're a few people ahead of me... if I walk up to you while you're filling out your ballot (nice hand writing btw I always struggle to fill in my circles completely!!! isn't that so funny), casually brush up against your leg in your polling booth, how do you think that'd go? I'm assuming because we both love democracy (trust me I love all of the issues, I'm very passionate, why else would I be voting) that you'd see that we're fellow travelers on this same cosmic journey and maybe we could get a drink. Plus, I overheard you mention where you live to the poll worker. I seriously live only a couple blocks from you, what are the odds that two lost connections end up at the same random spot on a Tuesday in November and just happen to live mere blocks from one another? I'm walking your way anyway, let's walk together.
What do you mean you're not interested?
Well what the fuck you just told your name to that old crusty fuck sitting at that table and you're not going to tell me your name? What's better about her than me? Why'd you tell her you were independent then? Don't you realize that when you tell A STRANGER that you're independent that most GOOD GUYS LIKE ME take that as a signal that as you're not currently seeing anyone and interested in meeting new people?
Let's say I'm in line waiting to vote and you're a few people ahead of me... if I walk up to you while you're filling out your ballot (nice hand writing btw I always struggle to fill in my circles completely!!! isn't that so funny), casually brush up against your leg in your polling booth, how do you think that'd go? I'm assuming because we both love democracy (trust me I love all of the issues, I'm very passionate, why else would I be voting) that you'd see that we're fellow travelers on this same cosmic journey and maybe we could get a drink. Plus, I overheard you mention where you live to the poll worker. I seriously live only a couple blocks from you, what are the odds that two lost connections end up at the same random spot on a Tuesday in November and just happen to live mere blocks from one another? I'm walking your way anyway, let's walk together.
What do you mean you're not interested?
Well what the fuck you just told your name to that old crusty fuck sitting at that table and you're not going to tell me your name? What's better about her than me? Why'd you tell her you were independent then? Don't you realize that when you tell A STRANGER that you're independent that most GOOD GUYS LIKE ME take that as a signal that as you're not currently seeing anyone and interested in meeting new people?
1. "I would love it to be approached and hit on all day, every day."
As a man, sure. But men lack context. Men have both the physical and psychological power imbalance weigh, sometimes heavily, in their favour. They don't have to deal with people much stronger than them and the possible fallout if their advances are rebuffed. Men are much more likely to commit physical and sexual crimes so if a man was approached by a woman, he doesn't have this fear in the back of his mind that this may end in bodily harm. Not just that, but I'm pretty sure men who would find it exciting at first would get tired of it. Not being able to do anything without the chance of being interrupted is incredibly irritating. Sometimes it's nice to just be left alone.
2. "It's fine if you approach a woman, just read the signals."
This advice should never be given out under any circumstances. You have no way of knowing whether or not the recipient of said advice actually can read signals (and if they're asking, chances are good they can't). To think everyone can read signals as well as you is a horrendous miscalculation and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how dense some people can be. This also comes with the caveat that you actually need to know how to read signals yourself and you haven't just deluded yourself into thinking you're some sort of empath able to read the feelings of every woman you approach. This isn't even talking about how women are conditioned to behave in these situations for their own personal safety (see point 1).
3. "Gosh darn millennials just sitting in their hotel rooms texting. They'll only be happy when they never have to interact with anyone ever again!"
Calm down and eat some avocado toast. It's good for you, promise. This is either a misunderstanding of the topic at hand, or a subtle attempt at manipulating the conversation to grounds more easily defensible. So let me disillusion everyone. This isn't about talking to people in public. You want to talk to people in public, go for it. Men, women, gender-fluids, cats, dogs, furries, whatever. You can talk to people. The point is do not go up to a person (women especially) and strike up an artificial conversation with the intention of then asking them out. It makes them uncomfortable. This isn't an attack on socializing. Women don't need to be constantly harassed by men who want to get in their pants (or just want to go for coffee for the nice guys out there with more noble intentions). And I'm sure there are some women who don't want to be approached at all, regardless of if you were going to ask them out or not? Why? Because it's hard to tell the difference between men who want to have a casual conversation and those with ulterior motives. Unlike those select guys from point 2, women aren't empaths who can read the feelings of every man who approaches them so it's hard to tell their intentions. It's a lot easier to just avoid contact with people in public at all then risk running into a guy who could pose a threat. And listen, I'm not a woman nor a data scientist, but I'm willing to bet men who approach women to strike up a conversation are more likely to propostion them then they are to just walk away after they finished whatever random chat they wanted to have. Oh and for the record, some people just do want to be left alone. And that's fine. Nobody owes you their time, not even...
4."People at work are fair game."
That waitress who was so nice to you? They're paid for that. If they weren't nice to you, they wouldn't have a job. Also, they're paid shitty money and a lot of their income comes from tips which people give more often when the service is friendly. Let them do their damn job. It's hard enough dealing with annoying bosses and entitled customers without having to reject self-proclaimed suitors. The worst thing about hitting on a waitress is that they can't even tell you to fuck off. They do that and there goes their tip and a possible lecture from a boss because they were rude to a customer. Don't put them in a situation like that.
As a man, sure. But men lack context. Men have both the physical and psychological power imbalance weigh, sometimes heavily, in their favour. They don't have to deal with people much stronger than them and the possible fallout if their advances are rebuffed. Men are much more likely to commit physical and sexual crimes so if a man was approached by a woman, he doesn't have this fear in the back of his mind that this may end in bodily harm. Not just that, but I'm pretty sure men who would find it exciting at first would get tired of it. Not being able to do anything without the chance of being interrupted is incredibly irritating. Sometimes it's nice to just be left alone.
2. "It's fine if you approach a woman, just read the signals."
This advice should never be given out under any circumstances. You have no way of knowing whether or not the recipient of said advice actually can read signals (and if they're asking, chances are good they can't). To think everyone can read signals as well as you is a horrendous miscalculation and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how dense some people can be. This also comes with the caveat that you actually need to know how to read signals yourself and you haven't just deluded yourself into thinking you're some sort of empath able to read the feelings of every woman you approach. This isn't even talking about how women are conditioned to behave in these situations for their own personal safety (see point 1).
3. "Gosh darn millennials just sitting in their hotel rooms texting. They'll only be happy when they never have to interact with anyone ever again!"
Calm down and eat some avocado toast. It's good for you, promise. This is either a misunderstanding of the topic at hand, or a subtle attempt at manipulating the conversation to grounds more easily defensible. So let me disillusion everyone. This isn't about talking to people in public. You want to talk to people in public, go for it. Men, women, gender-fluids, cats, dogs, furries, whatever. You can talk to people. The point is do not go up to a person (women especially) and strike up an artificial conversation with the intention of then asking them out. It makes them uncomfortable. This isn't an attack on socializing. Women don't need to be constantly harassed by men who want to get in their pants (or just want to go for coffee for the nice guys out there with more noble intentions). And I'm sure there are some women who don't want to be approached at all, regardless of if you were going to ask them out or not? Why? Because it's hard to tell the difference between men who want to have a casual conversation and those with ulterior motives. Unlike those select guys from point 2, women aren't empaths who can read the feelings of every man who approaches them so it's hard to tell their intentions. It's a lot easier to just avoid contact with people in public at all then risk running into a guy who could pose a threat. And listen, I'm not a woman nor a data scientist, but I'm willing to bet men who approach women to strike up a conversation are more likely to propostion them then they are to just walk away after they finished whatever random chat they wanted to have. Oh and for the record, some people just do want to be left alone. And that's fine. Nobody owes you their time, not even...
4."People at work are fair game."
That waitress who was so nice to you? They're paid for that. If they weren't nice to you, they wouldn't have a job. Also, they're paid shitty money and a lot of their income comes from tips which people give more often when the service is friendly. Let them do their damn job. It's hard enough dealing with annoying bosses and entitled customers without having to reject self-proclaimed suitors. The worst thing about hitting on a waitress is that they can't even tell you to fuck off. They do that and there goes their tip and a possible lecture from a boss because they were rude to a customer. Don't put them in a situation like that.
that's fair too. i don't mean to say that i think guys should stop doing it altogether. but maybe only do it if you have a more solid in than "i think you're really cute, and i wanted to ask you out". like, if she's wearing a shirt with that references your favourite pop culture thing and you can approach on that, cool. if she's in a night club or bar, cool. if there is something legitimately so uniquely striking about her that she is a 1 in a million catch for you in particular, cool. but if this is just your general method of pick up, then i'd strongly advise using dating apps. they just work out much better for all parties.
Yeah... this is from the OP:
so a discussion came up in the dating thread about making "cold approaches" on women going about their day
in non-PUA terms, what this means is striking up conversations with random women you happen to see on public transport, at the shop, in the town square, in the library or whatever, with the intention of getting a date, or at least a phone number.
To be clear, your apology seems sincere and I have no issues accepting it, so this isn't intended to single you out, but people not reading OPs and posting their take is a very common problem here so I want to really encourage people to, well, read the damn OPs. :)in non-PUA terms, what this means is striking up conversations with random women you happen to see on public transport, at the shop, in the town square, in the library or whatever, with the intention of getting a date, or at least a phone number.
Now imagine you're not attracted to 95% of them, and they don't care if you say no, they don't care if you were busy, they don't care that you're already seeing someone or already married, and they make really gross comments. And imagine you can't go a single day without it happening. All the time. It literally never ends.
Be careful what you wish for.
Yes, they gave me direct feedback which I have read and acknowledge. The thread was moving quite quickly at one point and I overlooked a few posts.
What does that have to do with my exchange with excelsiorlef that you just quoted? I was clarifying to excelsiorlef why I was asking for specific feedback, due to our specific exchange. That has nothing to do with other people's feedback.
I only told people to read the thread who were literally misrepresenting my posts based on assumptions or ignoring posts I had made previously ( I can link these if you want me to?), so I think your reply is unfair again and I really am confused why you chose that specific comment to reply to.
I don't do it myself as a habit. I have done it maybe a half dozen times in my lifetime.
I have a lot of experience in the industry, and my experience goes against excelsiorlef's claim that "9 out of 10 times it's a bad idea". I wanted to know what they were basing this on, and it turns out they were basing it on generalized experience. This is fine, but I was talking specifically as my experience here has shown me different, I wanted to discover how close to the standard my experience was.
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Every time I've made new friends or found a date as an adult it was through hobbies, mutual friends, social events/parties, work, online dating or different social circles of all of the above colliding at an event/night out, leading to meeting friends-of-friends etc. Generally some kind of shared reason to be in the same space rather than randomly talking to someone who has something else to do.
Sure, I've made small talk in queues etc, but not this 'cold approach' thing. It seems incredibly forward, highly likely to be annoying/unwanted for the other party, to the benefit of one party more than the other in terms of a numbers game, not to mention the power imbalance/potential threat aspect where one side has a small chance of getting a date with someone they find physically attractive and the other is weighing up the odds of how psychotic the approaching guy is. Not everyone appreciates it.
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Is it really so much to ask that y'all just read the responses from women and adjust your actions accordingly? Nobody asked for the men of era to recount that one time they cold approached somebody and it worked out or for you to unnecessarily berate women because "society just ain't what it used to be, I'll tell you what"
Just read the responses and react accordingly. That's it. It's not difficult.
Man I'm with you on it being difficult for me to approach people in general, but this response just screams #NotAllMen.
Just read the responses and react accordingly. That's it. It's not difficult.
Man I'm with you on it being difficult for me to approach people in general, but this response just screams #NotAllMen.
You're right, we need to change the culture around men and taking rejection.
Brah, tell me about it. The last time someone tried to talk to me on the subway it ended with him asking me if I knew our lord and savior Jesus Christ. Otherwise it's just business.
Man... if a woman talked to me first I would be so fucking shook. I don't talk to people anyway tho. I'm just quiet 5ever.
Genuine question, how do you let someone know you're interested? I ask because I've had girls get mad because I didn't ask them out. Like I'm supposed to know?
It's not hard to understand that most people don't go to work to get hit on. You're utterly obsessed with my turn of phrase my lord.
https://www.businessinsider.com/things-bartenders-want-to-tell-customers-2017-11
https://talesofthecocktail.com/in-depth/When-customers-hit-on-the-Bartenders
https://medium.com/@krisgage/how-to-pick-up-the-bartender-749de6bba996
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...b6c00c90481_story.html?utm_term=.c46896da870f
https://www.buzzfeed.com/susanematthews/5-reasons-you-shouldnt-hit-on-a-bartender
https://morgantownnightlife.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/the-double-standard/
https://www.salon.com/2016/02/01/server_not_a_sex_toy/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/kbkwdz/just-stop-trying-to-hit-on-your-bartender
https://thoughtcatalog.com/charlotte-haab/2014/06/10-reasons-not-to-hit-on-the-bartender/
https://brobible.com/life/article/never-do-at-bar-by-bartender/
13. Don't hit on the bartenders
"I'm here to work, not date. Besides in a bar full of drunk and available people, why would you want to hit on the only sober one?"?NoPhilosophy
https://www.eonline.com/ca/news/585083/bartenders-reveal-24-things-you-should-never-ever-do-at-bars
http://blog.totallynotmalware.net/?p=99
https://www.allbartenders.com/10-bartending-commandments/
https://www.w42st.com/article/117hyv7y6hgpq/love-me-bartender
https://www.thetalko.com/18-female-bartenders-reveal-their-abnormal-work-scenarios/5/?v=8
https://www.thestar.com/life/2016/06/21/when-hitting-your-local-pub-dont-become-a-trapper.html
https://www.narcity.com/ca/on/toron...sure-no-toronto-bartender-will-ever-serve-you
Your approach to me ITT has been really off.
1. I asked about approaching people in a specific situation.
2. You responded with a claim that the majority of the time that was a bad idea in that situation.
3. As my own experience is vastly different to this claim, and as my own experience is quite extensive here, I asked you to back that claim up with something directly related.
4. Since then the ONLY reason I have "focused" on "9 out of 10" is because YOU keep bringing it up as something I'm obsessed with...
Like, that post you just quoted literally and reasonably broke this all down and explained my "obsession".
My lord, indeed.
As for your extensive reply, thank you for that, THAT part is actually useful.
The fact is it is difficult to approach. And really even people going for the cold approach usually know there's a high percentage they're gonna get rejected.
Most guys don't even try to do it from my experience, and I'm talking like so-called "jocks" too, not just video game fans.
Like I don't know where all these guys who cold approach randomly come from, from my experience, I've seen maybe like 1-2% of men who have the gall to cold approach outside of a nightclub, and I'm talking guys who are so-called "jocks" or whatever.
You don't do it as a habit? That makes it fine? In the thread we've got women saying not to and you agree with that stance, yet "I've done it half a dozen times". Honestly how many times did it work? Yes Excelsiorlef is using generalisations as nobody is going to be able to match your anecdotal opinions to the contrary. Even with mine you acknowledged it then justified it as it's not a habit. This isn't social smoking where you can just pick and choose when you stop.
If you have multiple people telling you don't harass women at work it isn't something you can argue away with "my experiences don't match at all". Your experiences aren't absolute fact, you should be able to acknowledge that.
Yeah, if you're at a bus stop or waiting around somewhere, hanging out at a bar, etc, it's ok to strike up a conversation. I've even made friends this way, and yes met a couple women who I later asked out when there seemed to be some mutual interest.
But there's a difference between that and approaching someone out of the blue with an agenda of convincing them to go out with you or go home with you. That's inherently menacing.
I gave you the common sense fact that it's a place of work and generally people don't like getting picked up at work.
To which you handwaived and jumped right back to my 9 out of 10 comment.
So no you don't go back to it because of me.
Yes sure in a nightclub, but I think if you're going to a nightclub or bar, you do so understanding you're going to a social venue where social interaction is part of the experience.
I don't know how many men are randomly drunk in public settings with the intention of striking up conversation with women.
OP
OP
It's not hard to understand that most people don't go to work to get hit on. You're utterly obsessed with my turn of phrase my lord.
https://www.businessinsider.com/things-bartenders-want-to-tell-customers-2017-11
https://talesofthecocktail.com/in-depth/When-customers-hit-on-the-Bartenders
https://medium.com/@krisgage/how-to-pick-up-the-bartender-749de6bba996
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...b6c00c90481_story.html?utm_term=.c46896da870f
https://www.buzzfeed.com/susanematthews/5-reasons-you-shouldnt-hit-on-a-bartender
https://morgantownnightlife.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/the-double-standard/
https://www.salon.com/2016/02/01/server_not_a_sex_toy/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
https://munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/kbkwdz/just-stop-trying-to-hit-on-your-bartender
https://thoughtcatalog.com/charlotte-haab/2014/06/10-reasons-not-to-hit-on-the-bartender/
https://brobible.com/life/article/never-do-at-bar-by-bartender/
https://www.eonline.com/ca/news/585083/bartenders-reveal-24-things-you-should-never-ever-do-at-bars
http://blog.totallynotmalware.net/?p=99
https://www.allbartenders.com/10-bartending-commandments/
https://www.w42st.com/article/117hyv7y6hgpq/love-me-bartender
https://www.thetalko.com/18-female-bartenders-reveal-their-abnormal-work-scenarios/5/?v=8
https://www.thestar.com/life/2016/06/21/when-hitting-your-local-pub-dont-become-a-trapper.html
https://www.narcity.com/ca/on/toron...sure-no-toronto-bartender-will-ever-serve-you
haha damn that's quite an extensive list of resources
i'd say, based on this, it's fair to say there's an overwhelming consensus among nearly everyone working those jobs
Even the Bro Bible, the Bro Bible, says don't.
And those that say if you must leave your number on the receipt at the end which is perfectly not aggressive and very much not really the type of asking out that there's an issue with.
excelsiorlef bringin' the receipts. THANK YOU. I was gonna come in here with a "9/10 bartenders is, frankly, way too low given my knowledge and the accounts I've read" but I didn't have to so instead I'm givin' some appreciation to the work.
Yes, it happens.
Also, "not everything in life has to be comfortable" is a shitty justification when you are looking to justify making someone uncomfortable. This isn't a case of saying that "sometimes life is hard," this is about specific behavior that you are responsible for. If you are looking to sacrifice someone else's comfort or ability to feel safe in a situation for your benefit, that's a shitty thing to do.