It's got nothing to do with whether I like PVP or not. How many times do people have to get kicked in the nuts before they get the message?
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World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth|OT| War Mode Enabled!
- Thread starter Tachya
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Dual spec has been in the game since Wrath, and covered two different playstyles easily since Cataclysm. Talent swapping was the only area that would be tweaked and has been in the game since Cataclysm, but found increased use post-Mists with the streamlined talent system. Swapping between different specilizations and talents on a boss by boss basis was part of the game for a very long time and was part of the strategy involved with approaching different encounters. Dust and tomes. Increasingly systems have been piled on to prevent this, but hearing the philosophy verbally defended that they want to shackle people to a single single specilization and talent choices within it was one of the more disappointing moments to me regarding the future of WoW's game design.
Have fun with whatever you're doing, bud. Ya won't bait me no more. :P
Lol, okay. Keep being mad at PVP being trash when it continues being trash then, I guess.
I think changing specs in this game is super easy. Yep. Having to get a few pieces of gear per spec to enable you to fill multiple roles or maximize output on an encounter to encounter basis, that is something that should require extra effort for. I think they could still add another avenue to get high ilvl azerite gear. Before you get that gear it's not like you're completely screwed, you just cannot have the best traits. Just gotta accept that trying to fill multiple roles is not effortless and has a cost to your output. It's still super easy, once you accept that you're not going to do everything the best of the best, until you get that convenience of switching difference azerite armor pieces.
The game is built for all types of players and someone who plays a single spec shouldn't be so disadvantaged simply because of their inability to change roles on the fly. I know people will take this their own way, but I think this is done because role swapping is super valuable to raids and not every class or player wants to role or spec swap. I sort of see it this way. If you're playing a druid who can tank, rdps, mdps, and heal, you're basically playing 4 different classes at the click of a button. But if you're playing a mage, you're always rdps no matter what spec changes you make. I am glad they've made playing multiple roles for the druid easier over time. But you shouldn't make it so easy for the druid to the point that a single spec or role player feels forced to play multiple specs or roles to max out their output as well. I don't think it's ever been about stopping people from playing multiple specs, but just forcing you to put in a certain amount of extra effort (and lets be honest, many gear slots translate between multiple specs well) to really maximize your output on every spec you play.
The game is built for all types of players and someone who plays a single spec shouldn't be so disadvantaged simply because of their inability to change roles on the fly. I know people will take this their own way, but I think this is done because role swapping is super valuable to raids and not every class or player wants to role or spec swap. I sort of see it this way. If you're playing a druid who can tank, rdps, mdps, and heal, you're basically playing 4 different classes at the click of a button. But if you're playing a mage, you're always rdps no matter what spec changes you make. I am glad they've made playing multiple roles for the druid easier over time. But you shouldn't make it so easy for the druid to the point that a single spec or role player feels forced to play multiple specs or roles to max out their output as well. I don't think it's ever been about stopping people from playing multiple specs, but just forcing you to put in a certain amount of extra effort (and lets be honest, many gear slots translate between multiple specs well) to really maximize your output on every spec you play.
I don't see the systems that are piled on to prevent it, honestly it looks to me like they're making it easier all the time.
From, the dual spec level requirement reduction and cost reduction from Wrath -> Cata, the introduction of Tomes in MoP, the Dynamic Loot in WoD, the free spec flexibility in Legion, the reduction of necessary gear in BFA, every expansion seems to be making it objectively easier to play multiple specs.
Ion's statement that "Someone that is dedicated to a spec should have a small advantage over someone who is constantly switching" doesn't seem like a condemnation of the idea of switching specs, or a shackling of anyone to anything. It seems like a game design choice to make people who play one spec with all of their WoW time not feel like they're suckers. To me, and maybe it's just my perspective, it seems that the barrier to playing multiple specs is smaller than ever, which is a good thing.
I'm still convinced that they were forced to rush it out early. Especially with his comments about the new focus on content pacing. Not that extra time in the oven could have totally fixed the Azerite system.
I don't buy anything he or his team say.
Ion is a bullshit artist.
Every one of his answers is a misdirection, non answer or some other bullshit PR speak to avoid addressing serious problems with the game.
Someone asks a question about Shaman improvements and literally all he has to do is start his "answer" with a sigh to know it's a "nope fuck shamans" answer and it's going to be a whole load of nonsense.
I have actually lost count the amount of times Blizzard says shit like "We have to be better" "your feedback is valuable" or other pointless terms because it's all horse shit. They don't listen, they're out of touch and the cycle repeats itself endlessly. Like a year ago they said they need to be more active in the community but it never happened. Nothing ever happens, they just calm peoples nerves with their PR speak bullshit and then repeat the same mistakes they always make.
I honestly don't even know why they do the Q&A's, they never answer hard hitting questions like why we can't have vendors for the Mythic and PvP cache, PvP vendors, how they feel about the garbage ass GCD change, etc.
btw got a 395 titanforged belt with socket tonight from M+. totally deserved btw and not at all unfair to the other people that were in the run that they get 370 gear.
I just want them to talk about how the loot system is a fucking disaster outside of raids. Titanforging is awful game design and needs to be removed, weekly caches being a slot machine is awful design and needs to be changed.
I think some of his answers are totally defensible and sometimes embarrassing (in the sense that he has to explain some basic solid game design theory to questions that are obviously just players whining about something -- aka, he deals with a lot of crap questions in addition to the hard-hitting good ones).
Also, the problem of RNG loot isn't unique to WoW or to BFA...right? I mean, shit. Look at Diablo, or any other loot-focused game.
Also, the problem of RNG loot isn't unique to WoW or to BFA...right? I mean, shit. Look at Diablo, or any other loot-focused game.
RNG loot isn't a full problem. I've never had an issue with RNG loot from raids or dungeons as that's always been the design. I don't know why people keep making this point.
The problem I have is the complete and utter lack of player choice in how they gear. I have no agency, no control whatsoever over what gear I get and when. They previously had good systems with vendors and tokens in previous expansions which, while they had their flaws, allowed players to plan and choose gear if they get bad luck.
Now you're at the mercy of RNG for literally everything. Most notably Azerite. Gearing doesn't feel good or satisfying at all in this game any more.
No choice
No Azerite from M+
"Bad Luck Protection" is complete horseshit
Chances to get no upgrades from caches is way too high
They deny it, but everything in modern WoW is designed to keep you playing longer far more obviously and cycnically than before.
The problem I have is the complete and utter lack of player choice in how they gear. I have no agency, no control whatsoever over what gear I get and when. They previously had good systems with vendors and tokens in previous expansions which, while they had their flaws, allowed players to plan and choose gear if they get bad luck.
Now you're at the mercy of RNG for literally everything. Most notably Azerite. Gearing doesn't feel good or satisfying at all in this game any more.
No choice
No Azerite from M+
"Bad Luck Protection" is complete horseshit
Chances to get no upgrades from caches is way too high
They deny it, but everything in modern WoW is designed to keep you playing longer far more obviously and cycnically than before.
I hear ya. I guess that's all true.
I feel less impacted by it b/c I don't really care all that much anymore about the specifics as long as I see my numbers go up over time after putting effort in. I'm playing so much more for the broader experience of fun in dungeons and raids and less about min/maxing.
I think they're adding Azerite gear to M+...no?
And aren't Azerite traits in themselves a choice? I kind of dig being able to choose from several ways to customize my shit, again, disregarding the need to min/max.
The way it seems to me, Azerite Gear is a messy AF complication for min/max raiders who just want to figure out what the best shit is and how to get at it the fastest. Warforging and TItanforging have messed up that simming/min/max culture, too. But I'm kind of sitting here going, "fine by me"? Game seems more boring to me if you can just check a site to figure out the best shit instantly, and then zero in on it and farm for it and then that's it, you're the strongest you can be. Am I the only one?
I feel less impacted by it b/c I don't really care all that much anymore about the specifics as long as I see my numbers go up over time after putting effort in. I'm playing so much more for the broader experience of fun in dungeons and raids and less about min/maxing.
I think they're adding Azerite gear to M+...no?
And aren't Azerite traits in themselves a choice? I kind of dig being able to choose from several ways to customize my shit, again, disregarding the need to min/max.
The way it seems to me, Azerite Gear is a messy AF complication for min/max raiders who just want to figure out what the best shit is and how to get at it the fastest. Warforging and TItanforging have messed up that simming/min/max culture, too. But I'm kind of sitting here going, "fine by me"? Game seems more boring to me if you can just check a site to figure out the best shit instantly, and then zero in on it and farm for it and then that's it, you're the strongest you can be. Am I the only one?
I'm with you. I like Ion and how communicative the WoW team has been since Legion. I think most of the answers they give in these Q&A are clear and logical.
It's not that I think Blizzard is perfect at this. For example, I think the Lore Azerite response (https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769060102?page=2#post-24) was an example of bad fan communication.
But Ion's communication here I like. They seem really open about their thinking and plans and I appreciate the effort.
Right now i am at one of the last quests of Horde campaign trying to turn in the "Life held Hostage" one which is bugged since launch, if one eventually kills the target faster than coded. Simple things that were reported yet remain unfixed because of ...reasons?!
The level of incompetence is often very high with this expansion.
The level of incompetence is often very high with this expansion.
Ion was promoted to director a couple months after Legion shipped, I believe. Hard to know who is responsible for what or how far along things were in the pipeline as you don't really get information like that out of Blizzard. You do have the history of the original creative team laying most of the groundwork for Wrath before moving on, but that was a decade ago.
Still, regardless of what Ion is or isn't responsible for, I'm amazed there isn't one person at this company who couldn't look at the Azerite system and say "hey... this is horrible".
Also, the interview was annoying. I agree that communication is good, I liked when Ghostcrawler used to ramble to us directly (until they told him to stop) but being told that it is OK for them to kick a game out the door months early with multiple classes reeling because it's "good enough" is like the least Blizzard thing I've ever heard.
I dunno, my main take away is that BfA doesn't feel like a Blizzard game. Even as dopey as Cataclysm was, it still felt like a Blizzard product. Nothing in BfA gels, it just feels cheap, rushed and designed by people who literally do not understand how an RPG works.
Still, regardless of what Ion is or isn't responsible for, I'm amazed there isn't one person at this company who couldn't look at the Azerite system and say "hey... this is horrible".
Also, the interview was annoying. I agree that communication is good, I liked when Ghostcrawler used to ramble to us directly (until they told him to stop) but being told that it is OK for them to kick a game out the door months early with multiple classes reeling because it's "good enough" is like the least Blizzard thing I've ever heard.
I dunno, my main take away is that BfA doesn't feel like a Blizzard game. Even as dopey as Cataclysm was, it still felt like a Blizzard product. Nothing in BfA gels, it just feels cheap, rushed and designed by people who literally do not understand how an RPG works.
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I'm pretty impartial when it comes to whoever is in charge or becomes the face of the game. In the end they are always on the receiving end of the fanbase and for that I don't envy them, even if it's partly their own fault at times. It's not a job I'd want.
Does anyone else get the impression that to a certain degree there are two WoW teams at Blizzard? i.e. While one was working on Legion, the other was working on BfA. Now the Legion team is working on the next expansion.
This is just speculation on my part, but to a certain degree it would explain differences in how the expansions feel.
This is just speculation on my part, but to a certain degree it would explain differences in how the expansions feel.
I think BfA is Ion real first expansion. Yes, he was director a little after Legion released, but remember almost all of patches are planned out months to years in advanced.
I think we are seeing Ion vision and to me it doesn't look good.
The accusations of an expansion being the "B Team" has been used before. I think WoD was when it was said quite often. Likely Blizzard shifts around resources to various projects depending what's in the pipeline. So there have probably been multiple "teams" of people working on the game at various points.
I've gotten two 370 pieces azerite pieces for different parts. Yet I only feel disappointment since I only the worst trait for Resto druid that requires my clunky mushroom and a spot healing to reward spot healing. The rest of traits are only really number increases. I really don't have any enjoyment of the system just apathy or contempt.
Literally annoys me more than anything else this expansion... Why would you do that!? Fix the damn appearance menu!
Who, uh...Who is this pirate ghost just hangin' with Vol'jin??
DID I MISS SOMETHING?!
Someone just used an item, right? This is a goof?
Are you revered with Zandalar?
Yes.
Or...maybe not I don't remember. I've done all the shit the the ashes and I killed ghuun for the quest. I don't care about spoilers.
Yeah okay I figured it had to be something, I just had never seen it before. And the placement made me balk. I think if I'd seen it anywhere else I'd have written it off as a toy or something without a second thought haha.
And that's the end of my time. I'm nearly exalted with every faction (am with Honorbound and Zandalari) and my alliance character made a dent in her gearing but the grind is just too much for me at this point. Have 2 tokens saved up for when 8.1 hits so I guess I'll be back by then. We expecting that to drop just before or during Blizzcon? I can't imagine they'd want to wait till after since I'm sure they'd rather talk about 8.2 during Blizzcon itself.
No, that's mostly just tied to Broken Shore and Armies of Legionfall.
The reason Legion was so rich with content is because Blizzard added the Diablo team to work on Legion. Now that the team is busy working on Diablo 4, BFA was left with a skeleton crew.
Yeah, that's not true at all. While D4 got rebooted in 2015, the diablo team was absolutely not developing Legion. Now, the Diablo team may have offered/been asked for input on certain features (like world quests), there is no proof the Diablo team helped make Legion.
You got any actual sources for this or are you just talking out of your ass? Serious question.
I'm willing to bet they announce 2 allied races Blizzcon along with a tease of 8.2. For better or worse it's the most hype/discussion maker in BFA.
I don't buy the whole 2 team thing or diablo stuff, which I never saw a real source. BFA isn't content starved but the content is poorly done and needed more time in the oven.
The reason why Legion was so polished was probably because WoD didn't take that much resources after 6.0
Figured out what i was doing wrong, i thought the quest line started in the class hall, but everyone at deliverance point had quests waiting for me.
Also is deliverance point different for every class? cus thats rad
Odds are they did, just not early enough, but they had a a release date that wasn't going to be moved for anything. The way they talk about Azerite now is basically "We want the traits to be close enough as to not really matter, but we still want you to have to re-earn stuff you already have because Azerite Power is our alternative progression system this expansion." That's way different from how they used to speak about it. But they had already devoted a ton of hours to it and they were stuck with it.
We do know that the teams within Blizzard are pretty flexible, so I wouldn't be too surprised if there were designers floating around giving input on how to extend the lifecycle of content in Legion the way that they did for Diablo 3, and I'm sure the artists just work on whatever interests them. Legion was probably an all hands on deck affair to fix the game after WoD almost killed it, but that just means pulling talent from other teams onto the project rather than having the whole company stop what they were doing.
So yeah, no Diablo "team" ended up working on Legion, because that just doesn't make sense.
I know reddit is frequently seen as a negativity hivemind but, well, where there's smoke there's fire. I saw a post that i could definitely relate to where someone who has played since vanilla basically said that this is the first time they have ever felt like unsubbing due to actually disliking the game versus run of the mill burnout. I still play with some long-time players and it's a sentiment that some of them have echoed.
Oh I'm not saying there aren't any legitimate criticisms or discussions happening, there definitely are. The problem is - as usual - it's getting buried under mountains of hyperbole from other people saying shit like "clearly Blizz have given up on the game" or "clearly Blizzard doesn't care about WoW anymore". Or just a lot of talk about how BFA was "rushed", with very shaky evidence to support that theory.
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