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Tachya

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
On one hand I'm kind of curious to see how far they go down with the Sylvanas (and/or Player character for the horde) playing out N'zoth's plan....

But on the other hand, the other lines by Sylvanas/Anduin absolutely do not give me any confidence for them handling this narrative even remotely well.

Also...



....We're gonna have another item squish next Xpac. I won't say LFR was a mistake, but if this is the result, the item levels are going to be out of controoooool by the time we hit endgame.

I think there's numerous design philosophy issues right now, and while I can't outright call LFR a mistake, I think we have one difficulty too many for raids right now. It made more sense before the in-game premade group finder, but with it and how brainless it has become while offering okayish rewards (that are outclassed by even more brainless content tbh lately), it's just...not good.

Also, the whole Q&A today would've filled my bingo card completely. When they now think the concept of a PvP vendor and finding such a vendor in the world is too much for their playerbase, they really must be catering to absolute morons who don't even know how to use a search engine or ask others for help. That just turns off people with 2 brain cells to rub together. And that was the type of answer to pretty much everything in the Q&A except for extreme softball questions of no real consequence. So I dunno if the designers are just BAD, or we're being lampshaded so hard for ulterior reasons they can't ever admit to. Some fixes aren't even difficult to come up with -- saw someone suggest a solution for PvP vendors being back would be to mail characters or pop up some other notification alerting players to where the vendor would be. But of course even that's TOO HARD apparently...

Either way, something's got to give.
 

Rokam

Member
Oct 29, 2017
186
Do Kill 25 Horde quest get 400 cloak, do Timewalking get 385 cloak. Come on out of every item in the new raid.... Blizzard trolling hard.
 

TiredGamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,815
The problem with the inflation is not just the 15 item-levels, it's also the increase of content tiers necessitating more item-levels to make those upgrades feel significant between them. You now have 2 additional dungeon tiers at endgame as well as 3 additional raid tiers for each raid. You're looking at upwards of 300 item-levels across a single expansion, or in other words: every expansion is now Legion levels of inflation. BfA may have began with mid-Wrath stats but it's going to end with everybody in mid-Mists gear, an entire two expansions of power.
 

BolognaOni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
159
Maybe I'm missing something, but why does the number of difficulty levels define the step between tiers? The two gear-level "ticks" between tiers seems to be more about just having new heroic loot being better than old Mythic loot, so that guilds who aren't good enough to run the new Mythic right away have some upgrade path in the meantime (and true for Heroic/Normal as well). Possibly the size of the ticks could be adjusted a bit, but I think two ticks per raid is a good philosophy.

LFR seems especially bad right now, but it also seems particularly irrelevant. In this expansion, with a bit of RNG you can basically be at heroic ilvl (or better) halfway through a raid tier doing nothing other than trivial content. By the time LFR is even fully released, anyone playing regularly should mostly outgear it already. In the past LFR criticism was always countered with "but it's really popular!" I wonder if that's still the case.

I don't think warfronts have worked out well at all. Maybe a heroic mode will help, but right now they're not really interesting to me. I feel like they know it, and have attached unreasonably good rewards to them to increase participation (and at this stage of a patch for example, the guaranteed heroic-level loot makes them basically a must-do event).
 
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Tachya

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
Normal mode doesn't serve much of a purpose with a sufficiently difficult LFR, so to compensate they made LFR even more brain dead on rails for all but a few outlier fights. And especially after the introduction of the in-game premade group finder which was a cheap rip of oQueue and sorta displaced OpenRaid as well. But that's sort of the other way in that it made LFR more useless compared to normal.

Anyway, no matter which way you cut it I think there's at least one difficulty tier too many right now and it only makes sense to cut from the bottom two.

Especially since they've been forcing 4 full difficulty tiers for each raid for ages which doesn't inspire many people who complete the easier difficulties through the end boss to potentially repeat the same content another 2 or even 3 times, with increasing skill and dedication required for the same loot just at a higher ilvl, etc. Mythic only gets consolation titles, achieves, and mounts sometimes, usually weighted from the final boss now.
 

Bregor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,477
If you cut the bottom two difficulty levels, you would make raiding content inaccessible for the vast majority of WoW players. It makes more sense to cut Mythic difficulty, it is used by the fewest players. (Not that I am promoting that, just pointing out that it is the most disposable).
 
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Tachya

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
If you cut the bottom two difficulty levels, you would make raiding content inaccessible for the vast majority of WoW players. It makes more sense to cut Mythic difficulty, it is used by the fewest players. (Not that I am promoting that, just pointing out that it is the most disposable).

Not both the bottom two, one of the bottom 2. Sorry if that wasn't clear enough. Hybridize that level of difficulty so there's 3 total difficulties. (Dungeons are also pretty out of hand now too I think but that's a separate story.)

Or just make LFR an actual tourist mode like it was originally intended that doesn't offer any gear or whatever, but enough people would cry/have cried foul over that situation so...

Gear as the primary motivator for all content is just bad though to be honest, and having it fly out of every system's orifices doesn't help.

The current gear situation is a result of Blizzard caving in to the population that wants something that they don't actually need, which is also a result of pushing raiding and other content on people that has historically had a higher barrier to entry as the only stuff "worth doing" on people that wouldn't have otherwise participated. In doing so they opened up a pandora's jar (it's actually a jar, box is a mistranslation, sorry but it's my snobby historical fact for the day!)

So instead of coming up with alternate meaningful activities for people that couldn't raid or do other high-end endgame stuff, they just watered down what they did have instead for an extremely low lowest common denominator. Mythic raids and rated PvP, etc. are a bone for the top end of players to chew on compared to the other stuff they've experimented with. Admittedly, Mythic raid encounters I'm sure take up a fair portion of dev time too, but that's mitigated by recycling everything else involved from the other difficulties and adding some extras plus tweaking numbers up.

Gear is a crutch now because Blizzard apparently can't think of enough other things, or they want to judiciously ration out any other reward mechanisms they have at their disposal. It's much easier to move a couple numbers around, slapped on the same model with a different tint or minor extra flourish if you're lucky. Gear just happens to be the most visible and obvious reward to give people to increase character power though so…that's what we end up with.

It's probably a cost-cutting measure as much as it is anything else, but enough people have caught on and it's backfiring. At the very least in Legion there was the long term chase of meaningful legendaries (which wasn't great either until they finally put the vendor in, ironically enough.)

Anyway that's my rant and you may disagree, but it is one major factor that I think has led to declining subscriptions ever since the Wrath/Early Cata peak. Market factors/competition sure, but no one can tell me with a straight face that the game is better than it has ever been when the subs are predicted to be around 2 million or less right now from a peak of of 12 million subs and over 100 million created accounts nearly a decade ago. Or the 3.4million in Day 1 sales for Battle for Azeroth. You don't suddenly lose 1.5 million+ customers that are probably quite heavily invested in 5 months or less unless you fucked up big time.

Related, I think classic will be an interesting experiment, but personally I'd rather have an official BC or Wrath server to tool around on. But I know some people are diehard vanilla fans and it will be interesting to check out some things, given that I only really started a real account in early Wrath. Old world and such was still there, but a lot of things were changed already.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,964
alright, so, ok - theres absolutely no fucking way they purposefully made it so you cannot reset lust and cooldowns by resetting the boss right? they arent actually THAT bad at designing this game right?
 
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Tachya

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
every boss after the monkey. we tried dying, reset, transedence reset on opulence and conclave and nothing

Freak bug? Check the official bug or help forums maybe? I didn't see anything on Reddit about it.

Maybe everyone head out and reset the instance? And/or have people relog? Could also try disbanding the group, resetting, then reforming. I've tried those tactics before to varying success in similar situations in the past.

Otherwise I'm not sure, as unless explicitly designed for some reason, you should pretty much always be able to reset lust and other long cooldowns with a raid boss pull tag and reset.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
4,964
Freak bug? Check the official bug or help forums maybe? I didn't see anything on Reddit about it.

Maybe everyone head out and reset the instance? And/or have people relog? I've tried those tactics before to varying success in similar situations in the past.

Otherwise I'm not sure, as unless explicitly designed for some reason, you should pretty much always be able to reset lust and other long cooldowns with a raid boss pull tag and reset.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/aj4fed/cant_reset_herolust_in_battle_of_dazaralor/

doesnt seem wide spread but if it happens during the mythic race lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,964
i can barely see the circle on Bwonsandi and melee keep getting instagibbed by rastakhans MC. fun fight but those kinda ruin it

also bwonsandi refused to phase for like 15 seconds. what the fuck?
 
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Codosbuya

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,329
Yeah I did NM Mekkatorque and we keep messing the codes, a lot of people talking at the same time, two codes sharing color (screw and skull) and nobody knowing who is talking to who :D
 

Bregor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,477
We just set a rule that you have to say both the players name and the color, i.e. "Codosbuya Blue".
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,964
really every boss after the first is going to be yikes in a PUG.

paladins - easy boss
mage and monk - maze and being knocked into the air
gronk - orb communication and when to use CDs
opulence - lol
council - just a lot of shit going on
rastakhan - unless everyone knows how to do the bwonsandi split phase its a no go
mekkatorque - dont even bother
blockade - hard enough as is
jaina - very long, lots of mechanics, requires timing on limited resources
 

Mamont1537

Member
Oct 25, 2017
80
Moscow
I don't get the gear upgrade path in this patch.
To get an 385 ilvl item in weekly chest I have to complete Mythic 3.
But then today I've got an emissary quest with a 385 reward.
So, should I even bother with low Mythic+ if I'm not really that hardcore player?
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,521
I don't get the gear upgrade path in this patch.
To get an 385 ilvl item in weekly chest I have to complete Mythic 3.
But then today I've got an emissary quest with a 385 reward.
So, should I even bother with low Mythic+ if I'm not really that hardcore player?

The highest you can get from the mythic weekly chest is 410 with a 10 completion

You can only get 385 from emissaries if you're already like 375-380. But yeah, 385 from the weekly chest is only gonna be a worthwhile reward if you're like below 370. Also keep in mind you get residuum from the weekly chest based on your highest completed.

Right now you can get 385 rewards from end of dungeon chest in M+ 5 and 6.
 
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Tachya

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
I don't get the gear upgrade path in this patch.
To get an 385 ilvl item in weekly chest I have to complete Mythic 3.
But then today I've got an emissary quest with a 385 reward.
So, should I even bother with low Mythic+ if I'm not really that hardcore player?

Gear progression in the game right now is all sorts of fucked like that and it's ONE of the major problems that people are upset about. Blizzard doesn't seem to care much or thinks it's better though...the whole psychologically predatory variable reward reinforcement that has been pushed in the video game industry more recently, which is exactly how gambling at casinos works.

The problem is most people don't like gambling long term, except for compulsive gamblers. But that's who dumps in the most money at an individual level, the "whales".

Blizzard doesn't seem like they've caught on to the fact that they're making a flat subscription MMO still though for the most part…
 

Mamont1537

Member
Oct 25, 2017
80
Moscow
Right now you can get 385 rewards from end of dungeon chest in M+ 5 and 6
My main spec is holy, but I find healing Mythic+ way too stressful and unfun. Rushing through the dungeon to beat the timer is like the opposite of what I enjoy in this game.
With this new update I thought about switching to dps and trying to run M+ with my own key just to get a chest reward once a week. But not sure how hard are they and how far can I realistically get with my pretty average dps output without being a burden for my party.
 
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Tachya

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
One alternative to M+ as it's currently setup would be to have a mode that's not time trial oriented, but based on a limited number of lives/resurrections/respawns/etc.

You'd have to increase the difficulty some to compensate, certainly on the higher end, but it could be interesting.

The minimal penalty for death in current M+ is a slap on the wrist by comparison and is gamed to hell with things like death runs to get faster times.

Time might still play a role, but wouldn't be the focus as much as execution. Would also be a nice "training" mode for the people that don't like the current speed-oriented mentality that M+ cultivates, especially in PUGs. Would allow you to see the pulls and paths for higher difficulty dungeons without as much pressure to do it right the first time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,964
Jainas pretty broken. She keeps cancelling her broadside TWICE IN A ROW so we cant pop the barrels. Great game!

edit: took us 5 hours to kill Heroic Jaina. Do NOT do this fight with 30 people, jesus christ. Our closest kill before cutting the group was 10 minutes 40 seconds long. We got a FOURTH prismatic image. Our kill was 2 minutes shorter with 10 less people.

We kept getting weird ass glithes. People DCing jumping off the boat into the ice, the infuriating broadside glitch that only lasted like 30 minutes but pissed everyone off, ships spawning but not being active/dying. Probably the hardest heroic boss since KJ, Mythic will be...interesting
 
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Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
Running into a weird bug/glitch/i don't know what.

The little menu that pops up when you click on the map tracking icon (or the other menu that pops up when you click on the eye for LFG) are located near the center of my screen and for the life of me I can't figure out why. It's even happening when I disable all of my addons. Anyone ran into this?

rtOYrtT.jpg
 

Codosbuya

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,329
How did you manage this?

I want one soooo bad.
There is plenty of material out there on how to farm gold in WoW.

From my personal experience, you need to understand the server that you play on. I play on a low-med pop server which is not raiding intensive (around 100 in wowprogress). Also, the population distribution between H/A also matters. On the other hand, you should consider how many hours do you want to dedicate in your wow gametime in order to get gold. Are you willing to camp old world rares for transmog? do you want a low but steady income?

Tachya can also add a lot here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/woweconomy...w_player_make_gold/?utm_source=reddit-android
 
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Tachya

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
I've done some write ups on gold-making before, but not any expansive blogs on my own site or anything anywhere.

I actually responded to a more recent thread in /r/woweconomy (about making gold with a new patch or raid opening) which is not something I normally do. I'm on the road traveling at least until about Friday, but if I get a chance before then I'll find the link or copy the text to my comment. Just a bit difficult now to do from my phone riding in a car and the data plan is running low D:
 

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,689
The Great Dark Beyond
Yeah I don't see the whole Azeroth (the Titan) thing going well. We've heard too much about how bad a titan could be if corrupted and it would be so lame for us to just purify this one.

I hate when expansions end on sour notes but I can't see BFA ending happily. This one needs to have an ending that fits the narrative.

....which means Garrosh will come back to life and marry Sylvanas and they'll rule the Shadowlands together.
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,331
VqiyxAP.jpg

Expansion goals met.
How are you even making money? I haven't done shit with anything this expansion.

Well, no war mode quest this week for alliance. I really think blizzard is fucking up by not making against overwhelming odds a quest both factions can do with a change in ilvl for the item due to whatever any imbalance exists. That was my main reason to log in.
 

Moff

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,780
just canceled my sub.
Man I was so excited for this expansion but a lot of it was broken from the start and new content simply did not come fast enough. Now I logged in and simply didn't care anymore.

I still think the story might be interesting. When it's all out it might resub for a month to check it all out.
 

Codosbuya

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,329
How are you even making money? I haven't done shit with anything this expansion.

Well, no war mode quest this week for alliance. I really think blizzard is fucking up by not making against overwhelming odds a quest both factions can do with a change in ilvl for the item due to whatever any imbalance exists. That was my main reason to log in.
Linenspray shuffling, goblin gliders and smart postage of bfa foods.With the occasional flipping and sniping.
 

Khezu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,947
This pig mount is the first time I have ever considered giving Blizzard money for stupid bullshit.
It's like so dumb and I want it.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
I've done some write ups on gold-making before, but not any expansive blogs on my own site or anything anywhere.

I actually responded to a more recent thread in /r/woweconomy (about making gold with a new patch or raid opening) which is not something I normally do. I'm on the road traveling at least until about Friday, but if I get a chance before then I'll find the link or copy the text to my comment. Just a bit difficult now to do from my phone riding in a car and the data plan is running low D:
/r/woweconomy is new to me. I'll read through that. Thanks!
 

Fosko

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,955
Blockade normal is harder than anything in hc uldir besides ghuun.
I got to 8% yesterday in a nearly flawless fight. It hits like a truck too.
 
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