World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth|OT| War Mode Enabled!

[Tachya]

So one of the first guys replying to the official WoW Twitter account's congratulatory tweet to Method with something along the lines of "no one cares about Mythic raiders" turns out to be kind of an alt-right weirdo if you dig through the tweet history.

I dunno why I do this to myself — Twitter in general is a cesspool.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Limits so far ahead of Method. Wonder how they will manage to get 2nd this time

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LOL

 

[Bhonar]

That's cool they streamed the whole thing, but unfortunately I didn't get to watch any of it this week.

How many hours per day were they actively raiding this week at that Red Bull venue?

 

[Tachya]

That's cool they streamed the whole thing, but unfortunately I didn't get to watch any of it this week.

How many hours per day were they actively raiding this week at that Red Bull venue?

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I think maybe up to 16 hours a day or so, but maybe less was streamed/casted. Pretty sure they were doing prep work like buying out the AH and crafting stuff, etc. before streams went on. Besides all the prep work that went in the months before. MethodJosh said he did something like 150 hours worth of islands alone for AP, dear god.

And not all of Method was at the Red Bull place — maybe about 1/3rd to 1/2.

RogerBrown wasn't playing this tier as he had compulsive military service.

It's certainly pretty intense though.

 

[cartographer]

MethodJosh said he did something like 150 hours worth of islands alone for AP, dear god.

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That's quite a choice.

I really hope they leave an AP-like alternative progression system out of their next expansion. Zero chance though.

The best it's ever been was late late Legion when you didn't notice it. Previously it killed guilds heading into / during Nighthold and then in BFA it made gearing up feel punishing but also made you virtually helpess since making any dent meant an overwhelming grind.

 

[Tachya]

That's quite a choice.

I really hope they leave an AP-like alternative progression system out of their next expansion. Zero chance though.

The best it's ever been was late late Legion when you didn't notice it. Previously it killed guilds heading into / during Nighthold and then in BFA it made gearing up feel punishing but also made you virtually helpess since making any dent meant an overwhelming grind.

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It wasn't quite as bad in Nighthold itself vs. Trial of Valor if I recall correctly. For ToV you HAD to have that 5% bonus damage trait on all your DPS to make it past Guarm and certainly for Helya (though that was much heavier on composition/mechanics, it still required a lot of numbers.)

I don't remember Nighthold being as bad; but I might be forgetting. The bump needed for Tomb of Sargeras was also somewhat significant, but AP acquisition was smoothed out by then more or less, and as long as you had all the Legionfall traits unlocked you were okay, though obviously each level beyond would help a little bit collectively over a whole raid team.

Legendaries were a massive factor throughout all of this time, but if you had the fortune of not needing to switch specs or classes altogether, then there was a decent chance you could have had everything or most everything by the time Tomb progression was heating up if you played a decent amount.

For people that did switch or were extremely unlucky, well, it wasn't so good.

 

[cartographer]

It wasn't quite as bad in Nighthold itself vs. Trial of Valor if I recall correctly. For ToV you HAD to have that 5% bonus damage trait on all your DPS to make it past Guarm and certainly for Helya (though that was much heavier on composition/mechanics, it still required a lot of numbers.)

I don't remember Nighthold being as bad; but I might be forgetting. The bump needed for Tomb of Sargeras was also somewhat significant, but AP acquisition was smoothed out by then more or less, and as long as you had all the Legionfall traits unlocked you were okay, though obviously each level beyond would help a little bit collectively over a whole raid team.

Legendaries were a massive factor throughout all of this time, but if you had the fortune of not needing to switch specs or classes altogether, then there was a decent chance you could have had everything or most everything by the time Tomb progression was heating up if you played a decent amount.

For people that did switch or were extremely unlucky, well, it wasn't so good.

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I think Nighthold was just people getting fed up and also at that point you were just grinding the same trait over and over, while previously at least you were getting something new other than raw output / health. The lead-up to and the first few weeks of Nighthold is when my friends list started getting pretty bare and guilds started breaking up. When ToV was new things were a little fresher.

It wasn't until 7.2.5ish that I felt comfortable playing a second spec on a character. Both for AP and legendary reasons. I originally was going to play resto and ele on my shaman but ended up just playing resto until then.

Also shout out to the relic system for it taking until Nighthold for my bear to get decent arcane relics for the balance weapon. Nobody in my M+ group had arcane for their specs and I was terrified of switching loot spec, especially since I didn't have Luffas yet.

 

[Strafer]

That Sylvanas cutscene is something else.

 

[Tachya]

That Sylvanas cutscene is something else.

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I'm really hoping this turns interesting because right now it has pretty much been Mists 2.0 even after they promised it wouldn't be. And even if there is some twist later on, it's just going to feel cheap at this point too given the similarities up to now and maybe beyond.

Also some other interesting things on the PTR today. They're finally putting that Iron Horde armored wolf mount (looks like it came out of BRF) in as a timewalking reward for WoD stuff.

There's also an Alliance wolf mount, which is odd because they only deserve horses.

Among some other stuff. It's on the Wowhead front page today, and I linked some stuff in the spoilers channel in discord.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

That Sylvanas cutscene is something else.

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What Sylvanas cutscene is this?

 

[Tachya]

What Sylvanas cutscene is this?

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From 8.1.5 PTR data mining. It's on wowhead.

 

[TiredGamer]

Those gold costs for the newest heirloom upgrades can get bent.

 

[Tachya]

Those gold costs for the newest heirloom upgrades can get bent.

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Yeah I'm not impressed. It's obvious that they wanted to suck gold out of the economy after WoD and Legion printed so much money with garrisons and order halls, but they're just pricing out average players.

A lot is because they've squeezed on multiple sides by lowering income as well as increasing expenses in BfA. It's a bit more detailed than that when you break down every place they've touched, but that's the gist.

Anyone that wasn't sitting on a pile of gold from earlier is pretty fucked. And maybe it's partly to push tokens, but who knows. I don't think pushing token sales is worth the potential damage from people being frustrated with being unable to afford every day stuff. I could make guesses on the economic situation in th game, but Blizzard is gonna be the only one to have any sort of reliable data about net worth/spending habits/etc. on an individual level.

 

[RoninChaos]

Well my sub runs out in March and I don't think I'm renewing. This will be the first time since cata that I've stopped subbing. Just not enjoying the game and the overall structure of it. Of course, if my wife gets back into playing I probably will too but I don't see much point in logging in until 8.2. This is the first expansion where I have no desire to do the raids and I haven't done half the heroic dungeons either. I just don't find any of it interesting. Part of that is because the premise of this expansion is so god damned stupid. And the fact that the game just plays worse overall. Some of the changes they made are just baffling.

Anyway. Does anyone know when 8.2 comes out?

 

[Kalentan]

That Sylvanas cutscene is something else.

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Spoiler

Not Garrosh 2.0 btw

 

[Hixx]

Well my sub runs out in March and I don't think I'm renewing. This will be the first time since cata that I've stopped subbing. Just not enjoying the game and the overall structure of it. Of course, if my wife gets back into playing I probably will too but I don't see much point in logging in until 8.2. This is the first expansion where I have no desire to do the raids and I haven't done half the heroic dungeons either. I just don't find any of it interesting. Part of that is because the premise of this expansion is so god damned stupid. And the fact that the game just plays worse overall. Some of the changes they made are just baffling.

Anyway. Does anyone know when 8.2 comes out?

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Not yet. We don't even have a date for the next minor patch though it cannot be too far off at this point.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=289916...-release-dates-for-8-1-5-8-2-and-azshara-raid

Wowhead posted this a couple of weeks ago. Doesn't seem too unrealistic but it wouldn't be a massive surprise to see 8.2 in June either.

 

[Prophet Five]

I expect 8.2 in May, probably the later part. 8.1.5 shoud be out by the end of this month IMO. Though I suspect it'll be DOA. No one cares at this point.*

Spoiler

imo, etc, before someone grabs their pitchforks

 

[Jag]

8.1.5 will come out early March at least that has some fun stuff to do. I did my 6 month boat sub at the very end of the promotion so I still have time left on my sub. Been slowly leveling alts. Have 7 120s working on number 8.

 

[Prophet Five]

8.1.5 will come out early March at least that has some fun stuff to do. I did my 6 month boat sub at the very end of the promotion so I still have time left on my sub. Been slowly leveling alts. Have 7 120s working on number 8.

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I think my boat sub runs out this month. I honestly did that by accident and they gave me the boat after they started the promotion because I apparently did it right before.

Re: 8.1.5 there may be fun stuff in the patch to do but I don't think it's enough to bring back a good amount of people. I know there's a few who are explicitly awaiting Zando and KT but in the end they're just glorified skins and not "real content." I think 8.2 will, hopefully, be the real hook to bring people in but also the real last chance Blizzard has to earn any goodwill with the playerbase.

 

[Sain]

I'm out until at least 8.2 (sub expired in mid-December). I thought about coming back and raiding with my guild for Dazar'alor, but when the time came, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. A good raid is not enough to keep me paying Blizzard $15 a month when everything else around it is the same/meh.

 

[Wotkar]

congrats to method on world second jaina kill too

 

[Anoregon]

I'm out until at least 8.2 (sub expired in mid-December). I thought about coming back and raiding with my guild for Dazar'alor, but when the time came, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. A good raid is not enough to keep me paying Blizzard $15 a month when everything else around it is the same/meh.

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I *may* resub during 8.1.5 instead of waiting until 8.2. It depends on how 8.2 looks on the PTR. If I feel good enough about the coming changes, then I'll probably sub and level a zandalari instead of waiting for 8.2.

 

[Tachya]

I *may* resub during 8.1.5 instead of waiting until 8.2. It depends on how 8.2 looks on the PTR. If I feel good enough about the coming changes, then I'll probably sub and level a zandalari instead of waiting for 8.2.

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There's some stuff that was just added on the PTR that might be worth checking out for me personally, but I can probably find impressions if I don't explore it myself.

8.2 PTR will be the real test though I think. That is something that I'll definitely be giving a thorough examination before deciding to commit for any longer period of time. If they can't turn dozens of things around with that, then I don't know what to say.

 

[Anoregon]

There's some stuff that was just added on the PTR that might be worth checking out for me personally, but I can probably find impressions if I don't explore it myself.

8.2 PTR will be the real test though I think. That is something that I'll definitely be giving a thorough examination before deciding to commit for any longer period of time. If they can't turn dozens of things around with that, then I don't know what to say.

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8.2 is basically when "Beta for Azeroth" ends. If the game at that point still hasn't got to where it's actually compelling for me to just play a max level character then there's no reason to pay attention to the game until 9.0 at the earliest.

 

[Prophet Five]

8.2 is basically when "Beta for Azeroth" ends. If the game at that point still hasn't got to where it's actually compelling for me to just play a max level character then there's no reason to pay attention to the game until 9.0 at the earliest.

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That's how I feel as well

 

[Tachya]

8.2 is basically when "Beta for Azeroth" ends. If the game at that point still hasn't got to where it's actually compelling for me to just play a max level character then there's no reason to pay attention to the game until 9.0 at the earliest.

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That's how I feel as well

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Pretty much. If the game's act isn't together by 8.2 I'm pretty much writing it off until 9.0 or shortly before, assuming there would even be an 8.3 or whatever. And in that case, I'd be heavily following alpha/beta news and changes before even buying in to another expansion. There's so many other sources of entertainment these days, even if nothing satisfies quite like an MMO, but it's arguable that WoW is barely an MMO or an RPG anymore in many respects.

I may or may not play even if it's bad at various times, just out of habit and the large time investment I've put in previously, but I won't be committed at all.

Will definitely be checking out WoW Classic a little bit in the summer, but I know that's only a side project for me at best, because 40 man raids are just NO. Still plenty of interesting things to do and see besides that though. I'm still of the opinion that a legacy BC server would be the most fun for me, or maybe a Wrath one. Certain patches of later expansions that I wasn't playing and that were good I might be down for as well, but a fully supported legacy BC server I could definitely sink a year or two into at least I think.

 

[Mobius and Pet Octopus]

Have ya'll tried out the new reaping affix? Much more enjoyable than infested. Infested was... neat I guess, but more annoying than challenging. And reaping is pretty exciting.

 

[cartographer]

Seems like a good use of time to design the azerite system, redesign the azerite system for 8.1, lock the azerite system for 8.2 and add a bunch of stuff to the heart and then just delete it all for 9.0 while crossing your fingers and hoping you have enough time to not fuck up whatever 9.0's system is.

 

[Anoregon]

Seems like a good use of time to design the azerite system, redesign the azerite system for 8.1, lock the azerite system for 8.2 and add a bunch of stuff to the heart and then just delete it all for 9.0 while crossing your fingers and hoping you have enough time to not fuck up whatever 9.0's system is.

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I have to imagine there are at least a few folks at blizzard who realized the glaring issues with the Azerite system during development, and for the past couple of months have been feeling a combination of vindication for being correct and extreme frustration at the fact it actually went live in its current state.

 

[Tachya]

Have ya'll tried out the new reaping affix? Much more enjoyable than infested. Infested was... neat I guess, but more annoying than challenging. And reaping is pretty exciting.

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I haven't played the Reaping seasonal affix myself yet, but it definitely seems better than Infested from what I've seen/heard. Infested was just obnoxious.

Seems like a good use of time to design the azerite system, redesign the azerite system for 8.1, lock the azerite system for 8.2 and add a bunch of stuff to the heart and then just delete it all for 9.0 while crossing your fingers and hoping you have enough time to not fuck up whatever 9.0's system is.

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This hurts me in my bones :(

For whatever reason they seem to not want to build on previously good systems and cut ones that actually aren't worth salvaging. Whether it's an internal politics thing, or just intentionally choosing to reinvent the wheel each expansion for the past few, I dunno.

 

[Berordn]

Seems like a good use of time to design the azerite system, redesign the azerite system for 8.1, lock the azerite system for 8.2 and add a bunch of stuff to the heart and then just delete it all for 9.0 while crossing your fingers and hoping you have enough time to not fuck up whatever 9.0's system is.

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Maybe they'll finally figure out a way to keep character progression going without having to develop entirely new systems every few years rather than take something that's mostly had the kinks ironed out and still has room for further expansion and then throw it out.

Boy, that would be wild.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

"Method will come in 2nd this tier"

Not untrue!

 

[Tachya]

"Method will come in 2nd this tier"

Not untrue!

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HEK HEK HEK

 

[Prophet Five]

Maybe they'll finally figure out a way to keep character progression going without having to develop entirely new systems every few years rather than take something that's mostly had the kinks ironed out and still has room for further expansion and then throw it out.

Boy, that would be wild.

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I wish they'd just.... stick with Legion AP-esque progression, rename it "Path of the Titans" lol, and just iterate on that. I never want to see Azerite again.

 

[Tachya]

I wish they'd just.... stick with Legion AP-esque progression, rename it "Path of the Titans" lol, and just iterate on that. I never want to see Azerite again.

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RIP Glyphs

 

[cartographer]

I have to imagine there are at least a few folks at blizzard who realized the glaring issues with the Azerite system during development, and for the past couple of months have been feeling a combination of vindication for being correct and extreme frustration at the fact it actually went live in its current state.

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I'm guessing it wasn't just a few but they likely have an internal requirement to have some sort of alternative progression system and it was too late / expensive to come up with something else. It was added fairly late in testing and the problems with how it would actually work were so apparent that they had to have known.

I don't think they knew when they announced it at Blizzcon though. But a lot of the bigger downsides like losing functionality while upgrading gear were avoidable so it just seems misguided from the start.

 

[Prophet Five]

RIP Glyphs

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Never heard of her.

 

[Strafer]

Very powerful read.

My disabled son - 'the nobleman, the philanderer, the detective'

 

[Prophet Five]

Very powerful read.

My disabled son - 'the nobleman, the philanderer, the detective'

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I knew going in that I would cry so like I only skimmed parts of it since I'm at work. But yep - I'm crying. Very, very powerful.

 

[Anoregon]

Never heard of her.

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Isn't the iconic Mariah line "I don't know her"?

Spoiler

are you even a real gay??

 

[Prophet Five]

Isn't the iconic Mariah line "I don't know her"?

Spoiler

are you even a real gay??

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[Anoregon]

fuck, like most of america/the world I totally forgot that show happened.

 

[Prophet Five]

fuck, like most of america/the world I totally forgot that show happened.

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That's because it ended after the fifth season. You can't convince me otherwise.

Speaking of: people often wish for a WoW 2 but I've been on a Mortal Kombat kick lately and honestly at this point I wouldn't be opposed to a Bronze Dragon expansion that ended with the timeline being rebooted similar to what happens with Armageddon. Khadgar goes "he must win" and Arthas wins Wrath of the Lich King and we just continue from there. We could "replay" the good parts of WoW's story from there but delete most of Cata, WoD, and most importantly, BFA. Don't @ me.

 

[TiredGamer]

Yeah I'm not impressed. It's obvious that they wanted to suck gold out of the economy after WoD and Legion printed so much money with garrisons and order halls, but they're just pricing out average players.

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And yet token prices have barely budged since September.

 

[Tachya]

And yet token prices have barely budged since September.

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I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to make.

It is interesting to note that tokens are about half or less the near end of Legion highs, which is still 3x to 5x the WoD lows, but those lows were before you could convert to Battle.net balance. I'm not sure what the Legion lows/average were off the top of my head without checking out wowtoken.info or somewhere else that has cataloged the prices.

EU has always had somewhat higher prices, NA + OCE tends to be lower. Other regions besides those trend on the higher side, maybe more or less than EU.

 

[Rhaknar]

I might resub for KT, to level a druid. Maybe. Guild didnt come back for the new raid so that ship has sailed for this expansion it seems, so whatever I do from now on will be LFR and the sort.

 

[TiredGamer]

I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to make.

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A stable price means either: a) gold continues to drain from the economy but the player base is also buying less tokens, or b) gold creation is stable and people are buying and selling tokens at a roughly even amount.


Also: Blizzard changed their minds about the Heirloom prices on the PTR and now they've been slashed by a huge amount (upwards of 50% cheaper). I don't know if this means they looked at the data and decided to start easing off deflation, or the anger over the prices drove a re-think on Heirloom prices.

 

[Jag]

I think Blizz is watching the economy closely and realized that they have successfully killed the gold rush. Not sure we will see it again. Too many decisions imply that they don't. Missions mostly. Maybe Azshara does an Argus gold bump, but I'm not optimistic. The mission talent tree is just so ...random.

 

[Prophet Five]

I think Blizz is watching the economy closely and realized that they have successfully killed the gold rush. Not sure we will see it again. Too many decisions imply that they don't. Missions mostly. Maybe Azshara does an Argus gold bump, but I'm not optimistic. The mission talent tree is just so ...random.

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The Mission Talent tree and the mission table in general just seem so quarter assed done this time. I really hope this is the end of the line for this feature.

 

[Tachya]

I think Blizz is watching the economy closely and realized that they have successfully killed the gold rush. Not sure we will see it again. Too many decisions imply that they don't. Missions mostly. Maybe Azshara does an Argus gold bump, but I'm not optimistic. The mission talent tree is just so ...random.

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Yeah the mission table and talent tree this time were definitely there just to tick a checkbox this go around, rather than a meaningful attempt at improving the feature. They somehow made it pretty much worthless while still putting it in the game. Which even the most ardent haters of the garrison table would probably argue against -- the argument then was that it was too necessary and overwhelming to the detriment of other content in WoD. Legion was a better balance I think, but still could have stood for improvement. The ship table in BfA is just...not good.

No joke, the current talent tree for the thing was probably slapped together in a week or two tops, since the framework was already built. The talents are pretty nonsensical and worthless.

I'll definitely be watching to see if they ramp up gold gains from the table or elsewhere in 8.2. Might make it worth leveling and unlocking it on alts, cause the unlock part of the table for followers is more tedious now for significantly less rewards. Let alone the equipment for those followers -- never even bothered in BfA so far as the return on investment wasn't going to be there.