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Prophet Five

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,692
The Great Dark Beyond
Exactly, Legion wasn't perfect (no expansion was or ever will be) but it had enough positive content included that it tips to the good side for me. BFA literally has nothing remotely interesting or fun in it, Islands could have been cool but they aren't and they will die after the expansion anyway. I guess it gave us a Bee mount which I like. WoD and Cata were similar to me, they really didn't have much in them that were a positive addition to me outside of a few small things here and there.

and a lot of it boils down to personal opinion at the end of the day. I 100% agree that no expansion is or will ever be perfect. I also had a lot of fun in Cata which colors my views to where it was a better expansion for me than it was for most. But there were also a ton of problems with it - it just depends on your tolerance for bullshit, I suppose.
 

cartographer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,009
7.2 is the only patch of Legion I would say was of lesser quality because Broken Shore ended up not being that fun but the class mounts and the expanded hall stories were mostly cool. Tomb was a soakfest but it wasn't a -bad- raid. My guild survived all of it and had a lot of fun in the process.

Uldir on the other hand...
And even then, 7.2 added the Mage Tower, one of Legion's biggest successes.
 

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,673
Emergency Maintenance. Realms just came down and an update being pushed out.

Wonder what they are going to brea.. I mean fix.

Be nice to see some gold back from my auctions. I'm thinking that money is gone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,287
Cincinnati
And even then, 7.2 added the Mage Tower, one of Legion's biggest successes.

Mage tower was fucking amazing, so amazing in fact I did it on every single class for every single spec. I really hope Torghast ends up being similar in challenge and as rewarding. I will probably only do Visions solo so that may end up being good as well, but I doubt I ever get my cloak on alts past like 6-10.
 

Hixx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
832
The forced jumping thing in this weeks vision is NOT COOL. Alleria seems annoying as fuck as a melee too even with only two extra mechanics. Still almost impossible to fail, just... took a long time to kill. But I've got my cloak upgrade done in one go, so the other 2/3 tries I can have a look into the 3rd tier areas. Oooooooh yeah!
 
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Prophet Five

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,692
The Great Dark Beyond
The forced jumping thing in this weeks vision is NOT COOL. Alleria seems annoying as fuck as a melee too even with only two extra mechanics. Still almost impossible to fail, just... took a long time to kill. But I've got my cloak upgrade done in one go, so the other 2/3 tries I can have a look into the 3rd tier areas. Oooooooh yeah!

The forced jumping is what fucked us up last night and it was some serious bullshit.
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,746
NoVA
Emergency Maintenance. Realms just came down and an update being pushed out.

Wonder what they are going to brea.. I mean fix.

Be nice to see some gold back from my auctions. I'm thinking that money is gone.
This maintenance is supposed to be addressing that. They keep insisting that nothing is lost, but it makes you wonder.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,049
The whole binary is what the system was at first? not sure i follow. If you didnt have cloak as retri paladin you had a -10% dps debuff compared to people who had it. What is not but objective truth about this? helm/prydaz/bracers/boots literally had zero dps gain. There's no hyperbole.
They gradually made it better months after months but it took more than a year.

Well first of all I definitely need to see receipts on the 10% claim (not sure if you are talking about it pre-nerf?). But beyond that, I'm saying even with individual balance discrepancies, the actual impact was still negligble. It felt bad to have the "wrong" legendary, but unless you were in a cutting edge mythic guild where everyone is squeezing every hundredth of a percent it wasn't going to make or break your experience.

Also, statements like boots being "literally zero dps gain" are actually hyperbolic, because they come from a sterilized sim perspective instead of real gameplay. For example, increased movement speed doesn't show up in a sim, but increased movement speed = increased damage uptime on any encounter where you aren't able to stick to the bosse's ass for the entire duration, which is most of them. Not to mention legendary effects that may not increase your actual DPS but either keep you alive when you would have died or make it easier for the healers to keep other people alive, which contributes to overall raid success. Sure it sucks to not get the one item you are after, and the relative balance of them definitely wasn't great, but the idea that anything but that item is automatically worthless is just silly.

I'm not arguing that the system was perfect or even a slam-dunk, but it just wasn't as bad as people like you are convinced.
 

cartographer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,009
Mage tower was fucking amazing, so amazing in fact I did it on every single class for every single spec. I really hope Torghast ends up being similar in challenge and as rewarding. I will probably only do Visions solo so that may end up being good as well, but I doubt I ever get my cloak on alts past like 6-10.
Same (even went back on my second druid and unlocked feral a second time). One of my favorite things ever added to the game. Mage Tower (and leveling to do mage tower / class content) and Legion Mythic+ were the majority of my play time in Legion.
 
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Prophet Five

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,692
The Great Dark Beyond
Same (even went back on my second druid and unlocked feral a second time). One of my favorite things ever added to the game. Mage Tower (and leveling to do mage tower / class content) and Legion Mythic+ were the majority of my play time in Legion.

I still stand beside the opinion that Legion M+ was infinitely more fun and enjoyable than BFAs if only because I didn't feel like every dungeon was a terribly cramped experience. Goddamn these corridors and the camera's inability to function well within them!
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,049
I still stand beside the opinion that Legion M+ was infinitely more fun and enjoyable than BFAs if only because I didn't feel like every dungeon was a terribly cramped experience. Goddamn these corridors and the camera's inability to function well within them!

I think dungeon design in BfA is another case of Blizzard learning the wrong lessons. They saw M+ was a success in legion and wanted to improve/build off of it, and as a result designed BfA dungeons specifically with a bunch of M+-related ideas in mind. Which of course made them shittier.
 
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Prophet Five

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,692
The Great Dark Beyond
I think dungeon design in BfA is another case of Blizzard learning the wrong lessons. They saw M+ was a success in legion and wanted to improve/build off of it, and as a result designed BfA dungeons specifically with a bunch of M+-related ideas in mind. Which of course made them shittier.

Yeah for sure. It feels like a lot of the BFA dungeons have like EVERY MECHANIC THROWN AT THE WALL with no regard to how they actually "flow" together. M+ was neat as hell when it released but man I grew tired of it in 8.0 and now that feeling lingers to where I can usually do one or two before I get burned out for the night.

That and well because of how 8.0/8.1 played out for me I didn't really run them consistently enough to memorize the encounters the way I should have and coupling that with my legit memory issues sometimes I just... like don't know the fights 100%. Fake it until you make it though.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,373
Two things. First:



Second:

I hear a LOT of shit about WoW's designed these days, particularly regarding class design, gear/growth, systems, etc. I don't have a good brain for this, and don't see how they should do things instead. Going back to just gear being the way to grow feels...boring? But it's what people seem to want? So my question is -- what would you propose for how gameplay, character growth and the overall loop of activities should be designed in Shadowlands and beyond?

The advent of WQs, M+, and post-level-cap-growth in Legion represented such a huge, positive shift for end-game growth and play, and I'm still kind of enjoying how that works out in BFA, but everyone else seems to hate it.
 

carlsojo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
33,843
San Francisco
Legion was the best expansion in terms of everything that matters to me - story, gameplay, and challenge.

I hope Shadowlands is a return to Legion-tier WoW.
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,746
NoVA
I hear a LOT of shit about WoW's designed these days, particularly regarding class design, gear/growth, systems, etc. I don't have a good brain for this, and don't see how they should do things instead. Going back to just gear being the way to grow feels...boring? But it's what people seem to want? So my question is -- what would you propose for how gameplay, character growth and the overall loop of activities should be designed in Shadowlands and beyond?

The advent of WQs, M+, and post-level-cap-growth in Legion represented such a huge, positive shift for end-game growth and play, and I'm still kind of enjoying how that works out in BFA, but everyone else seems to hate it.
There's something to be said about just how much gear there is in the game now. It used to be at endgame a piece could last you a few months and after applying whatever bonuses you could, that was the end of it. There's an intangible value to an end goal, where certain items can become highly recognizable. You knew to run away from the Warrior with an Unstoppable Force because it just became so iconic, and because stuns are scary.

Now that there's so much loot, there's nothing like that. A BIS list is nothing more than a wishlist of potential affixes to drop, akin to Diablo. This isn't inherently a bad thing, since it gives you a reason to keep playing, but it also gives you no real end goals and can just make everything feel like a slog if you've got no other reasons to play. Part of what was great about raiding, even on lower difficulties, was tackling new challenges and getting exclusive rewards at every level, which could inspire some people to play with folks who were just more interested in tackling the content. Thanks to the inflating ilvls of World Quests and the general efficiency of M+ runs that's not true anymore.

While I think it's ultimately a good thing that the game has those options available now, it's a stark departure from how things worked for the first 10 years of its life. It's a hard genie to put back in the bottle too, since there's groups who probably play each bit of content exclusively. I think that's actually somewhere the artifact weapon worked really well, as a continuous alternate progression system. Each source of loot would help players along that alternate progression route, and they had the ability to keep adding to it and help specialize it a certain way. That did introduce another problem, where with so many sources of that progression required you to interact with way more content than you might've had to before, but there's probably sensible ways to cap it to allow players to do what they want rather than feel pressured into doing everything.
 

DJ Lushious

Enhanced Xperience
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,330
Wowzers! I just tried playing on my MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017) and I can't even make it a full minute without the game crashing. I am not the only one.

I have a desktop I main the game on, but the MacBook has been my go-to when I am mobile and need to get something done. So, I'm only moderately vexed, but still. I can only imagine the frustration this would cause if Apple is someone's sole playing device.

Also, sidenote, I am loving the Ny'aLotha raid! We only got 2 bosses down last night, with the raid group falling apart on Marut, but the fights so far are very interesting. Now, ask me again in 2 months and I don't know what I'll say. Haha!
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,964
lol the ending. worst expansion by far. total garbage

well we're already running out of shit to do...better turn argus, azshara and the black empire patches instead of expansions and rush through them as fast as we can for some reason
 
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Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,373
lmao, from reddit:

Mind Controlled Vulpera can cast return to camp. It's even funnier if you're the tank and just leave your group behind.
Had a long MC in a vanilla dungeon, nobody stunned me and I just dipped out of the dungeon fully against my will.
 

Yunsen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,762
I hope mythic N'zoth doesn't add anything else that bridges it to Shadowlands. I was really annoyed in WoD that you didn't know what happened to Cho'gall unless you cleared mythic Highmaul.
 

Hixx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
832
I hope mythic N'zoth doesn't add anything else that bridges it to Shadowlands. I was really annoyed in WoD that you didn't know what happened to Cho'gall unless you cleared mythic Highmaul.

They don't really have any previous for this, so I'm not expecting it.

On the other hand, a cheeky encrypted file being added the day before the Mythic race starts would ramp up interest in those events.

But I'm gonna stick with we got what we got and that is it.

The forced jumping is what fucked us up last night and it was some serious bullshit.

Yeah I bet the jumping and pools are a ton of fun with a group. The solo/group balance seems all over the place but I'm glad they gave us the choice at least.

-

I was hoping these realm restarts would be the mail fix... I'm still missing thousands of gold from auctions. Oh dear oh dear.
 

Deleted member 16452

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,276
Another goblin in this thread? What world is this?

Failed a Horrific Vision last night due to the stupid "bounce all the fuck around" shit and it pulled everything and murdered us. I was incredibly pissed about it and I'm still a little salty. Vessel wasted, time wasted, no way to grind out 10K visions any time soon to replace the lost Vessel. Feels bad. Those things need to be 5K at the most. What a weirdly punishing system.

Goblins are the best.
 

Dalik

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,528
Now that I think about it, that fake shit with the dead people on the boats on stormwind was infinitely better than the garbage we got now.
 

Necrokey

Member
Jan 20, 2019
555
Orlando, Florida
Ugh, im just so disappointed. How can a team so large after almost 15 years still have this many issues in regards to delivering consistent content. IDK about the rest of you but i just would like to remind everyone that this is far from the first time they have done this in some capacity. I know i was never promised this content and to be fair during development there is more cut content than content that gets released but this stuff hurts all the same.
  • WOTK
    • Dance Studio-Some think this was a joke but i assure you it was not received that way at the time
  • Cataclysm
    • 4.2 Abyssal Maw Raid-They bit off more than they can chew with them developing firelands it seemed.
    • Path of the Titans- Cut because they couldn't get it to work if i remember right but i think its safe to assume it was at least used as basis for the artifact system.
  • Warlords of Draenor
    • Shattrath raid and patch - To be fair i dont think they have ever said publicly this was going to be a thing but its clear that if you played around this expansion or time that this was gutted to expedite the end of the expansion's story. it is set up with the zones quest line and dropped much like the Abyssal Maw.
    • Farahlon - This is one i have never seen content from but from Blizzcon it was shown off as a zone on the first map we saw for Draenor. This could have been anything but it was at least far enough along for them to reveal it to the public as an area for the expansion.
    • Faction cities -Karabor and Chronal Spire were built and even used in game but never completed for use as a full faction city. Instead we got Ashran....
    • Garrisons - Man, i was so excited when i learned that we would be able to place it in any zone we wanted! Welp, i guess i like Frostfire ridge?
  • BfA
    • Patch 8.3 - I went into this patch blind for the most part so when i started playing it seemed to me this was more of a budget patch. Elongated quest line reintroducing alot of the world you know before. Two zones reworked with some new assets but mostly the same and the much smaller cut scenes. I dont know what they had planned exactly but it looks pretty clear they botched this one to move on to other content.

I was a bit more tolerable to WoD due to them having to bring in a large portion of the team that worked on titan but for BfA it just feels horrible knowing about the layoffs at the beginning of the year. Lets pray for some kind of shadowlands update soon to alleviate some of the pressure regarding the lack of 8.3.5, maybe we get 9.0 earlier or something.
 

Cass_Se

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,126
So I just watched the ending cinematic and wait, that's it? It feels like I'm missing something, the one I've watched is too short but I can't find any extended ones?

So after 10 years of buildup N'zoth really just gets stabbed by Wrathion and dies? And all the cinematic we've gotten is a 15-seconds long ripoff of RotK?
 
Oct 28, 2017
480
Denmark
Cancelled my sub.
I was all fired up for Visions of N'zoth, even got my draenei protection paladin transmog done just before the patch hit.
Maybe I'm just burned out, but the whole "budget patch to pave the way for a potentially great Shadowlands" is not convincing to me at all.
A cynical part of me feels like this patch is a test to see how much they can save on WoW updates, while keeping as many players in the grind as possible to keep the cash flow going.
I probably won't be returning for Shadowlands, but I'm very interested in how the expansion pans out. I sincerely hope it's great.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
BfA is such a trainwreck that Shadowlands has got to be fucking amazing to pull me back in tbh. But it's probably going to be more of the same time-gated daily grind shit, that's just what the game is at this point. More excited for the level squish than anything else, so I actually have a good reason to spend time in good expansions. I hope the Shadowlands leveling experience is at least fun but Mechagon and Nazjatar were so abysmal that idk if the WoW team can still make fun questing zones. I didn't particularly enjoy the BfA leveling zones either, at least on the Horde side.
 

Nugnip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,744
Seeing the ending for this expansion and finishing the main story of FFXIV the same day definitely put things in perspective for me. What a fucking letdown.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,049
MoP was so good, I don't get the hate! Legion is probably the top for me closely followed by MoP and WotLK
It wasnt ironic, MoP is the best expansion of all for me.

It's definitely one of my favorites, and it seems like overall opinion of it has grown over time. I think MoP is a great example of how you don't need extraneous alternate progression systems at max level to keep people engaged as long the core loop of actually playing your character is fun. MoP was considered a high point of class/spec design for a lot of people, and that combined with how relatively alt-friendly it became when they smoothed out the original rep grind issues made it just easy to enjoy playing. Versus BfA which like actively dares you to have a good time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,287
Cincinnati
MoP was fantastic, once people looked past their hatred of Panda people (which I never understood it's a fantasy game dipshits) I think they realized it was an amazing expansion. A few of the raids were kind of underwhelming, but Throne of Thunder and Siege were both good enough to carry the expansion in my opinion. Removing the cloak quest for people that didn't get to do it back then and then by doing that shutting them out from ever fighting Ordos was kind of stupid but Blizzard gonna Blizzard.
 

FLEABttn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,009
So my question is -- what would you propose for how gameplay, character growth and the overall loop of activities should be designed in Shadowlands and beyond?

A less is more thing that needs to happen with character growth. What I mean by that is that there's way too many avenues of vertical progression you need to participate in now in order to progress your character. It was one thing to level you character and then get better and better gear but this system where you do that, but you also have to hope for the right azerite gear with the right traits, and then you have to level a neck, and then you need to grind factions or other activities for essences to equip in your neck, and then you have to level a back, and then you have to do weekly/daily quests to get the currency to level the back. It's too much.

The advent of WQs, M+, and post-level-cap-growth in Legion represented such a huge, positive shift for end-game growth and play, and I'm still kind of enjoying how that works out in BFA, but everyone else seems to hate it.

I can't speak for others but I don't like M+ because it incorporates dungeon gameplay that I don't like into the meta (mob skipping, excessive chain pulling), difficulty increases seem to affect trash significantly more than the bosses so that the dynamic of instances is swapped the higher up in keys you go, random affixes, and beating a dungeon is not what's important but beating it quickly enough.
 
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Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,221
I still stand beside the opinion that Legion M+ was infinitely more fun and enjoyable than BFAs if only because I didn't feel like every dungeon was a terribly cramped experience. Goddamn these corridors and the camera's inability to function well within them!

Glad to see this mentioned. I'm only back for a short time but this has been a big issue for me. Tol Dagor was a nightmare. I didn't enjoy the Underrot the 1 time I ran it either.

But my toughest thing trying to learn M+ on the fly is threading the needle and not pulling trash. Like someone on Disco telling me "be careful here" while we have Volcanic popping is not fun.

Cramped and camera were the biggest issues that worked against the M+ fun.

I can't speak for others but I don't like M+ because it incorporates dungeon gameplay that I don't like into the meta (mob skipping, excessive chain pulling), difficulty increases seem to affect trash significantly more than the bosses so that the dynamic of instances is swapped the higher up in keys you go, random affixes, and beating a dungeon is not what's important but beating it quickly enough.

This rings true for me too. As much as I enjoy having a difficult raiding alternative, the difficulty hitting trash the hardest and the timer situation are downers. I miss the days of going into BRD and spending an evening, vs the frantic timer runs.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,373
A less is more thing that needs to happen with character growth. What I mean by that is that there's way too many avenues of vertical progression you need to participate in now in order to progress your character. It was one thing to level you character and then get better and better gear but this system where you do that, but you also have to hope for the right azerite gear with the right traits, and then you have to level a neck, and then you need to grind factions or other activities for essences to equip in your neck, and then you have to level a back, and then you have to do weekly/daily quests to get the currency to level the back. It's too much.



I can't speak for others but I don't like M+ because it incorporates dungeon gameplay that I don't like into the meta (mob skipping, excessive chain pulling), difficulty increases seem to affect trash significantly more than the bosses so that the dynamic of instances is swapped the higher up in keys you go, random affixes, and beating a dungeon is not what's important but beating it quickly enough.
I promise I'm not trying to be a contrarian or argumentative asshole here but I think I feel differently on a couple of these things.

I kind of like multiple systems of progression as a veteran player. Just levelling up once and then getting gear feels a bit boring to me now. I agree that it's hard to understand some of those systems, and I can imagine that a new or newer player must find it totally incomprehensible. It's why we have so many memes about all the various doodads and currencies and garbage in 8.3 specifically.

Il likemythic plus. I think it's one of the best things to happen to end game in WoW. Frenetic energy and pace of the race is a lot of fun for me. I do think it should be balanced with thoughtful exploratory dungeons which are equally amazing, like the recent Karazhan and Mechagon. without mythic plus or something like that, all that amazing dungeon content just dies as soon as you have gear. In short, I like that the changes overall to endgame in Legion and BFA repurpose content, send you back into old areas, zones, and dungeons, instead of just outpacing them with character growth constantly.

I do agree that trash and trash pulls being the most difficult part of M+ runs is weird and should be addressed.
 
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Prophet Five

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,692
The Great Dark Beyond
I can tank M+ but I feel like the healers are putting in the work for them. I can't imagine the stress of doing that shit and trying to keep everyone alive. Y'all are the true mvps.
 

data west

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,015
I think a 'neutral' race has no business in World of Warcraft, but Pandaren are fine. Female Pandaren are particularly one of the best models Blizzard has ever made. And they're infinitely less disgusting than the Draenei retcon job. Monks are the most well-designed overall class in the game.

MOP is the GOAT. I said that when it was live too.
 

cartographer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,009
I can tank M+ but I feel like the healers are putting in the work for them. I can't imagine the stress of doing that shit and trying to keep everyone alive. Y'all are the true mvps.
Tanking's still important but beyond all the other issues with BFA mythic+, class design made many of the tank classes feel like they didn't have much control or ways to effect how the dungeon goes other than pulling correctly. This mostly affected specs like bear and brew but it was felt in most of them. Keep AM up, do very little damage and healing and hope everyone else is playing well. The threat change did nothing substantial other than annoy people who didn't know about it for the first week of the expansion. Small changes like giving bears Ursol's Vortex and allowing them to cleanse in bear form help a little, but it's still a case where tanking just feels less fun. In Legion you could swap out your legs and trinkets pull-to-pull and that made it more fun (that affected how fun DPS classes were, too, notably Ele shaman).
 

Perfect Chaos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,337
Charlottesville, VA, USA
I think I kind of split the difference here: I don't mind the different progression paths, but I wish the activities involved, and the relative progression rates of them, didn't feel so disconnected. I'm doing WQs ONLY for AP. I'm doing Rustbolt Resistance dailies ONLY for the Rep essences. I'm doing Mechagon dungeon runs ONLY for Vision of Perfection. I wish it was a bit more silo'd together so that I could be checking multiple boxes at once, instead of having this list of shit to do every day, and trying to weigh all these different activities against each other to determine what's the "best" thing to do.
 
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Prophet Five

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,692
The Great Dark Beyond
Tanking's still important but beyond all the other issues with BFA mythic+, class design made many of the tank classes feel like they didn't have much control or ways to effect how the dungeon goes other than pulling correctly. This mostly affected specs like bear and brew but it was felt in most of them. Keep AM up, do very little damage and healing and hope everyone else is playing well. The threat change did nothing substantial other than annoy people who didn't know about it for the first week of the expansion. Small changes like giving bears Ursol's Vortex and allowing them to cleanse in bear form help a little, but it's still a case where tanking just feels less fun. In Legion you could swap out your legs and trinkets pull-to-pull and that made it more fun (that affected how fun DPS classes were, too, notably Ele shaman).

I hate to keep pulling it back to Legion but Blood tanking in Legion was OUTRAGEOUSLY FUN. Not so much in BFA - but all the classes really have issues with BFA design. I was a Frost DK up until 7.2 but my favorite iteration of Frost was probably MoP or WoD. It was so good.

I really hope the class changes in SL end up being awesome. Tanking is better in 8.3 but anything is really an improvement after what BFA offered before. Fuck those threat changes into the ground.

I think I kind of split the difference here: I don't mind the different progression paths, but I wish the activities involved, and the relative progression rates of them, didn't feel so disconnected. I'm doing WQs ONLY for AP. I'm doing Rustbolt Resistance dailies ONLY for the Rep essences. I'm doing Mechagon dungeon runs ONLY for Vision of Perfection. I wish it was a bit more silo'd together so that I could be checking multiple boxes at once, instead of having this list of shit to do every day, and trying to weigh all these different activities against each other to determine what's the "best" thing to do.

Chiming in on this too because lord have mercy I don't have enough time in the day to do EVERYTHING they're asking of me AND still have time to run stuff with my guild and friends. I can't miss my dailies because I'll fall behind but then i'm too tired/have to go to work and can't run dungeons. And then weekends I "have time" but I can't sit around and play video games all day. I have responsibilities that aren't tied to my 40 hour a week job.

And don't even talk to me about playing other games that aren't WoW. I don't know how people do it.
 

Rokal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
506
Add my name to the list of people who dislike M+ and how it has changed all dungeon runs that offer relevant rewards into races.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,287
Cincinnati
Yep, I hate M+ and basically ignore it. Actually I ignore Mythic completely now, pretty sure the last time I cared about them was during WoD for the challenge equipment. Most of the people I know that actually played the game have moved on, my guild is dead (but I don't want to leave it) so any time I join one it's filled with toxic assbags so I'm good on that.
 

data west

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,015
I've compiled the good things from BFA

-Dark Iron Dwarf babes
-That one cloth Horde set from Darkshore
-Heritage Armor
-Frog mount

literally only cosmetics and they still dont make up for the lack of tier sets.
 
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Prophet Five

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,692
The Great Dark Beyond
Yep, I hate M+ and basically ignore it. Actually I ignore Mythic completely now, pretty sure the last time I cared about them was during WoD for the challenge equipment. Most of the people I know that actually played the game have moved on, my guild is dead (but I don't want to leave it) so any time I join one it's filled with toxic assbags so I'm good on that.

I think the "need" to make M+ into a shoehorned e-sport has really killed any cool design philosophy they could have added to dungeons. I don't find any of the BFA ones particularly memorable which is a shame because I know quite a few people who were excited for Zando and KT as vistas and everything is just so.... there.
 
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