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World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth |OT2| Bless Your Heart
- Thread starter Prophet Five
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100% okay with more Megadungeons. That would be my choice FOR SURE.
I'm not opposed to M+ staying in the game but I want it to be less E SPORTS LUL focused - there has to be a good balance but like everything they touch Blizzard only seems to recognize extremes.
I'm a bit torn on the alternate avenues of progression approach the game currently has. It's a good idea, but I think the execution is hard to get right. You want people to be able to pursue the content they enjoy, but you also don't want them to feel like other content is mandatory to maximize their upgrade potential. IE how you are basically nerfing your own progression/gear intake if you don't have both a m+ and an honor chest capped every week, regardless of how you feel about m+ or pvp. I suppose they could make it a sort of either/or scenario, but that has the opposite effect of completely discouraging you from doing multiple types of content.
i think vertical progression being the entirety of the end game's content approach is a whole other issue though, but sadly I don't think that is likely to change.
i think vertical progression being the entirety of the end game's content approach is a whole other issue though, but sadly I don't think that is likely to change.
Maybe controversial opinion: I kind of think that the timer should be removed from M+, or further de-emphasized at least. The challenge should be in whether you can finish it or not - not in whether you have the right group comp to do wild skips and shit. The prestige would still be there since the best players would still be the ones doing the highest level keys. And I say that as someone who really likes doing keystones and was pushing higher keys in Legion.
As is, the focus on killing the perfect amount of trash as quickly as you can and then skipping everything else just feels so at odds with what a dungeon should be. At least, your speed shouldn't be the primary determination of progress.
As is, the focus on killing the perfect amount of trash as quickly as you can and then skipping everything else just feels so at odds with what a dungeon should be. At least, your speed shouldn't be the primary determination of progress.
Honestly? Raids, pvp, dungeons, M+, etc all contribute to one weekly pool that you can spend or save as you see fit. It wouldn't supplant ALL OTHER systems, but could exist along side a few of them.
My primary issue was making the ending dungeons of the story campaign Mythic-only, because Mythics can't be accessed through the dungeon finder. Yes, they fixed it by making them Heroic in 8.1, but why wasn't that always the case?
This is sort of what I was expecting to happen with artifact power, but they just bolted it on top of other stuff and made it more cumbersome than anything. I honestly think they'd have a winner if everything awarded gear based on difficulty, but the only other rewards went toward whatever the new alternate progression is.
I guess this is kind of what they were trying to do with Azerite, with the gear and traits and heart having a relationship, but their implementation there was flawed from inception.
Mythic 0 should have been added to the finder a long time ago. They aren't difficult and while they do require some communication or CC sometimes, if you lock the finder to only standard Mythic I don't think you will find many issues. Obviously keep keys to pre made groups.
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I don't have a fancy fix for it but I also think there's too many avenues for gear and I miss that there was once a kinda... set path for progression. I don't know. I'd definitely remove gear from LFR and make it cosmetic only / story mode or something. I'm not a game designer though and I won't pretend to be.
I kinda wish badges would return sometimes because I felt that was the best way they handled rewarding content. I'm just the kind of player that, no, I don't do mythic END GAME HARD MODE shit but when I see activities that can make me stronger and help my raid team (via my better numbers/performance) I feel guilty if I don't do them. It's a weird source of stress and anxiety in the game and no matter how much I try I cannot shake that feeling. If I can do something to improve our chances then I -should- be doing it. But there's just not enough time in the week and also I'm not like a super good player. That's another thing completely but just in the case of M+ I often finish the nights feeling like I shouldn't be in those groups or whatever because I'm not good enough to complete those dungeons or whatever within the timers.
I kinda wish badges would return sometimes because I felt that was the best way they handled rewarding content. I'm just the kind of player that, no, I don't do mythic END GAME HARD MODE shit but when I see activities that can make me stronger and help my raid team (via my better numbers/performance) I feel guilty if I don't do them. It's a weird source of stress and anxiety in the game and no matter how much I try I cannot shake that feeling. If I can do something to improve our chances then I -should- be doing it. But there's just not enough time in the week and also I'm not like a super good player. That's another thing completely but just in the case of M+ I often finish the nights feeling like I shouldn't be in those groups or whatever because I'm not good enough to complete those dungeons or whatever within the timers.
Yeah, no badges kinda sucks given that rng can be against you. There's been multiple runs where I got 0 drops.
Yep, there is way too much loot, and way too much of it is worthless.
It's easy to say that things like LFR and Mythic plus dungeons shouldn't give gear if they aren't content that you enjoy. But there ARE people who enjoy it, and having valuable gear matters.
I was having a discussion with another officer just yesterday about how useful the Challenge mode teleport for Vale was for those who had earned it. I got all the Mists and WoD Challenge modes done, but he had only done a few that I begged him to come to since we were short of people that day. And this is a person that has done tons of Mythic plus runs and is superb at them. We came to the conclusion that the opportunity (even if it is highly dependent on RNG) for gear upgrades is what made the difference.
WoW is different now than what it used to be. For most of it's history (before Legion) Raiding was basically the only way to get the best gear. Now you can raid, or do Mythic plus runs, or even get some OK gear doing world quests. And there is usually some aspect of your gear (essences, AP, or now cape upgrades) that pretty much requires participation in world content.
This produces new incentives that some will, of course, not appreciate. While beforehand you only needed to engage with world content and dungeons until you got gear from the first raid of an expansion, there is now pressure to do so constantly (especially if you feel the need to optimize gear to clear raid content).
This _is_ unfortunate. But to undo it would deny content to many players who enjoy it. It's a quandary that the designers have placed themselves in - do one thing, kill content for many casual players - do the other, make hardcore players feel they have to grind content they aren't as interested in.
I'm not sure I see a solution.
I was having a discussion with another officer just yesterday about how useful the Challenge mode teleport for Vale was for those who had earned it. I got all the Mists and WoD Challenge modes done, but he had only done a few that I begged him to come to since we were short of people that day. And this is a person that has done tons of Mythic plus runs and is superb at them. We came to the conclusion that the opportunity (even if it is highly dependent on RNG) for gear upgrades is what made the difference.
WoW is different now than what it used to be. For most of it's history (before Legion) Raiding was basically the only way to get the best gear. Now you can raid, or do Mythic plus runs, or even get some OK gear doing world quests. And there is usually some aspect of your gear (essences, AP, or now cape upgrades) that pretty much requires participation in world content.
This produces new incentives that some will, of course, not appreciate. While beforehand you only needed to engage with world content and dungeons until you got gear from the first raid of an expansion, there is now pressure to do so constantly (especially if you feel the need to optimize gear to clear raid content).
This _is_ unfortunate. But to undo it would deny content to many players who enjoy it. It's a quandary that the designers have placed themselves in - do one thing, kill content for many casual players - do the other, make hardcore players feel they have to grind content they aren't as interested in.
I'm not sure I see a solution.
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And put fucking Uldum and Vale portals into the Chamber as well. Fuck this back and forth nonsense. There's too many loading screens between content.
Oh no worries there.
For me it comes off super kludgy, having separate semi-disconnected vertical progression systems that influence what you could call your overall vertical progression. But, yeah, it's also overly complicated! It makes me feel vaguely reminiscent of MoP loot where you had to enchant, gem, spend valor points to increase the ilvl of the item, and then reforge it. Too many hoops! It's also killed any desire for alts as well. Whereas I usually kept 1-2 decent geared alts a tier behind in gear or so, the multiple systems to go through to try and keep them up kinda is too much so I won't be playing anything outside my main. That 120 boost that came with Shadowlands is just sitting there because why bother.
For the complaints of Blizzard now having a "play the patch" philosophy, this runs completely counter to that. But instead of content, it's systems.
Wonder if the story team is ever going to address Sargeras' sword. Will it be killing Azeroth for eternity?
They're gonna Dynamax Thrall and he will use it to fight a large revived Garrosh who has a colt .45
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Just another thing lost in the shuffle of BFA. I had assumed we'd expend the Heart energy as a way to destroy the sword or fling it back into space but it seems they're just leaving it there. Maybe when Sargeras escapes the Pantheon he'll reclaim it or something. It seems the Heart will be our way into the Shadowlands so I guess we'll deplete it to make a permanent way to cross over instead.
Sad. I was super curious how we'd fix it when BFA launched. Now I don't really care.
So... New Undead hairstyles for Shadowlands datamined from 8.3!
https://www.wowhead.com/news=309590/new-datamined-undead-hairstyles-coming-in-shadowlands
https://www.wowhead.com/news=309590/new-datamined-undead-hairstyles-coming-in-shadowlands
I'll echo one of the main issues with alternative progression paths is how many there are and that they largely require you to do content a lot of people don't enjoy. If you enjoy that content, great! But it's pretty clear that's one of the main issues people have.
Artifact power - World quests, islands. In Legion this was endless Maw. This is still stupid despite them mostly fixing the main issue (gear dropping at max level that you can't properly use because you didn't do enough islands yet).
Essences - PvE for good PvP essences, PvP for good PvE essences, world quests, daily quests. In the case of Mechagon, grinding spare parts (and to be fair, a few from raids and dungeons).
Cloak - World quests and daily quests for currency to do the actual activity to upgrade it, no other way to do so. I think this is less egregious than the essence system and at least there are visions attached to it, but this is going to wear on people, too.
There's a reason people dislike all that. Let people be done with that shit when they want to be done with it.
The biggest issue with it is that they have been expansion specific and disposable. It's painfully clear this is a massive drain on their resources to break it down and build it again each expansion. It leads to classes feeling like shit and needing to be fixed, and then they attempt to fix them through the disposable system, meaning the actual problem was never solved. That this is continuing in Shadowlands blows my mind. If there were an indication that the alternative progression system wasn't so closely tied to that expansion, then I would be less pessimistic. Example: Outlaw needs the bracers / dead shot / ace family of rental abilities to feel engaging. It's satisfying and flows with the rotation. Who the fuck knows if that's going to make it to Shadowlands.
TL;DR - Make an alternative progression path that stays with us and isn't thrown away but built upon. You know, like talents and what glyphs used to be.
Artifact power - World quests, islands. In Legion this was endless Maw. This is still stupid despite them mostly fixing the main issue (gear dropping at max level that you can't properly use because you didn't do enough islands yet).
Essences - PvE for good PvP essences, PvP for good PvE essences, world quests, daily quests. In the case of Mechagon, grinding spare parts (and to be fair, a few from raids and dungeons).
Cloak - World quests and daily quests for currency to do the actual activity to upgrade it, no other way to do so. I think this is less egregious than the essence system and at least there are visions attached to it, but this is going to wear on people, too.
There's a reason people dislike all that. Let people be done with that shit when they want to be done with it.
The biggest issue with it is that they have been expansion specific and disposable. It's painfully clear this is a massive drain on their resources to break it down and build it again each expansion. It leads to classes feeling like shit and needing to be fixed, and then they attempt to fix them through the disposable system, meaning the actual problem was never solved. That this is continuing in Shadowlands blows my mind. If there were an indication that the alternative progression system wasn't so closely tied to that expansion, then I would be less pessimistic. Example: Outlaw needs the bracers / dead shot / ace family of rental abilities to feel engaging. It's satisfying and flows with the rotation. Who the fuck knows if that's going to make it to Shadowlands.
TL;DR - Make an alternative progression path that stays with us and isn't thrown away but built upon. You know, like talents and what glyphs used to be.
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WELL DONE HEROES YOU HAVE SAVED AZEROTH
but what about the sword? didnt that cause all this to begin with? its still there
SHUDDUP HERO THE SKY IS SPLITTING NOW LETS GO THERE
Blizzard just... lost... a giant sword stuck in a planet.
Whew.
Maybe in World of Warcraft: Finale, Azeroth will pull the sword out of her chest and use it to kill Sargeras.
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They're using the same approach to problems as my dogs: "If you ignore them then they'll go away."
Actually, that's my approach as well..
I'm picturing the poor devs reading the universally terrible feedback this week about story in BFA and 8.3 specifically, and I can't help but wonder if they're just like, "Woah, shit. We...thought this was cool. It's so epic to us. I don't understand the disconnect. What...wow, they don't like it."
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Oh, I think they know how some things would land. They knew that ending would not be well-received. They might have been rushed and they are often wrong about things, but just from the level of quality alone I don't think they were deluded about how fans would react.
Got the Royal Snapdragon from the Water Goblin Paragon cache. One less thing to do in Nazjatar!
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I haven't had many issues with them since they upped the spawn rates but they were terrible at launch.
The lesser visions are pretty boring though.
Magni does a lot of damage in those scenarios so there's no real reason to respec, and might be easier to stay alive as blood.
Unholy is generally an incredibly strong solo/questing spec, but you should be fine as Blood if you would rather do that.
Sorry, missed that somehow. Unholy would probably be more efficient in that case, but you should be fine as Blood if you're just going for the quest completion.
So I've only just started to really become aware of the Allied Race character options, and at first I was kinda interested in them.
Then I saw that they all require you to get Exalted reputation status with certain factions? Nah, fuck that. I don't see the point in grinding the same things for hours and hours and hours for reputation, and I don't think that should be a requirement for race unlocks like that.
Get an Achievement that requires you to complete a quest chain, do a dungeon or something, yeah fine. But reputation grinding? Fuck that shite and anyone who signed off on it.
Then I saw that they all require you to get Exalted reputation status with certain factions? Nah, fuck that. I don't see the point in grinding the same things for hours and hours and hours for reputation, and I don't think that should be a requirement for race unlocks like that.
Get an Achievement that requires you to complete a quest chain, do a dungeon or something, yeah fine. But reputation grinding? Fuck that shite and anyone who signed off on it.
The reputation grind is fine in my opinion for the current content allied races, but the ones that came out in Legion should have it removed as that shit is irrelevant. Thankfully I am a reputation whore and must get exalted with everything so it's never a problem for me, but I could see it being annoying as hell for others.
I've been saying they should be Revered since they introduced them.
It's not actually that hard because of how the WQ stuff works, it's more a passive timesink than anything else.
Playing rogue for the first time. I've noticed players of melee characters tend to talk about how important their weapon is, whereas, on casters/healers (what I've spent most of my WoW career playing), weapons are just stat items, like any other piece of equipment.
Should I be caring a lot about stats on my weapon more than other pieces of gear? Like, should I be looking at weapons' speed, and damage per second in the tooltips?
Should I be caring a lot about stats on my weapon more than other pieces of gear? Like, should I be looking at weapons' speed, and damage per second in the tooltips?
Dps is directly related to ilvl, so that's always the most important thing for weapons.
You no longer have to worry about things like speed on weapons, thankfully - they're all normalized based on your class/spec and what you can innately equip. You don't really need to think of melee weapons as anything more than a stat stick either, the main difference is that weapon DPS contributes a significant portion of your overall DPS so they tend to be more important than any other pieces of gear.
I missed the first time it spawned after waiting 20 minutes. So I waited close to 2 hours for the next spawn. I like hunting stuff since I don't raid anymore.
Bored with XIV and kinda want to fuck around with BfA until Shadowlands comes out (And probably hang on w/ that) but I noticed I need BfA to pre order Shadowlands and I'm trying to figure out what the cheapest way to get BfA is right now.
When you say directly related -- they scale up together, the same way core stats like Int and Ago do? Like, on all my characters, I haven't looked at primary stats in forever. I've only considered secondaries that are good for my spec and the overall item level as a way to gauge most gear strength. For melee weapons, any reason to look at DPS specifically or is ilevel sufficient?
And based on the other comments, weapon speed is irrelevant now too. Why even have it as a stat on weapons if speed is normalized? Lol
That's correct. Weapon DPS is purely a function of ilvl, in the same way that primary stats are.
I'm also fairly confident that all weapons of a particular type have the exact same speed now. Think that changed in either Warlords or Legion.
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