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dude. The ability to "interact" with my slew of alts in game has low key been a desire for years. I would love all of this and especially if it were just for player satisfaction and not combat.
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World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth |OT2| Bless Your Heart
- Thread starter Prophet Five
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dude. The ability to "interact" with my slew of alts in game has low key been a desire for years. I would love all of this and especially if it were just for player satisfaction and not combat.
I think you only got a level 3 garrison if you boosted to level 100 with Legion. There was a bug where it let you get one for 110 trial boosts too but they patched that pretty quick after BFA launched. I didn't get it on mine a few weeks after BFA launches when I boosted mine.
Been years since I played, and I can't remember how in depth it was, or how it may have changed since... but The Old Republic had a "family" system that tied all your alts togther that I thought was a pretty clever system.
Mythic plus runs and titanforging has really changed the gear equation. While it used to take us weeks to get through a raid, we are already at 6/8 heroic - mostly because we went in over geared.
Strangely enough, it bothers me. As a GM I've always said that a progressing guild is a happy guild. It is when a guild stops progressing, either because they cannot defeat a boss, or because they run out of new bosses to work on, that is when attendance starts to drop.
I'm not sure I can think of a clear solution to the gear inflation though.
Strangely enough, it bothers me. As a GM I've always said that a progressing guild is a happy guild. It is when a guild stops progressing, either because they cannot defeat a boss, or because they run out of new bosses to work on, that is when attendance starts to drop.
I'm not sure I can think of a clear solution to the gear inflation though.
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I agree with this. I don't have a solution either but the addition of extra gear sources (lfr, M+, Caches, etc) has really blurred the lines of difficulty and natural progression. In some ways, its good because in theory you're never truly stuck unless you can't get past mechanics but it also teeters on the line of making content too easy outside of mechanics since the raid is generally tuned to a static ilvl. I don't mean "too easy" in a snobby way, either. I just mean like steamrolling it with high keystone levels of gear from a decent sub group in your raid team. I believe there's too many sources of gear in the game right now and I know that's not a hugely popular opinion with some sections of the playerbase.
The bigger question for me is whether Blizzard realizes it's a problem. They should be able to look at what average ilvl people are defeating bosses at, disenchant rates for raid gear, etc. to show that raid gear has been devalued by other gear sources and that it's undermining the reward structure for non-Mythic guilds. In the past I would have assumed Blizzard had smart people looking at stuff like that and making informed decisions but they frankly seem to be a bit of a mess right now at every level.
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I'm not sure. I think cosmetics, toys, titles, something like that could be an option for things like LFR since that should be an intro to raiding situation (and I say this as a casual raider) but M+ is something else. I don't believe that all content should reward gear. I know people want alternate gearing paths and that can exist with badges and stuff in some limited capacity but idk. I'm not a game designer so it's not on me to solve the issue - I just know it feels bad to me as a player.
Which is a selfish viewpoint but idk. I don't get upset that I can't get mythic raid gear or like their special bosses because I know I didn't put in that extra work to get them and that doesn't bother me. Maybe that's the thing? People who don't raid feel like they should still be able to get this raid quality gear for raids they're not going to run?
Which is a selfish viewpoint but idk. I don't get upset that I can't get mythic raid gear or like their special bosses because I know I didn't put in that extra work to get them and that doesn't bother me. Maybe that's the thing? People who don't raid feel like they should still be able to get this raid quality gear for raids they're not going to run?
I'm not really sure where I stand on that whole thing. 5 man dungeons being relevant end game content is 100% a good thing and it fucking sucked how quickly they became obsolete in Mists and WoD. And while I can understand "serious" raiders feeling put out that raiding is no longer the only real method of PvE gearing and progression (it's an opinion a lot of folks I know have), it's just not something I care that much about. I just don't really feel like raids have some inherent right to be the superior option to dungeons in 2019 - although I have no issue with mythic raid having higher ilvl than you can achieve in mythic +
That being said, stuff like titanforging definitely exacerbates this sort of thing (even if, again, that's not something I feel nearly as strong about as many who absolutely fucking loathe the concept.) When it comes to LFR, I'd actually be more fine with that being phased out entirely than going back to 5-mans not having a real progression path. I don't hate LFR but its only real purpose at this point is "raid option for people who refuse to do non-queue content" since we don't even have tier sets anymore and flexible size normal raiding is usually pretty puggable until the last boss or two.
That being said, stuff like titanforging definitely exacerbates this sort of thing (even if, again, that's not something I feel nearly as strong about as many who absolutely fucking loathe the concept.) When it comes to LFR, I'd actually be more fine with that being phased out entirely than going back to 5-mans not having a real progression path. I don't hate LFR but its only real purpose at this point is "raid option for people who refuse to do non-queue content" since we don't even have tier sets anymore and flexible size normal raiding is usually pretty puggable until the last boss or two.
I think the progressing guild = happy guild thing makes sense. But I don't think any major issue lies with gear. Gear shouldn't be the goal imo, just the means towards that goal. M+ is great as is. Not sure how it could be improved, if it can be. TF in my book is fine too. It's like a stretch goal in M+ I think. The higher the key the more loot you get, so you get more chances are TF gear. And high M+ can be as hard if not harder than some bosses in mythic raiding. I think TF is great there. TF also gives some people a reason to rerun content, although I definitely don't think gear should be the goal it can help exacerbate the issue where someone may feel like a boss will never drop an upgrade for them because they out gear it.
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I agree with this as well. I think there needs to be a limit to how a piece can WF/TF. A smaller hard cap, not some varying scale or something. Make it more confined that it is already if we're to keep it as a supposed "reward" for killing a boss multiple times when you don't need things out of it. I think M+ is great for dungeon longevity and they should be relevant but I also don't like it sucking the challenge out of the raids as well. You could, in theory, scale everyone's gear down like Timewalking but that also creates other issues. I don't want LFR to go away because I think people should have access to the story but normal mode is just SO EASY TO DO at this point that I don't think LFR should offer anything stronger than base dungeon gear or toys, titles, and the like.
But basically, my biggest point of contention is that the current system kinda erodes the longevity of raiding as the endgame. Blizzard still presents it as the highest tier of content so by eroding it's longevity really, imo, hurts the endgame. They want us to stay subbed and keep playing through but people get bored with it as well and for different reasons than the rep grinds.
I think in the effort to appeal to everyone they've stretched themselves thin balancing each activity and reward around everything and kinda just gave up on it. I think there should be rewards for everyone, regardless of skill, to aspire to but I'm not sure the current model is the best way to handle it.
I think that this is true for some segment of the playerbase but not most. Blizzard has stated time and time again that their data shows clearly that power progression is what motivates players. Personally I view gear as a means to and end and not the primary benefit of raiding but a bad gear reward structure for raiding means that is isn't going to be an attractive or enduring activity for a lot of other players, including my guild mates, and that will still ultimately have the effect of me not raiding when the raid group dissolves due to a lack of interest or constant recruitment problems.
If you look at Heroic final-boss kill rates while guilds were capable of earning AOTC from the last 3 expansions you can see a huge drop-off in BFA, particularly with Uldir:
Part of this could be chalked up to people bailing on BfA for non-raid design reasons. Another part to players who prefer 5-man content feeling like they no longer needed to raid to be competitive. Regardless, the outcome is pretty clear: raid participation has gone down significantly.
It's hard to put the genie back in the bottle but if I were in their shoes I would do the following:
1. Reduce the ilvl of M+ dungeon-end rewards to always be below that of Heroic Raiding. Players should still be able to earn an improved M+ version of any dungeon item by running the dungeon.
2. Leave the Weekly M+ Cache level high (similar to what it is in BfA, scaling up to or beyond Heroic raid ilvl at very high key levels), but restrict what items can drop from the cache to specific slots. (Rings, Necklaces, Trinkets, Bracers, Belt, and possibly Weapons)
3. Bring back Tier sets in Raids and keep them exclusive to that content.
This let's people gear out their character entirely through 5-man content if they want and gives people a power-centric reason to run M+ dungeons for the lifespan of the expansion but still leaves a lot of compelling reward-space for raids.
My understanding was that your boosted character only got it if you boosted a max level trial, rather than an actual boost of a lower level character.
I remain baffled when critiques of BFA (and other games) come up and there's never a single mention of art, sound, visual design, etc. To me, that's almost as substantive a measure of a great MMO/RPG as the gameplay. And BFA knocks all of those out of the park. To see BFA get so totally and so universally lashed so often pisses me off. Haha
Check the various Nazjatar and Rustbolt rep guides for all the avenues to get rep. Of the top of my head, you should look into:
- Advancing your follower levels and getting 3k Xp for them total in Nazjatar to unlock the questlines that award more rep
- Do pet battles in Nazjatar and Mechagon for lots of extra rep (the WQ for that pet doesn't need to be up for this --- you can do ALL the pet battles any time)
- Certain rares that require manual activation in Nazjatar have a decent chance to drop rep items
- Contracts are affordable now (recommend doing Ankoan/Unshackled since Rustbolt rep is 1k rep a day easy and should be ahead of the Naz rep if you're doing both daily) and while they only award 10 rep, it adds up if you're doing a bunch of WQs every day --- and they're worth doing again since the item level for WQ and emissaries have all gone up to 415 or higher)
- And definitely make sure you're doing the big WQ for Mech every day -- it awards 850 rep
- And investigate all the extra dailies hidden around Mechagon. Check out the entire zone for more every day, not just in Rustbolt. And the next time you can go to the alternate future with Chromie, kill lots of shit to get the blueprint for a Temporal device so that you can go back every day, even if Chromie isn't up, because rep dailies will be up in Alt Future every day
I am super not a fan of troll theming. or almost anything about trolls. I was not too impressed with the horde zones either, especially the desert one.
But in general aesthetics is one of those things that can't make an unsatisfying game, or bad game design, good. Yeah you're looking at nice things but so what? if the underlying loop sucks all the fun out of it, who cares
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I find all the things you mentioned to be great consistently. Every expansion amps it up and is always good for its time (minus the Cataclysm grass texture in Hyjal that I inexplicably hate) but I treat the art direction and that kind of thing to be a separate entity from the systems part of an expansion.
That's what gets me...the loop is the same that it was in Legion, no? The Heart is less satisfying than Artifacts were, aesthetically and mechanically, though Essences remedied the latter imo, and then some.
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I just mentioned this in the discord but I really like that they're tying story into the Heart of Azeroth upgrades. Feels like order hall lite - which is a good thing imo. I doubt we'll get order halls/similar for all classes again anytime soon but this makes leveling the heart even more rewarding.
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I would love something like this. Especially the last idea of having access to professions/maybe other stuff while playing any one of your characters. I've been abusing the mail system for years, I'd love if they would finally come up with something better.
I mean okay but I still disagree with what perhaps is the majority playerbase motivation. And I think that is okay. I like getting gear too. Who doesn't? But I think people may be happier if they aim for progression and not some largely illusory, although effective, power ladder. Again, I am not trying to put a negativity into the issue, I just think that is what people should focus on. I don't even think they should make gear sidegrades or whatever... I think power verticality is fine. But I think it should not be the goal. And I actually think blizzard somewhat agrees with me here because of how easy and the variety of ways there actually are to get higher power gear in the game. Back in the day, in classic you had to actually devote time to get gear. Nowadays you can get a close to mythic raid tier piece by just completing a single M+ 10 dungeon, not even on time, every single week. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think that's fine.
I know there is a chance my post will be taken negatively. Truth is I don't feel negatively about people who approach the game with gear being the goal. That's okay. I just think they'd be happier if they adjusted their mindset. That's all. I play with people like that, they're my friends. I don't judge them. Whatever makes them happy, awesome.
I know, way back when I did the raid thing, the guilds I was in were always happiest when we were progressing. The gear wasn't even really a concern, it was just about being able to see the next boss and that feeling of progressing. The gear was only useful insofar as it allowed us to do that easier.
The many avenues to gain powerful gear now I think has actually hurt people motivation to play. I think Raiding (Also High rated PvP) should be the only way to obtain the best gear, followed by Mythic+ and then heroic/normal dungeons then lastly WQ and other minor things like warfronts.
There's just way too many ways to have Heroic or even Mythic level raiding gear w/o stepping into a raid which I think isn't good. Maybe I'm being elitist (hell, I don't even raid, or not thins xpac) but the best gear should be from raiding. Mythic+ should have it's limit to Mythic, but only when you're pushing something crazy high, but they should use Mythic+ to reward cosmetic rewards like mounts, titles, transmog and other cool shit, not power progression.
There's just way too many ways to have Heroic or even Mythic level raiding gear w/o stepping into a raid which I think isn't good. Maybe I'm being elitist (hell, I don't even raid, or not thins xpac) but the best gear should be from raiding. Mythic+ should have it's limit to Mythic, but only when you're pushing something crazy high, but they should use Mythic+ to reward cosmetic rewards like mounts, titles, transmog and other cool shit, not power progression.
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Lord, I'm exhausted. I meant the heart of Azeroth. I'll edit that post.
But each tier of M+ is an increasingly difficult challenge. How would you become equipped to work your way up the tiers to M10, M15, etc.? And the difficulty increase isn't just mechanical, it's a straight up numbers fight, too. You need higher stats to survive.
I think it's important that the mode remains a viable upgrade system that stands alone. I wouldn't cry about the max rewards from it being a bit lower than the max rewards from raiding, but who's actually doing M+ enough to reliably gear from it alone? I'm speaking as someone who only has the time and energy to join like a couple M+ groups a week, tops.
They implement many ways to make gear from raid, M+, and pvp worth getting. I'm not seeing the same problem as you are. M+ has gear that largely never changes, just goes up in ilvl. Raid has unique azerite traits, unique trinkets, and unique text added to gear. Have they nailed every raid? No. Can they do better? Sure, absolutely. This time the raid actually has good trinkets, unlike last two tiers (for my spec at least). And they look fun too. Even in Uldir you wanted the raid azerite trait, which you could only get from raiding.
I think cross over is a good thing. It would be a problem if it was actually required, but I don't think it is. For the best of the best? Yeah, okay maybe it's required but that's like... if you're in the mythic the first week trying to clear world first kind of shit.
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Alliance are fucking useless. War mode always stays off for me, they literally run by as you're fighting 3 horde, the pricks.
well boys. we tried
One tiny thing I think I'd change is to have the best M+ rewards from the chest require a completion within the time limit. I've run so many +10s outside the time limit, which gives me the full-strength reward but doesn't feel like I've completed the full challenge, if you see what I mean. Particularly iffy last season where failing the time limit on a +10 would give you a big buff meaning you've got a very good chance of finishing the place off.
There's a fair argument that the gear is the reward for getting your stone to a +10 anyway - which of course does require completions in time - but that's a little offset by the fact that it's sometimes a single guildie who gets their stone to a +10 then shares it with the guild; there's one guildie in ours who's very generous in that regard, and I think it's stuff like that that perhaps tips things a little too much towards M+.
There's a fair argument that the gear is the reward for getting your stone to a +10 anyway - which of course does require completions in time - but that's a little offset by the fact that it's sometimes a single guildie who gets their stone to a +10 then shares it with the guild; there's one guildie in ours who's very generous in that regard, and I think it's stuff like that that perhaps tips things a little too much towards M+.
Still not seeing a real problem with M+ or it's progression. OTOH, I like mythic raids but it can be an issue to go from heroic to mythic and maintain it due to 20 person requirement. Heroic can get easy pretty quickly and mythic can be a bit of a roadblock. Maybe they can look into easing that a bit, perhaps.
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That's a crushing disappointment.
Nope. It's 10. it adds up if you're doing a lot of WQs over the week but it still sucks and almost feels like it isn't worth it.
Good news though - it stacks with Darkmoon Faire so you can get 11 rep per WQ on those weeks.
(I'm sorry)
It's the absolute worst part of the game. They really need to do something to overhaul that system.
Yeah, no point levelling my alts without flying though :(
Well there is, but fuck that
Well considering most World quests give 75 rep, the current method of 10 extra rep is more than 10%.
Touché. I stand by them needing to award more though. Whatever the math. 25-30 (not %)
My personal must haves:
Angry Keystones
Deadly Boss Mods (if your leveling you may want the older DBM packs as well)
Fishing Buddy (if your gonna fish)
Garrison Mission Manager (includes BFA table)
Handy Notes and the Warfront Rares plugin (puts a marker on your map and lets you know if the rare drops anything your missing)
MBB (all those little mini map icons for addons? It sticks them in a drawer so they only take up one round button by your mini map)
PetJournal Enhanced (does lots for pet battlers)
Rematch (stores your teams for various pet battle WQ's and trainers so you don't have to remember all the combinations)
TomTom (map cords)
World Quest Tracker
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