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World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth |OT2| Bless Your Heart

Calles

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,071
A WoW 2 would be just more of the same and possibly worse stuff like microtransactions. At best it'd be an expansion that would have the same issues and problems, if not right away then given time.
 

Nora

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,291
A WoW 2 will never happen. It certainly wouldn't be another MMO like this. There's really no reason to make it and it makes no financial sense, MMOs are way too expensive to develop and the market for new ones is practically non-existent. Even Blizzard gave up with Titan.

I'm sure there will be another game set in the Warcraft universe some day, but it won't be WoW 2.
 

Sophie

Member
Oct 28, 2017
100
Plus whatever they could’ve put in WoW 2 they can do as patches and expansions (which is essentially what they’ve already been doing), for far less the money that creating and promoting and entirely new game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,173
I think there will be a WOW 2. I think classic launch shows how much weight the IP still holds. And you'd all be day 1 lol

Part of the cool thing about classic is that my guild and my friends and I are all starting from scratch at the same time. It's like starting a new game tbh, even though it's the one we were playing just in an older state.
 

Berordn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,825
Orlando, FL
The WoW 2 debate isn't really new either way, people are just bringing it up again because they see Classic as a wrinkle in that.

But that just makes it less likely imo, are they going to be running 3 separate WoW titles concurrently, when every other expansion to Retail is basically a sequel anyway? Even if WoW 2 marked the end of content updates for Retail, it's not like they'd be bringing it offline.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,293
Gotta say i still like classic but playing it again has me appreciating the QoL stuff we have on retail
 
OP
OP
Milo Rambaldi

Milo Rambaldi

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,190
Florida
The WoW 2 debate isn't really new either way, people are just bringing it up again because they see Classic as a wrinkle in that.

But that just makes it less likely imo, are they going to be running 3 separate WoW titles concurrently, when every other expansion to Retail is basically a sequel anyway? Even if WoW 2 marked the end of content updates for Retail, it's not like they'd be bringing it offline.
I was having the "3 concurrent versions" discussion earlier.

It's not going to happen.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
O-H-I-O
WoW 2 isn't happening nor does it make sense to happen. Other MMO's have tried to have a 2nd version and most if not all failed, Final Fantasy XIV being an exception to FF XI but not really the same thing in this case. People don't want to abandon what they have done to start over in the same world. Anyway I still think Classic is going to push for some major changes in retail, and I am here for it.
 

Bregor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
426
The problem with WoW2 is that some of us have built communities we love withing WoW Retail, and any new and seperate game meant as a replacement risks splitting up and destroying those communities.
 

data west

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,897
WoW 2 isn't happening nor does it make sense to happen. Other MMO's have tried to have a 2nd version and most if not all failed, Final Fantasy XIV being an exception to FF XI but not really the same thing in this case. People don't want to abandon what they have done to start over in the same world. Anyway I still think Classic is going to push for some major changes in retail, and I am here for it.
Lineage 2
Guild Wars 2

Really people have to stop looking at Everquest 2 as somehow the standard that a MMO sequel will automatically fail(and EQ 2 is still alive)
 

ffmafia

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13
Any guilds on Eldre'Thalas for alliance? I'd like to get into some casual raiding again beyond raid finder. Also, are there class sets still? I downloaded a mod I used to use called atlasloot and I don't see tokens or class items for the bosses in the raids. I'm not familiar with how WoW currently does it.
 

Rhaknar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,283
all this classic talk im seeing all around me (my friends list on bnet is all playing it) did was make me want the next expansion.

specifically, I really want the Tinker to be real. Im jonesing for a new pet class (I assume the Tinker would have turrets and shit). Wow expansion launch time, that first month or whatever, is still some of my favorite gaming around :/

If i'm setting myself up for disapointment regarding the supposed Tinker, tell me now so I dont spend the next 8 months agonizing. Well, I guess it would be 2 months until Blizzcon and they announce the expansion, but still!
 

Berordn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,825
Orlando, FL
Any guilds on Eldre'Thalas for alliance? I'd like to get into some casual raiding again beyond raid finder. Also, are there class sets still? I downloaded a mod I used to use called atlasloot and I don't see tokens or class items for the bosses in the raids. I'm not familiar with how WoW currently does it.
There's no class sets in BFA since Azerite Traits do something similar... in theory. There's a pretty good chance they'll return next expansion given the reception to the system, unless they push a new gimmick.
 
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Darkstorne

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,892
England
Plus whatever they could’ve put in WoW 2 they can do as patches and expansions (which is essentially what they’ve already been doing), for far less the money that creating and promoting and entirely new game.
There is a case to be made for console support though, like FFXIV and ESO, and even smaller MMOs like TERA and Black Desert. Huge potential market there, and I kinda feel like WoW needs to tap into that to retain leadership position and revitalise its playerbase next gen.

I do hope that's achievable with patches, but I'm not sure how well the game translates. I've tried the controller addon and while it's impressive, it's clear that WoW's interface and encounters aren't built for this. But that could be what Classic now allows Blizzard to do with retail - a big UI overhaul, controller support as an option, an old-world graphics overhaul, and a launch on next gen consoles. I feel like without that kind of overhaul, WoW has absolutely no chance of surviving against the next wave of MMOs built with next gen consoles in mind. The competition won't be ESO and FFXIV soon, but next gen MMOs and MMO-likes (Destiny 3, Division 3, presumably some kind of Star Wars Destiny-like etc).
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,173
I don't agree with them changing WoW to be comparable to making WoW 2. While Classic feels like a different game, that change took multiple expansions. There is only so much they can do in one new iteration of the game, especially being tied down by past choices, even if not every decision.

I think a new MMO launch like classic shows is an experience that a lot of people want to be a part of. And be it 4+ years or whatever, I think WoW 2 is definitely coming. But developing a stellar success of a game like WoW classic took years and years, and I don't expect WoW 2 to be any different. I'd imagine that Warcraft 4 would come out before WoW 2 though to bridge the story.
 

Nora

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,291
There's never gonna be a World of Warcraft 2 lol. Another game in the Warcraft franchise, almost certainly. A direct sequel to WoW that is also an MMO? Never gonna happen.
 

Nora

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,291
People also said bliz would never do wow classic so...

It's not like sequels to blockbuster franchises are rare.
Those aren't remotely the same thing. In short, the reasons WoW 2 will never happen:

1) There's no market for MMOs. Out of the entire history of MMOs, the true successes can probably be counted on two hands. They're outliers. This article was a pretty interesting read on the topic of target audiences: https://galyonk.in/your-target-audience-doesn-t-exist-999b78aa77ae

2) It would take an obscene amount of time and money to make a world even just the size of Classic with today's production values.

3) Blizzard isn't what it used to be now that they're with Activision. They're much more focused on the bottom line and won't spend 8 years developing a single game anymore.

Following from 1 and 2, it's an incredible risk that they would frankly be stupid to take. Why do that when WoW is still doing just fine, even though it's nowhere near peak popularity? A WoW 2 is very far from a guaranteed success. You can't capture lightning in a bottle twice. They tried with Titan and they scrapped it.

If they wanted to renew interest in WoW they could simply do a soft reboot like they did with Cataclysm. But they will never, ever make WoW 2. I'll happily eat crow if they do, I just think it's financial suicide to make a brand new MMO in this day and age of GaaS games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,173
Those aren't remotely the same thing. In short, the reasons WoW 2 will never happen:

1) There's no market for MMOs. Out of the entire history of MMOs, the true successes can probably be counted on two hands. They're outliers. This article was a pretty interesting read on the topic of target audiences: https://galyonk.in/your-target-audience-doesn-t-exist-999b78aa77ae

2) It would take an obscene amount of time and money to make a world even just the size of Classic with today's production values.

3) Blizzard isn't what it used to be now that they're with Activision. They're much more focused on the bottom line and won't spend 8 years developing a single game anymore.

Following from 1 and 2, it's an incredible risk that they would frankly be stupid to take. Why do that when WoW is still doing just fine, even though it's nowhere near peak popularity? A WoW 2 is very far from a guaranteed success. You can't capture lightning in a bottle twice. They tried with Titan and they scrapped it.

If they wanted to renew interest in WoW they could simply do a soft reboot like they did with Cataclysm. But they will never, ever make WoW 2. I'll happily eat crow if they do, I just think it's financial suicide to make a brand new MMO in this day and age of GaaS games.
They wouldn't spend 8 years developing a game that could make them crazy amounts of money for 15 years and rerelease again? Titan was in development for 7 years before being scrapped. How can you make this claim? Bottom line, WoW has been crazy successful to the point that re-releasing it 15 years later is also wildly successful.

Your other two points are not even compelling to me. Blizzard sets trends. Where was the hero shooter market before overwatch? Even Diablo 3 put the genre back on the map despite being one of their weakest launches. Hearthstone? Even Magic the gathering has tried (I guess successfully with arena, I haven't played it) to copy their success in the digital format. Out of the entire history of MMOs, WOW is still pretty much top dog in terms of success. Even if it doesn't top OG WoW, that is not a good reason to not pursue it.

I'm not personally clamoring for WoW 2 but I know people's heads would spin in excitement if it was announced.
 
OP
OP
Milo Rambaldi

Milo Rambaldi

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,190
Florida
Those aren't remotely the same thing. In short, the reasons WoW 2 will never happen:

1) There's no market for MMOs. Out of the entire history of MMOs, the true successes can probably be counted on two hands. They're outliers. This article was a pretty interesting read on the topic of target audiences: https://galyonk.in/your-target-audience-doesn-t-exist-999b78aa77ae

2) It would take an obscene amount of time and money to make a world even just the size of Classic with today's production values.

3) Blizzard isn't what it used to be now that they're with Activision. They're much more focused on the bottom line and won't spend 8 years developing a single game anymore.

Following from 1 and 2, it's an incredible risk that they would frankly be stupid to take. Why do that when WoW is still doing just fine, even though it's nowhere near peak popularity? A WoW 2 is very far from a guaranteed success. You can't capture lightning in a bottle twice. They tried with Titan and they scrapped it.

If they wanted to renew interest in WoW they could simply do a soft reboot like they did with Cataclysm. But they will never, ever make WoW 2. I'll happily eat crow if they do, I just think it's financial suicide to make a brand new MMO in this day and age of GaaS games.
You are 100% correct with all of this.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,761
Agree with all that WoW 2 isn't going to happen.

Felt like doing a big thought-dump post of what I hope and think is around the corner at Blizzcon. I truly think we're in store for a LOT of the below with whatever they reveal next because a) they've been talking forever about how the team is larger than ever and we've gotta be seeing the fruits of that labour soon, and b) they know they have to right the ship and fix the narrative surrounding BFA/WoW.

Hope I don't eat crow on most of this, but here's what I hope for and anticipate:

I fully expect an expansion reveal at Blizzcon that does a hard 180 on a lot of BFA stuff that people didn't like and gives in to fan demand for all the things that they love that worked in the past:

1. Systems/World/Community:
- Reduced phasing/sharding wherever possible (accompanied by a lot of talk about how they want server communities/reputation to matter again, probably coupled with the introduction of some kind of kudos system like Overwatch)
- The breaking of some QOL measures (WQ addons, group finder stuff) that will be a brute-force attempt to bring social/community back into Retail
- Doubling-down on 'public events' (Legion invasions, Faction Assaults, etc.) with something happening somewhere in the world at ALL times to bring people out of the cities, into the world, and grouping up for extra incentives.
- (HALF-BAKED IDEA ALERT): Maybe some new kind of reward for repeat-grouping with the same folks; it certainly incentivizes guilds....but is that a bad thing? It'll foster connections and encourage people to bond with players they like. AND/OR:
- (HALF-BAKED IDEA ALERT, AGAIN): AND/OR: Maybe some kind of 'adoption' system, where folks can also be rewarded for taking folks under their wing, group with them for the first time, IDK, I'm not a game designer, but I think there's a kernel of an idea somewhere here.

2. Class and/or Race-specific content
- Class/Race-specific quests
- Class/Race-exclusive gear/mounts
- Fuck, maybe even the return of order halls
- The return of class/race-exclusive abilities, but this time, totally cosmetic/RP in flavour. No fucking imba shit like fear wards.

3. Flying:
- A less severe Pathfinder grind
- Flying available by 9.1
- A greater emphasis on content that requires flying, to make it feel more part of the world rather than the 'cheat code' we all unlock in the X.2 patch of a cycle

4. Gear:
- The return of a less randomized expansion-long gearing system (think more like artifacts and less like Azerite gear)
- The return of tier sets (SUCH an easy win that'll get positive buzz)
- The return of legendary items (I think people LOVED this shit and it was a vocal minority that lambasted Blizzard for them -- they can and will probably just add a spendy vendor to reduce the randomness and allow people to work toward the leggos they want, just like the Titan Residuum shit)

5. New/Fun/Yay Shit:
- A new class and a new couple of (allied) races, which I don't think has happened in any expansion besides Pandaria and is sure to get buzz. The races will be two big ones people have probably wanted forever, like Ogres or whatever.
- The class will obviously be the Tinker based on all the leaks. It'll be totally unlike any other class in terms of its progression; you'll probably be in a mech or some shit, and get to customize all sorts of shit about it with parts and shit.
- I expect some kind of new cosmetic thing in the vein of xmog, pets, titles and mounts, but IDK what it'll be yet; I think they know they have winners on their hands will all that shit, b/c it sucks up people's time, it's fun, it adds flavour the world, and adding stuff to old content loot tables is probably some really low-investment stuff from a development perspective.

6. Levelling:
- IDK how they'll do it, but I'm sure this is where we'll the level smoosh. It'll be 1-60 again, probably. Levels will be meaningful again, you'll get something new and fun every level (whether it's a new critical skill, a customizable spend/talent point, or a new flavour ability that doesn't bloat your rotation).
- I feel like they might even do some kind of paragon level shit, where people can go through 1-60 repeatedly if they want to earn new cosmetic rewards, which will also inject more bodies back into the levelling pool, making the world more alive.

7. Marketing/Promotions:
- It'll be billed as another reboot, like Cataclysm was.
- It'll be billed as the best way for new players to start WoW ever, since 1.0, particularly with the one-two punch of the leveling overhaul and the dissolution of the faction barrier (anyone can play with anyone, and they can do it much more quickly).
- There'll be a bunch of Classic/Current cross-promotion. Nothing in-game specifically, but stuff like that Brazilian Facebook contest. (cap a Classic character and get a boost/BFA for free, etc.). They'll want to get audiences for both games playing the other one, I think.
- They'll do something 'shocking' with the price. I predict a sub drop to $9.99.

And...I honestly think all the speculation's been on point and we're looking at either faction dissolution or the ability to 'defect' or whatever. OR (and I liberally lift this idea from something I read on reddit or here), there are two 'new' factions. A new alliance and a new horde, and everyone will be forced to choose which they join, but there will always be some kind of way to defect (maybe on a one-month cooldown or something with a pretty heavy timesink in-game). The idea I remember reading was about possible factions surrounding the Light/Holy and the Dark/Void, but I honestly think that the branding and iconography of Alliance and Horde is too strong to give up, so there'll just be a 'reforged' Alliance a 'reforged' Horde and every character will be like a Pandaren character -- free to make the choice of where they want to go. They know they have to bring that barrier down eventually for so many reasons, AND, can you IMAGINE the positive buzz it'll bring the game? Talk about breathing new life into it.


(and yeah, for story/content, we know what we're probably getting: N'Zoth, Old Gods, Black Empire, Wrathion drama, etc. along with - HOPEFULLY - a ton of great drama and character moments related to the faction barriers coming down and the decades-long faction war being over)

Am I NUTS, or do you also think Blizzard is ready to knock our fucking pants off with a return to form for the next expansion?

This post was brought to you by the aftermath of a caffeine and food-induced panic attack that persisted all fucking afternoon so I just had to get some fucking energy out of my system. Don't fucking drink 6 cups of coffee, kids. YAY
 
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OP
Milo Rambaldi

Milo Rambaldi

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,190
Florida
Agree with all that WoW 2 isn't going to happen.

Felt like doing a big thought-dump post of what I hope and think is around the corner at Blizzcon. I truly think we're in store for a LOT of the below with whatever they reveal next because a) they've been talking forever about how the team is larger than ever and we've gotta be seeing the fruits of that labour soon, and b) they know they have to right the ship and fix the narrative surrounding BFA/WoW.

Hope I don't eat crow on most of this, but here's what I hope for and anticipate:

I fully expect an expansion reveal at Blizzcon that does a hard 180 on a lot of BFA stuff that people didn't like and gives in to fan demand for all the things that they love that worked in the past:

1. Systems/World/Community:
- Reduced phasing/sharding wherever possible (accompanied by a lot of talk about how they want server communities/reputation to matter again, probably coupled with the introduction of some kind of kudos system like Overwatch)
- The breaking of some QOL measures (WQ addons, group finder stuff) that will be a brute-force attempt to bring social/community back into Retail
- Doubling-down on 'public events' (Legion invasions, Faction Assaults, etc.) with something happening somewhere in the world at ALL times to bring people out of the cities, into the world, and grouping up for extra incentives.
- (HALF-BAKED IDEA ALERT): Maybe some new kind of reward for repeat-grouping with the same folks; it certainly incentivizes guilds....but is that a bad thing? It'll foster connections and encourage people to bond with players they like. AND/OR:
- (HALF-BAKED IDEA ALERT, AGAIN): AND/OR: Maybe some kind of 'adoption' system, where folks can also be rewarded for taking folks under their wing, group with them for the first time, IDK, I'm not a game designer, but I think there's a kernel of an idea somewhere here.

2. Class and/or Race-specific content
- Class/Race-specific quests
- Class/Race-exclusive gear/mounts
- Fuck, maybe even the return of order halls
- The return of class/race-exclusive abilities, but this time, totally cosmetic/RP in flavour. No fucking imba shit like fear wards.

3. Flying:
- A less severe Pathfinder grind
- Flying available by 9.1
- A greater emphasis on content that requires flying, to make it feel more part of the world rather than the 'cheat code' we all unlock in the X.2 patch of a cycle

4. Gear:
- The return of a less randomized expansion-long gearing system (think more like artifacts and less like Azerite gear)
- The return of tier sets (SUCH an easy win that'll get positive buzz)
- The return of legendary items (I think people LOVED this shit and it was a vocal minority that lambasted Blizzard for them -- they can and will probably just add a spendy vendor to reduce the randomness and allow people to work toward the leggos they want, just like the Titan Residuum shit)

5. New/Fun/Yay Shit:
- A new class and a new couple of (allied) races, which I don't think has happened in any expansion besides Pandaria and is sure to get buzz. The races will be two big ones people have probably wanted forever, like Ogres or whatever.
- The class will obviously be the Tinker based on all the leaks. It'll be totally unlike any other class in terms of its progression; you'll probably be in a mech or some shit, and get to customize all sorts of shit about it with parts and shit.
- I expect some kind of new cosmetic thing in the vein of xmog, pets, titles and mounts, but IDK what it'll be yet; I think they know they have winners on their hands will all that shit, b/c it sucks up people's time, it's fun, it adds flavour the world, and adding stuff to old content loot tables is probably some really low-investment stuff from a development perspective.

6. Levelling:
- IDK how they'll do it, but I'm sure this is where we'll the level smoosh. It'll be 1-60 again, probably. Levels will be meaningful again, you'll get something new and fun every level (whether it's a new critical skill, a customizable spend/talent point, or a new flavour ability that doesn't bloat your rotation).
- I feel like they might even do some kind of paragon level shit, where people can go through 1-60 repeatedly if they want to earn new cosmetic rewards, which will also inject more bodies back into the levelling pool, making the world more alive.

7. Marketing/Promotions:
- It'll be billed as another reboot, like Cataclysm was.
- It'll be billed as the best way for new players to start WoW ever, since 1.0, particularly with the one-two punch of the leveling overhaul and the dissolution of the faction barrier (anyone can play with anyone, and they can do it much more quickly).
- There'll be a bunch of Classic/Current cross-promotion. Nothing in-game specifically, but stuff like that Brazilian Facebook contest. (cap a Classic character and get a boost/BFA for free, etc.). They'll want to get audiences for both games playing the other one, I think.
- They'll do something 'shocking' with the price. I predict a sub drop to $9.99.

And...I honestly think all the speculation's been on point and we're looking at either faction dissolution or the ability to 'defect' or whatever. OR (and I liberally lift this idea from something I read on reddit or here), there are two 'new' factions. A new alliance and a new horde, and everyone will be forced to choose which they join, but there will always be some kind of way to defect (maybe on a one-month cooldown or something with a pretty heavy timesink in-game). The idea I remember reading was about possible factions surrounding the Light/Holy and the Dark/Void, but I honestly think that the branding and iconography of Alliance and Horde is too strong to give up, so there'll just be a 'reforged' Alliance a 'reforged' Horde and every character will be like a Pandaren character -- free to make the choice of where they want to go. They know they have to bring that barrier down eventually for so many reasons, AND, can you IMAGINE the positive buzz it'll bring the game? Talk about breathing new life into it.


(and yeah, for story/content, we know what we're probably getting: N'Zoth, Old Gods, Black Empire, Wrathion drama, etc. along with - HOPEFULLY - a ton of great drama and character moments related to the faction barriers coming down and the decades-long faction war being over)

Am I NUTS, or do you also think Blizzard is ready to knock our fucking pants off with a return to form for the next expansion?

This post was brought to you by the aftermath of a caffeine and food-induced panic attack that persisted all fucking afternoon so I just had to get some fucking energy out of my system. Don't fucking drink 6 cups of coffee, kids. YAY
I’m too tired to properly respond but I like most of this and agree.

Unrelated but I know they just launched Classic and stuff but man the 8.2.5 drip feed just.... stopped. Hopefully we get some more info or whatever this week. I want my goblin models!
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,761
I’m too tired to properly respond but I like most of this and agree.

Unrelated but I know they just launched Classic and stuff but man the 8.2.5 drip feed just.... stopped. Hopefully we get some more info or whatever this week. I want my goblin models!
But they're so small. How would you even notice the diff.

(looooool)
 

FloBoJo

Member
Nov 5, 2017
12
Maybe not in name but we can certainly get a "WoW 2" as a new expansion. What is making Classic so great now and always talked about in our fond memories? "The journey of the character".

Most expansions are fun roller-coasters to endgame but really nothing sticks out while leveling. I'm pretty certain you cannot do an Kalmidor/EK sized content dump for the equivalent of 60 levels, however pushing the benchmark to a new 20 levels (instead of the standard 10) and having it take time may help. Raiding is at its most accessible and enjoyed by a lot but did anyone actually start playing the game because of it?

Aside from the amount of content another way to make the journey take more time is difficulty. The struggle is real in Classic because a mangy furblog or stinky murloc can do you in. Stripping down our toolset to those early level limits is not possible, but maybe implementing Island AI across the board could put the danger back into the world. And also not having zones scale! So you can see this big imposing ominous land and say "Ima get to you" (but then if grouping implement scaling).

Making new Azeroth as busy as Classic. Not to the point of 3-hour queues but there are a lot of struggling servers even with the connected realms. Instead of expanding sharding/LFG, start condensing to get those pops back over Medium. Especially with the world so large now.
 
OP
OP
Milo Rambaldi

Milo Rambaldi

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,190
Florida
Maybe not in name but we can certainly get a "WoW 2" as a new expansion. What is making Classic so great now and always talked about in our fond memories? "The journey of the character".

Most expansions are fun roller-coasters to endgame but really nothing sticks out while leveling. I'm pretty certain you cannot do an Kalmidor/EK sized content dump for the equivalent of 60 levels, however pushing the benchmark to a new 20 levels (instead of the standard 10) and having it take time may help. Raiding is at its most accessible and enjoyed by a lot but did anyone actually start playing the game because of it?

Aside from the amount of content another way to make the journey take more time is difficulty. The struggle is real in Classic because a mangy furblog or stinky murloc can do you in. Stripping down our toolset to those early level limits is not possible, but maybe implementing Island AI across the board could put the danger back into the world. And also not having zones scale! So you can see this big imposing ominous land and say "Ima get to you" (but then if grouping implement scaling).

Making new Azeroth as busy as Classic. Not to the point of 3-hour queues but there are a lot of struggling servers even with the connected realms. Instead of expanding sharding/LFG, start condensing to get those pops back over Medium. Especially with the world so large now.
Classic being great is an opinion, yes. Make leveling more relevant, sure, but don't make it a struggle or a test of patience. I'm not 19 anymore - I want to hit cap in a couple of days and start preparing for raids. That's where the fun lies in the game. Leveling new content is fun once or twice but after that I want it over with so I can get someone else ready for the raid experience.

It's been like this since Wrath at the least (when I personally started raiding) and nearly every person who plays this game will tell you "that (level cap) is where the real game begins" so making it take longer to get there is not a great idea. Since Classic is a thing now let the journey stay there and let retail continue to evolve.
 

Berordn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,825
Orlando, FL
Most expansions are fun roller-coasters to endgame but really nothing sticks out while leveling. I'm pretty certain you cannot do an Kalmidor/EK sized content dump for the equivalent of 60 levels, however pushing the benchmark to a new 20 levels (instead of the standard 10) and having it take time may help. Raiding is at its most accessible and enjoyed by a lot but did anyone actually start playing the game because of it?
For a time, this actually was a driving goal behind a lot of people I got to play with me. Seeing the level of complexity and coordination of endgame raiding was their driving motivation, particularly working as a team to do these otherwise insurmountable challenges. I'm sure I'm not alone with those examples, they probably wouldn't have changed the design of the game in Wrath to put so much emphasis on them if it were just a small contingent of players.

While it clearly isn't the case today (especially given the popularity of Classic), at the time people did want something more in line with a lobby game and that's what they slowly turned Retail into. They certainly could do it in reverse, and they have been slowly working towards that, with the continued deemphasis of matchmade content and using carrots like World Quests to get people back into the world.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,355
Agree with all that WoW 2 isn't going to happen.

Felt like doing a big thought-dump post of what I hope and think is around the corner at Blizzcon. I truly think we're in store for a LOT of the below with whatever they reveal next because a) they've been talking forever about how the team is larger than ever and we've gotta be seeing the fruits of that labour soon, and b) they know they have to right the ship and fix the narrative surrounding BFA/WoW.

Hope I don't eat crow on most of this, but here's what I hope for and anticipate:

I fully expect an expansion reveal at Blizzcon that does a hard 180 on a lot of BFA stuff that people didn't like and gives in to fan demand for all the things that they love that worked in the past:

1. Systems/World/Community:
- Reduced phasing/sharding wherever possible (accompanied by a lot of talk about how they want server communities/reputation to matter again, probably coupled with the introduction of some kind of kudos system like Overwatch)
- The breaking of some QOL measures (WQ addons, group finder stuff) that will be a brute-force attempt to bring social/community back into Retail
- Doubling-down on 'public events' (Legion invasions, Faction Assaults, etc.) with something happening somewhere in the world at ALL times to bring people out of the cities, into the world, and grouping up for extra incentives.
- (HALF-BAKED IDEA ALERT): Maybe some new kind of reward for repeat-grouping with the same folks; it certainly incentivizes guilds....but is that a bad thing? It'll foster connections and encourage people to bond with players they like. AND/OR:
- (HALF-BAKED IDEA ALERT, AGAIN): AND/OR: Maybe some kind of 'adoption' system, where folks can also be rewarded for taking folks under their wing, group with them for the first time, IDK, I'm not a game designer, but I think there's a kernel of an idea somewhere here.

2. Class and/or Race-specific content
- Class/Race-specific quests
- Class/Race-exclusive gear/mounts
- Fuck, maybe even the return of order halls
- The return of class/race-exclusive abilities, but this time, totally cosmetic/RP in flavour. No fucking imba shit like fear wards.

3. Flying:
- A less severe Pathfinder grind
- Flying available by 9.1
- A greater emphasis on content that requires flying, to make it feel more part of the world rather than the 'cheat code' we all unlock in the X.2 patch of a cycle

4. Gear:
- The return of a less randomized expansion-long gearing system (think more like artifacts and less like Azerite gear)
- The return of tier sets (SUCH an easy win that'll get positive buzz)
- The return of legendary items (I think people LOVED this shit and it was a vocal minority that lambasted Blizzard for them -- they can and will probably just add a spendy vendor to reduce the randomness and allow people to work toward the leggos they want, just like the Titan Residuum shit)

5. New/Fun/Yay Shit:
- A new class and a new couple of (allied) races, which I don't think has happened in any expansion besides Pandaria and is sure to get buzz. The races will be two big ones people have probably wanted forever, like Ogres or whatever.
- The class will obviously be the Tinker based on all the leaks. It'll be totally unlike any other class in terms of its progression; you'll probably be in a mech or some shit, and get to customize all sorts of shit about it with parts and shit.
- I expect some kind of new cosmetic thing in the vein of xmog, pets, titles and mounts, but IDK what it'll be yet; I think they know they have winners on their hands will all that shit, b/c it sucks up people's time, it's fun, it adds flavour the world, and adding stuff to old content loot tables is probably some really low-investment stuff from a development perspective.

6. Levelling:
- IDK how they'll do it, but I'm sure this is where we'll the level smoosh. It'll be 1-60 again, probably. Levels will be meaningful again, you'll get something new and fun every level (whether it's a new critical skill, a customizable spend/talent point, or a new flavour ability that doesn't bloat your rotation).
- I feel like they might even do some kind of paragon level shit, where people can go through 1-60 repeatedly if they want to earn new cosmetic rewards, which will also inject more bodies back into the levelling pool, making the world more alive.

7. Marketing/Promotions:
- It'll be billed as another reboot, like Cataclysm was.
- It'll be billed as the best way for new players to start WoW ever, since 1.0, particularly with the one-two punch of the leveling overhaul and the dissolution of the faction barrier (anyone can play with anyone, and they can do it much more quickly).
- There'll be a bunch of Classic/Current cross-promotion. Nothing in-game specifically, but stuff like that Brazilian Facebook contest. (cap a Classic character and get a boost/BFA for free, etc.). They'll want to get audiences for both games playing the other one, I think.
- They'll do something 'shocking' with the price. I predict a sub drop to $9.99.

And...I honestly think all the speculation's been on point and we're looking at either faction dissolution or the ability to 'defect' or whatever. OR (and I liberally lift this idea from something I read on reddit or here), there are two 'new' factions. A new alliance and a new horde, and everyone will be forced to choose which they join, but there will always be some kind of way to defect (maybe on a one-month cooldown or something with a pretty heavy timesink in-game). The idea I remember reading was about possible factions surrounding the Light/Holy and the Dark/Void, but I honestly think that the branding and iconography of Alliance and Horde is too strong to give up, so there'll just be a 'reforged' Alliance a 'reforged' Horde and every character will be like a Pandaren character -- free to make the choice of where they want to go. They know they have to bring that barrier down eventually for so many reasons, AND, can you IMAGINE the positive buzz it'll bring the game? Talk about breathing new life into it.


(and yeah, for story/content, we know what we're probably getting: N'Zoth, Old Gods, Black Empire, Wrathion drama, etc. along with - HOPEFULLY - a ton of great drama and character moments related to the faction barriers coming down and the decades-long faction war being over)

Am I NUTS, or do you also think Blizzard is ready to knock our fucking pants off with a return to form for the next expansion?

This post was brought to you by the aftermath of a caffeine and food-induced panic attack that persisted all fucking afternoon so I just had to get some fucking energy out of my system. Don't fucking drink 6 cups of coffee, kids. YAY
Hope you are right. I agree that the 9.0 reveal at Blizzcon kind of has to be big. The modern WoW team has a lot to prove when looking at the difference in reception between BfA (it's better since 8.2, but still pretty middling as far as xpacs go overall) and classic. They really need to demonstrate that they have learned some important, specific lessons. However I am a bit concerned that anything we see for 9.0 was already fairly locked in quite a while ago and whatever organizational problems blizzard clearly has will continue to make it a difficult, slow process of actually responding to specific issues and feedback.
 
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Milo Rambaldi

Milo Rambaldi

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,190
Florida
Hope you are right. I agree that the 9.0 reveal at Blizzcon kind of has to be big. The modern WoW team has a lot to prove when looking at the difference in reception between BfA (it's better since 8.2, but still pretty middling as far as xpacs go overall) and classic. They really need to demonstrate that they have learned some important, specific lessons. However I am a bit concerned that anything we see for 9.0 was already fairly locked in quite a while ago and whatever organizational problems blizzard clearly has will continue to make it a difficult, slow process of actually responding to specific issues and feedback.
My hope is that with the general lack of excitement for systems in the BFA beta really helped give them the push to adjust for 9.0. It was "too late" for anything to be delayed with BFA (as we're all confident it was rushed out to begin with) so hopefully course correction was possible with whatever is being revealed in November.

I have a lot of hopes for whatever's coming next. BFA, gameplay aside, wasn't really what I wanted from the story following Legion so I'm hoping we're gonna get something that drives the narrative forward better than 8.0-8.1 did. I think "the old gods did it" was always intended to be part of the story for BFA but I think they expected, for some reason, that people would really love the faction conflict story and wanted it to be the main focus until 8.3 and when that didn't happen they had to do some rewriting. Most of the plans were in place, sure, but its clear the focus on the war campaign and story surrounding it was pushed off to the side. Now it's more of a "yeah that happened but LOOK! NAGA! N'ZOTH!" thing. Honestly, I think the events of the end of 8.2 was supposed to be the cliffhanger into 9.0 but they had to do something to have a hook when they offered the 8.2 "apology." That would explain the lack of anything "real" happening in the cutscene when you kill Azshara.

But I don't know if this is more than conjecture. I'm not a Blizzard employee or anything.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,355
The faction conflict shit was a poisoned well from the get-go. It's intra-Horde conflict with the alliance just being the Good Guys(tm) in the background. It's been horribly executed since before the expansion even launched with the "we'll see who really burned teldrassil" ending up as just sylvanasbadlol
 
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Milo Rambaldi

Milo Rambaldi

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,190
Florida
The faction conflict shit was a poisoned well from the get-go. It's intra-Horde conflict with the alliance just being the Good Guys(tm) in the background. It's been horribly executed since before the expansion even launched with the "we'll see who really burned teldrassil" ending up as just sylvanasbadlol
Yep. The obvious answer was "We're gonna set it up to LOOK like the other side did it and Azshara is laughing from the sidelines!" and then the twist is that they went with the more obvious "Sylvanas actually DID do it" which was a bigger twist than Azshara being responsible. But not like in a storyline twist way and more of a "wtf was Blizzard thinking" way. The whole event is headscratching.

Chromie's gonna roll up and reverse the burning and the destruction of Undercity and we're just gonna pretend it never happened. Like Me'dan.
 

Bane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,542
After 34 wipes we finally downed heroic Azshara last night. Damn, what a fight. The last parts become super damn hectic. Yet when we cleared it we did so fairly easily, it's odd.

My concern about 9.0 is that I've built it up to be something it won't be. I don't believe anything too specific from all the supposed leaks, but I do think something will tear down to Horde/Alliance divide some, the world will be revamped to a degree, and a level squish will happen will be accompanied by a big change in class design.

Pretty much the worst thing that can happen is the announcement at Blizzcon is merely "Here's just another expansion."
 
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Milo Rambaldi

Milo Rambaldi

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,190
Florida
Pretty much the worst thing that can happen is the announcement at Blizzcon is merely "Here's just another expansion."
Thankfully I’m positive the chances of this happening are pretty damned low. People can say what they want about Activision but they know how important the constant stream of subs are to the bottom line and how much this game means to it’s playerbase.
 

ManaByte

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,087
Southern California
Done with Classic. Leveled my Warlock to 15 and am just bored. I realized I went through all this fifteen years ago and it's just not fun. People in the classic thread are still in rose-colored nostalgia glasses euphoria, but pretty soon they'll be begging for BC, Lich King, etc.
 

Nora

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,291
Done with Classic. Leveled my Warlock to 15 and am just bored. I realized I went through all this fifteen years ago and it's just not fun. People in the classic thread are still in rose-colored nostalgia glasses euphoria, but pretty soon they'll be begging for BC, Lich King, etc.
Yeah I think this is the long-term problem with Classic. What is this thing beyond a time capsule that's interesting for maybe a couple of months until the content runs out and it's just another live game but one with no new content coming out? Blizzard is smart and I'm sure they have some ideas. But there's a non-zero chance that idea is just "it's going to be vanilla o'clock forever"
 

Hycran

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
1,194
Done with Classic. Leveled my Warlock to 15 and am just bored. I realized I went through all this fifteen years ago and it's just not fun. People in the classic thread are still in rose-colored nostalgia glasses euphoria, but pretty soon they'll be begging for BC, Lich King, etc.
Not even slightly. It’s a testament to how popular the game is that the servers are still slammed and they are allowing for free server transfers to virgin servers. The game is so fundamentally different than retail that the people who enjoy it aren’t likely to come back. I tried retail and it is complete trash. It is a Skinner box with all of the seams showing. Classic is an experience, retail is just a game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,173
What is wrong with wanting BC and other expansions? I've always hoped they'd eventually do them. For me, this is not nostalgia. This is just playing the game and enjoying it. Playing with closer friends this time around is a huge change for me compared to last time 15 years ago. I had friends, but this time it's just different types of friends. And not leveling solo pretty much at all.
 

Berordn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,825
Orlando, FL
I would definitely check out a hypothetical WoW2 for a while, but them wiping the slate would probably keep me from committing to it for long. Part of what keeps me around is what I've accumulated. If that were to go, so would a lot of my motivation for returning. As it is now I might sit out during an expansion if I've got other stuff going on, but having to start over would push me to actual content tourist, at best.

They're absolutely aware of this, too. There's a good reason why they're helping people who are protective of their character names in Classic and why they had the reconnection threads on the official forums. People aren't really looking to start anew, they just want to relive those experiences and revisit the same community, not start a new one.
 
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Berordn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,825
Orlando, FL
ah yes the ol' "let's render this iconic thing in the most generic photorealistic style possible"

99% of these fan render tech demos look like shit because they have zero artistic vision
It's also not a great example of what an actual WoW2 would look like, because there's only a few locations in the world that are that share that kind of generic medieval low fantasy style. If they were to go ham on that style then all the areas that take inspiration from Clock/Gear Punk like with Gnomes or the neon space opera aesthetics of anything Draenei would look horrendously out of place, and even all the elven stuff would be a little off.

That's not to say they can't do a higher fidelity WoW2, but it's not going to look anything like that.
 
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Milo Rambaldi

Milo Rambaldi

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,190
Florida
ah yes the ol' "let's render this iconic thing in the most generic photorealistic style possible"

99% of these fan render tech demos look like shit because they have zero artistic vision
Anytime I see an Unreal 4 fan recreation of any game that isn't built to be hyper realistic I just don't get it. WoW may be "ugly" by today's standards but the art style carries it a lot. The art direction of BfA is one of the things they got so right and it's crazy when you're questing in like BC areas and then you get to BFA and wow. It's really nice looking even if it's not technically impressive.
 

Finaj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,022
Ok, so, the state of the game we have going into Blizzcon is kind of unprecedented. 8.2.5 will probably launch in late September or early October and we still know nothing of 8.3. By this time in prior expansions, the final patch was either on the PTR or already released (at this point in Legion, Argus was already playable on live servers).

This Blizzcon they're going to need to set time to talk about 8.3 and the next expansion. They also need to reveal the new expansion in a way as to not spoil what happens in 8.3, which could be difficult if it ties in directly with the next expansion.