A WoW 2 would be just more of the same and possibly worse stuff like microtransactions. At best it'd be an expansion that would have the same issues and problems, if not right away then given time.
Plus whatever they could've put in WoW 2 they can do as patches and expansions (which is essentially what they've already been doing), for far less the money that creating and promoting and entirely new game.
The WoW 2 debate isn't really new either way, people are just bringing it up again because they see Classic as a wrinkle in that.
But that just makes it less likely imo, are they going to be running 3 separate WoW titles concurrently, when every other expansion to Retail is basically a sequel anyway? Even if WoW 2 marked the end of content updates for Retail, it's not like they'd be bringing it offline.
Lineage 2WoW 2 isn't happening nor does it make sense to happen. Other MMO's have tried to have a 2nd version and most if not all failed, Final Fantasy XIV being an exception to FF XI but not really the same thing in this case. People don't want to abandon what they have done to start over in the same world. Anyway I still think Classic is going to push for some major changes in retail, and I am here for it.
There's no class sets in BFA since Azerite Traits do something similar... in theory. There's a pretty good chance they'll return next expansion given the reception to the system, unless they push a new gimmick.Any guilds on Eldre'Thalas for alliance? I'd like to get into some casual raiding again beyond raid finder. Also, are there class sets still? I downloaded a mod I used to use called atlasloot and I don't see tokens or class items for the bosses in the raids. I'm not familiar with how WoW currently does it.
There is a case to be made for console support though, like FFXIV and ESO, and even smaller MMOs like TERA and Black Desert. Huge potential market there, and I kinda feel like WoW needs to tap into that to retain leadership position and revitalise its playerbase next gen.Plus whatever they could've put in WoW 2 they can do as patches and expansions (which is essentially what they've already been doing), for far less the money that creating and promoting and entirely new game.
Those aren't remotely the same thing. In short, the reasons WoW 2 will never happen:People also said bliz would never do wow classic so...
It's not like sequels to blockbuster franchises are rare.
Those aren't remotely the same thing. In short, the reasons WoW 2 will never happen:
1) There's no market for MMOs. Out of the entire history of MMOs, the true successes can probably be counted on two hands. They're outliers. This article was a pretty interesting read on the topic of target audiences: https://galyonk.in/your-target-audience-doesn-t-exist-999b78aa77ae
2) It would take an obscene amount of time and money to make a world even just the size of Classic with today's production values.
3) Blizzard isn't what it used to be now that they're with Activision. They're much more focused on the bottom line and won't spend 8 years developing a single game anymore.
Following from 1 and 2, it's an incredible risk that they would frankly be stupid to take. Why do that when WoW is still doing just fine, even though it's nowhere near peak popularity? A WoW 2 is very far from a guaranteed success. You can't capture lightning in a bottle twice. They tried with Titan and they scrapped it.
If they wanted to renew interest in WoW they could simply do a soft reboot like they did with Cataclysm. But they will never, ever make WoW 2. I'll happily eat crow if they do, I just think it's financial suicide to make a brand new MMO in this day and age of GaaS games.
Those aren't remotely the same thing. In short, the reasons WoW 2 will never happen:
1) There's no market for MMOs. Out of the entire history of MMOs, the true successes can probably be counted on two hands. They're outliers. This article was a pretty interesting read on the topic of target audiences: https://galyonk.in/your-target-audience-doesn-t-exist-999b78aa77ae
2) It would take an obscene amount of time and money to make a world even just the size of Classic with today's production values.
3) Blizzard isn't what it used to be now that they're with Activision. They're much more focused on the bottom line and won't spend 8 years developing a single game anymore.
Following from 1 and 2, it's an incredible risk that they would frankly be stupid to take. Why do that when WoW is still doing just fine, even though it's nowhere near peak popularity? A WoW 2 is very far from a guaranteed success. You can't capture lightning in a bottle twice. They tried with Titan and they scrapped it.
If they wanted to renew interest in WoW they could simply do a soft reboot like they did with Cataclysm. But they will never, ever make WoW 2. I'll happily eat crow if they do, I just think it's financial suicide to make a brand new MMO in this day and age of GaaS games.
Agree with all that WoW 2 isn't going to happen.
Felt like doing a big thought-dump post of what I hope and think is around the corner at Blizzcon. I truly think we're in store for a LOT of the below with whatever they reveal next because a) they've been talking forever about how the team is larger than ever and we've gotta be seeing the fruits of that labour soon, and b) they know they have to right the ship and fix the narrative surrounding BFA/WoW.
Hope I don't eat crow on most of this, but here's what I hope for and anticipate:
I fully expect an expansion reveal at Blizzcon that does a hard 180 on a lot of BFA stuff that people didn't like and gives in to fan demand for all the things that they love that worked in the past:
1. Systems/World/Community:
- Reduced phasing/sharding wherever possible (accompanied by a lot of talk about how they want server communities/reputation to matter again, probably coupled with the introduction of some kind of kudos system like Overwatch)
- The breaking of some QOL measures (WQ addons, group finder stuff) that will be a brute-force attempt to bring social/community back into Retail
- Doubling-down on 'public events' (Legion invasions, Faction Assaults, etc.) with something happening somewhere in the world at ALL times to bring people out of the cities, into the world, and grouping up for extra incentives.
- (HALF-BAKED IDEA ALERT): Maybe some new kind of reward for repeat-grouping with the same folks; it certainly incentivizes guilds....but is that a bad thing? It'll foster connections and encourage people to bond with players they like. AND/OR:
- (HALF-BAKED IDEA ALERT, AGAIN): AND/OR: Maybe some kind of 'adoption' system, where folks can also be rewarded for taking folks under their wing, group with them for the first time, IDK, I'm not a game designer, but I think there's a kernel of an idea somewhere here.
2. Class and/or Race-specific content
- Class/Race-specific quests
- Class/Race-exclusive gear/mounts
- Fuck, maybe even the return of order halls
- The return of class/race-exclusive abilities, but this time, totally cosmetic/RP in flavour. No fucking imba shit like fear wards.
3. Flying:
- A less severe Pathfinder grind
- Flying available by 9.1
- A greater emphasis on content that requires flying, to make it feel more part of the world rather than the 'cheat code' we all unlock in the X.2 patch of a cycle
4. Gear:
- The return of a less randomized expansion-long gearing system (think more like artifacts and less like Azerite gear)
- The return of tier sets (SUCH an easy win that'll get positive buzz)
- The return of legendary items (I think people LOVED this shit and it was a vocal minority that lambasted Blizzard for them -- they can and will probably just add a spendy vendor to reduce the randomness and allow people to work toward the leggos they want, just like the Titan Residuum shit)
5. New/Fun/Yay Shit:
- A new class and a new couple of (allied) races, which I don't think has happened in any expansion besides Pandaria and is sure to get buzz. The races will be two big ones people have probably wanted forever, like Ogres or whatever.
- The class will obviously be the Tinker based on all the leaks. It'll be totally unlike any other class in terms of its progression; you'll probably be in a mech or some shit, and get to customize all sorts of shit about it with parts and shit.
- I expect some kind of new cosmetic thing in the vein of xmog, pets, titles and mounts, but IDK what it'll be yet; I think they know they have winners on their hands will all that shit, b/c it sucks up people's time, it's fun, it adds flavour the world, and adding stuff to old content loot tables is probably some really low-investment stuff from a development perspective.
6. Levelling:
- IDK how they'll do it, but I'm sure this is where we'll the level smoosh. It'll be 1-60 again, probably. Levels will be meaningful again, you'll get something new and fun every level (whether it's a new critical skill, a customizable spend/talent point, or a new flavour ability that doesn't bloat your rotation).
- I feel like they might even do some kind of paragon level shit, where people can go through 1-60 repeatedly if they want to earn new cosmetic rewards, which will also inject more bodies back into the levelling pool, making the world more alive.
7. Marketing/Promotions:
- It'll be billed as another reboot, like Cataclysm was.
- It'll be billed as the best way for new players to start WoW ever, since 1.0, particularly with the one-two punch of the leveling overhaul and the dissolution of the faction barrier (anyone can play with anyone, and they can do it much more quickly).
- There'll be a bunch of Classic/Current cross-promotion. Nothing in-game specifically, but stuff like that Brazilian Facebook contest. (cap a Classic character and get a boost/BFA for free, etc.). They'll want to get audiences for both games playing the other one, I think.
- They'll do something 'shocking' with the price. I predict a sub drop to $9.99.
And...I honestly think all the speculation's been on point and we're looking at either faction dissolution or the ability to 'defect' or whatever. OR (and I liberally lift this idea from something I read on reddit or here), there are two 'new' factions. A new alliance and a new horde, and everyone will be forced to choose which they join, but there will always be some kind of way to defect (maybe on a one-month cooldown or something with a pretty heavy timesink in-game). The idea I remember reading was about possible factions surrounding the Light/Holy and the Dark/Void, but I honestly think that the branding and iconography of Alliance and Horde is too strong to give up, so there'll just be a 'reforged' Alliance a 'reforged' Horde and every character will be like a Pandaren character -- free to make the choice of where they want to go. They know they have to bring that barrier down eventually for so many reasons, AND, can you IMAGINE the positive buzz it'll bring the game? Talk about breathing new life into it.
(and yeah, for story/content, we know what we're probably getting: N'Zoth, Old Gods, Black Empire, Wrathion drama, etc. along with - HOPEFULLY - a ton of great drama and character moments related to the faction barriers coming down and the decades-long faction war being over)
Am I NUTS, or do you also think Blizzard is ready to knock our fucking pants off with a return to form for the next expansion?
This post was brought to you by the aftermath of a caffeine and food-induced panic attack that persisted all fucking afternoon so I just had to get some fucking energy out of my system. Don't fucking drink 6 cups of coffee, kids. YAY
I'm too tired to properly respond but I like most of this and agree.
Unrelated but I know they just launched Classic and stuff but man the 8.2.5 drip feed just.... stopped. Hopefully we get some more info or whatever this week. I want my goblin models!
Maybe not in name but we can certainly get a "WoW 2" as a new expansion. What is making Classic so great now and always talked about in our fond memories? "The journey of the character".
Most expansions are fun roller-coasters to endgame but really nothing sticks out while leveling. I'm pretty certain you cannot do an Kalmidor/EK sized content dump for the equivalent of 60 levels, however pushing the benchmark to a new 20 levels (instead of the standard 10) and having it take time may help. Raiding is at its most accessible and enjoyed by a lot but did anyone actually start playing the game because of it?
Aside from the amount of content another way to make the journey take more time is difficulty. The struggle is real in Classic because a mangy furblog or stinky murloc can do you in. Stripping down our toolset to those early level limits is not possible, but maybe implementing Island AI across the board could put the danger back into the world. And also not having zones scale! So you can see this big imposing ominous land and say "Ima get to you" (but then if grouping implement scaling).
Making new Azeroth as busy as Classic. Not to the point of 3-hour queues but there are a lot of struggling servers even with the connected realms. Instead of expanding sharding/LFG, start condensing to get those pops back over Medium. Especially with the world so large now.
For a time, this actually was a driving goal behind a lot of people I got to play with me. Seeing the level of complexity and coordination of endgame raiding was their driving motivation, particularly working as a team to do these otherwise insurmountable challenges. I'm sure I'm not alone with those examples, they probably wouldn't have changed the design of the game in Wrath to put so much emphasis on them if it were just a small contingent of players.Most expansions are fun roller-coasters to endgame but really nothing sticks out while leveling. I'm pretty certain you cannot do an Kalmidor/EK sized content dump for the equivalent of 60 levels, however pushing the benchmark to a new 20 levels (instead of the standard 10) and having it take time may help. Raiding is at its most accessible and enjoyed by a lot but did anyone actually start playing the game because of it?
Agree with all that WoW 2 isn't going to happen.
Felt like doing a big thought-dump post of what I hope and think is around the corner at Blizzcon. I truly think we're in store for a LOT of the below with whatever they reveal next because a) they've been talking forever about how the team is larger than ever and we've gotta be seeing the fruits of that labour soon, and b) they know they have to right the ship and fix the narrative surrounding BFA/WoW.
Hope I don't eat crow on most of this, but here's what I hope for and anticipate:
I fully expect an expansion reveal at Blizzcon that does a hard 180 on a lot of BFA stuff that people didn't like and gives in to fan demand for all the things that they love that worked in the past:
1. Systems/World/Community:
- Reduced phasing/sharding wherever possible (accompanied by a lot of talk about how they want server communities/reputation to matter again, probably coupled with the introduction of some kind of kudos system like Overwatch)
- The breaking of some QOL measures (WQ addons, group finder stuff) that will be a brute-force attempt to bring social/community back into Retail
- Doubling-down on 'public events' (Legion invasions, Faction Assaults, etc.) with something happening somewhere in the world at ALL times to bring people out of the cities, into the world, and grouping up for extra incentives.
- (HALF-BAKED IDEA ALERT): Maybe some new kind of reward for repeat-grouping with the same folks; it certainly incentivizes guilds....but is that a bad thing? It'll foster connections and encourage people to bond with players they like. AND/OR:
- (HALF-BAKED IDEA ALERT, AGAIN): AND/OR: Maybe some kind of 'adoption' system, where folks can also be rewarded for taking folks under their wing, group with them for the first time, IDK, I'm not a game designer, but I think there's a kernel of an idea somewhere here.
2. Class and/or Race-specific content
- Class/Race-specific quests
- Class/Race-exclusive gear/mounts
- Fuck, maybe even the return of order halls
- The return of class/race-exclusive abilities, but this time, totally cosmetic/RP in flavour. No fucking imba shit like fear wards.
3. Flying:
- A less severe Pathfinder grind
- Flying available by 9.1
- A greater emphasis on content that requires flying, to make it feel more part of the world rather than the 'cheat code' we all unlock in the X.2 patch of a cycle
4. Gear:
- The return of a less randomized expansion-long gearing system (think more like artifacts and less like Azerite gear)
- The return of tier sets (SUCH an easy win that'll get positive buzz)
- The return of legendary items (I think people LOVED this shit and it was a vocal minority that lambasted Blizzard for them -- they can and will probably just add a spendy vendor to reduce the randomness and allow people to work toward the leggos they want, just like the Titan Residuum shit)
5. New/Fun/Yay Shit:
- A new class and a new couple of (allied) races, which I don't think has happened in any expansion besides Pandaria and is sure to get buzz. The races will be two big ones people have probably wanted forever, like Ogres or whatever.
- The class will obviously be the Tinker based on all the leaks. It'll be totally unlike any other class in terms of its progression; you'll probably be in a mech or some shit, and get to customize all sorts of shit about it with parts and shit.
- I expect some kind of new cosmetic thing in the vein of xmog, pets, titles and mounts, but IDK what it'll be yet; I think they know they have winners on their hands will all that shit, b/c it sucks up people's time, it's fun, it adds flavour the world, and adding stuff to old content loot tables is probably some really low-investment stuff from a development perspective.
6. Levelling:
- IDK how they'll do it, but I'm sure this is where we'll the level smoosh. It'll be 1-60 again, probably. Levels will be meaningful again, you'll get something new and fun every level (whether it's a new critical skill, a customizable spend/talent point, or a new flavour ability that doesn't bloat your rotation).
- I feel like they might even do some kind of paragon level shit, where people can go through 1-60 repeatedly if they want to earn new cosmetic rewards, which will also inject more bodies back into the levelling pool, making the world more alive.
7. Marketing/Promotions:
- It'll be billed as another reboot, like Cataclysm was.
- It'll be billed as the best way for new players to start WoW ever, since 1.0, particularly with the one-two punch of the leveling overhaul and the dissolution of the faction barrier (anyone can play with anyone, and they can do it much more quickly).
- There'll be a bunch of Classic/Current cross-promotion. Nothing in-game specifically, but stuff like that Brazilian Facebook contest. (cap a Classic character and get a boost/BFA for free, etc.). They'll want to get audiences for both games playing the other one, I think.
- They'll do something 'shocking' with the price. I predict a sub drop to $9.99.
And...I honestly think all the speculation's been on point and we're looking at either faction dissolution or the ability to 'defect' or whatever. OR (and I liberally lift this idea from something I read on reddit or here), there are two 'new' factions. A new alliance and a new horde, and everyone will be forced to choose which they join, but there will always be some kind of way to defect (maybe on a one-month cooldown or something with a pretty heavy timesink in-game). The idea I remember reading was about possible factions surrounding the Light/Holy and the Dark/Void, but I honestly think that the branding and iconography of Alliance and Horde is too strong to give up, so there'll just be a 'reforged' Alliance a 'reforged' Horde and every character will be like a Pandaren character -- free to make the choice of where they want to go. They know they have to bring that barrier down eventually for so many reasons, AND, can you IMAGINE the positive buzz it'll bring the game? Talk about breathing new life into it.
(and yeah, for story/content, we know what we're probably getting: N'Zoth, Old Gods, Black Empire, Wrathion drama, etc. along with - HOPEFULLY - a ton of great drama and character moments related to the faction barriers coming down and the decades-long faction war being over)
Am I NUTS, or do you also think Blizzard is ready to knock our fucking pants off with a return to form for the next expansion?
This post was brought to you by the aftermath of a caffeine and food-induced panic attack that persisted all fucking afternoon so I just had to get some fucking energy out of my system. Don't fucking drink 6 cups of coffee, kids. YAY
Hope you are right. I agree that the 9.0 reveal at Blizzcon kind of has to be big. The modern WoW team has a lot to prove when looking at the difference in reception between BfA (it's better since 8.2, but still pretty middling as far as xpacs go overall) and classic. They really need to demonstrate that they have learned some important, specific lessons. However I am a bit concerned that anything we see for 9.0 was already fairly locked in quite a while ago and whatever organizational problems blizzard clearly has will continue to make it a difficult, slow process of actually responding to specific issues and feedback.
The faction conflict shit was a poisoned well from the get-go. It's intra-Horde conflict with the alliance just being the Good Guys(tm) in the background. It's been horribly executed since before the expansion even launched with the "we'll see who really burned teldrassil" ending up as just sylvanasbadlol
Pretty much the worst thing that can happen is the announcement at Blizzcon is merely "Here's just another expansion."
Yeah I think this is the long-term problem with Classic. What is this thing beyond a time capsule that's interesting for maybe a couple of months until the content runs out and it's just another live game but one with no new content coming out? Blizzard is smart and I'm sure they have some ideas. But there's a non-zero chance that idea is just "it's going to be vanilla o'clock forever"Done with Classic. Leveled my Warlock to 15 and am just bored. I realized I went through all this fifteen years ago and it's just not fun. People in the classic thread are still in rose-colored nostalgia glasses euphoria, but pretty soon they'll be begging for BC, Lich King, etc.
Done with Classic. Leveled my Warlock to 15 and am just bored. I realized I went through all this fifteen years ago and it's just not fun. People in the classic thread are still in rose-colored nostalgia glasses euphoria, but pretty soon they'll be begging for BC, Lich King, etc.
whoa
It's also not a great example of what an actual WoW2 would look like, because there's only a few locations in the world that are that share that kind of generic medieval low fantasy style. If they were to go ham on that style then all the areas that take inspiration from Clock/Gear Punk like with Gnomes or the neon space opera aesthetics of anything Draenei would look horrendously out of place, and even all the elven stuff would be a little off.ah yes the ol' "let's render this iconic thing in the most generic photorealistic style possible"
99% of these fan render tech demos look like shit because they have zero artistic vision
ah yes the ol' "let's render this iconic thing in the most generic photorealistic style possible"
99% of these fan render tech demos look like shit because they have zero artistic vision