World of Warcraft's next expansion heavily considering Level Squish (Reducing Level Cap)

[Ashodin]

https://blizzardwatch.com/2019/06/1...rm-level-squish-coming-wow-via-random-survey/

Relevant Images.

A survey has gone out with intentions by Blizzard to squish the Level Cap. Most likely, they'd reduce leveling to 60 (as in Vanilla).

Right now, I'm leveling a rogue with my wife and I absolute abhor how you don't get ANY special perks for leveling up in between the big milestone levels (talents, abilities, etc).

A Level squish would mean every single level is impactful, meaningful, and the game scales anyway, so they would just tune things to make every single level up make you think about what to do next on your character.

They've also started thinking about what it means to be max level, and such.

What are your thoughts? I'm personally excited.

 

[Doukou]

I want people to suffer through 60-80 like I have many times. Fuck having fun.

 

[Ashodin]

The NPE has been atrocious for a lot of players, and leveling to 120 is a steep climb.

 

[B-Dubs]

This could be good. The Burning Crusade content is a friggen slog to get through. If it gives you more freedom as to where and how to level that could be great.

I might jump back in if this is good.

 

[ShaggsMagoo]

What a joke, there are enough ways for players to skip old content there is absolutely no reason to do this.

 

[rpm]

I mean, it sounds like a good idea, but also that seems like a lot of effort in relation to the benefits

As someone who has played quite a few MMOs but never really got into WoW, I feel like there are a lot more barriers for new players than just the high level cap

 

[papertowel]

Ive been hoping this would happen for a while now. There are large gaps in between talents and skills as you level, making the leveling process even more boring. It also has the effect of turning away new players as they think 120 levels is too much, even though 1-120 is faster than 1-60 was in classic. Cut the level cap in half and it becomes more reasonable.

And to be honest leveling and endgame are so different, I wish you could just skip it entirely and get to the "good stuff" without buying the 120 token.

 

[B-Dubs]

I mean, it sounds like a good idea, but also that seems like a lot of effort in relation to the benefits

As someone who has played quite a few MMOs but never really got into WoW, I feel like there are a lot more barriers for new players than just the high level cap

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They've been stripping those away a lot over the years. It used to be you needed to be in a guild to see raid content, then they did raid finder. There's LFG. They massively simplified the stat system compared to what it was in vanilla/BC/WotLK. And they even pruned the abilities of each class and simplified talent trees. Not really many hurdles left at this point.

 

[Pendas]

It'll go well with BfA's active players squish.

 

[MegaBeefBowl]

This could be good. The Burning Crusade content is a friggen slog to get through. If it gives you more freedom as to where and how to level that could be great.

I might jump back in if this is good.

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You can literally skip TBC content now. You can do Wrath content at level 60 now.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Just give a free level boost at this point.

 

[Deleted member 27751]

Interesting. But why now? I understand that going any further would get into crazy high levels despite XP boosts and on top of that blow stats out even with normalisation but the timing is just odd. Especially given the next expansion probably won't be that great with the direction they seemingly want to go.

 

[B-Dubs]

You can literally skip TBC content now. You can do Wrath content at level 60 now.

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No shit?

Damn, I am tempted to resub. I wanna wait for the new xpac though.

 

[filkry]

I'd like them to do this once and then abandon the linear growth thing going forward. Rather than gaining another 10 levels, gain 10 levels of "Outland Mastery", "Northrend Mastery" etc, that doesn't carry to the next expansion.

 

[MegaBeefBowl]

No shit?

Damn, I am tempted to resub. I wanna wait for the new xpac though.

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Yup. I'm pretty sure you can even skip cataclysm and go straight into panda content once you hit 80 as well.

Leveling is ultra accelerated at this point. You often won't even come close to finishing every zone in a continent before hitting the cap for it.

 

[Stellar]

I don't think this is going to change much lol.

 

[Moppy]

Probably should've been done awhile ago. I've played off and on since Vanilla (quit again at the start of current expansion), but I've always wondered how impenetrable WoW must be for people getting into it for the first time right now. I get that that audience can't be all thaaaaaaat large, but the huge gating and time investment for any possible new players has seemed pretty silly for a long time now (even with Recruit-a-Friend bonuses and reshuffling the zone/continent levels).

 

[LegalEagleMike]

No shit?

Damn, I am tempted to resub. I wanna wait for the new xpac though.

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Yep, most of 10-60 can be done in any classic zones through scaling, 60-80 can be done in Outland or Northrend. 80-90 can be Cata or Panda zones, then Wod, then Legion, then BFA. There will likely be additional modifications heading into next expansion.

 

[Sargerus]

What does this mean for leveling tho?

 

[Frozenprince]

Not down to 60, that's too much to rebalance. 80-90 seems a good sweet spot.

 

[Cream Stout]

this is happening because azeorth is gonna have big event like ffxiv 1.0 and it will wipe out all of azeroth. this is why classic is coming back so people can enjoy azeroth for what it was and the new expansion will be us starting at level 1 again in a remade world

 

[LegalEagleMike]

Honestly id prefer if they have another cataclysm event and redo leveling quests again. Weve spent enough time with cata zones, and bronze dragon shenanigans to rationalize leveling in BC and Wotlk

 

[Deleted member 2229]

Down to 80 would be good. The leveling experience sucks and it being so long only makes it worse. So i welcome this wholeheartedly

 

[Hippopuncher12]

Probably a good idea to be honest, the item squishes have both been fine so a level squish should be okay as well.

 

[Gloomz]

Down to 80 would be good. The leveling experience sucks and it being so long only makes it worse. So i welcome this wholeheartedly

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If they do a 'squish,' I imagine they will change the experience gained to more or less match what it is.

 

[Gentlemen]

Not sure how a level squish would help the 70-80 grind all that much since it would still be the same bad zones on the same bad quests for a not significantly reduced amount of time.

The 1-120 grind must be absolutely intolerable though.

 

[B-Dubs]

this is happening because azeorth is gonna have big event like ffxiv 1.0 and it will wipe out all of azeroth. this is why classic is coming back so people can enjoy azeroth for what it was and the new expansion will be us starting at level 1 again in a remade world

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Why not just do WoW 2 at that point?

 

[whistleklik]

I think it would be fine. Everything is scaled now anyways so it would be fine. I wonder if the madmen will go down to 60.

 

[@dedmunk]

Didn't they already introduce level scaling or am I misremembering?

They should just let you level anywhere you want, including just starting out in the new content.

 

[SushiReese]

Yes, please. Current WOW level experience is boring and time-consuming. Leveling in the outdated map (before WOD)is awful. All the outdated dungeon loots are useless and unrewarding. There is zero people outside the world and zero social interaction during the whole experience. The game is over 15 years now and 95% of the world map is dead.
You could only enjoy the "full game experience"unless you hit the maximum level cap in current expansion. New bies would give up before they hit the level cap. Vanilia server would destroy retail when it release.

 

[MikeProtagonist]

Wouldn't this just mean that the numbers are halved and you enter TBC at 30-35 instead of 60-70? And instead of getting some actual improvement every other level you get it every level?

It's fine. However, gamers are bloody stupid and will see this as "their takin mah numbas away". Like the stupidity back with Street Fighter 2 when everyone wanted more speed stars to have the faster game. Dude, it's just an arbitrary number. Three stars out of three could be faster than five stars out of five.

 

[JahIthBer]

There is like 50 things wrong with retail WoW, big levels isn't it. in fact if the levelling experience was as good as Vanilla, going from 1 to 120 would be an amazing journey, but with the heavy focus on end game, heirlooms, lvl boosts, no skill tree & other things, levelling feels like a chore & reducing the cap is just a band aid fix.

 

[Deleted member 29660]

They can try to compact the levels, I doubt many will be pissed if so. I mean they had what, three item levels squishes already. Of course then the next expansion they skyrocket numbers again causing the same issue.

 

[Deleted member 2229]

Why not just do WoW 2 at that point?

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Here's to hoping that also happens

 

[Iadien]

I've heard devs talk about this many times in MMOs over the years. From what I've heard and read the high level cap is daunting for new and returning players, no matter how many catchup mechanics are added, because a lot of people only look at the level cap and won't give the game a chance/or return.

 

[Gentlemen]

Wouldn't this just mean that the numbers are halved and you enter TBC at 30-35 instead of 60-70? And instead of getting some actual improvement every other level you get it every level?

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I think what is more likely to happen is that you can level in any zone you walk into at any level you currently are, and that the quests, rewards and zone mobs would scale accordingly. I think I'd have a heck of a lot more fun getting from, hypothetically 30 to 60 under level squish in brand-new zones, particularly on alts, rather than grind it all out in azeroth forever.
This would have the overall effect of smoothing out everyone's ride to the level cap, allowing significantly more freedom in where to be in the game world as you grind your way up there.
This would likely have the side effect of completely emptying out unpopular zones for leveling. TBC zones would be a wasteland.

 

[MegaBeefBowl]

Why not just do WoW 2 at that point?

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I don't think Blizzard can afford to ask for two separate subs from players.

 

[Ashodin]

No shit?

Damn, I am tempted to resub. I wanna wait for the new xpac though.

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Yeah and you can hit Pandaria at level 78

 

[m_dorian]

Not a bad idea on paper but after how BfA turned to be I very much doubt them doing something proper.
I ll wait and see how the next expansion fares and resub after its first patch if things are well.

 

[Sargerus]

this is happening because azeorth is gonna have big event like ffxiv 1.0 and it will wipe out all of azeroth. this is why classic is coming back so people can enjoy azeroth for what it was and the new expansion will be us starting at level 1 again in a remade world

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The ONLY reason FFXIV got revamped it's because 1.0 was absolutely shit and broken beyond belief.

 

[Cream Stout]

The ONLY reason FFXIV got revamped it's because 1.0 was absolutely shit and broken beyond belief.

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well i feel like wow needs that kinda revamp

 

[rpm]

They've been stripping those away a lot over the years. It used to be you needed to be in a guild to see raid content, then they did raid finder. There's LFG. They massively simplified the stat system compared to what it was in vanilla/BC/WotLK. And they even pruned the abilities of each class and simplified talent trees. Not really many hurdles left at this point.

Click to shrink...

I'm talking more about more user onboarding rather than simplifying mechanics.

Like, hypothetically, if I bought BfA today, am I supposed to use the included level boost and just have someone teach me how to play/look up how to play online, and then only touch Vanilla through Legion if I want to grind out levels on an alt? I genuinely don't even know how I should start playing WoW in 2019.

 

[Gloomz]

Not down to 60, that's too much to rebalance. 80-90 seems a good sweet spot.

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90 is too high. 70 is the sweet-spot. 120 or 130 or even 125 is fuckin' absurd.

 

[Duxxy3]

As a long, long, time player I'm in favor of the squish. Leveling after a certain point doesn't really offer anything new. No new talents. No new choices or rewards for leveling. Everything in the game scales with you, so it never really gets any harder or easier. BFA leveling felt like the single most pointless 10 levels of the entire game. Your character got weaker with the stat squish, and then again after the artifacts were removed and then some more while leveling, without any reward for the whole process.

They need to chop WoW down and build it back up again. I think WoW Classic will be good for the WoW team. It'll give them some insight into what made WoW great in the first place.

 

[s3ltz3r]

I want people to suffer through 60-80 like I have many times. Fuck having fun.

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This is literally why I left WoW. I cancelled my sub and shit. I'm glad they are considering changing this.

 

[MikeProtagonist]

I think what is more likely to happen is that you can level in any zone you walk into at any level you currently are, and that the quests, rewards and zone mobs would scale accordingly. I think I'd have a heck of a lot more fun getting from, hypothetically 30 to 60 under level squish in brand-new zones, particularly on alts, rather than grind it all out in azeroth forever.
This would have the overall effect of smoothing out everyone's ride to the level cap, allowing significantly more freedom in where to be in the game world as you grind your way up there.
This would likely have the side effect of completely emptying out unpopular zones for leveling. TBC zones would be a wasteland.

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Maybe that's where the game is headed, but it feels too accessible to me. There was a point where it was super dangerous (and fun) to head into Burning Steppes from Wetlands to search for unguarded treasure chests while dodging high level mobs. But I haven't played since early Legion and I forgot if this kind of stuff was already neutered in Cata.

 

[ManaByte]

Not sure how a level squish would help the 70-80 grind all that much since it would still be the same bad zones on the same bad quests for a not significantly reduced amount of time.

The 1-120 grind must be absolutely intolerable though.

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It's only bad 70-90. Once you hit 90 Draenor goes very quick just by doing all the zone bonus objectives. 100-110 Legion is quick with invasions.

 

[Frozenprince]

Why not just do WoW 2 at that point?

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At a point they're going to have to do that.

I can only imagine the nightmare that is trying to code WoW considering how much shit has to be built on top of.

 

[Gentlemen]

Maybe that's where the game is headed, but it feels too accessible to me. There was a point where it was super dangerous (and fun) to head into Burning Steppes from Wetlands to search for unguarded treasure chests while dodging high level mobs. But I haven't played since early Legion and I forgot if this kind of stuff was already neutered in Cata.

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They could also still use some sense of min-max ranges of applicable level scaling so you aren't in Northlands at level 10. Split it up like
All Azeroth zones: 1-25
All Outland zones: 15-40
All Northrend zones: 20-45
etc...

 

[Frozenprince]

I think what is more likely to happen is that you can level in any zone you walk into at any level you currently are, and that the quests, rewards and zone mobs would scale accordingly. I think I'd have a heck of a lot more fun getting from, hypothetically 30 to 60 under level squish in brand-new zones, particularly on alts, rather than grind it all out in azeroth forever.
This would have the overall effect of smoothing out everyone's ride to the level cap, allowing significantly more freedom in where to be in the game world as you grind your way up there.
This would likely have the side effect of completely emptying out unpopular zones for leveling. TBC zones would be a wasteland.

Click to shrink...

It's literally already impossible to see other people while leveling now unless you're in a dungeon, at that point you're just playing a single player game with optional multiplayer for like, 50 hours until you hit "endgame".

If anything they need LESS segmenting and shunting people into their own instances through these kind of things.