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Atraveller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,308
So many things regarding a audiophiles really bother me. Not in the sense that they're dangerous (like homeopathy is, for example). But because a lot of them, particularly when it comes to digital music, seem to be based on incredibly fundamental misconceptions of super simple math.

The first one is sampling rates. Some people seem to think that digital sampling just works something like this image:

Sony_digital_audio_stairsteps.jpg

Where a digital signal will have "steps" between samples, so higher sampling rates mean better sound with smaller steps. This is just not how sampling works, at all. And while there might be some advantages to sampling at a rate higher than 44kHz when recording sound, it's not nearly as important as audiophiles claim, and I haven't seen any real evidence that people can tell the difference in blind tests.

The other thing is the misunderstanding about how bits work. Bits are either 1 or 0. You either transmit a bit correctly, or you don't. And if you don't, the errors will be immediately noticeable. There's no real way to make a digital signal sound better by using things like super expensive cables, or by doing things like polishing your CD with God knows what. It will either work, or not.

Similarly, CDs and digital files are a perfectly fine storage media that are superior to vinyl in theory (disregarding things like mastering, or simply preferring how the imperfections of vynil sound).

And then there are just the absurd things some people buy into. Expensive power cables. The PS1 being the best audio player ever created (but only one very specific model of it). Magical $100 rocks (that's per rock. It's actually more of a small pebble, really) you put in the corner of your room or tape onto your cable. Burning in your headphones. And so many more.
Here's one:
RockwoodInstall.png

You place special rocks around your system to make audio sound better.

http://audiophile.rocks/rockwood.htmlhttp://audiophile.rocks/rockwood.html
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,284
The same goes for the bit depth too. 16 bit gives you a maximum possible signal-to-noise ratio of 96 dB. 24 bit would increase that to 144 dB, which, if played as such, would be far above the threshold of discomfort. Again, it's useful for studios, but that's above it.
I don't think that's how it works right? The SNR level in dB is not equal to the volume in decibels. If you use an amp to increase the volume, your SNR level would stay the same regardless of the magnitude of amplification (assuming an amp of 0 noise figure). The intensity of your audio signal would change, but that's different than the SNR.
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,039
I don't think that's how it works right? The SNR level in dB is not equal to the volume in decibels. If you use an amp to increase the volume, your SNR level would stay the same regardless of the magnitude of amplification (assuming an amp of 0 noise figure). The intensity of your audio signal would change, but that's different than the SNR.
You're right, I worded that a bit wrong. What I meant with "played as such" is if you want to "use" the full SNR (as in, actually hear a difference to a lower SNR) you'd had to play the music beyond the threshold of discomfort. Beside the point that probably no audio hardware is actually capable of a 144 db SNR.
 

Hopewell

Member
Jan 17, 2018
513
Here's one:
RockwoodInstall.png

You place special rocks around your system to make audio sound better.

http://audiophile.rocks/rockwood.html

I can't believe this lol.

The thing is that the placebo effect is real. So even if all of these things have absolutely zero real impact, people will actually feel better or will hear a better sound, etc...

For me, acupuncture won't work because I don't believe it. But one of my friend said it helped him feeling more relaxed. In that way it's not a complete scam.

It's completely different when it comes to serious diseases however...
I went to some kind of church in Boston and the brochure said that prayer could heal everything . That if you have broken bones or any kind of diseases, there was no need to go to the doctor.
 
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Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,254
Like any of the shit that pyramid schemers ... i mean multi-level-marketers ... i mean network marketers(?) ... peddle

The energy drinks, the herbal supplements, the bitcoin trading secrets, the weight loss coffee, the cashback cards, the wraps. Anything.

Always makes me sad when i see people join shit like that, because:
a) they're dumber than i expected them to be,
or worse
b) they're ruthlessly trying to profit of people that are dumb enough to be recruited by them.
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
One of my close relatives believes all kinds of medical horseshit. Some of it is ridiculous yet harmless, like "earthing," which is attaching wires staked in the earth to metal meshes he places in his chair and mattress. He says they connect him to the energies of the earth, as though he were standing barefoot outside. He also keeps a rod soaking in his bottle of water in the theory that something about the rod makes water "wetter and more absorbable." Moronic, but again, probably harmless (granted, the rod cost $90). Lately, however, he has begun taking colloidal silver, which has infamously permanently turned people blue/grey like sickly smurfs (he has not changed color, luckily). For this I called him a "fucking idiot," and it led to us losing touch for a while. Freaking Gwyneth Paltrow was pushing that shit IIRC. I don't think he has been to a doctor since Bill Clinton was president.

The whole topic is a weird, depressing thing to negotiate. On the plus side, he is childless and probably always will be, so he won't ever endanger a kid by, say, not vaccinating. His views only endanger himself. The other problem is that he's very, very smart, which makes him good at rationalizing all this nonsense. Plus if I go too hard on it, he just withdraws, which doesn't help things, either. At least he is healthy for now.

Edit: I have an in-law who had similarly peculiar/conspiratorial health practices, albeit from a right-wing Christian evangelical Catholic perspective (yes, there are evangelical Catholics). She got ovarian cancer and tried treating it for a year with prayer, "special" water, and herbs. Died at age 42 and left behind four teenage kids. Would she still be alive if she'd gone for conventional treatment earlier? Maybe. But it's not like her example has made her husband or kids any less into weird alternative Christian health products. If anything they got more into it. And if their own mom dying won't change their minds, what the hell can?
 
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Goat Mimicry

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
Transcendental meditation. It's publically framed as nothing more than relaxation technique when it's really a religion/pseudo-cult that believes the act of meditation literally has positive effects on the area around the meditators.

There's too much stupid shit to list, but my favorite is the videos of people bouncing on their asses. The supporters say it's a burst of energy from meditation that causes those people to temporarily levitate.
 

Lady Murasaki

Scary Shiny Glasses
Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
Detox juice. Man, your body gets rid of everything you don't need already. You can't clean your blood.

I also take my multi vitamins, which are kinda of a scam by themselves but actually helped me with issues originated from a Vitamin D deficiency, but "beauty suplements"?

But I think the worst still homeopathy. This girl from work, always nice and polite, got horribly violent when I mentioned I didn't know if I believed it. She defended it like I was saying some kind of blasphemy.

Bonus: The day my boss made us to watch a video about "the power of words" with a "study" where supposedly apples rot faster when people shouted and called them names.
 

Atraveller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,308
I can't believe this lol.

The thing is that the placebo effect is real. So even if all of these things have absolutely zero real impact, people will actually feel better or will hear a better sound, etc...
Bias is real, that's why you never see audio reviewers do blind comparisons.

I recently found a blog of a Harman research fellow. He talked about visual bias caused by build quality and price tag, and eliminating the possiblity of testers identifying headphones by weight and clamp force in blind tests by EQ-ing the same pair to sound like different pairs.
 

shnurgleton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,864
Boston
Errr, but Bose is good? I've had nothing but positive experiences with their products, and their noise canceling earphones are by far the best combination of comfort and functionality. While maybe a bit overpriced they are certainly not scammers like Monster Cable

I'd say about 99% of the things places like GNC sell are snake oil, dietary supplements and the like
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
The day my boss made us to watch a video about "the power of words" with a "study" where supposedly apples rot faster when people shouted and called them names.
I've heard this shit get repeated a lot by (college-educated) acquaintances and friends. Sometimes it's bean sprouts, other times it's crystals. I have no idea why people want to believe this so badly.
 

Shadybiz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,121
Herbalife. It's an expensive protein powder.

Any "7 day cleanse," or any of that bullshit. Yeah, you lose weight because you're on a 500 calorie per day diet. You can do that without buying a fancy formula.

Monster cables. It carries 1's and 0's.

Chiropractors....MOSTLY. The guys that tell you it will cure cancer, prevent heart disease, whatever, they're all scammers. Now I DID have some success with one, for relieving pain on an old lower back injury. I aggravated it once after lifting weights, and once after playing golf. Both times, I waited 4 or 5 days, it still hurt, with the same exact level of pain each day. Threw in the towel and went to the chiropractor. Next day, I was back to normal, after dealing with the same level of pain for days. Can't be coincidence. He didn't CURE the issue; I know that. It will come back if I do something dumb, but he did relieve the immediate pain.

Oh, and Donald Trump. One of the most successful snake oil salesmen ever. Got half a country to buy into his bullshit, and it sickens me.
 

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,320
Dermolex Psoriasis treatment. Pretty sure that shit is standard moisturiser as 10x the price
 

Lady Murasaki

Scary Shiny Glasses
Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
The Bulletproof Coffee brand.

I tried a DIY version of the bulletproof coffee when I was doing intermittent fasting, and it was nice, but nothing miraculous as they profess.

Thousands of grad students and researchers struggle to get their grants, and someone got paid to bully fruit.

Sometimes I really wonder how this kind of ''research'' gets funded.

I've heard this shit get repeated a lot by (college-educated) acquaintances and friends. Sometimes it's bean sprouts, other times it's crystals. I have no idea why people want to believe this so badly.

I have this impression that college-educated people are almost more susceptible to this kind of thing and conspiracy theories in general. I had a college professor, very smart and successful, that believed in 'globalism' and 'evil Soros'. And a senior from work is one of the most passionate global warming deniers I've seen - and he is an agricultural engineer, to begin with.

Edit: I have an in-law who had similarly peculiar/conspiratorial health practices, albeit from a right-wing Christian evangelical Catholic perspective (yes, there are evangelical Catholics). She got ovarian cancer and tried treating it for a year with prayer, "special" water, and herbs. Died at age 42 and left behind four teenage kids. Would she still be alive if she'd gone for conventional treatment earlier? Maybe. But it's not like her example has made her husband or kids any less into weird alternative Christian health products. If anything they got more into it. And if their own mom dying won't change their minds, what the hell can?

This is some dark territory right here. I saw some terrible things happening when I attended divine cure services in a church which originated from the tent evangelists of the 1950's. To exemplify quickly, the pastor told this elderly woman in a wheelchair that she was cured and make her 'walk' (with other people holding her) and forbade her to use the wheelchair. Obviously, she needed it again and then he shamed her publicly saying that God took her cure away because she wasn't worthy of it and didn't have enough faith.
 

Gakidou

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,612
pip pip cheerio fish & chips
Also, Fish Oil is fucking stupid.

Wait what's wrong with fish oil? Like sure I think people go overboard with vitamin supplements and adding omega-3 to everything as some cure-all but is fatty fish not supposed to still be a good part of a varied diet? Having a salmon dinner every now and then is my go-to for if my mental health starts flagging. I thought that frontal lobe stuff was legit. *Something* seems to be working for me anyway.
 

Batatina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,267
Edinburgh, UK
I think any form of gay pill/treatment is the worst kind of snake oil, because not only does it cost a lot, it also destroys lifes and has huge repercussions to society.
 

Deleted member 2834

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,620
High end audio equipment is a rip-off. "Audiophiles" are either deluded or rationalizing their overpriced equipment.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
I don't think fish oil qualifies. A few grams of omega 3 fats with DHA has a lot of evidence to support improving health. With that said, I think people grossly exaggerate how much it improves health. Also totally not needed if you eat wild/grass fed meats or fish. It's sort of like B vitamins - if you get them already it's a waste, but if you don't is super useful. People usually take it too far - like when there was evidence for olive oil being healthy in small amounts, people started putting it in everything and even cook with extra virgin olive oil which immediately burns and probably becomes carcinogenic.

One I'm currently not sure of is CBD oil. I've had THC stuff so I know the high. My wife's CBD oil seems to give a slight anti-anxiety effect, but I don't know if it's in my head.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,229
I know the creators father. Met him several times. I can't really make a judgement call on it. Some of the principles seem like they might have some merit. But it probably has no real marked effectiveness.

For me it's probably Linus Pauling and Vitamin C/Vitamin industry.

I tried a DIY version of the bulletproof coffee when I was doing intermittent fasting, and it was nice, but nothing miraculous as they profess.

This is not specific to the idea of butter in coffee (I mean duh, heavy fat is obv going to make you full) but more his pushing of his own branded coffee which claims is free of some toxins and microbes found in other coffees.

Stuff like this:
This coffee is farmed, screened and tested for 27 toxins according to the Bulletproof Process
Bulletproof uses a thorough, sustainable washing technique, rather than cheaper and more wasteful traditional methods that involve soaking coffee in large fermentation tanks. The coffee is then kept as dry as possible—under the bright sun and then in mechanical driers—to reduce moisture and opportunities for mold to grow.

Coffee has been getting processed via water for decades and tons of world winning brewers & roasters have used traditionally processed coffee for their stuff. To act like mold just grows willy nilly and the 'toxins' is just ludicrous.
 

Deleted member 11626

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,199
$100 hdmi cables

"Multilevel marketing"

I had friends that tried to sell both those Verve energy drinks and some anti aging skin products called Nerium. My Verve friend wasted almost $1000 on the drinks and claimed he was going to see a return on that. Once he realized none of us were going to fall for it and when he failed to produce meaningful sales he dropped it and, to his credit, acknowledges how ridiculous the whole scheme was. I feel for him though because he was strapped for cash and couldn't seem to ever find a decent job. That's probably how they roped him in. I remember the guy that ran the company producing the drinks was all over Twitter years ago about how he was starting a revolution and shit.

My other friend, gullible as fuck unfortunately, gave a whole presentation about how much Nerium works and how much it did for her (she's already got good skin though) and gave me a sample to try. I used it once and she swore it had an effect on my pores but I saw nothing. It took her a bit but she eventually saw through it too
 

Lady Murasaki

Scary Shiny Glasses
Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
This is not specific to the idea of butter in coffee (I mean duh, heavy fat is obv going to make you full) but more his pushing of his own branded coffee which claims is free of some toxins and microbes found in other coffees.


Coffee has been getting processed via water for decades and tons of world winning brewers & roasters have used traditionally processed coffee for their stuff. To act like mold just grows willy nilly and the 'toxins' is just ludicrous.

This is so common I'm kinda annoyed by it lately. People take something ''common sense'' and that actually works and promote it, BUT ONLY if you by theirs that is obtained from plants that grew inside a crystal greenhouse inside the Parthenon and harvested by virgin priestesses during the Solstice. And then they charge 5x the normal price and create a cult around it.

That's a lot of this kind of things in the cosmetic industry too. Brands charging $100 for a 30ml marula oil bottle because supposedly it is extracted using a fancy exclusive process. And tons of influencers ''any other source WON'T WORK!!!". Obviously, there are production processes that are better than others but claim that something that probably would work anyway is exclusive to your brand is just marketing illusion and many times, gimmicky.
 

Oynox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
884
Anti virus software. It is sad to see people believe they are protected by them. It's more like a gold cage. But I guess as people feel safe it does not matter lol
 

Oynox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
884
I know I could google but I'm not entirely sure I want to.
Gwyneth Paltrow brought those eggs to attention on her lifestyle blog and got massive flack for it last year. Here's an article about the mess:
https://www.vox.com/science-and-hea.../goop-gwyneth-paltrow-jade-vagina-egg-defense

I mean she also claimed a correlation between wire bras and breast cancer soo...

The only thing true about those eggs is that the vaginal muscles get strengthened but you can achieve that with cheaper, dedicated methods as well.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,073
Gwyneth Paltrow brought those eggs to attention on her lifestyle blog and got massive flack for it last year. Here's an article about the mess:
https://www.vox.com/science-and-hea.../goop-gwyneth-paltrow-jade-vagina-egg-defense

I mean she also claimed a correlation between wire bras and breast cancer soo...

The only thing true about those eggs is that the vaginal muscles get strengthened but you can achieve that with cheaper, dedicated methods as well.
.......the fuck?