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Would military intervention be alright to save the Amazon?
- Thread starter BackLogJoe
- Start date
- Status
The problem with these awful regimes is they're almost always allied with China and/or Russia. That complicates the situation.
The better solution for the present would be to stop doing business Brazil, and sanction the hell out of their exports that are related to the deforestation.
The better solution for the present would be to stop doing business Brazil, and sanction the hell out of their exports that are related to the deforestation.
Americans thinking their military killing hundreds of thousands will solve any given problem in a foreign country.
Bolsonaro is bff with Trump and doesnt like China, idk about Russia though
Are you fucking serious? What would intervention look like? How does the military strike? Do you think Steve Rogers just jumps out of a plane, 1-2s Bolsonaro and then everything's fine?
It's so telling of the collective american psyche that this is where your brain goes.
It's so telling of the collective american psyche that this is where your brain goes.
Question for the swathes of people who keep insinuating that under the right circumstances this could work or in theory this could work, why do you think the deforestation is happening?
If you're aware that the answer is because Brazil is the number one beef exporter in the word and that demand for beef in China, the USA, and the eu is constantly going up while arable land is incredibly scarce because the animals themselves need a lot of land on top of the crops needed to feed them then why do you believe military intervention could possibly be a solution to a problem those same countries that would intervene are the cause of.
If you're aware that the answer is because Brazil is the number one beef exporter in the word and that demand for beef in China, the USA, and the eu is constantly going up while arable land is incredibly scarce because the animals themselves need a lot of land on top of the crops needed to feed them then why do you believe military intervention could possibly be a solution to a problem those same countries that would intervene are the cause of.
Brazil really needs a regime change but this is not something the US should or would do unilaterally.
Ok, the sanctions are still the way to go over invading, at this point, though.
I have a crazy idea. How about we pay them back for all the shit we did to the region over the last few hundred years by building infrastructure and providing actual aid instead of sanctions to influence their government to stop burning shit down. You know...like all that soft power shit that people like to push.
I have no idea if military intervention is "alright" to save the Amazon. Super complex issue. But military action is an inevitable result of climate change and ecological disaster. And there is no guarantee it will be for good/altruistic reasons. More likely wars will be started to gain resources and maintain standard of living once that standard begins to decline due to climate.
How about this? The US can go bomb Brazil because of Bolsonaro, if some other army can bomb the fuck out of the US because of Trump.
The ide being that it would be a group of nations intervening for entirely benevolent reasons.
Of course if we lived in such a fantasy world then the current situation in the Amazon wouldn't be in the situation that it's currently in.
From what I heard on the radio this morning, the problem is Bolsonaro himself. Before he came along, Brazil was apparently doing a pretty good job minimising the damage done to the Amazon. Then he showed up and doesn't care about the forest at all so it's all going to shit.
Jesus christ.
I'm a huge environmentalist, besides some income inequality stuff its probably my most important voting issue.
But Military Intervention? The Amazon is important but people gotta stop acting like this fire is
1. going to encompass the whole or even close to majority of the forest
2. Going to affect oxygen levels in any significant way.
Besides, sanctions and other non violent means would be much more effective.
I'm a huge environmentalist, besides some income inequality stuff its probably my most important voting issue.
But Military Intervention? The Amazon is important but people gotta stop acting like this fire is
1. going to encompass the whole or even close to majority of the forest
2. Going to affect oxygen levels in any significant way.
Besides, sanctions and other non violent means would be much more effective.
While it's true that the current government is fucking awful on this issue, it's never one person. Remember, Brazil is not deforesting the Amazon for fun, there are economic interests pushing for this.
I'm sure the CIA has plans built out for regime change of every major country on earth. Hell, they've done it countless times in South America already.
The primary purpose of the CIA in that regard is to maintain American hegemony, you'd think they'd be looking into this for the repercussions it has on the world.
The primary purpose of the CIA in that regard is to maintain American hegemony, you'd think they'd be looking into this for the repercussions it has on the world.
Ignoring the legal and ethical qualms with invading a sovereign nation just to preserve a critical feature of the global environment (because that's horrifying), in a practical matter no. The United States, which is the only military in the globe with any reasonable capability for power projection, is geared towards fighting in open, flat, or mountainous terrain, not a jungle. And as we saw in Vietnam, modern warfare involves destroying dense vegetation to clear fields of fire, not preserving it.
And, of course, the US isn't exactly able to start yet another war right now, especially one that would overthrow the government of a democratically elected head of state.
A better avenue of approach would be using economic power. Unfortunately that would require bringing onboard countries like China, Russia, and Saudi Arabia, who are the chief importers of Brazilian beef.
And, of course, the US isn't exactly able to start yet another war right now, especially one that would overthrow the government of a democratically elected head of state.
A better avenue of approach would be using economic power. Unfortunately that would require bringing onboard countries like China, Russia, and Saudi Arabia, who are the chief importers of Brazilian beef.
Brazil has always had a problem with deforestation of the Amazon. It's just that now they have a leader who is actively encouraging that deforestation instead of disapproving of but failing to limit it.
Id think intervention in regime change.
Atm there is a gov/man who thinks he is trump and doesnt give a damn about finger wagging or sanctions ( which would be limited because china and Russia would never sign on). And even if they had an effect by then damage would be done.
Its sad that there are people who oppose violence so much that even when a scientist says " The Amazon is approaching a point of no return, if not reversed it will eventually turn into a savannah, killing most of the life in it and releasing the equivalent of 150 years of CO2 into the atmosphere."
And even with such dire warnings, we get "well jeez warmongers! Have ya tried talking to him first! We should sanction them! We should just prepare for the worst" no! We all have a stake in climate change and if the world has to act to save people then hell yes we should remove the government and help save whats left of it.
Atm there is a gov/man who thinks he is trump and doesnt give a damn about finger wagging or sanctions ( which would be limited because china and Russia would never sign on). And even if they had an effect by then damage would be done.
Its sad that there are people who oppose violence so much that even when a scientist says " The Amazon is approaching a point of no return, if not reversed it will eventually turn into a savannah, killing most of the life in it and releasing the equivalent of 150 years of CO2 into the atmosphere."
And even with such dire warnings, we get "well jeez warmongers! Have ya tried talking to him first! We should sanction them! We should just prepare for the worst" no! We all have a stake in climate change and if the world has to act to save people then hell yes we should remove the government and help save whats left of it.
Sure, let the biggest environmental villains in the history of the world go berserk once again. Maybe if US environmentalists want to help the environment they can start with their own country. Kick everyone out of some of your states and plant some trees there...
This would be the first time in a while that it wasn't specifically to quash a workers' rights / socialist movement.
This. Also Trump represents a bigger danger to the planet than Bolsonaro.
You're asking me if it's "alright" to invade my country and potentially kill thousands of people including myself so that the US, our lord and saviors and also the country with the second highest carbon dioxide emission in the world, can protect the environment?
My answer is no, and also, fuck you.
My answer is no, and also, fuck you.
Pretty much this, at the very least Russia & China needs to approve it before any intervention even gets seriously considered.
This is a horribly naive idea.
International sanctions and turning Brazil into a pariah state will get rid of Bolsonaro much quicker than some ham fisted military intervention.
International sanctions and turning Brazil into a pariah state will get rid of Bolsonaro much quicker than some ham fisted military intervention.
They need to be sanctioned until we can reach a global agreement on protections and draw lines of the Amazon that are officially off limits to deforest or heavy economic sanctions and political pressure will be reimplemented
This shouldn't just be the US. The planet needs to get together to make this happen
Invade? Uh.. no....that would make this worse and make any sort of diplomatic pressure impossible and do nothing but help solidify their fascist leaders position/ justify fascism to Brazillian voters
This shouldn't just be the US. The planet needs to get together to make this happen
Invade? Uh.. no....that would make this worse and make any sort of diplomatic pressure impossible and do nothing but help solidify their fascist leaders position/ justify fascism to Brazillian voters
This shit never ever worked, the US couldn't make regime change work in tiny ass Caribbean nations, it ain't gonna make it work on the world 5th biggest country, and it most certainly not gonna be the clowns who are currently in the white house who are gonna break this "0 for" streak the US has.
Saying "this will only lead to disaster, because this is literally what happens every single time the US tries this shit" is not the same "being opposed to violence".
The US Military is the single largest institutional emitter of carbon. so no
why don't we help the indigenous peoples who call it home instead of more colonial fantasies
why don't we help the indigenous peoples who call it home instead of more colonial fantasies
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