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Would you rather Resident Evil 8 play like RE7 or RE2R?
- Thread starter SolVanderlyn
- Start date
That's a gard question to answer. But I will answer the flip side of it and explain exactly why RE7 would have been a worse game in third person. Every scare in the game would not have worked as well. It would have killed a lot of the immersion and intimacy that first person brought. Mia coming up the stairs and seeing her monster face right in your face before throwing you. That would not have worked anywhere near as effectively in third person. Jack coming in to the bathroom and lifting you by the throat. The scene where Mia chainsaw's your arm off. The dinner scene. I could go on. So many scenes in RE7 are effective because of first person. Third person can't offer the same experience, and attempting to include both would either be at the detriment to the design of the game in first person, or the third person mode would be a tacked on mode that the game isn't really supposed to be played in.
Right, I understand that, but now in RE2 remake you have Mr X chasing you, and he can grab you and throw you similar to how the father in RE7 could chase you.
With RE2 they didn't really have as many of those intense scares like RE7 had, so if they design the game around RE7 in terms of the immersion and detail and then give you a third person option where's the harm in those players who'd prefer to play it in third person? Yea it won't be as immersive as the fp view but it's not like it'd be unplayable or something and RE2 remake shows there's really nothing in third person that wouldn't work in First person as far as the third person design goes within the past third person RE games.
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Remember when Leon and Claire became best friends after like 2 conversations? The entire plot of RE2 is outright wonky as hell. The logistics. The timeline. The character arcs. None of it really adds up. The characters and their motivations are flimsy. It's one of those stories that only works if every single character in the story is dumb and just does what the plot demand they do. Sherry doesn't make sense as a character. Irons behaves bizarrely. The entire kidnapping Sherry plot is flimsy as hell. Claire doesn't make sense. The bond Claire and Sherry form does not make sense. Leon doesn't make sense. The entire storyline about Leon turning up late to the job is baffling. The entire central plot of Leon and Claire reaching Raccoon City is pure asspull plot logic. Ada and her behavior doesn't make sense. Annette Birkin does the contrived "this situation could be resolved by saying a few words to Leon but she'll wait right until the end to say them" thing.
Ada is a walking anime spy cliche. Ada's survival is absurd. She falls a gazillion meters, then manages to throw Leon a rocket launcher. You're deep underground, and you take an elevator even deeper underground, which leads to a train line that exits at ground level. They have a super useful self destruct system that allows people to leave on foot despite the fact the self-destruct is supposed to stop the virus leaving the facility. It's like they needed to have a countdown, but they didn't think through the basic logic or logistics behind Umbrella's security system.
RE2 was always an extremely slipshod narrative with poorly constructed characters and erratic plotting. A deeply contrived excuse to have a literal handful of survivors in a gigantic city. The overarching narrative takes place over a week, with plot holes you could drive a large truck through. The overlapping scenarios are outright nonsensical. Nothing about Leon and Claire existing in the same space makes sense. They fight the same bosses. They solve the same puzzles.
Resident Evil 7 is a game with a central narrative that holds up to basic scrutiny. The characters, their relationships, the logistics behind the story, the flow of events, the timeline -- it actually works. Characters like Lucas make sense. They have well developed character arcs. A lot of effort went into ensuring the basic chronology of the plot holds up to more than 30 seconds of scrutiny.
Don't get me wrong. I like RE2. I have a big soft spot for hammy RE writing. But it's not good writing or acting. RE7, for me, was a huge step up for the series in terms of writing and acting. RE2 Remake feels like a regression. It feels like a throwback to a somewhat poorly written Capcom game from the 90s. And I mean, you do have to give them credit for trying to preserve aspects of the original. Historically, a lot of Resident Evil fans have defended Resident Evil's poor writing, poor characterization, and more by saying, "Oh, it's meant to be hammy, it's charming, etc." RE7 is hammy. RE7 is charming. But RE7 is genuinely well written. The characters feel like real people, and not paper thin plot devices. They have depth beyond their archetype. Look at RE2. Leon is a one note character. Ada is a one note character. She's so one note she didn't change one bit across RE2, RE4, RE6, Damnation, etc. She has no depth or meaning.
Compare that to Jack in RE7. There was more heart and soul in the Daughters DLC episode of RE7 than the entire game of RE2 Remake. This close-knit family, led by their loving and generous father Jack, who rescue a little girl from a storm. How the love this family shares is twisted by Evie. In the background is Lucas, the evil son who hides his true nature from the other family members. We see Jack's courage as he tries to protect his family. That stuff was beautifully done. Real. True.
RE2 Remake has none of that. It's just paper thin characters going through the motions. Leon and Claire meet, and from that moment not a single line of dialogue feels genuine. The way they interact is bizarre. It's like a deleted scene from High School Musical with zombies added in post. Their entire relationship rings hollow and false. Claire and Sherry is similarly a paper thin imitation of a real human relationship. It's like watching paint dry. There's no pathos there. It's like a story written by a team whose entire exposure to the human race is anime characters and Resident Evil characters.
I just hope they make more VR horror games, I don't care if they are mainline episodes or spin offs or even a totally new franchise. RE7 is amazing and I want more. I don't want more traditional RE, but some people do and it's ok. Just don't put all your eggs in one basket, Capcom. You can give something to everyone.
Absolutely, RE2R's gameplay is way deeper and more interesting than RE7's.
It is really hard to do a game that works well supporting multiple perspectives. Picking one and sticking to that without compromising design is the way to go. It informs so much about how the game will be produced, not only design wise but also asset creation, level design spaces and lots of other things.
I feel this "RE7/4/5/6/whatever is not a REAL RE game" narrative is getting tiring. Not only is it insulting to the creators of these games, it is also a false statement. Just point out what you don't like about a game instead of using purity arguments.
I love REmake, REmake 2, I love RE7, I love RE4/5. I feel that changing the formula around has worked really well for the series and I think that's why it is still relevant today.
I feel this "RE7/4/5/6/whatever is not a REAL RE game" narrative is getting tiring. Not only is it insulting to the creators of these games, it is also a false statement. Just point out what you don't like about a game instead of using purity arguments.
I love REmake, REmake 2, I love RE7, I love RE4/5. I feel that changing the formula around has worked really well for the series and I think that's why it is still relevant today.
Resident Evil 7. RE7 was so close to being an absolute top tier Resident Evil game, that it'd be a damn shame to completely abandon the formula now.
Also, being honest but REmake 2 already has some RE7 DNA in it, but I think RE7 does some things better than REmake 2 and differently outside of camera. I know deep down people are just showing some camera bias, but I want them to further explore what they did with RE7 with RE8 and explore more what they did with REmake 2 elsewhere.
Also, being honest but REmake 2 already has some RE7 DNA in it, but I think RE7 does some things better than REmake 2 and differently outside of camera. I know deep down people are just showing some camera bias, but I want them to further explore what they did with RE7 with RE8 and explore more what they did with REmake 2 elsewhere.
RE2 Remake.
3rd Person View aaaaaaaaalllllllll the way.
I'm sure CAPCOM could do both as option in 8, just like Red Dead Redemption 2 & The Evil Within 2.
Win win for all sides.
3rd Person View aaaaaaaaalllllllll the way.
I'm sure CAPCOM could do both as option in 8, just like Red Dead Redemption 2 & The Evil Within 2.
Win win for all sides.
One of the main things that bugs me about first-person is that it's often too easy to get side-swiped by something just off camera or just behind camera, whereas if you were actually there, you'd notice something in your peripheral or hear something behind you that can't be replicated without surround sound and fisheye view. Maybe it's better in VR, but not everyone has access to that.
If I remember correctly RE: Dead Aim had a flash indicator if there was something that was about to attack you from just off-camera. And there'd need to be a way to implement that that wasn't super hokey and immersion breaking.
But, until then, having the camera just behind your character would be decent, I feel. I am torn, because there were a lot of cool things about RE7 atmospherically. And the ability to at least put your hands up in defense and duck is something that RE2R could've used just to be believable (even an average person can do that, if not quickly dodge Revelations-style, let alone a cop). But, I'm leaning more toward RE2R gameplay-wise.
If I remember correctly RE: Dead Aim had a flash indicator if there was something that was about to attack you from just off-camera. And there'd need to be a way to implement that that wasn't super hokey and immersion breaking.
But, until then, having the camera just behind your character would be decent, I feel. I am torn, because there were a lot of cool things about RE7 atmospherically. And the ability to at least put your hands up in defense and duck is something that RE2R could've used just to be believable (even an average person can do that, if not quickly dodge Revelations-style, let alone a cop). But, I'm leaning more toward RE2R gameplay-wise.
Yes! First-person genuinely depresses me. I can't stand not seeing my character and it makes everything feel unnatural to me.
Not a fan of first person horror. It's SUPPOSED to draw you in and make it more personal, but in practice I find it's the opposite. Maybe it's better in VR, I wouldn't know since I didn't get a chance to play 7 in VR... but being in VR brings about it's own issues with playability, at least as far as VR currently is and works (from my personal experiences with my setup).
RE2make was the perfect balance for me between classic and modern and I felt suitably immersed. The fact that the jump scares worked more effective on me this way than RE7 says something... but yeah it's obviously going to be a personal decision.
RE2make was the perfect balance for me between classic and modern and I felt suitably immersed. The fact that the jump scares worked more effective on me this way than RE7 says something... but yeah it's obviously going to be a personal decision.
I prefer REmake 2, but I'd like to see them take another stab at a game in the RE7 mold. RE7 is so close to being excellent and only really feels held back by its budget. Would love RE8 to come along and perfect what they did with it.
There's no gameplay depth in RE7 in my opinion. RE2 even with just the zombies felt much deeper and more varied.
I can fight RE2 zombies all day without getting bored but the mud people in RE7 got real boring already on my 3rd playthrough.
It's not just about third person vs first perosn bias, it's the first person gameplay of RE7 being incredibly shallow and one dimensional.
The first person controls greatly limit your ability to maneuver and avoid attacks, thus enemies & bosses' movesets needs to be watered down just so you can read their attacks better and not get hit all the time.
You can't make a RE7 game with this type of boss design and gameplay, period. RE2's skill ceiling is simply much higher than RE7, and thus more interesting and replayable. There's a lot to master in RE2, even just pulling off a Mr.X juke felt incredibly satisfying.
Try pulling THIS off in first person gameplay, I dare ya:
Camera perspective and combat/enemy design are linked together, it's not just camera bias, more like gameplay depth bias.
I can fight RE2 zombies all day without getting bored but the mud people in RE7 got real boring already on my 3rd playthrough.
It's not just about third person vs first perosn bias, it's the first person gameplay of RE7 being incredibly shallow and one dimensional.
The first person controls greatly limit your ability to maneuver and avoid attacks, thus enemies & bosses' movesets needs to be watered down just so you can read their attacks better and not get hit all the time.
You can't make a RE7 game with this type of boss design and gameplay, period. RE2's skill ceiling is simply much higher than RE7, and thus more interesting and replayable. There's a lot to master in RE2, even just pulling off a Mr.X juke felt incredibly satisfying.
Try pulling THIS off in first person gameplay, I dare ya:
Camera perspective and combat/enemy design are linked together, it's not just camera bias, more like gameplay depth bias.
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That's more of an "enemy" problem than first person problem though. FP RE2 would also be way more fun than FP RE7.
That's the thing, first person perspective limits enemy design and their attacks.
The video I posted above demonstrated it perfectly, you simply can not have boss fights and skill ceiling like this in first person RE.
That would be cool if there were two views you were able to choose from during the game... Am I too spoiled and want too much?
I always viewed it like this:
Pre-rendered trilogy:
RE 1
RE 2
RE 3
Third Person trilogy:
RE 4
RE 5
RE 6
First Person trilogy:
RE 7
RE 8
RE 9
Pre-rendered trilogy:
RE 1
RE 2
RE 3
Third Person trilogy:
RE 4
RE 5
RE 6
First Person trilogy:
RE 7
RE 8
RE 9
On the two views thing, I'd rather the game focus on one view and do it very well than try to do both and both prevent design decisions from happening. While camera doesn't dictate gameplay style, and the fact I see some here acting like it does for first-person right after we got a RE game with an OTS camera that not even a year ago people would've argued is more tailored to action RE games and that disappoints me, but there is a difference in framing involved. Horror games more than most genres is far more about the framing of things than the pure mechanical depth, mechanics obviously play a role but what's almost more important in a horror game is how everything is framed and executed.
Providing both cameras I'm not saying couldn't work, but it also limits somewhat how certain aspects can be framed, and it risks stifling creativity as you then have to make sure everything works for both angles rather than designing for one.
Providing both cameras I'm not saying couldn't work, but it also limits somewhat how certain aspects can be framed, and it risks stifling creativity as you then have to make sure everything works for both angles rather than designing for one.
Have the remakes be third person and the mainline titles first person.
Or do both for both. Give us the option to toggle the two like TEW2 does.
Or do both for both. Give us the option to toggle the two like TEW2 does.
Why not both? I like the ability to see my character, but at the same time I like the restricted view that a first person perspective brings. Why not the ability to choose a camera angle in the settings?
Although whatever they choose I'd like to be able to see a little more than the RPD or have the ability to light up areas like in later areas of RE2make.
Although whatever they choose I'd like to be able to see a little more than the RPD or have the ability to light up areas like in later areas of RE2make.
Not a fan of first person for RE. I liked 7 well enough but I thought it was quite forgettable. I'm glad it put the series back on track but I definitely prefer the RE2R approach. I think likable protagonists are one of the main reasons people are attached to these games in the first place. Playing a nobody isn't great. And the first person gameplay was so-so, it had very little replay value for me. I love Alien Isolation and Amanda Ripley though. But that game was a small miracle.
Still, I have no doubt that 8 is well into development and will be in first person, which is fine, I'll still play it. I hope the main character will be more memorable though.
Still, I have no doubt that 8 is well into development and will be in first person, which is fine, I'll still play it. I hope the main character will be more memorable though.
RE7's combat was terrible. Didn't play in VR and I don't know how much different it is there, but first person combat just sucks
One of the little things I really liked about RE7 was how closing doors behind you was a key part of the gameplay and the game retained the whole door means safety aspect of classic RE.
Personally I want the game to control more like 'Contagion VR Outbreak' but developed by a decent sized team (in VR if that isn't clear). Don't really care about a standard mode any more as RE7 showed the light.
Didn't care for the stupid guard mechanics in RE7, as it didn't make much sense either how Ethan could just guard at any cosmic monstrosity trying to bite his nipples off.
The first person didn't feel right, but everything else about the game was great.
The first person didn't feel right, but everything else about the game was great.
I understand that the point of first person is to blur the lines between the player and the character, but RE isn't a new IP. The series is several entries in and loses part of its charm when a central part of the story, the main character, is essentially a non factor.
Guarding was something I virtually never used on my first playthrough. Think I used it once when the game first prompts it then ignored it. It was only in Madhouse that I actually seriously used the mechanic. I ended up appreciating it on Madhouse.
As for it making sense, I don't see the issue. It doesn't even protect you from all damage. Just lowers the damage you recieve, which makes sense.
Leon Kennedy is the exact same character regardless of whether you're playing in first person or third person. James Bond is one of the most iconic fictional characters ever, and he's not suddenly less charming and Bond-like in first person. People buy a James Bond game for James Bond.
Now I'm sure there are some people who don't like first person Bond games. They prefer the likes of Everything or Nothing or Blood Stone. This ideological split comes up a lot. But regardless, James Bond being the protagonist of a James Bond game is not a non-factor. We see something similar with Joanna Dark, incidentally. Some people feel that Perfect Dark games such as the one MS are rumoured to be making need to be third person because they don't see the point of a female protagonist "that you can't see when you're playing." The ideological split between first and third person is stark, and a little one sided. There are people even on this forum who outright refuse to play first person games. You don't see many people who refuse to play third person ones.
Also, we have a first person mod for RE2 Remake already. It works pretty darn well, although it's not as polished as a native implementation yet. Some people talk about first person RE2 as some kind of hypothetical. It's a reality. A work in progress reality, but a reality nonetheless.
The sticking point design-wise is the third person cutscenes. In first person games, third person cutscenes tend to be more jarring. Switching perspectives for non-interactive sections expose the disconnect between actually playing the game and essentially watching a movie. RE7 strives to preserve perspective as much as possible, even if it requires using weird gimmicks like the VHS tapes.
When you play RE7, playing as Ethan, playing as Zoe, playing as Chris, and playing as Joe -- these are all distinct experiences. Distinct characters often with different mechanics. Even playing as Mia is different to playing as Ethan due to the shift in pacing and sudden introduction of mechanics. These characters are not non-factors.
