Writer Dan Slott talks about Spider-Man's "Instant-Kill Mode" (all MCU Spoilers)

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,513
Dude died... But let's think of a cute and clever way to avoid that with imminent death in your face again. Ffs people.
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,877
If this is his reaction to Peter "killing" the Outriders, he must have had a heartattack when he went ham on the drones in Far From Home.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,806
It's all Tony's fault.
First he gives him that instant kill mode and then grants him command over a whole fleet of killer drones that made those sniper helicarriers from Winter Soldier look like toys. He wants to turn Peter into a murder machine
 

modoversus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,132
México
modoversus

that tells me nothing. how is peter going to drop the infinity gauntlet to hand to hand combat dozens of swarming outriders with enough care as to not kill them?

you can't just pick and choose a single moment in this climactic battle that you want to nitpick and rewrite, it's part of an entire sequence of events that leaves Peter guarding the gauntlet from an overwhelming force of brutal killer alien dogs and not a lot of options. he can't rely on anyone else there, he can't put down the gauntlet, he has to get it to its destination immediately before he gets mauled and shredded to death within literal seconds, which would result in the entire universe being murdered

"just knock them out" isn't good writing
I'm not here to write fan fiction. Just saying that I would like kid spider-man not to kill, and that the movie could have done that if they wanted to.

Like, he's Spider-Man dude, he can just do Spider-Man stuff. He can like, dodge them and shoot webs and swing away with some cool CG and a well shot action sequence.

If he didn't use instant kill and somehow got away just using his wit and powers, and someone posted a thread saying "how come Spider-Man didn't use his fancy instant kill mode in Endgame" we would rightly be laughing at them because that's a "why aren't the other Avengers helping" lazy-ass criticism.

You can put Spidey in a situation where he's clearly up against the wall without him shredding dudes with his super suit. That's usually how it goes.
Yeah, pretty much.
 

ShaunB

Member
Oct 25, 2017
265
Peter's bloodlust was there from the start. Where's the spider that bit him?

"Spider's dead, Ned."

More like Murder-Man
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,842
England
I always forget how much Etcetera likes to make out Tony Stark to be a villain , shine on you crazy diamonds.
I think Stark is basically who Reed Richards is in the comics - a genius that teeters dangerously close to that edge, held back only by the woman he loves. I mean, Stark made a fortune designing and selling weapons to the highest bidder. When he realised just who he was selling those weapons to, he didn't stop making the weapons - he just kept them for himself.

At first it wasn't really an issue but, after New York, Stark totally lost it. Iron Man 3 was pretty clear that he was suffering a lot because of it and was designing dozens of suits because he was terrified of what was out there. Age of Ultron should have shown him that a suit of armour around the world was a terrible idea but, in Endgame, Stark revealed he never stopped believing in the idea. You could even argue EDITH was the realisation of that goal.

Stark might not be a villain but I'm not sure he can be trusted with the things he's capable of making.
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,985
Now that I think about it, has Marvel said anything about Thanos creatures? Just because they were in a war doesnt mean they were all bad
from what we saw in Infinity War, they're essentially mindless beasts

they started committing mass suicide just to try to open a gap in the energy shield
 

Soupman Prime

The Fallen
Nov 8, 2017
2,731
Boston, MA
When everyone talks about the usual top moments in Endgame I usually bring up this scene because I absolutely loved it. It was the perfect time to use it. Mindless enemies even Thanos doesn’t care about.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,416
What a dumb argument to make. The fate of the entire universe was at stake and the dude is gonna get worried over some bad guys getting got?


Seriously?
Don't people take the same issue with Resetera's beloved Man of Steel? The bad guy wanted to destroy Earth (or conquer it? whatever) and he couldn't be impeded (as strong as Superman) nor be convinced. Superman had to kill him.
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,985
from what I can tell from the movies, we're essentially talking about the moral equivalent of destroying ultron drones

they aren't sentient
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
5,405
To be honest, much like killing Zod, once you ignore the comic writers meta "no kill" rule it makes perfect justified sense in universe. Peter wouldn't think twice about killing those things, no sane human would. And nothing has been established in these films to say he'd be incapable or agaisnt it.

I personally have more of an issue with how Vulture accidently vaporised that one guy in Homecoming and it just gets litteraly shrugged off and ignored throughout the rest of the movie as it tries to convince us Toome's just a hard done by honestman trying to make ends meet.
 

Tace

Avenger
Nov 1, 2017
3,690
Slott talking out his ass and being a hypocrite, again. So glad he’s off Spider-Man.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,425
Atlanta GA
Slott talking out his ass and being a hypocrite, again. So glad he’s off Spider-Man.
his defense is such bullshit too

"Peter would come up with a very Peter Parker way out of the situation, because he's Peter Parker!" - in what amount of time? he had literal seconds to react before being mauled to death
"Or he'd get beat up and get back up!" - no he wouldn't, hence the "being mauled to death" bit
 

BronsonLee

it me
Member
Oct 24, 2017
16,272
To be honest, much like killing Zod, once you ignore the comic writers meta "no kill" rule it makes perfect justified sense in universe. Peter wouldn't think twice about killing those things, no sane human would. And nothing has been established in these films to say he'd be incapable or agaisnt it.

I personally have more of an issue with how Vulture accidently vaporised that one guy in Homecoming and it just gets litteraly shrugged off and ignored throughout the rest of the movie as it tries to convince us Toome's just a hard done by honestman trying to make ends meet.
Yeah it makes no sense to throw stones at Peter, but the vaporizing thing always bugged me

Same when Captain Cold killed a guard in Flash, once you kill one you're done for for me
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,058
Was any of Slott’s run good? The few issues I’ve read strike me as a guy in love with his own voice rather than a good characterization of Spider-Man. Am I off or am I reading the wrong stuff?
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,425
Atlanta GA
Was any of Slott’s run good? The few issues I’ve read strike me as a guy in love with his own voice rather than a good characterization of Spider-Man. Am I off or am I reading the wrong stuff?
Yes, there's good stuff in there. Overall, it's one of the better runs on Spider-Man because he is actually a pretty good writer. I just don't agree with his take on Spider-Man 100% of the time.

His Silver Surfer run is some amazing stuff
 

Tace

Avenger
Nov 1, 2017
3,690
his defense is such bullshit too

"Peter would come up with a very Peter Parker way out of the situation, because he's Peter Parker!" - in what amount of time? he had literal seconds to react before being mauled to death
"Or he'd get beat up and get back up!" - no he wouldn't, hence the "being mauled to death" bit
Right?!?

Slott’s version of Peter was such an immature man child he might not even have swung in to help like the MCU version did unless forced. MCU Spider-Man is more mature, and he’s still a teen! Slott’s Spider-Man was an adult. Think about that

Not all of his stories have been terrible, but he writes s terrible Peter/Spider-Man and imo can’t say jack about shit
 

phanphare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,911
Was any of Slott’s run good? The few issues I’ve read strike me as a guy in love with his own voice rather than a good characterization of Spider-Man. Am I off or am I reading the wrong stuff?
you'll get a variety of answers as Slott seems to illicit a deep seething rage within a certain portion of the spider man fandom

but the first part of his run is good stuff (big time through superior spider man as well as his stuff during the brand new day era, the alpha 3-parter doesn't exist you can't convince me it does) and then it gets shakier after superior spider man with some good points and some bad points
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,894
It was a great moment, it was a direct call back to a comedy moment from homecoming.
It was cathartic for the audience who had been waiting to see what instant kill mode even did
it was great for tension building because peter was so scared they weren't going to pull this off that he resorted to using it

It was great.
 

Switch Back 9

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,173
The only person I feel shouldn't kill (for the most part, Elseworlds, What-If etc. are all well and good) is Batman because it's so intrinsic to the character.

Goody-two-shoes Captain America kills dudes all the time and he's the paragon of virtue in the Marvel Universe.
 

ElBoxyBrown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,063
I don't think we'll see Spider-Man kill intentionally like that for future movies. He's a better fighter in Far From Home.
 
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Dalek

Dalek

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,121
Was any of Slott’s run good? The few issues I’ve read strike me as a guy in love with his own voice rather than a good characterization of Spider-Man. Am I off or am I reading the wrong stuff?
I really liked his run a lot much better than the current series by Nick Spencer.
 

Switch Back 9

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,173
What's way more annoying, personally, is when they PG-13ify murderous characters like Deadpool. Their whole thing is killing fools, don't make them all of a sudden have a moral quandary about the ethics of killing. It's stupid.
 

RedStep

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,083
Imagine thinking that fiction can not be better written, or written in a different way to suit different needs.
Imagine thinking that stabbing large CGI bugs vs "knocking them out" is the measure of well-written fiction.

"Real life" isn't that simple and there's always gonna be a scenario where you've just gotta kill.
Yeah, like when a dangerous bug is in your way and you have shoes on. Not much of a moral dilemma to be honest.
 

ArgyleReptile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,823
I expected it to show up abd I'm glad it did. Thought it was a cool moment.

Also...

Stark included "Insta-Kill" as a last resort to protect a literal child from death. The suit was designed to let the AI do the best to save his life if necessary, because Tony didn't want to live with a dead kid on his conscious.
This is how I saw its inclusion in the suit. If things got too hairy for Peter, who is still a kid, Tony would make sure he's well protected at any cost.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
5,405
Was any of Slott’s run good? The few issues I’ve read strike me as a guy in love with his own voice rather than a good characterization of Spider-Man. Am I off or am I reading the wrong stuff?
It gets worse, if that's what you're asking.

Slotts Spiderman was a caricature of his own interpretation of Spiderman. There was little to nothing about responsibility or peters good nature driving him to be Spiderman as a central holistic theme of the character, as it had been in the past, rather he focused on exaggurated bulletpoint charactisation features. The quips, being scientifically smart, all of the ancillary stuff that doesn't really matter but was there became the core focus.

I wouldn't mind personally as much if the jokes were ever funny though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,425
Atlanta GA
I actually can't think of a specific example but it's been a while since I've read Deadpool stuff. Maybe I'm thinking about his appearances on cartoons, which makes a lot more sense.

That or I've totally invented this in my head.
the only cartoon deadpool appearances I'm familiar with are the Hulk vs Wolverine movie where he's 100% deadpool, getting chopped to pieces and stuff

and his appearance in Ultimate Spider-Man which was great, because he wanted to kill people and talk about murder but couldn't because of TV censors, so he had to say "I'm going to un-alive you" and shit - definitely toned down but in a suitable manner for Deadpool's humor and the show's target audience
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,138
This is my feeling about it, too.

Always a last resort, never off the table.
It's especially funny when you view these no-kill rules and the way they're broken. In the DC TV Universe, Barry Allen has a strict no-kill rule and will go out of his way to spare even his most dangerous enemies, sometimes forcing his friends to finish them off for him because he's too chickenshit to end things when they need to end.

This all flies out the window as far as people from alternate universes are concerned - he kills villains from Earth-2 all the time and not a word of awareness is spoken as to how Barry is totally cool with murdering John-2 even when John-1 is way more dangerous.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,401
Brooklyn, NY






I find it amusing that in one universe Peter got kicked off the Avengers by Wolverine of all people for killing his rogues gallery, even if it didn't end well for him down the line. I guess Kaine will remain the Parker that kills. But Peter does give into his anger when something really sets him off and will either cripple you or kill you. But yeah, regarding Endgame, he literally had no choice, he was getting swarmed. It was kill or be killed. What a stupid thing of Slott to say.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,333
Won't someone think of the murderous hellhounds coming at Peter so their master can kill literally everyone in the universe? My personal morals would go out the window too when I'm up against someone who wants everything dead. Peter had the gauntlet in that moment, he'd be stupid not to try everything.
Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right.
 
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Dalek

Dalek

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,121
I like Slott’s run because it mixes things up. It made it a fresh story and made me really hooked to see how things were going to pan out. With Spencer it just seems like business as usual.
 
Oct 27, 2017
903
I expected it to show up abd I'm glad it did. Thought it was a cool moment.

Also...



This is how I saw its inclusion in the suit. If things got too hairy for Peter, who is still a kid, Tony would make sure he's well protected at any cost.
This is one thing that sucks about Spidey in the MCU. In so many ways he ends up as Tony's puppet. To the point where they literally rip his autonomy away from him time and time again. Sure he's young but he chose to be out there facing down gunfire and shit all on his own without anyone holding his hand. He's as capable as any Avenger.
 

Geist 6one7

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,524
MASS
Oh, come on. It's like he wanted to nitpick just so he could act like he knows how to write Spider-Man better.

Thanos's dogs are mindless monsters. Nobody's gonna lose any sleep if Peter kills some of them. He also helped Iron-Man kill Ebony Maw in Infinity War, and I don't see anyone complaining about that.
#JusticeForMaw
I always forget how much Etcetera likes to make out Tony Stark to be a villain , shine on you crazy diamonds.
Tony killed Ebony Maw twice.
 

max.rem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,555
U.S.


he's not wrong tbh

I didn't really have an issue with it in the movie but peter parker is a hardline never kill hero

supes ain't get away with it in his movie, that's for sure
I haven't seen endgame but I think Slott makes an important point. People love to put superheroes who aren't killers in situations where it's impossible for them not to kill and then say: "now what?" Those type of questions have never been interesting as far as i'm concerned.

It's also a little tiring that people nitpick a character's strict no-kill code as if all characters are supposed to share the same logical processes as it's readers.