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Writer Dan Slott talks about Spider-Man's "Instant-Kill Mode" (all MCU Spoilers)
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
That + 'Spider-Cop' and the general treatment of prisoners as a sort of zombie-esque disposable fodder enemy - with basically no more sympathetic moments to contrast - really sucked. 'Specially since I really liked a lot of other stuff about that take on the character.All the best versions of Spider-Man are pro police state. You take the good with the bad.
I think it's possible they'll interrogate some of this in the sequel at least, which is more than I can say for where cinematic Spider-Man's currently at. (I liked Homecoming quite a bit but everything since has just gotten increasingly eh.)
There was two years in between Civil War and Infinity War, in which Tony could have built his drones(presuming he built the drones specifically for Peter)
the easiest explanation is that it's one of his failsafes since The Avengers, but Sony only conceived Edith/FFH with the outline from IW and Endgame...so if someone is forced to explain it, likely it is he built it sometime after meeting Peter but before they fought Thanos.
I don't think it's a huge deal - it's made pretty clear that the Outriders are like, mindless genetically engineered soldiers. But I agree with Slott on principal. Spidey's actually pretty unique among Marvel heroes where he draws that hard line. I'd like the MCU to push that more rather than having him cut from the same cloth as the Avengers.
I think they easily could have written that scene in a way where Spidey is just barely getting by with his spider-sense and webs and other miscellaneous Iron Spider stuff. Like, they captured that really well with his trying to save everyone in Infinity War after Thanos chucks a moon at them.
I think they easily could have written that scene in a way where Spidey is just barely getting by with his spider-sense and webs and other miscellaneous Iron Spider stuff. Like, they captured that really well with his trying to save everyone in Infinity War after Thanos chucks a moon at them.
That's like a half step away from murdering an arachnid in cold blood.
Peter is basically a cousin killer. Disgusting.
Imagine thinking that fiction can not be better written, or written in a different way to suit different needs.
He's not wrong. Instakill/iron spidey suit remains the worst aspect of the new spiderman. Far from home was finally ignoring that stupid shit though so were on the right track.
That's kind of a lame cop out argument considering in the greater context of the MCU, it's already been established that Peter isn't a fan of killing and that the Outriders aren't even sentient beings.
Dude was holding the gauntlet. Ain't no way he letting anyone on team Thanos touch that. Seems perfectly valid that he would utilize instakill, especially against an enemy already shown to kill itself out of mindless bloodlust.
Man, I am so glad the movie writers don't subscribe to most of the bullshit comic writers are on.
Of course Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman kill. In fact Diana is especially good at it. The difference is they don't kill unnecessarily - they minimise casualties as much as possible.
That's why Batman was so clearly shaken by Superman just massacring all those aliens, because that's not what Superman does. He's the guiding light, not the encroaching shadow. Batman is the sort of person that would kill an army to save Earth and he'd shoulder that burden, no matter how much it hurts... but the world can't see Superman do that because Superman is better than that. In Batman's own words...
I mean these are creatures that push themselves through laser walls to please their master. Okoye expresses horror at their mindless sacrifice, and from that it's pretty clear that killing these guys? It's effectively a kindness. Like there is no stopping, slowing them down, or reasoning with them in any way.
In almost all the major comic events or alien invasion scenarios, the good guys have no issue killing aliens
Peter could have at least commented on it like, "Whoa, that was crazy and violent. I can't have this much power."
No, what I meant is that people are acting as if the events of the movie were facts instead of fiction that can be written in different ways. "There was no other option for Peter". Well, writters could change the circumstances for the character and the choices the character does.
It's like with Man of Steel. "Superman had to kill Zod, what other options he had?" Well, Superman is not a real person, but a fictional character who is acting according to a movie. And the movie script could have offered many better options for a resolution that made more sense.
the "its fiction" argument continues to be the most stupid thing people said when criticizing something.
Rigid no kill rules in the movies are dopey as hell. "Real life" isn't that simple and there's always gonna be a scenario where you've just gotta kill.
It would have been lovely if they had the time, but this was already a 3 hour movie and very much focused on the group of characters that didn't involve Peter.
Where the hell are these nitpickers every time Batman kills someone in every one of his movies? (Seriously, Batman & Robin is the only one where Batman doesn't deliberately kill someone)
The "it's fiction" argument in general is a lame cop out because it essentially boils down to "why didn't the writers just rewrite this entire chunk of the movie to cater to this one specific scenario?". The situation was as dire as it possibly could be, Peter (who's already established as not wanting to kill) decides to activate the big red button to fight off non-sentient animals in order to make sure that Thanos doesn't get the Infinity Gauntlet that is literally right there in Peters hands. There's nothing wrong with that and it's not out of character for Peter.
The "it's fiction" argument in general is a lame cop out because it essentially boils down to "why didn't the writers just rewrite this entire chunk of the movie to cater to this one specific scenario?". The situation was as dire as it possibly could be, Peter (who's already established as not wanting to kill) decides to activate the big red button to fight off non-sentient animals in order to make sure that Thanos doesn't get the Infinity Gauntlet that is literally right there in Peters hands. There's nothing wrong with that and it's not out of character for Peter.
modoversus
that tells me nothing. how is peter going to drop the infinity gauntlet to hand to hand combat dozens of swarming outriders with enough care as to not kill them?
you can't just pick and choose a single moment in this climactic battle that you want to nitpick and rewrite, it's part of an entire sequence of events that leaves Peter guarding the gauntlet from an overwhelming force of brutal killer alien dogs and not a lot of options. he can't rely on anyone else there, he can't put down the gauntlet, he has to get it to its destination immediately before he gets mauled and shredded to death within literal seconds, which would result in the entire universe being murdered
"just knock them out" isn't good writing
that tells me nothing. how is peter going to drop the infinity gauntlet to hand to hand combat dozens of swarming outriders with enough care as to not kill them?
you can't just pick and choose a single moment in this climactic battle that you want to nitpick and rewrite, it's part of an entire sequence of events that leaves Peter guarding the gauntlet from an overwhelming force of brutal killer alien dogs and not a lot of options. he can't rely on anyone else there, he can't put down the gauntlet, he has to get it to its destination immediately before he gets mauled and shredded to death within literal seconds, which would result in the entire universe being murdered
"just knock them out" isn't good writing
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Peter is also a veteran in the comics, he's been doing it for years. In the MCU he's still wet behind the ears. Hell he had trouble with fricken mysetrio. He's a push over for him in the comics now
Ed Brubaker wrote Daredevil and Captain America for a long time. The MCU Cap is basically an adaptation of his Captain America run. He left Twitter a while ago, but that's still one of the funniest mentions of Slott ever.
Yeah I get all that I just didn't know what the tweet had to do with anything other than maybe suggesting Spider-man should kill because Brubaker was willing to murder Slott so he could take ASM for himself lol
In main DC continuity these heroes are suppose to be better than that. Diana can be ruthless but most of her kills are from gods and demons.
BvS is obvious. I'm more thinking about Dark Knight when he suddenly turns into Goldberg and spears Dent off the side of a building
well you'd have to set off the nolan truthers to do that and it ain't gonna be me no sir
I think Dan Slott's ideal of the character holds some water for me, but I wish he held every character to a similar standard. His heel turn of the Black Cat was one of the worst character assassinations I've seen in comics.
It's not lame, because what I am arguing is from the point of view of creation of fiction, and what you are arguing is from the point of view the finished movie where things cannot be changed and are taken as fact.
Like, he's Spider-Man dude, he can just do Spider-Man stuff. He can like, dodge them and shoot webs and swing away with some cool CG and a well shot action sequence.
If he didn't use instant kill and somehow got away just using his wit and powers, and someone posted a thread saying "how come Spider-Man didn't use his fancy instant kill mode in Endgame" we would rightly be laughing at them because that's a "why aren't the other Avengers helping" lazy-ass criticism.
You can put Spidey in a situation where he's clearly up against the wall without him shredding dudes with his super suit. That's usually how it goes.