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Writer Dan Slott talks about Spider-Man's "Instant-Kill Mode" (all MCU Spoilers)
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
Now that I think about it, the first time was Peter Parker's plan. "Have you seen this really old movie, Aliens?"
I always found Peter wanting to kill Venom very off-putting in this comic only because it was his fault for immediately trying to ditch it. It's sentient and stated to Peter that it hurt being abandoned and left to die without a host on an unfamiliar world once it got corrupted into being Venom. It did care for Peter but Peter never tried understanding it.
Slott is ignoring the context of the scene. There's no question being raised here in this scene. Peter has the Infinity Gauntlet and is trying to get it away from Thanos' army. Thanos' army is swarming Peter and will maul him to death brutally if he doesn't escape immediately. he has to kill a few of those mindless brutes to escape and get the gauntlet to safety, less the entire universe be destroyed.
anyone trying to look at that scene as some sort of morality play is ignoring the context of the scene, the movie, and the movie that came before it.
lol seriously. are people going to start saying that scene was Peter premeditating assisted murder?
"no kill" rules are for people who can be saved. Peter refuses to give up on someone if he sees an opportunity for them to repent and do the right thing. it's why he's better than them. alien warlords planning to destroy the universe or murder trillions don't get the benefit of the doubt, it's that simple.
Does anyone here think, given the opportunity, that Peter would spare Thanos' life in this fight?
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I'd understand the argument if Peter had been fighting a member of the Black Order, even with him getting mauled to death. Killing a sentient being isn't something he should be readily cool with doing yet.
But the aliens he was fighting were essentially mindless drones.
But the aliens he was fighting were essentially mindless drones.
I have no problem with this criticism and I loved Endgame. I agree with him even though I didnt mind the moment.
I would have honestly just been okay with Peter kicking ass. If Winter Soldier can fight against Thanos army with a damn machine gun, then Peter Parker as strong as he is should be able to whip some serious ass in a montage like the rest of them. Even Rescue was kicking ass... I wont accept that Pete couldn't manage the same.
I would have honestly just been okay with Peter kicking ass. If Winter Soldier can fight against Thanos army with a damn machine gun, then Peter Parker as strong as he is should be able to whip some serious ass in a montage like the rest of them. Even Rescue was kicking ass... I wont accept that Pete couldn't manage the same.
I love Slott and most of what he did with the character.
This is 1000% what happened here.
He's not an experienced soldier like Bucky. He's a kid trying to keep a reality altering gauntlet from enemies while trying not to get mauled to death for it. The others are adults. He may be strong and gifted but he's still a kid and was in a panic.
It's almost like Bucky never got swarmed by a gang of them because he never carried the gauntlet.
nah lol it's AI driven to kill threats and targets as efficiently as possible. Stark designed the suit to keep the kid inside it alive under any circumstances.
In all fairness that's by design. Spencer wanted to go back to basics after Slott. I'm glad he did, I think Slott was getting away from what made Spider-Man, Spider-Man.
Yes. I don't think Peter has it in him to kill organic life that can think for itself.
"ACTIVATE INSTANT INCAPACITATE! But no serious injuries. And no brain damage. Also make sure they dont wake up for a small amount of time. And apologize to that ant I stepped over."
So if Peter and Tony were swapped in that final moment, he wouldn't snap the army away?
Actually curious about this because IIRC comics Peter has never been put in such a position, where it's either kill the villains now or the entire universe dies
Maybe he doesn't kill The Black Order since they were kinda victims of Thanos to start with. But they were fighting a losing battle, with that whole army on the field
The writers designed the scene. They could just as easily given him a scene where he fought off minions one at a time. He went kill mode against a swarm because they decided they wanted him to do that. It wasn't predestined.
Im okay with it because of the callback to the first MCU spiderman, but I would have preferred that scene showing Pete kicking ass. I'm not buying this "he isn't experienced enough" by that point. Dude had been to space and already fought freaking Thanos once.
That scene lands just fine with a solo Pete kicking ass and slinging bodies instead of a Tony Stark invented instakill mode.
Who knows, probably wouldn't want to catch allies in the crossfire. Spider arms stabbing is more efficient to keeping the kid alive in a crowded spot with allies all around.
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For one that's already more or less Black Panthers thing visually. Character wise it makes sense for Tony to put lethal options in Peters suit since he's an irresponsible mentor who was grooming Peter as his replacement.
It's not something a writer has to worry about cuz Peter is never strong enough to fight villains like Thanos. It'll never be his decision to decide their fate. I guess idk, cuz how villains are dealt with in movies and comics are completely different. I expect Batman to kill Darkseid in a live-action movie while comic Batman spares him for the 100th time. In most superhero movies the villain always dies when the hero has no other options left, and rightfully some people are annoyed with that. Yeah, MCU Peter would snap Thanos and his army away, but it feels weird that you can believe this version would do that. I can understand why this bothers Slott cuz the last thing you want Spider-Man to say and do is "kill".
yeah it definitely had to be Tony, but hypothetically I can see this MCU version of Peter doing the same thing and I wouldn't have a problem with it (he was okay with killing Ebony Maw to save Strange and the Time Stone so...)
Was it justified? He's comparing a hypothetical scenario in which Spider-Man can come up with a Very Peter Parker Solution to "an alien invader" versus the context of the scene, which is that Peter is a target for Thanos' mindless murderdog army because he is holding the Infinity Gauntlet, and the fate of the universe, in his hands. In this scene, he simply didn't have the time to fight them off, he needed the AI suit to do its thing so he could escape immediately with the gauntlet. otherwise he would have been torn to shreds.
he's very much ignoring the context of the movie and the final battle scene to try and say he would write a more Spider-Man-like solution to a very specific moment in which Peter is forced to resort to fatal violence in order to save the universe.
Yes. And they designed Bucky to be able to acquit himself easily because he didn't have the gauntlet. If he'd had it, guess what would've happened to him.
Learn to read, everyone here is aware the movie is fictional.
Slott should've known about Outriders. They are BASICALLY SPACE MURDER BUGS!
You're better than this Dan, c'mon.
You're better than this Dan, c'mon.
To be fair, post snap meant that anything went if it kept people safe. I doubt after that people would care what had to be done in order to survive another threat. Probably is why Dark Avengers will be a thing
Right, and the fact that the film fails to interrogate or criticise any of this is my issue.
Daredevil killed a bunch of dudes in Fear Itself despite his no kill policy. Those mecha he shot apart with a friggin giant gatling gun were piloted by humans.
Whatever they decided they wanted to happen to him, including him fighting off minions by himself. Not sure why we are meant to pretend this would have been an unrealistic outcome when it happened no less than 10 times in this very sequence.
And calm down and stop being so damn aggressive. Some of you really need to chill out. Getting legit hot under the collar because someone would have liked a movie scene to play out a different way is a waste of emotion.
Now you're just lying.
Absolutely nobody in this movie succeeded at holding off Thanos or his minions when they had the gauntlet in their hands; Iron Man, Hawkeye, Black Panther, Spider-Man, even Captain Marvel, all failed at it, because the gauntlet was all that mattered. Once any of them got it, the weight of Thanos and his army fell on them and they needed to be bailed out.
Did you even watch the movie? Or are you just into lying on Ultron's Internet?
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Does Spider-Man have a no-kill rule in the MCU? Almost nobody else in the MCU does. Certainly MCU Spidey doesn't want to kill anyone but honestly I can't blame him for deciding that auto-stabbing the slavering alien monsters trying to bite his head off doesn't count as murder.
Holy shit.
I don't get how you can think Peter has no problem with the drones when he never purposely uses them himself, and actually gives them away soon after receiving them because he doesn't think he's the person who should wield that power.
One of my favorite scenes is Tony killing the dude on the plane with an up close unibeam in Iron Man 3. I don't mind heroes killing at all but I guess the issue with DC is it was Bats who's no kill rule is a big thing and Supes who also really isn't a killer.
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The same Slott that wrote a much older Peter being okay with a little kid dying without brain surgery just so he would keep being a presence in Ottavius head? That Slott?
The very same one thinks a 0 experience Peter going against cosmic level threats in highschool age should put the life of genocidal aliens above his?
Excuse me if I don't value his criticism at all even if I agree Peter should not kill, then.
The very same one thinks a 0 experience Peter going against cosmic level threats in highschool age should put the life of genocidal aliens above his?
Excuse me if I don't value his criticism at all even if I agree Peter should not kill, then.
If he had a problem with the drones - and the rest of Stark's surveillance, assassination, and information control network - he wouldn't have given them away; he'd have destroyed them. His giving them away actually demonstrates that he had no issue with the fundamental concept—as you say, 'he doesn't think he's the person who should wield that power', but he does think it's a power someone should wield.
And again, my issue is less with the stance any individual character takes on this stuff than it is the position of the movie as a whole.
Why? Because you say so?
He doesn't need to have an issue with the concept (just not be down with using them himself), and there's absolutely no reason to believe he should given what he's just lived through.
Imagine coming face to face with Thanos and his army and not understanding why EDITH might be a necessary tool, in the right hands. The entire reason he gives them to Beck is he believes Beck is the next Iron Man, ie, the man that designed EDITH and just saved the universe.
Him waxing poetic about the drones being irresponsible would be tonally inconsistent with the character, at best.
Mmmm I don't see the problem with it, these were ravenous, feral alien beasts who would have killed him and his allies on the battlefield without hesitation.
He was literally holding the fate of their planet in his hands but more than anything, it was just a funny callback to Homecoming.
I loved it.
He was literally holding the fate of their planet in his hands but more than anything, it was just a funny callback to Homecoming.
I loved it.
The one time he's ever used it was to kill oversized roaches that can't think for themselves, lest he be killed and the universe destroyed.
He loudly objects to the idea of using it the one other time it comes up.
He's not "fine" with it.
