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zulux21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,347
How best to know if your dialogue is good or trash?

Also how best to write in a fast paced manner?
best thing to do is read your dialogue out loud and see if it sounds decent. beyond that just share with people and ask them to rip it apart and see what they say.

as for how to best write in a fast paced manner, that's easy. Turn off your editor :P

oddly enough I've been spending more and more time on my writing and getting less and less words recently. My story got to complicated so I have to keep cross referencing things lol.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,978
How best to know if your dialogue is good or trash?

Also how best to write in a fast paced manner?

Zulux21 has good advice, so follow that. Try reading it out loud to yourself, and if doesn't sound natural--assuming you're writing something close to contemporary language--you're probably not on the right track. Of course, if you're going for absolute, period authenticity, then realistic sounding, contemporary English isn't what you're going for anyway.

As far as writing in a fast-paced manner, there are a couple of ways to do it, but do it SPARINGLY. Overusing these techniques really kills their effectiveness. One way is to write in short sentences, just moving from one event to the next. Another is to write one, continuous long sentence, to simulate the way a person's thoughts may be all jumbled in the middle of something chaotic, like artillery shelling, or a surprise attack.

Both of them are trying to do the same thing, which is get a reader to read faster, building a certain rapid momentum and speed, but they do it through different means.

However, if you pick your moment to deploy them, they can be really effective in suddenly increasing the pace of a scene, especially if things have been more laidback and sedate up until that point.
 

Weiss

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Is there any way to do the "protagonists fight AI in cyberspace" without being hopelessly cliche?
 
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Weiss

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This sounds interesting. What actually ARE the cliches for this these days? Just Matrix fights?

I dunno. I feel like whenever the idea is brought up it's sort of automatically derided as past its prime.

I haven't really nailed the setting down (the original premise is that it's a world where all technology past the turn of the millennium suddenly stops working forcing everything back to a 90s-level) but it's basically a send up to the 90s VR Trend of entering a digital world inside a computer to fight a malevolent AI.
 

zulux21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,347
Most plotlines are cliche when you look at them in isolation. Execution matters more.
If you write cyberspace and the way people interact with it in an interesting way, or just make the characters compelling enough, you'll probably be fine.
yup. Even if you can't avoid the cliches that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Things become cliche for a reason. What matters is executing an interesting take on the story.

Enjoyable characters can go a long way to making a tired idea feel fresh.


edit: in other thoughts, yay only need 2.5k more words this year to reach the goal I set at the start of the year.
 
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Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,978
I dunno. I feel like whenever the idea is brought up it's sort of automatically derided as past its prime.

I haven't really nailed the setting down (the original premise is that it's a world where all technology past the turn of the millennium suddenly stops working forcing everything back to a 90s-level) but it's basically a send up to the 90s VR Trend of entering a digital world inside a computer to fight a malevolent AI.

I've actually written an SF novel that takes place in the 22nd century, but the premise is that a William Gibsonian cyberpunk world is sharing an uneasy coexistence with magic that started working a few decades prior. So I combine a lot of combat mage stuff with traditional cyberpunk hacking in cyberspace. I've found that, at least for me, what worked when it came to the hacking/virtual combat sequences was to take advantage of written fiction's biggest strength; detail. You're not working with film, TV, or comic books, so trying to emulate cool visual fights in written form is tough work. But what you CAN do is "blow up" the minutiae of the hack, the hacker, the strategies being used.

So, for example in the Matrix movie, they focused on the martial arts fights, and only occasionally focused on the furious typing of Tank as the actual hacker doing the background work. With written fiction, you can reverse that. Really get into the hacker's head, give the IDEAS and the TACTICS the spotlight, instead of concentrating on brute virtual action. I mean, I've still got a little bit of virtual combat here and there taking place in some weird settings like a cathedral made of bones, but the real heart of the virtual combat is the software, and the usage of the software that acts as the backbone.

If you really want to see cyberspace hacking/combat done well, always go back to the classics. Read William Gibson's Neuromancer, or if you want something smaller, his short story, "Burning Chrome," and see if it's still relevant for you and your ideas.
 

Weiss

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I've actually written an SF novel that takes place in the 22nd century, but the premise is that a William Gibsonian cyberpunk world is sharing an uneasy coexistence with magic that started working a few decades prior. So I combine a lot of combat mage stuff with traditional cyberpunk hacking in cyberspace. I've found that, at least for me, what worked when it came to the hacking/virtual combat sequences was to take advantage of written fiction's biggest strength; detail. You're not working with film, TV, or comic books, so trying to emulate cool visual fights in written form is tough work. But what you CAN do is "blow up" the minutiae of the hack, the hacker, the strategies being used.

So, for example in the Matrix movie, they focused on the martial arts fights, and only occasionally focused on the furious typing of Tank as the actual hacker doing the background work. With written fiction, you can reverse that. Really get into the hacker's head, give the IDEAS and the TACTICS the spotlight, instead of concentrating on brute virtual action. I mean, I've still got a little bit of virtual combat here and there taking place in some weird settings like a cathedral made of bones, but the real heart of the virtual combat is the software, and the usage of the software that acts as the backbone.

If you really want to see cyberspace hacking/combat done well, always go back to the classics. Read William Gibson's Neuromancer, or if you want something smaller, his short story, "Burning Chrome," and see if it's still relevant for you and your ideas.

I do need to re-read Neuromancer and Snow Crash at some point for a refresher on how to do a cyberspace story right.

Anyway, I was all excited to start working on this idea before I realized I didn't know what it was about except for being a send up to old VR shows. I came up with an idea where the whole setting has regressed technologically and culturally back to the 1990s but I feel like I came up with a hook before any actual worthwhile setting.
 

Shoeless

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Oct 27, 2017
6,978
I came up with an idea where the whole setting has regressed technologically and culturally back to the 1990s but I feel like I came up with a hook before any actual worthwhile setting.

Well, if I'm reading this right, and the actual physical world is literally stuck in the 90s, does this mean then that somehow, these people have access to advanced VR? I mean like William Gibson "sim-stim" level, like the Matrix, with neural simulation, or are they wearing headsets and Nintendo Power Gloves to interface, with clunky, 90s style graphics?

If the VR world is "full on VR" then one way to go with this is to make that world as advanced as possible, or combine multiple worlds and settings. Just go for broke the way Ernest Cline did in Ready Player One, and take off the limits on just how nuts people can get in the VR environment. I mean, from what you describe, there's a bit of Megazone 23/The Matrix going on in the real world, where people are trapped in the 80s/90s, which is always an interesting premise, but where you go beyond that, the how's and why's, is where you gotta' put in all the real work.
 

Weiss

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Well, if I'm reading this right, and the actual physical world is literally stuck in the 90s, does this mean then that somehow, these people have access to advanced VR? I mean like William Gibson "sim-stim" level, like the Matrix, with neural simulation, or are they wearing headsets and Nintendo Power Gloves to interface, with clunky, 90s style graphics?

If the VR world is "full on VR" then one way to go with this is to make that world as advanced as possible, or combine multiple worlds and settings. Just go for broke the way Ernest Cline did in Ready Player One, and take off the limits on just how nuts people can get in the VR environment. I mean, from what you describe, there's a bit of Megazone 23/The Matrix going on in the real world, where people are trapped in the 80s/90s, which is always an interesting premise, but where you go beyond that, the how's and why's, is where you gotta' put in all the real work.

So what happened in the world is that all technology made after the turn of the millennium spontaneously stops working, so culture has backslid into a 90s style place. There's small advancements here and there as people try to rebuild but on the whole everything has regressed into what I call "199X" where everything is this exaggerated parody of the decade.

The problem I'm having is that I don't really know how to tie in the setting with the cyberspace adventures. Like why do they need to coexist? Is there another way I can make "send up to old VR shows" without hamstringing myself?

I haven't developed the setting enough (I have this major problem as a creator where a stumbling block somehow dovetails into "this idea isn't good enough"), but I'm torn between clunker junker Headsets and the characters physically diving into the computer. The former makes more sense and is less fantastical while the latter allows for treating the digital world inside the computer like how a lot of old shows treated computers as magical portals to another world.
 

Shoeless

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Oct 27, 2017
6,978
The problem I'm having is that I don't really know how to tie in the setting with the cyberspace adventures. Like why do they need to coexist? Is there another way I can make "send up to old VR shows" without hamstringing myself?

Haven't you just kind of answered this question with your premise? I mean, it seems to me that is Mysterious Force (tm) is restricting technology to the 199X era, then that puts hard limits on your hardware advancement, but this should NOT apply to software, right?

So basically, since software is code, or really a "language for constructing another universe," that means that meaningful software advancements can still occur. They're only limited by storage capacity and processing speed, which gives you an excuse to still create giant computers that are stifled by the tech-limitations of Mysterious Force (tm), but within the confines of a virtual universe, that's a "loophole" that allows people to create--in simulation--the things that they can no longer create in the real world.

It means that if simulation still works just as well without enforced tech limitations, then simulation becomes incredibly important for R&D, as well as preserving ideas and tech that worked before the mysterious tech kicked in. So, for your world, simulation is a virtual way to access technologies that otherwise can no longer exist in the real world. And that means that individuals and corporations would still be fighting over that.
 

Weiss

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Haven't you just kind of answered this question with your premise? I mean, it seems to me that is Mysterious Force (tm) is restricting technology to the 199X era, then that puts hard limits on your hardware advancement, but this should NOT apply to software, right?

So basically, since software is code, or really a "language for constructing another universe," that means that meaningful software advancements can still occur. They're only limited by storage capacity and processing speed, which gives you an excuse to still create giant computers that are stifled by the tech-limitations of Mysterious Force (tm), but within the confines of a virtual universe, that's a "loophole" that allows people to create--in simulation--the things that they can no longer create in the real world.

It means that if simulation still works just as well without enforced tech limitations, then simulation becomes incredibly important for R&D, as well as preserving ideas and tech that worked before the mysterious tech kicked in. So, for your world, simulation is a virtual way to access technologies that otherwise can no longer exist in the real world. And that means that individuals and corporations would still be fighting over that.

I've been trying for half an hour now to write a response to this to express my gratitude for what you've written here because I deeply appreciate it. With this post you've probably single handedly saved this story from getting junked like so many others I come up with.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,978
I've been trying for half an hour now to write a response to this to express my gratitude for what you've written here because I deeply appreciate it. With this post you've probably single handedly saved this story from getting junked like so many others I come up with.

Not a problem. We're all in it together.

Plus I love ANY excuse to keep things trapped in the 80s/90s, so I fight hard to retain that premise.
 

Weiss

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Not a problem. We're all in it together.

Plus I love ANY excuse to keep things trapped in the 80s/90s, so I fight hard to retain that premise.

I wonder if the best way to take this story would be instead of a straight "we're back in the 90s" nostalgia tale I should try for that 90s futurism look of clunker junker VR headsets and hacker caves filled with crisscrossing wires and massive PC towers.
 

Shoeless

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Oct 27, 2017
6,978
I wonder if the best way to take this story would be instead of a straight "we're back in the 90s" nostalgia tale I should try for that 90s futurism look of clunker junker VR headsets and hacker caves filled with crisscrossing wires and massive PC towers.

If you haven't already, watch the anime series Lain, for hardcore clunker 90s/early 21C tech. Wires, cabling and PC towers venting steam up the wazoo.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,377
Aaaaaw this is why people should post the premises of their novels more often. Sometimes just chatting with people can be the breakthrough you need. Anyways coming in late on this buuuuuuut

How best to know if your dialogue is good or trash?

Also how best to write in a fast paced manner?

All the advice given is pretty good. I will disagree with the long sentence comment. I find long sentences are better for slowing down the pace in the moment, like if you wanted something to happen in slow motion in a movie or something. Another thing to do if you ever go somewhere for coffee, eavesdrop on someone's conversation and write down what they're saying. That's always good because it really shows you how shit people are at talking. Try to make note, if you can, their pauses, their little mannerisms that keep popping up, where they're looking when things are said and what they're doing with their hands. If you can jot all that down too, that would be really helpful.

Is there any way to do the "protagonists fight AI in cyberspace" without being hopelessly cliche?

I'm going to disagree with some other's here and say avoid cliches. It doesn't matter how good you do them, a cliche is still a cliche. Rather, you've got a good opportunity here if you become familiar with the cliche to subvert expectations. The one good thing about cliches is they let you know what your audience is expecting, thus giving you perfect chance to mess with them.

I'm not super big on cyberspace, but I'll give some thoughts on what I think the cliches are: an Ai that speaks like HAL, short and direct, dare I say robotic. The AI looking at humans as lesser bags of meat essentially needing to be corrected/parented. That's kinda all I got?
 

Weiss

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Welp now I gotta go watch Tron.


......and it was the 70s.....

TRON would probably be a good watch for me too.

I'm going to disagree with some other's here and say avoid cliches. It doesn't matter how good you do them, a cliche is still a cliche. Rather, you've got a good opportunity here if you become familiar with the cliche to subvert expectations. The one good thing about cliches is they let you know what your audience is expecting, thus giving you perfect chance to mess with them.

I'm not super big on cyberspace, but I'll give some thoughts on what I think the cliches are: an Ai that speaks like HAL, short and direct, dare I say robotic. The AI looking at humans as lesser bags of meat essentially needing to be corrected/parented. That's kinda all I got?

I kind of see the main AI as a theatrical saturday morning cartoon villain. Nothing solid yet though.

Anyway I think I'm going to scrap the whole "90stalgia" angle because I think it's holding me back without getting rid of the ideas of technological stagnation and regression.
 

zulux21

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Oct 25, 2017
20,347
Aaaaaw this is why people should post the premises of their novels more often. Sometimes just chatting with people can be the breakthrough you need. Anyways coming in late on this buuuuuuut



All the advice given is pretty good. I will disagree with the long sentence comment. I find long sentences are better for slowing down the pace in the moment, like if you wanted something to happen in slow motion in a movie or something. Another thing to do if you ever go somewhere for coffee, eavesdrop on someone's conversation and write down what they're saying. That's always good because it really shows you how shit people are at talking. Try to make note, if you can, their pauses, their little mannerisms that keep popping up, where they're looking when things are said and what they're doing with their hands. If you can jot all that down too, that would be really helpful.



I'm going to disagree with some other's here and say avoid cliches. It doesn't matter how good you do them, a cliche is still a cliche. Rather, you've got a good opportunity here if you become familiar with the cliche to subvert expectations. The one good thing about cliches is they let you know what your audience is expecting, thus giving you perfect chance to mess with them.

I'm not super big on cyberspace, but I'll give some thoughts on what I think the cliches are: an Ai that speaks like HAL, short and direct, dare I say robotic. The AI looking at humans as lesser bags of meat essentially needing to be corrected/parented. That's kinda all I got?
Personally i view subverting a cliche still using the cliche just in an interesting way.
 

Deleted member 4532

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I've been rereading and doing some touching up on my first novel's protagonist lately and I really feel like the reader will hate him. Which is fine because that's what I want, but I think maybe I should scale back a bit. I don't want to lose a reader because he's too unlikable. 🤔
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,377
I've been rereading and doing some touching up on my first novel's protagonist lately and I really feel like the reader will hate him. Which is fine because that's what I want, but I think maybe I should scale back a bit. I don't want to lose a reader because he's too unlikable. 🤔

I say go hard in the extreme. Have him eat a puppy in front of a school bus filled with little orphans. Make him so hateablr the reader keeps going cause they need to see him get his
 

b-dubs

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I've been rereading and doing some touching up on my first novel's protagonist lately and I really feel like the reader will hate him. Which is fine because that's what I want, but I think maybe I should scale back a bit. I don't want to lose a reader because he's too unlikable. 🤔
He doesn't really need to be likable, you might want to go for captivating instead. Someone you can't ignore or look away from. You want them to want to see what happens to this guy, wonder if he gets what's coming to him or not. Just a glorious bastard. Have him chew on the scenery and just be amazingly horrible. Lean into that shit.
 

Deleted member 4532

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I say go hard in the extreme. Have him eat a puppy in front of a school bus filled with little orphans. Make him so hateablr the reader keeps going cause they need to see him get his
He doesn't really need to be likable, you might want to go for captivating instead. Someone you can't ignore or look away from. You want them to want to see what happens to this guy, wonder if he gets what's coming to him or not. Just a glorious bastard. Have him chew on the scenery and just be amazingly horrible. Lean into that shit.
Yeah, I think I'll eventually go down this route. I was thinking about the reason why I love tv shows like Breaking Bad and Bojack Horseman is because the protagonist are a problem within their own stories. I think I was just overthinking things when I should have trusted the vision I wrote in the first place.
 

b-dubs

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Yeah, I think I'll eventually go down this route. I was thinking about the reason why I love tv shows like Breaking Bad and Bojack Horseman is because the protagonist are a problem within their own stories. I think I was just overthinking things when I should have trusted the vision I wrote in the first place.
If you don't ever question what you're doing you might miss something obvious. Heck, it might be worth it to see what a scaled back version would look like. There may well be something in there you might want to keep.
 

Deleted member 4532

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If you don't ever question what you're doing you might miss something obvious. Heck, it might be worth it to see what a scaled back version would look like. There may well be something in there you might want to keep.
Here's a super short summary of what I am going for: the protagonist is a college dropout returning to live with his older brother, who he has a rocky relationship with. At one point he steals some money from his brother when he volunteered to help clean his house (since he's not bothering to look for a job). At another point, his childhood friend has been making new friends and has been getting into the music business. The protagonist gets a little jealous about his progress and pays someone else to sabotage his friend's progress by hurting one of the new friends and making sure his music studio is destroyed.

That's one scene I've written and I seriously considered it to be too much. But now I want to keep rolling with it.
 

Shoeless

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Oct 27, 2017
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That's one scene I've written and I seriously considered it to be too much. But now I want to keep rolling with it.

As long as you keep an unlikeable character interesting, your reader will go with you. If he's unlikeable but dull, you're going to lose people. So just make sure there's something about him that engages readers, whether that's wit, humor, a flair for the dramatic, or something else. And make sure to vary the unlikeable activities as well. Too much of anything, always in the same way, shape or form, will blunt itself.
 

b-dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
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Here's a super short summary of what I am going for: the protagonist is a college dropout returning to live with his older brother, who he has a rocky relationship with. At one point he steals some money from his brother when he volunteered to help clean his house (since he's not bothering to look for a job). At another point, his childhood friend has been making new friends and has been getting into the music business. The protagonist gets a little jealous about his progress and pays someone else to sabotage his friend's progress by hurting one of the new friends and making sure his music studio is destroyed.

That's one scene I've written and I seriously considered it to be too much. But now I want to keep rolling with it.
I'd say keep away from edgy and go with petty if you're too worried. It's easier to go too edgy than it is too petty, in my experience anyway.

And yeah, as long as the character is interesting it'll be fine.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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All this writing talk makes me wish I was writing instead of building a desk.

Here's a super short summary of what I am going for: the protagonist is a college dropout returning to live with his older brother, who he has a rocky relationship with. At one point he steals some money from his brother when he volunteered to help clean his house (since he's not bothering to look for a job). At another point, his childhood friend has been making new friends and has been getting into the music business. The protagonist gets a little jealous about his progress and pays someone else to sabotage his friend's progress by hurting one of the new friends and making sure his music studio is destroyed.

That's one scene I've written and I seriously considered it to be too much. But now I want to keep rolling with it.

That doesn't sound too much to me. Also that sounds neat, id read it. I would try and make him sympathetic by feeling equally shitty about his actions.
 

Weiss

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So I have a confession, one that I finally have the worlds to articulate.

I think I'm afraid to start writing.

I'm 26 years old now, and like, I'm afraid of the commitment of putting all this time into something where I don't know if it's any good, and I send it out and everyone hates it. I've done little short stories and one 15-pager, but that's really it. Nothing like writing a whole novel. I'm terrified of even trying.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,438
So I have a confession, one that I finally have the worlds to articulate.

I think I'm afraid to start writing.

I'm 26 years old now, and like, I'm afraid of the commitment of putting all this time into something where I don't know if it's any good, and I send it out and everyone hates it. I've done little short stories and one 15-pager, but that's really it. Nothing like writing a whole novel. I'm terrified of even trying.
Try to think of it in terms of smaller chunks (chapters, or even pages) instead of a book, which is an intimidating amount of work for most people, even if you've written one before.
 

Deleted member 4532

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So I have a confession, one that I finally have the worlds to articulate.

I think I'm afraid to start writing.

I'm 26 years old now, and like, I'm afraid of the commitment of putting all this time into something where I don't know if it's any good, and I send it out and everyone hates it. I've done little short stories and one 15-pager, but that's really it. Nothing like writing a whole novel. I'm terrified of even trying.
I was like you earlier this year. Take a deep breath and relax. Don't think about everything all at once and just focus on the idea you do have. Know that it will take time to finish and that you're not going to be a master class writer straight out the gate. Read some books and write everyday. Don't stress out on it being hated and just make the best product it can be in your eyes.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,978
So I have a confession, one that I finally have the worlds to articulate.

I think I'm afraid to start writing.

I'm 26 years old now, and like, I'm afraid of the commitment of putting all this time into something where I don't know if it's any good, and I send it out and everyone hates it. I've done little short stories and one 15-pager, but that's really it. Nothing like writing a whole novel. I'm terrified of even trying.

There's really no easy way to get into it, unless you are blessed with the Dunning-Kruger effect, in which case, you think everything is easy, and you're a genius producing great work, when in fact you're not that bright, and what you are producing is terrible, but you are too arrogant and stupid to realize it. The fact that you are already worried about whether what you produce is good or not is already a good sign that you're not afflicted with the Dunning-Kruger effect.

The only way you can really ease yourself into it is embrace that fact that this is a learning process, just like taking up an instrument, learning to dance, or drawing/painting for the first time. DO NOT EXPECT GENIUS ON YOUR FIRST ATTEMPTS. When you're just starting out, you're going to make mistakes, but if you keep at it long enough, you'll learn to recognize what works and what doesn't for you. Also, GET BETA READERS AND BE A BETA READER YOURSELF. Nothing teaches you how to write faster than having people you trust show you how to improve your work and, conversely, when you're going through the work of someone else and seeing ways to make it better. Critiquing and being critiqued are both serious stat-boosts in terms of just how quickly you gain Writer XP, compared to just going it alone.

It's also important to figure out what your goal is for writing as you get into it. You'll need to do very different things if you're writing fan-fiction just for fun on Wattpad, versus writing for self-publication, versus writing to get represented by a literary agent, going on submission and getting a book deal with an acquiring editor for old-fashioned, big business trade publication.

As long as you go into this understanding that it's a long game, and you don't expect to be a brilliant 0.5% success story right out of the gates, you'll be fine. It took me years to get to the point where an agent made an offer, and started submitting me to publishers. When it comes to writing novels, aside from massive talent, and the right timing for the marketplace, there are no shortcuts. You tell good stories one word at a time, for hundreds of thousands of words.
 

Xagarath

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Oct 28, 2017
3,140
North-East England
So I have a confession, one that I finally have the worlds to articulate.

I think I'm afraid to start writing.

I'm 26 years old now, and like, I'm afraid of the commitment of putting all this time into something where I don't know if it's any good, and I send it out and everyone hates it. I've done little short stories and one 15-pager, but that's really it. Nothing like writing a whole novel. I'm terrified of even trying.
The best piece of advice I ever received is to accept that the first novel you write actually won't be any good, and that every writer needs to produce at least one bad novel before they can write a good one.
Finish your first book, but don't put yourself under the pressure of sending it out as soon as you're done. Sit on it for a few months. If you do show it to anyone, pick one or two friends or family members you can trust to give honest feedback. Then go through it again with a fresh pair of eyes.
It's like any other creative discipline - painting, playing an instrument, and so on. Putting in the practice and building up the skills to finish a piece of work are steps you have to go through.
 

zulux21

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Oct 25, 2017
20,347
So I have a confession, one that I finally have the worlds to articulate.

I think I'm afraid to start writing.

I'm 26 years old now, and like, I'm afraid of the commitment of putting all this time into something where I don't know if it's any good, and I send it out and everyone hates it. I've done little short stories and one 15-pager, but that's really it. Nothing like writing a whole novel. I'm terrified of even trying.
Try focusing on creating something you want to read instead of worrying about if anyone wants to read it?
It's cool if others want to read something, but usually the easiest way to write a book is to 1. Write something you want to tell without worrying if others will like it and 2. understand that it will likely be a mess after your first attempt. Editing something a billion times is really how you create a good book.

also, you are 26, you are still just a kid in the grand scheme of things, don't worry about it to much. A single novel if you focus on it really won't take that long to do. if you are aiming for 100k words that's just 274 words per day to finish it in a year. it's not really that much of a commitment at that age :P

I know it might sound like I'm being condescending but I'm mostly trying to point out it's not really that big of a deal once you get going. You will waste far more time worrying about if it is a waste of time then you ever will actually writing stuff.

worrying gets you nothing, actually writing gets you more experience, allows you to create something, and even if it's garbage gives you an idea of what you should change later, or helps you quit without worrying if you tried if you could have done something.
 

zulux21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,347
MWA HA HA HA HA finally hit my yearly goal. Which was an average of 1k words per day or 365k words in the year. Strictly on my main project.

so I have 365k words on that plus the 56k word nano I did last month to show for the year.

now to decide if I'm going to add more to my main project with the last few days of the year, or work on editing my nano project some.
 
Oct 26, 2017
876
I do need to re-read Neuromancer and Snow Crash at some point for a refresher on how to do a cyberspace story right.

Anyway, I was all excited to start working on this idea before I realized I didn't know what it was about except for being a send up to old VR shows. I came up with an idea where the whole setting has regressed technologically and culturally back to the 1990s but I feel like I came up with a hook before any actual worthwhile setting.
It's likely also worth reading Tad Williams' Otherland series, as it also involves cyberwar.
 

Deleted member 4532

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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"Thomas didn't tell you the entire story. I told the man I was rooming with that I'd pay him back and he knows I'm good for it. In fact, once casting begins for Black Panther 2, I'll be first in line for a role… I'll use that acting money to pay him and get the hell out of here…"
I'm not gonna be sued for using the name, right? lmao
 

b-dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,721
I'm not gonna be sued for using the name, right? lmao
I want to say that should fall under fair use. Now if you appropriate parts of the plot to the movie into your own work that's where you'll definitely wind up in trouble. But just mentioning it should be ok.

That said, don't quote me because I'm not a lawyer and only know the vagaries of this specific law due to having to deal with it at work from time to time.
 

Weiss

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Oct 25, 2017
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That sci-fi book I mentioned earlier is starting to get wacky lol. Like I keep coming up with completely different plotlines.

Should you come up with the plot or world first?
 

Timu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,540
2019 is here, and this year marks a comeback for a series that made me win Nano for the 1st time back in 2013 with it's sequel in 2014: Copper. That's right, 5 years later he's getting a true sequel called Copper's Resurrection to finish off this trilogy, and man will it be a brutal novel to end this series. Using my knowledge and experience I had for Nano for nearly a decade, plus the passion for writing this, I am 100% sure this will be the best novel I will do for Nano and the perfect way to end the 2010s.

With an outline that's so advance that it will make sure that everything goes to plan and months of preparation including re-reading and re-editing my previous Copper novels to enhance the outcome for Copper's Resurrection, this is looking great so far. Funny enough I already have all the chapters planned for Resurrection weeks in advance so I just need to work on what happens in them to know what to write for Nano 2019.

Basically, I'm trying to do my best for this one!
 

b-dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,721
That sci-fi book I mentioned earlier is starting to get wacky lol. Like I keep coming up with completely different plotlines.

Should you come up with the plot or world first?
Depends on the writer. Things can change a lot as you write.
 

zulux21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,347
That sci-fi book I mentioned earlier is starting to get wacky lol. Like I keep coming up with completely different plotlines.

Should you come up with the plot or world first?
Ideally both I think?
I tend to not do a ton of world building unless I need it, but at the same time, while plotting out stuff it's very common for me to need to do a lot of world building. Basically I get a very general plot idea, work on the city/people I know I will need, and then go and fill in the rest as I go.

I'm constantly changing plot lines, though in general I try to design things so any major scene could go multiple ways so I don't typically have to make to many changes to fit a completely different plot line, as the new one is still mostly logical for what I've set up. More often it just involves cutting some stuff, or scenes taking longer than expected.

I took months plotting one scene to get it just the way I wanted (and well to actually get to the scene as I was planning it well in advance) and had to throw out 90% of what I planned because I forgot to take my main characters into account and how one of them wouldn't go along with what was planned at all lol.