Found this at Reddit: https://lithub.com/i-talked-to-150-writers-and-heres-the-best-advice-they-had/
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WritersEra |OT| Publish before you die, writing writer writes
- Thread starter weemadarthur
- Start date
- OT
Random question:
Helping verbs. I tend to notice when I crutch on them and have entire paragraphs with "he was going" kind of structure, and I then try to rewrite some of them so it doesn't all read the same. I'm rereading Harry Potter and Rowling LOVES helping verbs. LIke 80% of these books are written with helping verb sentences. I'ts strange because most could be rewritten to be more ACTIVE, and I'm not sure why they aren't.
Which leads me to this: Does it really matter or am I at the point of editing where literally everything causes me to get an ulcer? Because that does happen from time to time :P
Helping verbs. I tend to notice when I crutch on them and have entire paragraphs with "he was going" kind of structure, and I then try to rewrite some of them so it doesn't all read the same. I'm rereading Harry Potter and Rowling LOVES helping verbs. LIke 80% of these books are written with helping verb sentences. I'ts strange because most could be rewritten to be more ACTIVE, and I'm not sure why they aren't.
Which leads me to this: Does it really matter or am I at the point of editing where literally everything causes me to get an ulcer? Because that does happen from time to time :P
It's not really futile if the occurrence of helping verbs is bugging the hell out of you, and you know you're not going to be proud of yourself if you leave them in. Different writers--and readers--will have different tolerance levels for these things. When my novel went under the knife for edits, I was surprised at the little things I thought weren't a big deal that the editor advised changes for, but was also surprised that some things I thought for sure I'd get "dinged" for and asked to change, the editor was like, "No! That's fine!"
Get others to read it. If you're the only one that's noticing how frequently that writing tic occurs, it might just be you being overly aware of it. On the other hand, if lots of readers are pointing out something you're painfully aware of, then you're probably doing the right thing, trimming them out. But really, when it comes to your voice/style, don't just rely only on your opinion. You'd be surprised at the stuff you think is weak that is absolutely not an issue for readers, and vice versa.
Get others to read it. If you're the only one that's noticing how frequently that writing tic occurs, it might just be you being overly aware of it. On the other hand, if lots of readers are pointing out something you're painfully aware of, then you're probably doing the right thing, trimming them out. But really, when it comes to your voice/style, don't just rely only on your opinion. You'd be surprised at the stuff you think is weak that is absolutely not an issue for readers, and vice versa.
My readers generally don't know what the fuck I'm going on about when I complain about things like this :P
That... doesn't actually sound like too much of a problem! I mean, you're writing for readers, and not all of them are going to be other writers nit-picking about grammatical choices and passive versus active voice, or inconsistencies in the depth/closeness of your POV. If you want to the more informed opinions, then absolutely go out and find beta readers that are also writers. But it's also important to have readers that just read for the pleasure of it. Because that's going to be the majority of people that choose to spend time with your story.
I've been personally leaning on the "Write something you'd read" angle for prose lately. So if it's bothering you then fix it in a way where you'd be happy reading it.
So right now I'm writing a novel that deliberately has the same structure as Dark Souls/Bloodborne (new area in every chapter and always a boss fight at the end of a chapter) for a challenge, would it just make 0 sense to a reader who dont play videogames/Dark Souls?
Hard to say. But given that there are novels with actual stat sheets in the back for the characters, I don't think it matters. Not every book needs to be for everyone, and if you're aiming at gamers, that's a valid market.
Theres a book with a stat sheet?!?!?! I hope its not an Isekai...
The thing is that wouldn't the publishers not know it too?
Yeah. The genre is called litrpg
LitRPG - Wikipedia
The wiki page on it is kind of bare though :\
If you're talking trying to get a publisher or agent, you'd have to find one that knows your market. To do that, look up other books in the genre and go from there. i personally don't like the idea of putting actual stats in books, but I don't like a lot of things so that doesn't mean much. But if you want to write a book with a video-game like structure, I don't see the world at large having much of a problem with that. You're going to have to fit it into some kind of three act plot structure though, which might be difficult if each area ends on its own climax.
The story--characters, world, plot--is going to come first. The rest is more of a window dressing, honestly.
About the genre of the story....Yeah. The genre is called litrpg
LitRPG - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The wiki page on it is kind of bare though :\
If you're talking trying to get a publisher or agent, you'd have to find one that knows your market. To do that, look up other books in the genre and go from there. i personally don't like the idea of putting actual stats in books, but I don't like a lot of things so that doesn't mean much. But if you want to write a book with a video-game like structure, I don't see the world at large having much of a problem with that. You're going to have to fit it into some kind of three act plot structure though, which might be difficult if each area ends on its own climax.
The story--characters, world, plot--is going to come first. The rest is more of a window dressing, honestly.
The tone is supposed to be reminiscent of something like Winnie-the-Pooh the novel, but then later on it has a Lovercraftian twist, so where does the genre fall
I'm an advocate for writing your book first and then worrying about how to market it later. Books written to genre often come across a bit formulaic.
And I don't think you need to even aim for a Dark-Souls-playing audience as long as your book's internally consistent or explains itself properly.
Back from my month long self-ban and I am proud to say I am done with my first draft!
However, as I was writing the ending, I felt my story would be better as a graphic novel so that's what I'll work towards from now on.
However, as I was writing the ending, I felt my story would be better as a graphic novel so that's what I'll work towards from now on.
As long as the structure makes sense to readers, it doesn't really matter where you pulled it from. There are plenty of writers that treat each chapter as an "episode" that ends with some kind of climax, so, done properly, different eras and a boss fight doesn't sound too bizarre, provided that you've written it in a way that doesn't confuse readers. If, on the other hand, you're relying on readers to understand the way the story is supposed to go based on an understanding of Soulsborne games, then that's a bit more problematic.
The tone of the novel doesn't really define the genre so much as the setting. Modern settings would be considered urban fantasies, while Tolkien-esque settings would be considered High Fantasies or secondary fantasies, and settings where a character from our world hops over to a fantastical world are called portal fantasies. Within these sub-genres you can have dark stories, funny stories, more literary stories, or action oriented stories, but it's really your back drop, not your mood that define where on the bookshelf the novel will go. Since I don't know where your story takes place, I'm not sure what sub-genre it would be.
On the other hand, things get a bit weird science fiction, where it's more the topic that defines the sub-genre than the setting. If you're doing FTL starships with empires going to war with each other, that would be space opera. If you're tackling corporate espionage, hacking and bio-modification in a localized, earth-centric story, that would be cyberpunk. If you're dealing specifically with the global consequences of environmental abuse, that would be "Cli-Fi" or climate fiction.
Just keep in mind that you HAVE to write the story that matters to you, but be willing to take it on the chin if certain topics are less commercial at certain times than others. For example, urban fantasy used to be a SUPER HOT market, but it's cooled off now, and both agents and editors are less aggressive about snapping up those kinds of stories. On the other hand, if you're doing Cli-Fi right now, that's one that everybody is looking at.
Since my novel is about a cartoon dog who has to go into a modern city that becomes more and more unrealistic the deeper he goes to find his missing owner and friends (things like NPCs teleporting from 1 place to another without any logical explanation, movie characters coming to life IRL, buildings existing only when out of view)
literally everything in the story is just inside the owner's mind
Isn't that called an Isekai :p?
Yeah, since it's a modern-day setting, they might put in the urban fantasy section if they have one. Though it's probably guaranteed to so into the science fiction/fantasy shelves at the very least.
Not as productive as I would have liked to be creatively, but work has been keeping me busy, so at least I'm getting paid.
Vacations so I'm using this time to focus more in my book.
Blissfully on a break from big editing and writing. Going to try and shoot out a short story for the CWC this week though.
I've also had a rough time. I'm in the process of buying a new car and it has been a struggle. On top of that, I fucked up at work a week ago so now I'm kinda being put on a lot of extra pressure to get things done quickly. All in all, not a lot of time to start my Nano :(
I've been hot... so very hot....
and I accept you :)
beyond that things have been going decently. haven't been struggling to get my words so far this month.
You outliners have all my respect. That kind of thing is totally beyond me.
From what I recall, what Timu calls an outline would be a rough draft for many other people :P
I will plan an outline like the next 1k words or so (aka what I write each day lol)
beyond that I just have some overarching story beats that I have outlined so I can naturally progress them over time.
your outline for the last nano was like 15-20k words wasn't it :P?
About 80% of the way through my contracted project and I've returned to working on my children's book.
So not bad.
Finally got to do some writing and holy shit did I need to put some words onto paper. i feel so much better.
Anyways, in terms of projects, I'm going to start a fantasy novel for Nano but I'm also thinking of maybe planning out a collection of short stories to self-publish seeing as I have tons of stuff I really liked from doing years of CWCs and I've kind of come to the realization I like people reading my stuff a lot more than actually making money off it. I also might use it as a chance to experiment with twitch editing streams since those were a thing I've kinda always wanted to try.
Anyways, in terms of projects, I'm going to start a fantasy novel for Nano but I'm also thinking of maybe planning out a collection of short stories to self-publish seeing as I have tons of stuff I really liked from doing years of CWCs and I've kind of come to the realization I like people reading my stuff a lot more than actually making money off it. I also might use it as a chance to experiment with twitch editing streams since those were a thing I've kinda always wanted to try.
It's pretty much a requirement for me!
Lol. But yeah it's coming along very nicely, and the middle may be the toughest part, but it's still pretty much doable and it's smooth sailing from there once I get to the later chapters.
Actually neither! Can't really think of any real inspiration other than a silent hill level and a weird French playwright but the book has transformed in my head to a much lighter adventure time than the stuff that planted the seeds.
Hope things get better for you.
Probably my most productive week of the year writing-wise. Already 25% of the way to my Camp NaNo goal and I wrote 2k words yesterday,. Been feeling really good this week.
I'm outlining the book I'm working on now instead of just winging it and it's honestly a game changer.
I started a serialized epic fantasy series on Patreon. It's still under the erotica pen name, but this one won't have any explicit scenes. I made the first seven chapters available free, and patrons can receive early releases of the other chapters. I'm not used to writing linearly, though, so it's been an adjustment. I usually skip around, writing important scenes, and then circle back multiple times to fill in the blanks, so it's interesting to force myself to write the scenes in order.
that's likely going to be my path for my main project when I'm ready to publish it.
As I highly doubt anyone is actually going to want my main project given the length lol.
Heya! Just saw a neat thing on Twitter that people might be interested in for their books. There was a #writingcommunity discussion on promoting your stuff, and one for book trailers came up. This person makes trailers and is having a 50% off express trailers until July 30:
The custom ones are quite pricey, but with the discount the express ones are totally in the treat range. Be kind of fun/maybe some incentive for finishing. If any other good/affordable trailer-makers come up, I'll add them. Might be a good resource for the OP, too.
The custom ones are quite pricey, but with the discount the express ones are totally in the treat range. Be kind of fun/maybe some incentive for finishing. If any other good/affordable trailer-makers come up, I'll add them. Might be a good resource for the OP, too.
I've wondered on and off what the numbers are like for book trailers and how effective they are. I don't have any skin in this game, I'm just genuinely curious whether it's a good form of marketing or not. My sister-in-law was doing indie books a few years ago and she occasionally made some of these herself. And I know my publisher does this for some of their books. Where do book trailers usually go? Do people put them on YouTube, or plaster them all over Twitter and Instagram and Facebook, or what?
I've usually seen them on youtube, but only a few times in my life. While i have no idea how well they do, I usually sit through the whole ad so it must be doing something right.
OP
OP
I'm fine with putting things in the OP but is that just a short term thing?
....yes, I am one of those weirdos who still can't see twitter embeds on this site....
....yes, I am one of those weirdos who still can't see twitter embeds on this site....
I think book trailers are like most marketing things in publishing: if you have a lot of hype behind your book, or you're a big front list title, they might do something for you, but otherwise it's a total crapshoot. I wish there was a magic bullet for marketing. :/
That's really interesting, I've always wondered how effective Patreon would be for writers. Good luck.
Thanks! Nineteen patrons so far, but I'm hoping it's the kind of thing that will keep growing gradually.
I am curious to follow your progress as it's what I'm hoping eventually.
release at as a serial on patreon and then after I finish a book do another round of editing and then kickstart a physical version of the book (would be the dream)
I am at Spikecon/NASFIC this week and have had the chance to listen/talk to many fantastic writers who I love. Really inspired me to get moving on writing again.
Also, Brandon Sanderson is such a sucking nice human being. Really takes time with the fans even when at signings.
Also, Brandon Sanderson is such a sucking nice human being. Really takes time with the fans even when at signings.
This doesn't surprise me given he is a teacher and has allowed an in depth series of lectures to remain online for free (which he seems pretty chill in in general)
I've been posting the chapters for free on a couple websites. Patrons get early access to new chapters.
I know they already answered this but to be clear... Patrons WILL NOT find you unless you are advertising other places. Heck i can't find patrons i want to find on the patreon site lol.
Part of my grand plan if i can't find a publisher is writing fanfiction to things similar to my story to try to lure people to my patreon. But alas that is still likely ten years away lol
This is the thing that gives me pause on trying it. I'm just way too bashful to ever market myself.
Patreon is just an extension of social media, one where you get your following to give you money to keep producing things.
I know it can suck trying to get out there and market yourself, but really if you want to succeed with some sort of crowd funding you have to.
It would be the same if you self published in general though. There are millions of other books out there, you can't just release one and hope people notice you. You have to market it and get people to have eyes on it and maybe buy it. And after that they might tell their friends if they liked it and you might build a following but in general it's market market market to try to get more and more eyes on it.
Yeah, this is pretty much the reason I went with trade publishing. I can't market to save my life, I'm not an artist, so I wouldn't trust myself to create a compelling cover, and I don't have it in me to be a decent copy/line editor. Nor do I have the money to pay reliable professionals to do all that, to make sure my book stands above the huge horde of people that are trying to self-publish with the minimum expenditure of budget. The people I know who've made a really good go at self-publishing have access to funds I don't, and they've invested in pro editing, pro-cover art, pro-marketing/publicists to get their work to noticed and promoted. They committed to making and building their books and their brand as pretty much a fulltime job.
I can't afford that, so the agent/publisher route was really my only viable option.
I would prefer the trade publishing but my only real hopes of that is with one of my side projects instead of my main one lol.
that being said my main side project is designed to be a comic but whether that happens will be a different story, thus I'm also writing it as a proper kids novel as well.
On the flip side I don't think I'm to bad at marketing (whether I have the motivation to do it long term is another story), and I might actually have a decent editor in me (though I need to continue to get better at writing rules and grammar and what not.) I don't have the money to spend on a proper editor or high end art though.
Either way I have a long way to go before I'm ready to publish anything so it's something future me can worry about.
I'd be curious too as they seem to be a new thing to me. I'm sure they've been around for ages, but only recently did I see one online. When they're done well, I don't think they can be anything BUT an asset. People like visuals, and if a moving synopsis of your book is paired to nice images and music, it's that much more exciting to general audiences. I've recently seen an uptick in book commercials on TV too. As for where you put them, I've seen them mostly on Twitter and FB pages, but I'd imagine any media or group where you're trying to introduce your book or get eyes is a good thing.
The sale is a short term thing, but that person does book trailers as a job, so their site might be a good add to a Marketing section for what could be done with your book.
Here's the main site: http://www.electrafox.com/
I've been chatting with her and she's going to add more themed trailers to the express option (like horror).
I agree that everything's pretty much a crapshoot, but there's no denying that eye-catching presentation nets you more eyes than just slapping on a Paint cover and dropping it on Amazon. And at $50 (with the coupon), I think that's a pretty good deal for a bit of solid, professional Marketing. <--I suggested to her to make these kinds of things birthday/Christmas gift-oriented as well so if the price point is still too high or you're not entirely sold, it's an idea for your family/friends to get you as a gift. At any rate, it can't hurt, and I think it'd be pretty neat to see a mini-trailer for your book.
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