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Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
I'm one of those writers that's just too old school or disorganized for Scrivner. I've tried using it a couple of times, and end up using it EXACTLY like MS Word, where, aside from the extensive use of the delete key, it's just a glorified typewriter. The outlining, chapter break, character profile stuff all goes unused, Every time I try to mess around with those features, I get nowhere. I'm just one of those writers that just sits down and writes, I guess. I've always done my first drafts from first page, first chapter, to last chapter, last page, so I've never had a situation where I needed to shuffle bits of plot around or fill in intermediary chapters. It's good to see something robust for people that need or what that kind organizational power in their writing software, but it's just not for me.
I tend to start with a kernel of an idea and then work from there. So I write some initial plot and scene outlines and constantly add notes. Normally completely changing the direction a few times. I often make these decisions in the shower or in bed so write them in a note on my phone and then send them over until the basic premise feels 'right'. It's not a very organic process for me to be honest, so Scrivener certainly helps with that. I envy you, though!
 
Oct 26, 2017
876
I bought Scrivener went it was on sale a couple years ago. There's a lot of depth to it that I just don't use. In fact, the depth actually makes it more difficult to use for someone who writes like I do. I basically start at page 1 and go through page n. I don't write scenes and then fit them together, mostly because my characters tend to not give a shit what I think they ought to be doing by the time I get to the scene in question. So when I was working on the sequel to my first book, using Scrivener, I was basically using it as a word processor. When I had to share chapters with others in my creative writing group, I found there were challenges with exactly how to compile just the stuff I wanted to share into the format they needed. Things would not compile nicely for Word, for instance. Or the ebook format would trail off the side of the page. It was frustrating.

So, when I started the novella per month challenge, I did a little digging and found that Google Docs is your basic word processor, with a "Download as..." function that allows for ebook or .docx and has simply made getting things into Kindle format and paperback format (mostly) a breeze.

I doubt I'll go back to Scrivener.
 

Cyan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
192
What do you guys think of changing focus characters entirely during a chapter?

I'm writing a story and it's divided into 16 short chapters per part, but it's 13 parts long, meaning I'm going to end up with a tonne of chapters. Do you think I should be combining some of these and just completely switch focus (ensemble cast) during the chapter?
It's fine. Just make it very clear that's what's happening to avoid confusion. Have a scene break, and ideally the new POV character's name should be in the first sentence or even just be the first word. If there's another character in the new scene who isn't the POV character, don't use their name right away.

Also be aware that quick scene breaks and POV changes will alter the feel and pacing. Generally it makes things feel faster-paced.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,404
The English Wilderness
Scrivener has been a godsend for me. It means I don't need to have dozens of documents open at once, for a start. It's also much better for adding notes and has made keeping track of continuity a breeze.

My general work flow now is to write a draft in Scrivener, print it out to read through, then write the second draft (again in Scrivener), compile that to an ePub for the second read through, then back to Scrivener for the revision, before exporting to Word for the final edit (then exporting the finished piece back to Scrivener, when I can add continuity notes etc).

...this is why it takes me forty hours to write a single 5k chapter XD
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,404
The English Wilderness
Holy crap. You do so much more work than I do. I think you're probably much more talented than I am, I've got serious case of imposter syndrome just reading all that.

I don't think it's so much to do with talent as it is immense amounts of rewriting and revising.

There's an old - possibly apocryphal - story about a friend of James Joyce visiting him one evening to find him in despair, because he'd only written seven words that day. "But that's good for you!" said the friend. "Yes," replied Joyce, "but I have no idea what order to put them in!"
 

zulux21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,343
What exactly does Scrivener do, and what makes it advantageous for struggling writers like myself?
the main use it has... well will have when I stop being lazy for me
is that I can set up a database of information related to my story.
I already have hundreds of files of notes about my story, which in order to get that information right now I have to locate it and open it.
if I am using scrivener I can set it up in tabs on the side, and easily organize it and click to it. It takes more initial set up, but in the long run will be much better.
 

SOLDIER

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,339
the main use it has... well will have when I stop being lazy for me
is that I can set up a database of information related to my story.
I already have hundreds of files of notes about my story, which in order to get that information right now I have to locate it and open it.
if I am using scrivener I can set it up in tabs on the side, and easily organize it and click to it. It takes more initial set up, but in the long run will be much better.

That sounds awesome.

I'll be keeping an eye on that program, hopefully I can mess with it soon.
 

kaytee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
440
USA
If they improved the Compile feature, I might actually give up $25 for it... I can't ever seem to get the final document to come out the way I need. I have to think on it, though, because I'm happy with Scrivener as is.
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
If they improved the Compile feature, I might actually give up $25 for it... I can't ever seem to get the final document to come out the way I need. I have to think on it, though, because I'm happy with Scrivener as is.
They said they've rebuilt compile from the ground up. Website is down right now as they're updating that along with the launch of Scrivener 3. So, available at some point today.
 

Namiks

Permanently banned for usage of an alt-account.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
274
If you have a short story published online, link it to me in a reply.

I'm interested in reading things you've all created.
 

Fuu

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
Upgraded it and I'm loving the new look. The new outliner views are great too.

Just wish there was some sort of separate tutorial for those of us coming from 2 so I didn't miss any of the new features. Ah well, I might as well re-do the interactive tutorial, it's been a while and it won't take that long.
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
Upgraded it and I'm loving the new look. The new outliner views are great too.

Just wish there was some sort of separate tutorial for those of us coming from 2 so I didn't miss any of the new features. Ah well, I might as well re-do the interactive tutorial, it's been a while and it won't take that long.
Same. It's hard seeing what's new when coming from the old version. Also, is it just me, but if you hover over the icon in your dock does it say Scrivener 2?
 

zulux21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,343

NameUser

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,976
I recommend Vellum for self-published authors who own a Mac. It's the best software to create professional looking books (print and electronic). I bought Scrivener and hated it. The learning curve is too steep (for me). Also I mostly outline in moleskine notebooks so most of the features are of no use to me.
 

Fuu

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
Same. It's hard seeing what's new when coming from the old version. Also, is it just me, but if you hover over the icon in your dock does it say Scrivener 2?
It just says Scrivener here, along with the new icon. It always just said Scrivener for me though, no numbers.
 

zulux21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,343
Kinda weird that Windows is jumping from version 1 to version 3. Curious to see how it goes.
it's not heading there until next year (at least a few months)
and it's mostly to play catch up to the mac version. From what I am reading it's not that far behind the mac version in general.
 

Deleted member 412

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
491
The update doesn't really warrant a whole new purchase in my opinion, but I like Scrivener so much that I simply bought it to support Literature & Latte. The aesthetic upgrade is nice though – Scrivener 2 isn't particularly striking.

Edit: HOLD ON. Three-finger tap in composition mode has been fixed. This is the true game changer.
 
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Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
The update doesn't really warrant a whole new purchase in my opinion, but I like Scrivener so much that I simply bought it to support Literature & Latte. The aesthetic upgrade is nice though – Scrivener 2 isn't particularly striking.

Edit: HOLD ON. Three-finger tap in composition mode has been fixed. This is the true game changer.
What's that?
 

Fuu

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
Scrivener 3: I'm also loving the blue progress bar on the document title/quick search toolbar that fills according to how close you are to your session target.

It looks exactly like the loading bar on Safari, as does the quick search. Actually, the whole thing really looks like a Sierra app now. Super sleek.
 
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Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
Just got an inspiration to write a novel in a genre I don't think I've ever even read any books from.
I've seen some John Green movies but never read any of those books. Not sure I really want to...

I need to just sit down and write something. I have so many ideas that I think would be good stories but I'm just failing to that resistance.
Is this site going to do a short story contest at some point?
 

Alcoremortis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,554
Hmm... might have to give Scrivener a try after I win NaNoWriMo.

No idea if I'll actually use it since I'm a Google Docs person and like being able to work on the same thing from a variety of devices, but it might be useful for organizing subsequent drafts.

How is its version control?
 

NameUser

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,976
Just got an inspiration to write a novel in a genre I don't think I've ever even read any books from.
I've seen some John Green movies but never read any of those books. Not sure I really want to...

I need to just sit down and write something. I have so many ideas that I think would be good stories but I'm just failing to that resistance.
Is this site going to do a short story contest at some point?
Don't think, just go for it. Even writing an awful novel is better than nothing :)
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,375
Seeing everyone talk about Scrivener is kinda making me want to pick it up even though I have Word. All these various quality of life features sound pretty fun.
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
Downloaded, installed, and currently going through the new features. I love the whole design of this thing with how sleek and flat it is. Alright, Scrivener 3 is out, so there goes my last excuse for being slow as a writer.
Yep. I have a shiny new app. So I have to finish a manuscript this time. Right...right?
 

P-MAC

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,447
Wrote constantly as a kid, was known as a good short story writer all through school, read poetry out in City Hall at age 10, read and consume media constantly to this day. Have a degree in Creative & Professional Writing from a University considered to have one of the best writing departments in my country.

Despite all that I graduated in 2013 and haven't written a word (in my own time, outside of work) since then. In that sense I'm almost a complete newbie but with some random previous knowledge.

Something about being forced to crunch in University and then moving out into the real world with bills and girlfriends and full time work really just sucked all my enjoyment out. I'm really excited to get back into it and think this thread is going to be a huge part of that journey. The snowflake method already makes things feel easier. They didn't teach me that one in school!

EDIT: sorry know this really isn't relevant to anything but haven't posted in here before so thought I'd introduce myself a little
 
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OP
OP
weemadarthur

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,588
kamineko
It sounds like you may have some very valuable data for poets?
Do you think you could type up some information on presses, and how publishing works nowadays for that genre? I'd very much like to add it to the OP if it's not too inconvenient for you.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,976
Downloaded, installed, and currently going through the new features. I love the whole design of this thing with how sleek and flat it is. Alright, Scrivener 3 is out, so there goes my last excuse for being slow as a writer.

No, you can still slow yourself down, even with Scrivener. Once you go down the black hole of "research," you can stay down there for days.
 

Deleted member 2507

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,188
How does mind work?

I've have had some ideas kicking around for a longish time. Then, suddenly, those ideas just get more flesh (like i can imagine a scene perfectly instead of it being just a vague concept), and i write down outlines for them. They will make a good story, possibly many, once i get around writing them.

And now that i've done that, my mind has gone blank.

I can... inspect my ideas, images i have of them. But i cannot conjure any more ideas. How weird. It is as if the act of writing them down froze them...
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,976
Terrible. I feel like I have something great, but I make excuse after excuse when it comes to typing it up. This Sunday I'm just going to make the time and type up my set goal 2,500 words per day.

If it's too intimidating, try being less demanding on yourself. My work-related writing often gets in the way of my novel writing, but I've come to terms with the idea that "Even if you only do a little bit, if you do that every day, it adds up." So even if you only write a few sentences or a paragraph, that's still further along than you were before. It's better to get 5000 words done in a month, every month, through a few hundred words every day or so, then it is to write 5000 words every three months, because you only want to put in, say, a minimum of 1500 words per session.
 

W-00

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,436
So who of you are trying to crank out that first, elusive novel? How's it going?
Surprisingly well in terms of simply getting words down. I can't vouch for the quality of those words at all, but they're getting written down. Participating in NaNo this year has definitely been good for my writing. Not so good for my hands, but good for my writing.
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
Terrible. I feel like I have something great, but I make excuse after excuse when it comes to typing it up. This Sunday I'm just going to make the time and type up my set goal 2,500 words per day.

If it's too intimidating, try being less demanding on yourself. My work-related writing often gets in the way of my novel writing, but I've come to terms with the idea that "Even if you only do a little bit, if you do that every day, it adds up." So even if you only write a few sentences or a paragraph, that's still further along than you were before. It's better to get 5000 words done in a month, every month, through a few hundred words every day or so, then it is to write 5000 words every three months, because you only want to put in, say, a minimum of 1500 words per session.

Surprisingly well in terms of simply getting words down. I can't vouch for the quality of those words at all, but they're getting written down. Participating in NaNo this year has definitely been good for my writing. Not so good for my hands, but good for my writing.

Yeah I've just taken the advice from the link in the OP and set myself the task of writing at least 500 words per day at least 6 days a week.

If those words are trash I can always edit them later. In the past, my attempts to write a full novel get thwarted by my brain convincing me that it's terrinle and then it makes excuses to not do anything. Being content with the fact that I wrote days ago and not now.

It has helped for sure. Although, there's always the crippling fear that I have nothing of value to say ha. You get that initital rush when you outline your story and those rough pieces start to come together, but translating that into a full manuscript is a very different thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,375
Whelp recieved a short story rejection letter (along with a slew of other bad mail) for the first time in awhile. Its actually kinda nice, reminds me that even if im not being productive people are still looking at my stuff. Worst part of it really is just the reminder that my submission output has been abysmal this year. I still need to finish editing a big story too :/
 

Chome Chome

Member
Oct 29, 2017
60
Yeah I've just taken the advice from the link in the OP and set myself the task of writing at least 500 words per day at least 6 days a week.

If those words are trash I can always edit them later. In the past, my attempts to write a full novel get thwarted by my brain convincing me that it's terrinle and then it makes excuses to not do anything. Being content with the fact that I wrote days ago and not now.

It has helped for sure. Although, there's always the crippling fear that I have nothing of value to say ha. You get that initital rush when you outline your story and those rough pieces start to come together, but translating that into a full manuscript is a very different thing.
If it's too intimidating, try being less demanding on yourself. My work-related writing often gets in the way of my novel writing, but I've come to terms with the idea that "Even if you only do a little bit, if you do that every day, it adds up." So even if you only write a few sentences or a paragraph, that's still further along than you were before. It's better to get 5000 words done in a month, every month, through a few hundred words every day or so, then it is to write 5000 words every three months, because you only want to put in, say, a minimum of 1500 words per session.
Really good advice. It is indeed far more important to type up any amount than letting a whole day pass by with zero words typed up. I just need to get into the habit of setting a little bit of time just to write. Once I can get out of this frame of mind of being intimidated to start and enter one where I know I'll do at least 500 words, I'll be in a much better place.
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
Really good advice. It is indeed far more important to type up any amount than letting a whole day pass by with zero words typed up. I just need to get into the habit of setting a little bit of time just to write. Once I can get out of this frame of mind of being intimidated to start and enter one where I know I'll do at least 500 words, I'll be in a much better place.
Some days you crank it out in 10 minutes. Others it takes hours thinking about the words throughout the day. But I'm sure writing every day is a super important habit to get into for someone like me.
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,285
Minnesota
My goal was always to hit around 1k words a day. It's so few and after 50 days you have a 50k manuscript, which is either a full novel or halfway there depending on your genre :P

Got what might be the last rejection letter for Grimoire Library the other day. I have one more place I could send it to--super indie publishing house--and I'm not sure if i will or not. There's now a bit at the end I should fix since agent feedback has made me unhappy with it. Dunno when I'll get around to that though.

Will probably end up self publishing it along with everything else. Come December 7th, I'll have three completed novel manuscripts on my harddrive only read by friends and family.
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
I don't think I can be one of those guys who writes "x" words a day.
I just want to keep making progress now that I've started another novel.

Almost done my prologue should be about 2k words when it is done. Will try to get a section per week of about 2-3k words.
Would be nice to finish a novel for once instead of consistently bowing out around the 50 page mark.

It would be nice to have some kind of feature where I could shut off my internet and it wouldn't turn back on until I've put in say 1500 words.