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Ganondolf

Member
Jan 5, 2018
1,052
With the supposed reduced price of the "portable" model I doubt it will have the upgraded internals... Probably use any surplus of the X1 production nodes. I'm sure nVidia is still producing the X1 chip.

I think if they used the current X1 chip in the Lite they would have a serious heat issue with the smaller size. I doubt the x2 would cost Nintendo anymore than the current x1 does. Its probably more expensive for Nvidia to make x1 chips than x2 chips at this point.
 

C_Ali88

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
310
I honestly wouldn't know how practical that is, at least by the time the Pro model comes out. I sort of get the feeling they'd need to offer an update for something like that, seeing as, for example, not every PS4 game takes advantage of the PS4 Pro's power

Most games weren't created for stronger hardware. When the X1X and Pro arrived they generally have pro settings and base mode. Seeing as MK11 was originally made for stronger hardware it shouldn't be too intense a process. The game is there already in "pro" form essentially the Switch has the resolution, lighting, frame rate in portions scaled back but I believe it to be the same game essentially. I may be wrong though.

I think if they used the current X1 chip in the Lite they would have a serious heat issue with the smaller size. I doubt the x2 would cost Nintendo anymore than the current x1 does. Its probably more expensive for Nvidia to make x1 chips than x2 chips at this point.

With the shield still using X1 also I doubt it's more expensive.

Secondly does X2 run cooler? The chip they use for cars? I'm not too familiar with it to say myself for sure.

Active cooling with a mini fan, which the current doesn't have. The current just uses a copper heat sink I believe for passive cooling.
 

ByteCulture

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
706
I like it.

I would pay more for a console if it was manufactured in Japan instead of China. I would even pay more for an IPHONe if it was produced in America instead of China. As soon as i can i will start paying for handmade clothings and shoes just to be sure i get quality instead of cheap stuff that breaks really quickly.

If you are only able to buy expensives stuff because they get build in china to be cheaper then dont buy them at all.

It helps to correct things in the world market.
 

C_Ali88

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
310
I like it.

I would pay more for a console if it was manufactured in Japan instead of China. I would even pay more for an IPHONe if it was produced in America instead of China. As soon as i can i will start paying for handmade clothings and shoes just to be sure i get quality instead of cheap stuff that breaks really quickly.

If you are only able to buy expensives stuff because they get build in china to be cheaper then dont buy them at all.

It helps to correct things in the world market.

Ummm okay, Nintendo isn't doing it because of quality. They are doing to save a dime!
 

NekoNeko

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,447
if the screen of the pro isn't 4k i will pass, even my $1200 phone has a 4k screen, no excuses.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
Most games weren't created for stronger hardware. When the X1X and Pro arrived they generally have pro settings and base mode. Seeing as MK11 was originally made for stronger hardware it shouldn't be too intense a process. The game is there already in "pro" form essentially the Switch has the resolution, lighting, frame rate in portions scaled back but I believe it to be the same game essentially. I may be wrong though.



With the shield still using X1 also I doubt it's more expensive.

Secondly does X2 run cooler? The chip they use for cars? I'm not too familiar with it to say myself for sure.

Active cooling with a mini fan, which the current doesn't have. The current just uses a copper heat sink I believe for passive cooling.
The X2 has a mode where it runs at up to 1.2GHZ CPU and 854MHz GPU with TDP of 7.5W. The Switch runs at 1GHz CPU and 768MHZ GPU and pulls 11W from the wall, so, say 7W or so for the SoC.
Despite what many want to believe, it's not clear cut at all with what we know of Tegra Parker and what the Switch does.

Overclocking the Switch to 1.2GHZ/854MHZ doesn't seem to incur in a big increase in power or heat either, though nobody has tested it properly.

There are DIY versions of a "Switch Lite" that have reduced volume and weight by 30% (Down to the size of that supposed leak) with the innards of the current Switch, so I don't know whether a new SoC is really necessary for a reduction of the size of the frame keeping the same screen size. (Obviously not down to the size of a Psvita)

Oh, and the Switch absolutely has active cooling. It has a heatsink and a fan, kind of like an ultrabook.
 

Alex3190

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,127
if the screen of the pro isn't 4k i will pass, even my $1200 phone has a 4k screen, no excuses.
If the new switch battery doesn't last 12 hours on that 4k screen then I am out as well.

In all seriousness I do hope the screen stays at 720p but they increase the size of the screen and reduce or get rid of the bezel.

Most people will get used to it. Next gen switch will definitely have a 1080p screen and great battery life.
 

Galava

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,080
If the new switch battery doesn't last 12 hours on that 4k screen then I am out as well.

In all seriousness I do hope the screen stays at 720p but they increase the size of the screen and reduce or get rid of the bezel.

Most people will get used to it. Next gen switch will definitely have a 1080p screen and great battery life.
I'm on the same boat. It's still gonna be 720p to keep some parity between all the portable models so they don't have to adapt UI and stuff. Games would just render closer to native 720p on the Pro than the others.
 

C_Ali88

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
310
The X2 has a mode where it runs at up to 1.2GHZ CPU and 854MHz GPU with TDP of 7.5W. The Switch runs at 1GHz CPU and 768MHZ GPU and pulls 11W from the wall, so, say 7W or so for the SoC.
Despite what many want to believe, it's not clear cut at all with what we know of Tegra Parker and what the Switch does.

Overclocking the Switch to 1.2GHZ/854MHZ doesn't seem to incur in a big increase in power or heat either, though nobody has tested it properly.

There are DIY versions of a "Switch Lite" that have reduced volume and weight by 30% (Down to the size of that supposed leak) with the innards of the current Switch, so I don't know whether a new SoC is really necessary for a reduction of the size of the frame keeping the same screen size. (Obviously not down to the size of a Psvita)

Oh, and the Switch absolutely has active cooling. It has a heatsink and a fan, kind of like an ultrabook.

Ahhh thank you, it does indeed have a fan.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
So do you guys think the SoC will already be manufactured in 7nm?
I think there's still a chance. The X1 was the first Nvidia design to jump from 28nm. Mariko doing the same with 7nm wouldn't be unusual.

That being said, I wonder if AMD'S lackluster performance is a sign of things not being as big a jump as we were expecting. Granted, this is AMD.

But I'd still bet on 12nm, which is still a considerable jump energy reduction
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
They started a special campaign in Japan, every Switch sold between today and June 27 will get a 3000 Yen eShop voucher.

Smells like a stock-clearing campaign and to soften the blow for "I just bought one before the revision" buyers.

I feel this post isn't getting enough attention ... that's pretty significant and points to something happening. As another poster pointed out June 27 is also Nintendo's shareholder meeting. I think that could be the announcement date.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
12nm versus a 20nm Tegra X1 would still be a heckuva upgrade. That would be a good deal better than even Parker/X2.

They could most likely run previously docked performance in undocked mode (384 gigaflops) at the same or possibly even better battery life, and what the system could do docked ... would likely be double what it can do now if not more.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I do. I also think Nvidia will be releasing the new Tegra SoC for tablets and phones and the like to compete in the consumer electronics SoC space.
The only way they can do that is if they build something that's much different than we expect for Nintendo. Like using an A76/A55 setup. Unless Nvidia is planning on taking a bath on this, that's very unlikely.
 

tsab

Member
Nov 3, 2017
893
Oh no, the power increase isn't exactly unbelievable. I'm talking about improving the graphics of the game to such a point that it matches the XB1/PS4 version...for just the Switch Pro. I'd imagine they'd need to do something specific for just that one model or something. A boost in resolution and performance is much more likely there, tbh
On second thought yeah if the Pro doesnt add another 2GB of RAM it won't have supposedly enough RAM for better textures
Fixing the (facial) hair and, adding more blood, and making the krypt not being like a mobile game from 2012 on a 900p resolution will be good enough then.


edit:
Also I think there is a chance that BotW2 teaser was shown rendered on a Pro, unless Nintendo Magic Optimization™ used
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
On second thought yeah if the Pro doesnt add another 2GB of RAM it won't have supposedly enough RAM for better textures
Fixing the (facial) hair and, adding more blood, and making the krypt not being like a mobile game from 2012 on a 900p resolution will be good enough then
I don't know if we can expect the pro to do much more than just be a whored up Switch Lite. If the Lite uses the Mariko SoC, then what does the Pro use? I dont think Nintendo would pay for 2 chips (I know they did for the 3DS, but that was probably much cheaper).
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
The rumor is Nvidia is using Mariko in a new Shield TV console as well. So it won't be just a Switch processor.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
I don't know if we can expect the pro to do much more than just be a whored up Switch Lite. If the Lite uses the Mariko SoC, then what does the Pro use? I dont think Nintendo would pay for 2 chips (I know they did for the 3DS, but that was probably much cheaper).

There can be a wide range of performance from just one chip. A Mariko chip in the Switch Mini could be gimped to only run at a certain clock to keep heat/battery usage down, whereas on a Pro model the same chip could be opened up to full potential.

Keep in mind even the Tegra X1 is gimped hard in portable Switch mode, it's easily capable of far greater performance.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
The only way they can do that is if they build something that's much different than we expect for Nintendo. Like using an A76/A55 setup. Unless Nvidia is planning on taking a bath on this, that's very unlikely.
Why wouldn't they use A76/A55 for Nintendo? The Switch is a high power device, it uses more power than any phone and almost any tablet in regular operation, and the A76 cores are tiny anyway.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
I like it.

I would pay more for a console if it was manufactured in Japan instead of China. I would even pay more for an IPHONe if it was produced in America instead of China. As soon as i can i will start paying for handmade clothings and shoes just to be sure i get quality instead of cheap stuff that breaks really quickly.

If you are only able to buy expensives stuff because they get build in china to be cheaper then dont buy them at all.

It helps to correct things in the world market.

Thanks Donald
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
There can be a wide range of performance from just one chip. A Mariko chip in the Switch Mini could be gimped to only run at a certain clock to keep heat/battery usage down, whereas on a Pro model the same chip could be opened up to full potential.

Keep in mind even the Tegra X1 is gimped hard in portable Switch mode, it's easily capable of far greater performance.
Maybe maybe not. They could pull the same stunt with the Super line and just have the Lites be binned chips

Why wouldn't they use A76/A55 for Nintendo? The Switch is a high power device, it uses more power than any phone and almost any tablet in regular operation, and the A76 cores are tiny anyway.
With Nintendo being the main purchaser of these chips, Nvidia will cater to them first, that and they sat out competing in this market since the X2 never took hold (nor did they seem to care)
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
Maybe maybe not. They could pull the same stunt with the Super line and just have the Lites be binned chips


With Nintendo being the main purchaser of these chips, Nvidia will cater to them first, that and they sat out competing in this market since the X2 never took hold (nor did they seem to care)
But why in hell would Nintendo not want A76 cores if they get to choose?
 

Tora

The Enlightened Wise Ones
Member
Jun 17, 2018
8,639
I'll wait and see what actually happens but UK pricing for Nintendo products is just getting worse and worse

ÂŁ49.99-ÂŁ59.99 for titles in the eshop with prices that never come down, ever, even the third party ones that are less than a tenner on other, far more robust platforms

It is like anti-business sense. It is like Salvador Dali's take on an eshop. It is like a company that neither cares about getting it right nor shows an interest in ever trying
Stop shopping on Amazon then. Simplygames, Shopto, Thegamecollection, base.com...so many options, Amazon is ok occasionally too
 

Alex3190

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,127
I'm on the same boat. It's still gonna be 720p to keep some parity between all the portable models so they don't have to adapt UI and stuff. Games would just render closer to native 720p on the Pro than the others.

Definitely. 1080p screen would just require more resources that the switch pro will not have. 720p native on most games is what we will get.

I also still think both new models will have very similar chipsets. The lite will be underclocked compared to the pro with less components.

Nintendo will try to save every penny possible.
 

3bdelilah

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,615
I hope the Switch Pro/Super Switch/whatever releases later this year, I've been meaning to finally get a Switch but the hardware upgrade news has me stalling it a bit more.
 

ByteCulture

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
706

The problem what have is... i buy shoes and i have to buy them after a month or two again. I buy clothes.... and they are done after a few months.

I started to not care about buying expensive clothings like Jeans for 100 Euro because they are broken soon after anyway. What i want is to support local manufacturer. I want quality. I dont want to go to a stupid store every few month to buy all clothes again.

I have a sweater from my younger days... its black and white and i love to wear it under leather clothings on cold days. Do you want to know how old it is???? Its crazy 16 years old and still not broken. Like many clothings in my youth.... then it started to change some years later and all the clothings now are like 60-80 % poor quality produced on the cheapest possible way.

The same goes with electronic stuff.... i kind of bothered by the fact that many electronic stuff is build that its expires after a while so people get forced to buy new electronic stuff or have to repair it. If we can make sure that stuff is manufactured local again and we put a nice way behind it ( we are working on one ) to 100 % ensure that all stuff is quality made under certain "guidelines" this will improve everything.

I dont go to bigger stores anymore. They are not good at all.

I even buy my watches on Etsy. Steampunk stuff, handmade, well crafted, with a life time insurance by only one guy. The best watch i ever had. I have to pay like 200-300 Euro for it... but its a once in a lifetime purchase and i dont need another one unless it gets lost.
 
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MisterSnrub

Member
Mar 10, 2018
5,901
Someplace Far Away
Lmao, i was intending to reply to you. I just woke up though, so when I saw Amazon in the quoted part of your message I just assumed that you said it. My bad!
Oh I kind of just went off on one at the eshop. I know all too well what it means to mindlessly type before I've even had my coffee, but surely you must agree, if nothing else, that the eshop is horrible. But yes UK pricing is horrible in general, and as I am friends with some local independent retailers who simply cannot afford to stock Nintendo stuff at the prices they were charging I kind of see that the problem lies at Nintendo's door and nobody elses.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
The minds of Nintendo are an enigma. There's also the A73 cores which are lower powered and smaller.
I think the same number of A76 cores could perform better than A73, at the same power consumption, on the same node, obviously running lower frequencies. Maybe I'm wrong tho, it's impossible to know.

Isn't A76 designed for 7nm specifically? I don't know how flexible it is though.
The Snapdragon 675 has A76 cores on Samsung 11nm LPP. That said, given there were signs in the code for L4T that Nvidia was implementing driver support for their new chip, it's not out of the realm of possibility that they will want to market it beyond Nintendo, and for that they would want it to be as competitive as they can in the cutthroat mobile chip space.
It's not like PC GPUs where they can get away with being on a rehashed 16nm node until 2020.
 

Tora

The Enlightened Wise Ones
Member
Jun 17, 2018
8,639
Oh I kind of just went off on one at the eshop. I know all too well what it means to mindlessly type before I've even had my coffee, but surely you must agree, if nothing else, that the eshop is horrible. But yes UK pricing is horrible in general, and as I am friends with some local independent retailers who simply cannot afford to stock Nintendo stuff at the prices they were charging I kind of see that the problem lies at Nintendo's door and nobody elses.
Absolutely agreed. The Eshop is horrible, it's similar to the PS store really in most cases and at least you get a little bit of money back but the problem is that spending ÂŁ50 on a game just to get ÂŁ5 back that's locked to the store isn't as great as just buying it physically for ÂŁ10 cheaper lol
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
I think Nvidia have just certified a T214 (Mariko) Jetson board with the Khronos group. If you take a look at Khronos's Vulkan conformant products page here, you'll see a Nvidia Confidential device at position 353. This isn't that strange to begin with (you'll see quite a few Qualcomm and Intel undisclosed/confidential devices on the page), but the interesting thing is that it's running a new Tegra SoC. You can see it's ARMv8a and runs Linux for Tegra R32. My first thought here is it's an Orin board (the successor to Xavier which Nvidia showed in a roadmap last year), but running over to the Linux for Tegra source code there's an interesting little change from R31 to R32 in this file: several references to T214. The same T214 we've seen referenced in Switch firmware.

The actual changes in L4T don't tell us much (Nvidia likely scrubbed all T214-related code from the public release, but missed these references in a couple of comments), but there are actually a few things I think we can deduce from this. Firstly, I don't think it's a coincidence that T214 references appeared in L4T in the same release that was used to certify this confidential Nvidia device; I think that device is using T214. Secondly, I think the fact that it's a L4T-based Khronos-certified device means that it's not a Switch Pro/Plus/Mini/etc. or a devkit, as Switch itself uses a different OS, and even if L4T was used in Switch devkits, there would be no reason to have them certified by Khronos, that's only intended for devices for public sale.

If you look at devices which are Khronos-certified and run L4T, they all fall in a single category: Jetson boards. Releasing a Jetson board for a new Tegra chip isn't exactly surprising, but what is interesting is that it means T214/Mariko isn't a Nintendo-exclusive chip. It's being used by Nvidia in other devices, and possibly being sold to other manufacturers as well (as a large part of the reason Jetson boards exist is for hardware designers to use for prototyping/development of Tegra-powered hardware). This isn't really a change from the TX1 used in the original Switch, but it could well impact what kind of SoC the new Switch device(s) get. A Nintendo-exclusive chip would be designed 100% by and for Nintendo, they'd be paying for R&D and making every design decision. A new Tegra SoC which Nvidia will be shopping around to other manufacturers, though, could see Nvidia making more of the design decisions (and presumably paying for more or all of the R&D).

I still feel that, as Nintendo's going to be by far the largest customer of T214, it's been designed primarily around their needs, but Nvidia may make decisions Nintendo wouldn't have, in order to make it more appealing to other customers. A 7nm process becomes a little more likely (still unlikely, but I feel Nvidia would push for 7nm, where Nintendo would push for 12nm), as does a CPU setup capable of hitting higher peak performance levels (ie A76 cores instead of A73/A75). I also think Turing (and even Tensor cores) become more likely as Nvidia would want to sell their latest GPU tech. I don't think it massively changes the performance levels I'd expect from a new Switch, but it does perhaps give a bit of insight into the design process which led to the new SoC powering it.
This is what I was mentioning, it looks like Nvidia is working on a Tegra chip they can market beyond its use for the new Switch model, even if Nintendo was the kickstarter of the project.