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WSJ: Nintendo shifts part of production from China to SEA, and starts production for two new Switch SKUs
- Thread starter Zedark
- Start date
I really would not get why wound they change to a 1080p screen. What the switch is lacking is performance and image quality but the pixel density of the screen is perfectly ok. I hope they don't do that.
The system gets hot largely because the battery is being charged in docked mode.
People have overclocked the Switch to higher clocks undocked and they've noted the system does not get that hot.
A die-shrink does resolve a lot of that too ... the heat is from the chip consuming power and heating up ... well you die shrink and the chip consumes a lot less power and gets a lot less hot.
What temperature range are we talking about? Though the battery charging sure would have an impact on heat, didn't consider that.
Unless there is a significant power boost what is the point with 1080 screen? What first party titles would reach that as it stands right Now?
Games in handheld arent always reaching 720 as is.
Games in handheld arent always reaching 720 as is.
Could a Switch Pro change the architecture of the Switch to allow it to access extra power housed in a new dock?
I know the current Switch isn't capable of using its USB-C port that way, but perhaps a revision could.
I know the current Switch isn't capable of using its USB-C port that way, but perhaps a revision could.
I really wouldn't expect a premium version and neither upgrading to a 1080p screen or dock performance in handheld as many games are still 720p when docked and battery life would still be poor or even become worse. Additionally, rumours always talked about one or two revisions (mini or another combo). It would make no sense to launch a mini version and a premium version and just keep producing the standard one with the same old SoC.
A journalist told me he just heard about a mini model but the only detail he could give me was the screen being tynier. I would bet for the mini version losing joycons and dock favouring to just a MiniHDMI output. That version should have the exact same clocks as the original Switch. Then, the second revision shouls be like the upgrade from NDS to NDS Lite: Same size, same battery, marginally improved clocks in handheld mode to help dynamic resolution games while still improving battery life, and maybe, only maybe get rid of the screen black bars to make the visible screen marginally bigger, still 720p, and I wish it to be OLED.
A journalist told me he just heard about a mini model but the only detail he could give me was the screen being tynier. I would bet for the mini version losing joycons and dock favouring to just a MiniHDMI output. That version should have the exact same clocks as the original Switch. Then, the second revision shouls be like the upgrade from NDS to NDS Lite: Same size, same battery, marginally improved clocks in handheld mode to help dynamic resolution games while still improving battery life, and maybe, only maybe get rid of the screen black bars to make the visible screen marginally bigger, still 720p, and I wish it to be OLED.
Only Thunderbolt port can do that. Which is no way Intel will let this out of their chipsets.
Edit: oh, they just need USB 4 to do the same.
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They won't do such thing. Expensive to develop, more expensive for the final user, more hardware failures... Wii didn't even had USB 2.0, it was 1.1 and eventually the hackers achieved to introduce some drivers to improve it.
Nope, doesn't look like dog shit at all. I'm seriously not being a fanboy either, maybe it's just how the TV upscales things but games like Odyssey/Zelda look clean as hell on the TV considering they're 900p. I obviously have game mode turned on as well.
Just in general, 720p content still looks fine on the 65".
I dunno if that's an apple to apple comparison. The Wii was an upgraded Gamecube and, frankly, didn't have the I/O to support USB 2.0. The Switch was designed out of the box to use USB-C, USB PD, and Displayport Alt Mode at a time when, what, only Macbooks and a handful of Windows laptops have the same level of capability? Plus, Nintendo has patents for docks with upgraded hardware they submitted before the Switch's launch. Thunderbolt 3/USB 4 can't be ruled out.
Docked is 393, not 384.
Switch's GPU is 393 GFLOPS. Not sure where you got 384. Ideally Switch Pro's handheld should be equivalent to current Switch docked specs. And switch pro docked specs should be 2.25-2.5x faster in GPU. We need 2.25x minimum to bump resolution from 720p to 1080p, so 884-1000 GFLOPs would be ideal. Hopefully Nintendo follows that route.
2.5x in GPU, 2.5-3x CPU, 8GB DDR4X Ram w/ 50-58GB/s bandwidth would be great and would trade blows with xbone. That being said, I don't know if this is possible on a 12nm node while having the same power draw. I think it's doable on a 7nm. We can all dream, but I'm keeping my expectations low.
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I only see two viable solutions for the Pro :
- docked specs in handheld mode
- same specs as before
Otherwise there would be too many configurations to consider for developpers.
- docked specs in handheld mode
- same specs as before
Otherwise there would be too many configurations to consider for developpers.
I'm not entirely sure.
Would be one additional SKU which would just be to make everything smoother if they're using dynamic res for example.
Original Handheld spec/Battery saver mode
Original Docked mode/Switch Pro handheld mode
Switch Docked pro mode
Yeah, more performance profiles would be fine. Xbox games have to deal with the original Xbox One, the Xbox One S, and the Xbox One X all having different performance profiles, and they manage.
Docked specs in handheld mode mean the system is 2.5x more capable than the OG Switch .... it almost certainly in that case would be capable of running better docked then too.
Arbitrarily limiting devs from access that would be kinda dumb IMO. If a dev wants to use that extra power, let them.
Would a more power efficient chip also be a lot cooler?
By that I mean would a theoretical boost docked mode benefit using half the watts be able to push double the power with around the same heat?
Might produce different scenarios.
If less heat is produced the smaller switch might use the chip but limit it to the OG switch handheld mode.
Remove the vent and the fan, save some money and make the unit thinner/smaller.
Or there's still a vent and they can allow access to docked mode. Would help compatibility with some games running not great on handheld mode.
Heat is probably a factor with going beyond docked clocks on the pro too.
If it's much cooler then it shouldn't be an issue if there's still a vent/fan.
By that I mean would a theoretical boost docked mode benefit using half the watts be able to push double the power with around the same heat?
Might produce different scenarios.
If less heat is produced the smaller switch might use the chip but limit it to the OG switch handheld mode.
Remove the vent and the fan, save some money and make the unit thinner/smaller.
Or there's still a vent and they can allow access to docked mode. Would help compatibility with some games running not great on handheld mode.
Heat is probably a factor with going beyond docked clocks on the pro too.
If it's much cooler then it shouldn't be an issue if there's still a vent/fan.
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using less power means lower heat, yes. but it's not so linear that "half the watts = 2x the power". those days are over.
Some speculation:
Maybe there was meant to be a new switch model out this month but it was delayed because of the tariff news. Not sure when this was made public, but if Nintendo is moving production to another plant and already started, it sounds like they planned on starting production earlier.
I wonder if they'll do a staggered roll out like PS4 Slim and PS4 pro.
Were like a month and a half apart, iirc
September 2016 vs November 2016.
Could do something similar, lite in September with Links Awakening and pro in October/November with Luigi's Mansion
Maybe there was meant to be a new switch model out this month but it was delayed because of the tariff news. Not sure when this was made public, but if Nintendo is moving production to another plant and already started, it sounds like they planned on starting production earlier.
I wonder if they'll do a staggered roll out like PS4 Slim and PS4 pro.
Were like a month and a half apart, iirc
September 2016 vs November 2016.
Could do something similar, lite in September with Links Awakening and pro in October/November with Luigi's Mansion
This could work, though I don't see a huge problem with a simultaneous release as well
I'm guessing the main benefit to doing so would be to help get rid of the current/original SKU.
Though it's weird that it seems like Nintendo asked retailers to start emptying stock a few weeks ago and they didn't send much stock last quarter so it's a little weird that it's so far off
I think realistically what we should expect at this point is both the Switch lite and Switch Pro running a 12nm variant of the current Switch chip, but at different levels of performance. Most likely the Switch lite will have cut down battery and cooling such that it will use the exact same performance profiles as the current Switch, while the Pro will have some additional ones hovering somewhere around 2x the current docked performance, and allow portable games to reach current docked clocks. Also I'm thinking the Pro will have double the RAM, because Nintendo usually does at least that, and I believe there was evidence of an 8GB configuration in the firmware.
That probably isn't happening without USB4, which is probably not ready to start appearing in retail devices yet. If it happens it won't be until the Switch's successor at the earliest.
I think what's ideal is docked specs on pro handheld, and then 2.5x that for the docked mode (~900 GFLOPs). Just keep the pattern of 2.5x power going from handheld OG switch to OG docked Switch/Handheld Switch Pro to Docked Switch Pro to make it consistent and more seamless. Whatever performance modes in between should be be optional. At the very least 2.25x as much to go from 720p to 1080p.
You are absolutely right, but anyways I see that as Nintendo expecting Switch to be a long long-lived platform.
If we are waiting for two new models they have to be a "Switch Lite" and the Mini version, if they just "discard" manufacturing the standard switch that would be an extra headache for developers about optimization. Check XOne and PS4 models: One S indeed had a little more of power than the Fat model in the GPU but was just included to let the games process and output real HDR.
They who? I was just asking because of a post above, I havent been following all the rumours :/
Actually, this was a given on how their patented SCD (Supplemental Computing Device) would be in used for. After all, they are with Nvidia. So this would soon be a reality for us in the future.
That's why USB C is used for Nintendo. Look up the patent of the SCD back from 2017 and you'll see what the future holds.
I would imagine Nintendo is planning to release these in conjunction with Pokemon.
Guess the hardware team has a big red notice on all their workplaces with the writing: "POKEMON SWORD/SHIELD RELEASE DATE".
That's the one game they have to get the more portable revision out before or at latest together with.
Can't see Nintendo going 7nm. Too high cost and Nvidia haven't even started 7nm production have they? Nice safe 12nm is more likely. And if you get more performance its because the new chips from Nvidia happen to be more powerful - Nintendo aren't pushing power.
I'd much prefer a slight bump to allow handheld games to run nicely at native resolution - sub native is horrible, 720p screen is plenty for portable use. And 1080p target when docked.
I'd much prefer a slight bump to allow handheld games to run nicely at native resolution - sub native is horrible, 720p screen is plenty for portable use. And 1080p target when docked.
I prefer to think of it as a Majoras mask esque clock at the bottom of everyone's vision.
If portable mode's base performance = old Switch's docked mode with room for a boost mode, then I'd be happy.
so would I but even that may be a challenge. Isn't that like 2x performance on the GPU?
Well thanks. Now i have the image in mind with Miyamoto, wearing Majora's Mask, jumping around in their offices randomly.
Okay, Konji Kondo dressed as Tingle running behind him playing this has been added to my mind image. It's perfect now.
Just to add to the conversation, the Dragon Quest hardware bundle in Japan which is set to launch on Sep, 27th features a plain Switch on the ad:
So, either :
1) we might have to wait longer for the revision to come out
2) or the revision is optically similar to the present Switch
3) or the Switch on this ad is a placeholder
I'd personally wager that the ad is final and that the revision which will look different is slated for later.
So, either :
1) we might have to wait longer for the revision to come out
2) or the revision is optically similar to the present Switch
3) or the Switch on this ad is a placeholder
I'd personally wager that the ad is final and that the revision which will look different is slated for later.
Just to add to the conversation, the Dragon Quest hardware bundle in Japan which is set to launch on Sep, 27th features a plain Switch on the ad:
So, either :
1) we might have to wait longer for the revision to come out
2) or the revision is optically similar to the present Switch
3) or the Switch on this ad is a placeholder
I'd personally wager that the ad is final and that the revision which will look different is slated for later.
They could also just be bundling up the old one, and this bundle has no material impact on the release schedule of say, the mini. I remember buying a 2ds xl well, just for them to announce and release a samus returns 3ds xl right afterwards haha *cries* which is just to say, new models haven't put them off shipping special editions of previous models before
Then again, October is super open!
The 2DS XL wasn't the "previous model" of the 3DS XL, though. The 2DS XL was actually newer, although they co-existed in the market for a time.
I think it's a little interesting that they're not showing off a shot of the packaging of this DQ bundle. They usually show that off when they announce bundles.
Says who?
They'll just sell both at the same time. The DQ11 bundle will push old systems out the channelJust to add to the conversation, the Dragon Quest hardware bundle in Japan which is set to launch on Sep, 27th features a plain Switch on the ad:
So, either :
1) we might have to wait longer for the revision to come out
2) or the revision is optically similar to the present Switch
3) or the Switch on this ad is a placeholder
I'd personally wager that the ad is final and that the revision which will look different is slated for later.
Agreed? In this case I'm saying the mini could have launched and the two could co-exist, as of this bundle.
As with the 2ds xl launching and the two co-existing as of that bundle.
Obviously this is all speculation, but we just kind of agreed with different ordered wording lol perhaps reaching different conclusions though