WSJ: Nintendo shifts part of production from China to SEA, and starts production for two new Switch SKUs

ShadowFox08

Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,585
That's true. I could see them returning it to full fat clocks. In fact I'd guess exactly that if anything, as it's path of least resistance type of thing. Works perfect for back compatibility too. You literally convinced me right now LOL.

4GB RAM s already pretty healthy especially for the power class here, so not much need to upgrade that. I mean are they going to 8GB? would be pointless, that's as much as Xbox/PS4 which are still way more powerful. Also RAM is very expensive.
If switch pro is going for a 2x boost for Everything (GPU, bandwidth, CPU), then boost to at least 6GB is necessary. 8GB is better than 6 for higher quality textures and bandwidth. The more the merrier. On paper, xbone base is 3x more powerful in GPU, but actual performance is closer to 2-2.5x in GPU, if mixed precision mode and Nvidia architecture is taken advantage of. This doesn't factor in Switch's CPU and Bandwidth bottle necks though, which could widen performance, resolution, and fidelity for the most demanding games like Doom.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,637
Pro Model

- 12nm Nvidia Mariko chip, less than half the power consumption of the old TX1.
- Better quality, screen size increased to 7+ inches.
- Battery Mode: Allows for 5-7 hour battery life now (@ 153 gigaflops).
- Performance Mode: Allows for 384 gigaflop performance undocked but battery life drops to 3 hours, maybe an option 500-600 gigaflop mode docked.
- 64GB onboard storage.
- 4-6GB of RAM, switched to LPDDR4x.

$299.99 MSRP

Mini Model

- Same 12nm Mariko Chip
- Smaller battery.
- 6.2 inch screen
- No Joycons
- 32GB onboard storage.
- No Dock (special Dock Bundle can be purchased separately for $129.99 with 2 Joycons).
- No internal fan, no performance mode. .

- $199.99 MSRP

Probably what I'd guess now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,991
Pro Model

- 12nm Nvidia Mariko chip, less than half the power consumption of the old TX1.
- Better quality, screen size increased to 7+ inches.
- Battery Mode: Allows for 5-7 hour battery life now (@ 153 gigaflops).
- Performance Mode: Allows for 384 gigaflop performance undocked but battery life drops to 3 hours, maybe an option 500-600 gigaflop mode docked.
- 64GB onboard storage.
- 4-6GB of RAM, switched to LPDDR4x.

$299.99 MSRP

Mini Model

- Same 12nm Mariko Chip
- Smaller battery.
- 6.2 inch screen
- No Joycons
- 32GB onboard storage.
- No Dock (special Dock Bundle can be purchased separately for $129.99 with 2 Joycons).
- No internal fan, no performance mode. .

- $199.99 MSRP

Probably what I'd guess now.
Kind of what I'm hoping/expecting.

Enhanced Switch being similar in size to the normal Switch but the entire tablet is a screen/very thin bezel would be pretty sexy.
I'm not sure if docked mode will get a boost, but I'm hoping that you can play docked level specs in handheld mode.
Though, perhaps they could do that on the mini as well if it's just a heat/battery thing?

Even if the screen is still 720p, docked mode BOTW and Mario Odyssey would look stellar on the tablet screen. Even games that look a bit funky in both mode like Doom and Xenoblade would look great here.
Theoretically you wouldn't need to patch titles to benefit so an entire library's worth of titles being compatible would be great. As you mentioned, a battery saver mode for compatibility (any game that needs handheld mode/runs better in handheld mode) would be great too. Think the game looks/runs fine without the power boost? Switch to a battery save mode and double the battery life
 

Pancakes R Us

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,415
I have a crazy conspiracy about scarlett as a switch compatible console / dock being a collaborative effort between Nintendo and Microsoft in the works since OG switch development. My theory is that the new switch models and possibly the OG will be compatible.

The OG switch was a market test for hybrid console viability.
Microsoft is moving towards services rather than console focus.

They have been increasingly friendly to each other lately.

Many clues towards "bringing gamers together".

- scarlett - nintendo logo color
- original switch codename: NX (Nintendo / Xbox)
- american offices are on top of eachother, so a partnership is easy.
- hybrid chipset architecture would allow the compatible switch/scarlett console to support more games than any system / service.
- the switch family manufacturing is moving to taiwan (where xbox 1 and likely scarlett will be produced)
Just needed to bring this post to the attention of any members that may have missed this.
 

BlueManifest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,510
Bigger screen
Better kickstand
Better battery
Game cart slot without a Manuel flap
Better WiFi

This is all I want, anything else after that is a bonus
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,637
My other guess for the Mini Switch is the controls (analog stick, d-pad, buttons) are *under* the screen.

So it may actually be less wide than a Vita but taller.

No clamshell, one unibody design (like the old 2DS).

This would explain the original reports of it not looking like a traditional portable. It also probably makes the thing easier to hold for kids.
 

Koppai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
530
The DS Lite was not a lower-cost model. It was the same price as the DS in the US and it was actually more expensive than the DS in Japan.

I don't think it's a good comparison to either the "Switch mini" or a Switch revision. It's a little bit of both, due to the unique situation of the original DS being so oversized that the smaller version could also be the one with quality of life improvements (like brighter—and actually slightly larger—screens and better battery life).

I could see the Switch "Series 2" model having those sorts of quality of life improvements like better battery life, a larger screen, or more storage. It obviously won't be dramatically smaller in size, in the same way the DS Lite was, and it will use the same joy-cons. I don't think Nintendo's quite ready to introduce a new hardware performance profile (i.e., better graphics) but I could be wrong. It'll probably be the same price as the current Switch.

The Switch mini will be the same thing we've been talking about forever now; smaller but most importantly cheaper, with "fused" joy-cons to reduce production cost.
DS was $150, DS Lite was $130
 

Kerotan

Member
Oct 31, 2018
2,048
Smart given the climate. This American tarrifs are going to really benefit other countries in the region. I wonder will MS and Sony follow.
 

Zoon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
698
I have a crazy conspiracy about scarlett as a switch compatible console / dock being a collaborative effort between Nintendo and Microsoft in the works since OG switch development. My theory is that the new switch models and possibly the OG will be compatible.

The OG switch was a market test for hybrid console viability.
Microsoft is moving towards services rather than console focus.

They have been increasingly friendly to each other lately.

Many clues towards "bringing gamers together".

- scarlett - nintendo logo color
- original switch codename: NX (Nintendo / Xbox)
- american offices are on top of eachother, so a partnership is easy.
- hybrid chipset architecture would allow the compatible switch/scarlett console to support more games than any system / service.
- the switch family manufacturing is moving to taiwan (where xbox 1 and likely scarlett will be produced)
Anybody remember that patent Nintendo filed before the Switch was announced about a supplementary computation device? Microsoft announcing that you can set up the Xbox as an I home server reminded me of that.

It said something l along the lines about allowing a device to wirelessly borrow processing abilities from other hardware. I wonder if that patent ever comes into play for Nintendo.

Edit: here’s a link to an article from 2016 that gives a summary of the SCD https://amp.tweaktown.com/?url=https://www.tweaktown.com/news/53167/nintendo-patents-external-console-upgrade-box/index.html
They hated them because they found the truth.

Regardless of it happening or not, it makes sense.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,637
If developers could make games in Pro-performance spec like

384 gigaflop - undocked
600 gigaflop - docked

That would likely *really* help games like Xenoblade, Witcher III, DOOM Eternal, DQXI S, etc.

Gives developers a lot of breathing room, but since they're mandated to make a 384 gigaflop mode minimum, that would ensure compatibility even with original Switch units.

Nintendo could just recommend a battery pack for playing undocked if you have an original Switch model and want to play one of these Pro titles undocked.

To me that would be a good solution all around.
 

shark97

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,356
Switch is gonna be close to 3 years old by the end of the year.
Hardware is from 2015.

I just bought a phone with a Snapdragon 855 and 12GB RAM...

but it cost $750. And that's cheap. A Samsung S10 will run more like 1k with only 8GB ram.

299 phones (Switch) you aren't getting those specs. Then on top of that NIntendo has to pay for elaborate controllers and such.

Like I said though I can definitely see them doing an upclock/return to regular clocks.

About RAM, I could be mistaken but I think you're usually limited to multiples of 2. Since Switch is 4GB, a 6GB model is precluded. You can only do 8.

So Switch is doing 768/307.2 clocks. With better manufacturing and cooling, get that to 1ghz/500+mhz. That's a decent bump. The latter is a 62% bump undocked (course the 500 number is also pure random speculation on my part)

Again it's 299. AND Nintendo likes fat hardware profit margins. I could be wrong, but I just dont see any aggressive action from them. They cant go to 399, so they're stuck.

I guess if they just feel like they fell too far behind PS5 and XB2, such that they can no longer string along even bad ports like Witcher 3, they would have to redesign from the ground up IMO. BUT, they have zero incentive to do that. Nintendo is not interested in making 3rd parties lives easier, and they dont need power to sell their own games, which is what they really want to do. The only incentive I guess is if they feel like the market is leaving them behind, in that they feel they need some third party/core gamer support on the fringes.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,444
Yes but I assume the Tegra hack make OG switchers valuable to hackers and tinkerers. I will probably hold on to mine regardless
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,444
I just bought a phone with a Snapdragon 855 and 12GB RAM...

but it cost $750. And that's cheap. A Samsung S10 will run more like 1k with only 8GB ram.

299 phones (Switch) you aren't getting those specs. Then on top of that NIntendo has to pay for elaborate controllers and such.

Like I said though I can definitely see them doing an upclock/return to regular clocks.

About RAM, I could be mistaken but I think you're usually limited to multiples of 2. Since Switch is 4GB, a 6GB model is precluded. You can only do 8.

So Switch is doing 768/307.2 clocks. With better manufacturing and cooling, get that to 1ghz/500+mhz. That's a decent bump. The latter is a 62% bump undocked (course the 500 number is also pure random speculation on my part)

Again it's 299. AND Nintendo likes fat hardware profit margins. I could be wrong, but I just dont see any aggressive action from them. They cant go to 399, so they're stuck.

I guess if they just feel like they fell too far behind PS5 and XB2, such that they can no longer string along even bad ports like Witcher 3, they would have to redesign from the ground up IMO. BUT, they have zero incentive to do that. Nintendo is not interested in making 3rd parties lives easier, and they dont need power to sell their own games, which is what they really want to do. The only incentive I guess is if they feel like the market is leaving them behind, in that they feel they need some third party/core gamer support on the fringes.
Switch launched the same year as a Pixel phone using the same SoC. And the Pixel phone wasn't $299

A Switch pro can have a very powerful SoC comparatively because that's what a console is supposed to focus on. and we won't need 12 GB
8GB at most
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,637
I just bought a phone with a Snapdragon 855 and 12GB RAM...

but it cost $750. And that's cheap. A Samsung S10 will run more like 1k with only 8GB ram.

299 phones (Switch) you aren't getting those specs. Then on top of that NIntendo has to pay for elaborate controllers and such.

Like I said though I can definitely see them doing an upclock/return to regular clocks.

About RAM, I could be mistaken but I think you're usually limited to multiples of 2. Since Switch is 4GB, a 6GB model is precluded. You can only do 8.

So Switch is doing 768/307.2 clocks. With better manufacturing and cooling, get that to 1ghz/500+mhz. That's a decent bump. The latter is a 62% bump undocked (course the 500 number is also pure random speculation on my part)

Again it's 299. AND Nintendo likes fat hardware profit margins. I could be wrong, but I just dont see any aggressive action from them. They cant go to 399, so they're stuck.

I guess if they just feel like they fell too far behind PS5 and XB2, such that they can no longer string along even bad ports like Witcher 3, they would have to redesign from the ground up IMO. BUT, they have zero incentive to do that. Nintendo is not interested in making 3rd parties lives easier, and they dont need, power to sell their own games, which is what they really want to do. The only incentive I guess is if they feel like the market is leaving them behind, in that they feel they need some third party/core gamer support on the fringes.
Technology scales though, the Tegra X1 is ancient by now, it will be 5 years old next May. The Tegra X2 is better but even that is getting old now.

Nvidia can likely give Nintendo a newer Tegra processor (Mariko?) that runs circles around the TX1 at least and could run TX2 performance at full clock/full tilt without much of a cost increase these days.

Until your phone has an internal fan with like triple the overall chasis size, it likely will never be able to match what Nvidia can do in a Switch form factor.

It's just a matter of whether Nintendo wants that tech or not.

The main component costs on phones are the very high-end, high resolution screens and the cameras. Nintendo doesn't have need for either, 720p is plenty for portable gaming when you factor in lower pixels having to be rendered can mean higher fidelity visuals otherwise.

At 20nm it may actually cost Nintendo more to make the Tegra X1 than a more modern chip at 12nm.
 

shark97

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,356
Switch launched the same year as a Pixel phone using the same SoC. And the Pixel phone wasn't $299

A Switch pro can have a very powerful SoC comparatively because that's what a console is supposed to focus on. and we won't need 12 GB
8GB at most
but hardware wise phones and switch are similar and have to pay for similar things. A chipset, RAM, and a display principally.

You could go around on it, phones have to cram it into a small space and do a touch display (is Switch's?). But OTOH Nintendo has to pay for complex controllers and more plastic.

I get on forums, people always want more power, especially with Nintendo. People overrated how powerful Wii U was going to be so much. I remember people saying it would be closer to Xbox One than Xbox One was to PS4, or something.

People had all these theories about the GPU and were hyping up Wii U, I will forever remember some guy's comment "Nintendo, what are you building..."implying it was some huge secret monster. But everybody in the thread was doing that.

Oh well, I can be wrong, but I just dont see it. It is clear Nintendo likes to dink around with the hardware (new 3DS) so I think they'll upclock the Tegra at least.

But I'm still tired and disbelieving of these WSJ reports. Come out already!
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,991
299 phones (Switch) you aren't getting those specs. Then on top of that NIntendo has to pay for elaborate controllers and such.
For the same price and new efficient chips switch can offer better. PS4, for instance, launched a pro model for the same price as the PS4 launched at.
Not saying a massive leap is to be expected but you can definitely get better specs for the same price
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,444
but hardware wise phones and switch are similar and have to pay for similar things. A chipset, RAM, and a display principally.

You could go around on it, phones have to cram it into a small space and do a touch display (is Switch's?). But OTOH Nintendo has to pay for complex controllers and more plastic.

I get on forums, people always want more power, especially with Nintendo. People overrated how powerful Wii U was going to be so much. I remember people saying it would be closer to Xbox One than Xbox One was to PS4, or something.

People had all these theories about the GPU and were hyping up Wii U, I will forever remember some guy's comment "Nintendo, what are you building..."implying it was some huge secret monster. But everybody in the thread was doing that.

Oh well, I can be wrong, but I just dont see it. It is clear Nintendo likes to dink around with the hardware (new 3DS) so I think they'll upclock the Tegra at least.

But I'm still tired and disbelieving of these WSJ reports. Come out already!
It will have less premium parts that people associate with phones. Like no gorilla Glass no aluminum or mental trims but a $80 SoC is pretty much within the budget of a game console. That's what I mean by powerful SoC. The SoC is comparatively the most expensive component.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,686
Price comparisons are kind of pointless considering phones are sold at a high markup to generate revenue/profit whereas consoles are sold close to cost because selling software is more important.
 

chocnut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
98
E3 has come and gone and this crap hasn’t been shut down yet.

It’s like this thread:


Proof was there but no one wanted to admit it.
 
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Pancakes R Us

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,415
E3 has come and gone and it’s crap hasn’t been shut down yet.

It’s like this thread:


Proof was there but no one wanted to admit it.
HAhaha. I have bookedmarked one of your posts from earlier so I can pull it up when a Switch revision launches. I’m actually a bit suspicious and wondering if this are joke posts.

I do have to say though that SFGP was one of those rumours from one source but felt like everyone then claimed they also heard something just to jump on the bandwagon.
 

Pancakes R Us

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,415
E3 has come and gone and it’s crap hasn’t been shut down yet.

It’s like this thread:


Proof was there but no one wanted to admit it.
Also can you please tell us what the beef is that you have with WSJ? You mentioned earlier that you think they’re running these stories for more than just clicks. Can you please elaborate?
 

plebc

Member
Jan 7, 2018
671
Vita was more capable than iPhone 4S/iPad 2 when it launched with a similar 4-core GPU compared to 2-core GPU and more memory in total, yet people still doubt Nintendo and Nvidia. They can easily match more powerful mobile devices if they want.

HD Rumble (and other Joycon tech) might be expensive, but Vita also came with an OLED display and a touchpad.