WSJ: Nintendo to Launch Two New Switch Models. Premium "Enhanced" Model and Cheaper Portable Model.

What are you most excited for?

  • The more powerful model

    Votes: 4,343 67.8%
  • The more handheld model

    Votes: 599 9.4%
  • Both!

    Votes: 711 11.1%
  • Neither.

    Votes: 751 11.7%

  • Total voters
    6,404
Status
Not open for further replies.

Mr.Gamerson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
435
They're not adding a second screen to any switch.
3DS and DS emulation is probably possible, but Nintendo would have to find work arounds instead. Perhaps having them show up side by side, or pressing a button to switch between screens.


That being said, I wonder when/if they'll introduce wii/GCN games anytime soon. Perhaps will be one of the features showcased with the pro. The shield and NVIDIA's ports show the hardware is pretty capable of handling wii/GCN games in HD, so it'll be interesting if they can do even more with those. 1080p GCN games on the handheld would look pretty crisp
Oh man, that would be a great selling point for the Switch Pro that i completely forgot about. I thought the improved BC was a great way to incentivize upgrading to the Xbox One X as well.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,279
They're not adding a second screen to any switch.
3DS and DS emulation is probably possible, but Nintendo would have to find work arounds instead. Perhaps having them show up side by side, or pressing a button to switch between screens.
If they made the portable Switch with the ability to switch to TATE mode, it would essentially be like an original 2DS.

Would be an interesting way to really bring in former 3DS/2DS players to emulate those games on the Switch in some way.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,441
As someone who predominantly plays docked I'd love to see them make a version that doesn't come with a screen and the Joy Cons are separate device that don't connect to it. Basically I'd like to see something like an Apple TV, a small box with a power out and HDMI cable that'd be great for just throwing in a bag and taking on holiday with me or if I'm going to see my folks for a weekend.

At the minute I just take it minus the dock so I'm always playing in handheld mode. It's be great to have something small that I can quickly plug into a TV and off I go.
 

samthebreadman

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,807
I’ll likely never buy one of these now that I know my Switch is forever hackable. The homebrew stuff is just too good.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,660
Ok. Crazy idea time. This is actually something I thought they’d be pushing after the Wii U, but the hybrid model of the Switch was actually feasible. Now that it’s out and established, maybe they’ll go back and explore some of their crazier ideas.

What if the Switch Lite isn’t a fully functioning Switch? What if it’s the equivalent of a Wii U Gamepad? This would make it possible to keep the same form factor while being significantly cheaper and lighter. No need for a fan, a slew of chips, memory, and if it has built in controls, it could get rid of the IR, and a set of gyros and accelerometers (they actually can’t fully get rid of it as some have suggested - that would make parts of Zelda literally unplayable). The same battery would last much much longer as well.

Why? Well the concept around the Wii U that I liked was that you could have this base system and you’d know your kid could play it, but only within a given space. Also, if it broke, you weren’t replacing the whole thing. It’s a great idea for a kids device for around the house. Obviously this would have to initially be sold in tandem with a base system or something to enable the signal.

.....ok I already hate it, but I wrote it so whatever. Post.
 

ILikeFeet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,172
Yep, I've been thinking Turing might power the Switch's new chips, since it's already 12nm and Nvidia would want to push their newest tech onto the switch to influence devs.
By adopting Turing for Tegra, Nvidia opens up the door for two branches of Tegra chips. They already advertise the Jetson Nano for AI, so why not have a line that has the tensor cores as well? And a line without the Tensor cores for more traditional boards and the Switch Pro
 

Christo750

Member
May 10, 2018
1,628
Have there been any more videos of Switch games overclocked? In anticipation of the Pro I'm pretty curious to watch these.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,173
Yep, I've been thinking Turing might power the Switch's new chips, since it's already 12nm and Nvidia would want to push their newest tech onto the switch to influence devs.
It's not impossible, though it sort of goes against Nintendo's typical "the same thing but more/faster" philosophy with the chips in these sorts of revisions.

Of course, they've also never done one of these revisions with a non-exotic GPU, so maybe this time will be different.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,614
To try and avoid another WUST, if it sounds like more than a safe upgrade for a mid cycle refresh from nintendo, it's probably not happening.
 

jdstorm

Member
Jan 6, 2018
3,303
Re empty space on a potential Clamshell Switch mini.

I think Nintendo would seriously think about adding a touchpad and stylus. It would be great for games with creative tools like Mario Maker and bringing any traditional handheld games onto the system that players of the DS/3DS have liked. All just depends on cost.

As for the Chip. I could see it going one of two ways

1. Standard off the shelf X2 since not being on 20nm is better for TMSC.

2. A high tech cutting edge custom but conventional chip that Nvidia is giving them a good deal on because Nvidia have a reputation to maintain and with next gen coming very soon and new phones/tablets releasing every year they don’t want to be seen as being left behind.

Probably the TegraRTX since Nvidia is so keen on Ray tracing right now. A system that’s essentially a portable PS4 with dedicated ray tracing hardware seems like a pipe dream, However in the past Nintendo has been willing to use cutting edge tech (3DS Screen ect) when it provided a tangible benefit.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
It's not impossible, though it sort of goes against Nintendo's typical "the same thing but more/faster" philosophy with the chips in these sorts of revisions.

Of course, they've also never done one of these revisions with a non-exotic GPU, so maybe this time will be different.
Wii U did it actually, but because those consoles built their code on a low level just above the metal, they required a huge investment and custom hardware. You can drop Turing into a Switch APU with a newer ARM CPU and have no issues at all, because NVN is based on a hardware agnostic API.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,713
Re empty space on a potential Clamshell Switch mini.

I think Nintendo would seriously think about adding a touchpad and stylus. It would be great for games with creative tools like Mario Maker and bringing any traditional handheld games onto the system that players of the DS/3DS have liked. All just depends on cost.

As for the Chip. I could see it going one of two ways

1. Standard off the shelf X2 since not being on 20nm is better for TMSC.

2. A high tech cutting edge custom but conventional chip that Nvidia is giving them a good deal on because Nvidia have a reputation to maintain and with next gen coming very soon and new phones/tablets releasing every year they don’t want to be seen as being left behind.

Probably the TegraRTX since Nvidia is so keen on Ray tracing right now. A system that’s essentially a portable PS4 with dedicated ray tracing hardware seems like a pipe dream, However in the past Nintendo has been willing to use cutting edge tech (3DS Screen ect) when it provided a tangible benefit.
Or option 3) a custom solution that's not cutting edge but also not an "off the shelf" existing chip even if it might resemble one. Which in all likelihood is probably what Mariko is.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
Or option 3) a custom solution that's not cutting edge but also not an "off the shelf" existing chip even if it might resemble one. Which in all likelihood is probably what Mariko is.
Sounds like it's based on Turing, Nvidia doesn't have async compute before that and if it's based on Turing, which was developed alongside this chip, it would also have variable shaders, this could be a pretty big moment for Nintendo hardware, almost a return to GameCube era of new technologies keeping up with much more power hungry devices, not saying it would match up to the current mid gen refreshes, but it should be similar in performance with the current base consoles, which honestly should be expected with next gen consoles coming next year.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
By adopting Turing for Tegra, Nvidia opens up the door for two branches of Tegra chips. They already advertise the Jetson Nano for AI, so why not have a line that has the tensor cores as well? And a line without the Tensor cores for more traditional boards and the Switch Pro
That's been my thinking for a while, Gaming Tegra and AI Tegra, even joked about calling this Tegra chip X3.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,713
Sounds like it's based on Turing, Nvidia doesn't have async compute before that and if it's based on Turing, which was developed alongside this chip, it would also have variable shaders, this could be a pretty big moment for Nintendo hardware, almost a return to GameCube era of new technologies keeping up with much more power hungry devices, not saying it would match up to the current mid gen refreshes, but it should be similar in performance with the current base consoles, which honestly should be expected with next gen consoles coming next year.
Turing isn't even a year old and we've known about Mariko for longer than that. I'd be pretty surprised if the dual revisions used a Turing chip tbh.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
Turing isn't even a year old and we've known about Mariko for longer than that. I'd be pretty surprised if the dual revisions used a Turing chip tbh.
Turing was in the same state or more mature than Mariko when Mariko popped up last spring.

Beyond something newer or a completely new architecture (which Nintendo hasn't ever done in the GPU side and not sure Nvidia would even be interested in making an entirely custom architecture) there is no other options for a Switch with Async compute from Nvidia.
 

Hermii

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,441
Re empty space on a potential Clamshell Switch mini.

I think Nintendo would seriously think about adding a touchpad and stylus. It would be great for games with creative tools like Mario Maker and bringing any traditional handheld games onto the system that players of the DS/3DS have liked. All just depends on cost.

As for the Chip. I could see it going one of two ways

1. Standard off the shelf X2 since not being on 20nm is better for TMSC.

2. A high tech cutting edge custom but conventional chip that Nvidia is giving them a good deal on because Nvidia have a reputation to maintain and with next gen coming very soon and new phones/tablets releasing every year they don’t want to be seen as being left behind.

Probably the TegraRTX since Nvidia is so keen on Ray tracing right now. A system that’s essentially a portable PS4 with dedicated ray tracing hardware seems like a pipe dream, However in the past Nintendo has been willing to use cutting edge tech (3DS Screen ect) when it provided a tangible benefit.
I would add a third option here:

3: Customized 12nm chip not using the latest tech, more tailored towards Nintendo’s needs.

Something like the tx2 gpu, coupled with a72/ a55 cores cutting removing all the blocks/ features that would be in an off the shelf design but not needed from Nintendo. Basically our dream scenario for the base switch, but coming two years late.

I do think this is a likely option.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,713
Turing was in the same state or more mature than Mariko when Mariko popped up last spring.
We don't even know what Mariko is exactly, we can't really speculate on it's degree of maturity. Turing would be a leap that generally falls outside Nintendo's track record for revisions though. That seems more along the lines of what to expect for a successor platform.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,173
Wii U did it actually, but because those consoles built their code on a low level just above the metal, they required a huge investment and custom hardware. You can drop Turing into a Switch APU with a newer ARM CPU and have no issues at all, because NVN is based on a hardware agnostic API.
I was specifically referring to revisions there. The Wii U never got a revision.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
We don't even know what Mariko is exactly, we can't really speculate on it's degree of maturity. Turing would be a leap that generally falls outside Nintendo's track record for revisions though. That seems more along the lines of what to expect for a successor platform.
It's never been possible before, as I explained in an early post. Nintendo tells Nvidia they want x performance for x price and Nvidia gives them options, if Nintendo has Async Compute in the new Switch, which I'm only basing on their job posting, it has to be Turing, there is no other reasonable option.
I was specifically referring to revisions there. The Wii U never got a revision.
Nintendo always used original hardware for backwards compatibility, Wii U used an entirely new GPU Architecture to run Wii games, from a technical standpoint that is what we are talking about them doing here, except with wii to wii u it was messy because everything was coded at the hardware level, but Switch software is hardware agnostic.
 

kirbyfan407

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,713
Sorry, I'm just catching up on the thread. What makes people now think the chip has asynchronous compute and therefore will be a Turing chip?

EDIT: Nevermind, I now see the post above mine references a job posting.
 

JoshuaJSlone

Member
Dec 27, 2017
202
How crazy does the idea of a Nintendo Switch DS with a clamshell design and 3DS/DS emulation or native BC sound? If something like this is possible, how much do you think Nintendo would charge for something like this ? My guess is $199.99
Very crazy. System revisions tend to ditch BC in later revisions to cut costs and because it's no longer seen as important. PS3, Wii, GBA, DS. Adding it later is I think unheard of? Especially if it's a new, significantly cheaper model.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,713
It's never been possible before, as I explained in an early post. Nintendo tells Nvidia they want x performance for x price and Nvidia gives them options, if Nintendo has Async Compute in the new Switch, which I'm only basing on their job posting, it has to be Turing, there is no other reasonable option.
Larger jumps than what they've done has always certainly been possible. Nintendo revisions tend to focus on feature upgrades and the architecture revisions are always in service to that primairily. I'm not expecting Mariko to be radically different and my guess would be that job listing also entails engineering for future devices. Turing is more likely for Switch 2 than for Switch Plus/Mini imo.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
Larger jumps than what they've done has always certainly been possible. Nintendo revisions tend to focus on feature upgrades and the architecture revisions are always in service to that primairily. I'm not expecting Mariko to be radically different and my guess would be that job listing also entails engineering for future devices. Turing is more likely for Switch 2 than for Switch Plus/Mini imo.
It doesn't change the performance range, just the feature upgrades you are talking about. This is also the first device coming out of new management, which makes past history irrelevant, because previous management's last console was the GameCube.

But yeah 800-900gflops is still the expected high range, whether it's pascal or Turing, we are talking about the differences between gtx 1070 and gtx 1660 here.

There is another aspect here, Turing would actually be cheaper, since it's already designed on 12nm and the timing lines up, they'd be making a custom Tegra chip either way, but one they can just drop Turing into, the other has minor customizations for 12nm with pascal.
 
Last edited:

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,713
It doesn't change the performance range, just the feature upgrades you are talking about. This is also the first device coming out of new management, which makes past history irrelevant, because previous management's last console was the GameCube.

But yeah 800-900gflops is still the expected high range, whether it's pascal or Turing, we are talking about the differences between gtx 1070 and gtx 1660 here.
Nintendo's had multiple management changeovers and departmental reorgs historically since getting into consumer video games and Gamecube actually preceeded the previous regime too. None of that is irrelevant though since their design ethos has retained some consistency anyway. Until we have good reason to believe that's fundamentally changed I don't think there's really much rationale for drawing a clear line in the sand now. Not based on a job posting.

When I talk feature upgrades too I'm referring to things like adding a color screen, wireless communication, a digital software initiative, a camera, better security, additional controls, faster OS/loading, better 3D through face/eye tracking, etc. Nintendo's approach is to improving user experience with upgrades and the things I can reasonably see Mariko bearing out for that (improved battery life, improved performance in existing software, additional recording/streaming options, shrinking device footprint, reducing cost, etc) don't really benefit with a jump to Turing. Revisions aren't where Nintendo looks to bleeding edge shifts, on the rare occasions they do bleeding edge at all. Don't fall in the WUST hole.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
Nintendo's had multiple management changeovers and departmental reorgs historically since getting into consumer video games and Gamecube actually preceeded the previous regime too. None of that is irrelevant though since their design ethos has retained some consistency anyway. Until we have good reason to believe that's fundamentally changed I don't think there's really much rationale for drawing a clear line in the sand now. Not based on a job posting.

When I talk feature upgrades too I'm referring to things like adding a color screen, wireless communication, a digital software initiative, a camera, better security, additional controls, faster OS/loading, better 3D through face/eye tracking, etc. Nintendo's approach is to improving user experience with upgrades and the things I can reasonably see Mariko bearing out for that (improved battery life, improved performance in existing software, additional recording/streaming options, shrinking device footprint, reducing cost, etc) don't really benefit with a jump to Turing. Revisions aren't where Nintendo looks to bleeding edge shifts, on the rare occasions they do bleeding edge at all. Don't fall in the WUST hole.
The difference between Nintendo hardware expectations and other companies, would be where I'm speculating 12nm with twice as much performance, vs 7nm 1.5TF to 2TFLOPs.

I just don't see the "Big Jump" you are talking about with Turing, features wise it's newer, but so is Pascal, if the job posting says async compute required, that suggests Turing, since Pascal doesn't have that feature. It doesn't change the world.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
Spain
The difference between Nintendo hardware expectations and other companies, would be where I'm speculating 12nm with twice as much performance, vs 7nm 1.5TF to 2TFLOPs.

I just don't see the "Big Jump" you are talking about with Turing, features wise it's newer, but so is Pascal, if the job posting says async compute required, that suggests Turing, since Pascal doesn't have that feature. It doesn't change the world.
There's no way 7nm can get 1.5 or 2 TFLOPs at the power Switch uses, just like there is no way 12nm can get 800GFLOPs at the power Switch uses. We already have Tegra Parker as proof of that.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,363
The mini switch isn't being introduced to lower the switch price, it's being introduced to sell something to 3ds owners. The Switch Mini being discussed in the articles say specifically that it's not just a smaller handheld only switch, but a new surprising form factor. They aren't selling you a cheaper switch for 179-199, they are selling you a new handheld not like the switch, that plays switch software.
How is a new handheld now like the switch, that plays switch software - not a cheaper switch? Aren’t we arguing semantics at this point?

If it plays switch games and is cheaper than the switch - then it’s a switch introduces to lower the price of entry




If we’re thinking outside the box - could they do a cheap portable switch with a 3DS cart slot to help 3DS/2DS users migrate?
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
How is a new handheld now like the switch, that plays switch software - not a cheaper switch? Aren’t we arguing semantics at this point?

If it plays switch games and is cheaper than the switch - then it’s a switch introduces to lower the price of entry




If we’re thinking outside the box - could they do a cheap portable switch with a 3DS cart slot to help 3DS/2DS users migrate?
Because a switch is a hybrid console, it has 3 play modes, offers Multiplayer and has 2 performance modes. It shouldn't be unreasonable to say that part of the reason switch is a success, is because of the play anywhere and however you want, aspect of the device. That core feature that makes up the switch isn't being offered at $179 or $199.

Adding 3ds components would be expensive, adding at least $40 to the price, then there is the second screen and how they would solve that issue. It's just not likely.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,614
Because a switch is a hybrid console, it has 3 play modes, offers Multiplayer and has 2 performance modes. It shouldn't be unreasonable to say that part of the reason switch is a success, is because of the play anywhere and however you want, aspect of the device. That core feature that makes up the switch isn't being offered at $179 or $199.

Adding 3ds components would be expensive, adding at least $40 to the price, then there is the second screen and how they would solve that issue. It's just not likely.
A 3DS cart/native BC is unnecessary and likely too costly. Virtual Console, or whatever new alternative they're going to use on Switch would be preferable.

That being said, I imagine a switch lite would still be a switch without a dock. 3DS showed there was still a market for cheap handhelds; as an additional pillar the Switch lite will sell really well.
For users that wanted to try Switch before thinking about upgrading, they can invest in a dock+joy con to have the same experience, perhaps Nintendo can facilitate it.

For users that want a premium experience, the Switch Pro will be there
 

bmfrosty

Member
Oct 27, 2017
627
SF Bay Area
If we're still talking about 12nm, then I see no reason to use Pascal over Volta or Turing. Pascal will require a die shrink. If we're talking Volta or Turing, they're both already 12nm. For Turing there's already a designed block that excludes RT and Tensor cores. For Volta they'd have to strip out the Tensor cores.
 

ShadowFox08

Member
Nov 25, 2017
2,019
I dunno. I'm not too optimistic about us getting a 12nm Turing.

With the Magic VR headset confirmed to use Tegra X2, I feel like this sort of puts more weight into Tegra X2 being likely for switch. We'll see if the Nvidia shield model this year will have a hardware upgrade as well, and if it does, I would be surprised if Switch didn't have something similar.

Could Nintendo and Nvidia go for something unexpected and more custom? Probably. But I'm not betting on it. I think a modified Tegra X2 is got to be the most realistic thing we can expect.
 

Tron1

Member
Dec 23, 2017
5,175
So I have been playing the switch a lot and thinking about it. I know the X1 is fairly modern and all but man.... is there any way Nintendo and Nvidia could have customized the chip in the switch and it still looks the way it does? Everyone assumes it’s of the shelf X1 but the switch is getting some impressive games running on that lock clocked system. Either way I can say I’m thoroughly impressed with switch from a technical standpoint. I think based on the rumor they are doing exactly what they need to do. Create a smaller cheaper entry point switch that is kid proof. Upgrade the original switch to a pro model and let the original sale/phase out. There can keep there devs under one house making games for basically one system. It easy and common sense. I hope they keep moving forward with this model. I am looking forward big time to the pro. I hope Nvidia and Nintendo really understand what they have and what amazing success they can have with the switch.
 

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,349
.
I dunno. I'm not too optimistic about us getting a 12nm Turing.

With the Magic VR headset confirmed to use Tegra X2, I feel like this sort of puts more weight into Tegra X2 being likely for switch. We'll see if the Nvidia shield model this year will have a hardware upgrade as well, and if it does, I would be surprised if Switch didn't have something similar.

Could Nintendo and Nvidia go for something unexpected and more custom? Probably. But I'm not betting on it. I think a modified Tegra X2 is got to be the most realistic thing we can expect.
The MagicLeap One is both big and expensive. I'm still of the opinion that Mariko is little more than a die-shrunk X1 with some slight modifications.

The Switch Mini will offer similar performance to the current Switch but with lower power consumption (and with a more limited design and lower price). The revised ("enhanced") Switch will have the same die-shrunk X1 but with higher clocks for somewhat improved performance (somewhere between the difference between docked vs undocked and Xbox One S vs original Xbox One) and will be a drop-in replacement for the existing Switch.

That's my take, job posting notwithstanding.
 

bmfrosty

Member
Oct 27, 2017
627
SF Bay Area
You've got to ask yourself, what is Nvidia going to sell Nintendo? What are they going to charge Nintendo per unit? They only get one try at this every 3 years or so at best, and they part will remain the same for 3 years as well.

Why wouldn't they put out their best? Especially if it costs on par with other things to manufacture. Give Nintendo the best product at the best price and it's showcasing your work.
 

ILikeFeet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,172
You've got to ask yourself, what is Nvidia going to sell Nintendo? What are they going to charge Nintendo per unit? They only get one try at this every 3 years or so at best, and they part will remain the same for 3 years as well.

Why wouldn't they put out their best? Especially if it costs on par with other things to manufacture. Give Nintendo the best product at the best price and it's showcasing your work.
Nvidia also would want to sell this product to other customers. and when those customers' options include a bevy of Qualcomm chips, I think Nvidia will make something that's closer to comparable than just an X2
 
Status
Not open for further replies.