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WSJ: Nintendo to Launch Two New Switch Models. Premium "Enhanced" Model and Cheaper Portable Model.

What are you most excited for?

  • The more powerful model

    Votes: 3,380 68.0%
  • The more handheld model

    Votes: 419 8.4%
  • Both!

    Votes: 587 11.8%
  • Neither.

    Votes: 583 11.7%

  • Total voters
    4,969
Nov 25, 2017
1,446
^^i think absolute lowest is 480p for current handheld specs. And then current docked/handheld switch pro = 720p, and switch pro docked = 1080p.

We already have 3rd party games running 400-500p games on handheld.

They don't always have to cut back on resolution either. They could halve framerate or cut down on graphical fidelity.
 
Jun 17, 2018
438
I don’t know if 2.25x is guaranteed, but i think the major thing that needs addressing is the bandwidth issue that keeps switch 720p handheld games from being 1080p docked.

Yoshi seems like kind of a disaster for a game that was delayed a year.
I’m not sure if it’s just using an older version of UE4, but it’s pretty disappointing and I’m probably going to wait till the pro to consider getting it.
See, that's where you're talking based off of numbers. It doesn't even look bad, it looks great actually, even in handheld mode I haven't questioned the res at all. If anything it looks higher res, the AA solution has done a great job.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,513
Think a decent amount of developers will release patches to take advantage of a Switch Pro or most will just focus on other projects???
Probably not. A lot of titles were outsourced so publishers won’t be paying outsourced studios add support.
Hopefully a lot of titles will have upgrades just by playing it on the latest system with no input from developers.

I do see Bethesda’s games like doom and Wolfenstein getting patches, tho
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,843
What do you guys think is the lowest acceptable performance/graphics/resolution in handheld mode third parties will target to be able to justify a switch gen 1 and switch pro port of their AAA current gen games ?

Do you think they will be willing to let their games look and perform as bad as games like Ark and WWE 2K on the base switch in order to justify a more playable and competent game on switch pro or will they will forgo the base Switch all together and push for Nintendo to allow them to release the game for the switch Pro only?

I assume it would be more beneficial to target as many switch systems as possible even if it means the base switch has to compromise the game so much so that it may negatively damage the developers reputation. Considering Ark and WWE 2k passed certification and were allowed to be released, i think most devs will take this route if they have to instead of going Switch Pro only.
certification doesn't mean that. it just means it won't break the system.

and if we're talking about the current level of support, then they'll go as low as they want. we already have sub-480p games. if you want better support? then Nintendo has to put out a PS4+ level console in portable mode
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,096
Yoshi is one of those games that hide well the fact that they are quite low-rez. The game looks great and is smooth. It is noticeable blurry only on the map.

Another game that hide very well its resolution is Octopath (another UE4 game !) that is topping 720p in docked mode (while being at 30fps) and 1024x576 in handheld.
How are they achieving it with such low native res? I'm sure DF said Yoshi had no AA too.

Also Dark1x Is there a full Yoshi DF coming?
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,070
Las Vegas
On the topic of exclusives, at most I feel like Nintendo won’t take a hard stance prohibiting developers to do it. Both Sony and MS said they have to be on the base hardware meaning ps5 launch window games would likely be held back by PS4 instead of being ps4 pro+ps5.

Nintendo might transition to a more mobile like generational cycle, each console is supported for 4 years or so meaning for the first 4 years all games need to be on the original switch, after switch 2 comes out they can allow games to be switch pro and switch 2, etc
This is kind of what I expect ... there will be a cutoff eventually
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,139
On the topic of exclusives, at most I feel like Nintendo won’t take a hard stance prohibiting developers to do it. Both Sony and MS said they have to be on the base hardware meaning ps5 launch window games would likely be held back by PS4 instead of being ps4 pro+ps5.

Nintendo might transition to a more mobile like generational cycle, each console is supported for 4 years or so meaning for the first 4 years all games need to be on the original switch, after switch 2 comes out they can allow games to be switch pro and switch 2, etc
Well more like ~6 years of support, since the spring 2017 for the current model, with the Switch pro 2 coming out sometime after fall 2022 starts, going forward another 3 years to fall 2025, would give this next Switch Pro support until that time.

Another thing to consider is they can extend this support by increasing the portable clocks to the docked clocks, as each new switch model should inherit the previous model's docked performance as it's portable performance. All current Switch models people own can hit the docked clock on the Tegra X1, this isn't by accident, it's actually built into the form factor, what I mean is because the dock charges the battery and allows the system to play games, there is plenty of head room to not charge the battery and have the screen on instead.

Since the form factor has a low tdp of 18watts and the battery charges at 5 watts, meanwhile the screen will only use about ~2 watts, there is plenty of extra room to run the current Switch and in fact all future switch devices with the same form factor, at their higher docked clocks.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,201
Of those 3, the first is the most obvious answer. It's (relatively) cheap to design, could be multiuse between a more portable and 'pro' model (focusing more on the power savings in the former, and the higher clock rates in the latter), and it would be guaranteed to be 100% compatible with existing software.

I still think it's the absolute most likely option period, only two years into this gen of switch I just don't think the people expecting an entire architecture shift or a 2-4x power increase are very realistic.
I’m leaning towards die shrunk x1 myself. When they are doing work on the chip either way, I think it’s likely they’re doing a minor modification or two, but probably nothing major. If it doesn’t cause comparability issues I think a cpu upgrade to a7x makes sense, and upgrading to a setup that lets them use the little and big cores simultaneously. Double bandwidth would be super nice as well. But I do think just a die shrink and that’s all is definitely possible as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,139
I’m leaning towards die shrunk x1 myself. When they are doing work on the chip either way, I think it’s likely they’re doing a minor modification or two, but probably nothing major. If it doesn’t cause comparability issues I think a cpu upgrade to a7x makes sense, and upgrading to a setup that lets them use the little and big cores simultaneously. Double bandwidth would be super nice as well. But I do think just a die shrink and that’s all is definitely possible as well.
I find it unlikely that they would continue to use Maxwell. Nvidia doesn't make custom hardware for people, they just offer stuff they've already created to partners. It's unlikely they would shrink Maxwell to 16nm, 12nm or 7nm... In Nvidia's mind, they've already created graphics architectures on those nodes, so they have no desire to back track and do it again. Pascal is on 16nm, and 12nm is very similar so they might use Pascal for it, since it's still based on the 16nm node. The reason I'm thinking Turing is also possible is just because it's already 12nm and Pascal has been around in Tegra for 3 years, this year we should see Turing and Nvidia would offer it to Nintendo for the same or even lower price IMO. (no work to bring the architecture down to 12nm here).
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,201
I find it unlikely that they would continue to use Maxwell. Nvidia doesn't make custom hardware for people, they just offer stuff they've already created to partners. It's unlikely they would shrink Maxwell to 16nm, 12nm or 7nm... In Nvidia's mind, they've already created graphics architectures on those nodes, so they have no desire to back track and do it again. Pascal is on 16nm, and 12nm is very similar so they might use Pascal for it, since it's still based on the 16nm node. The reason I'm thinking Turing is also possible is just because it's already 12nm and Pascal has been around in Tegra for 3 years, this year we should see Turing and Nvidia would offer it to Nintendo for the same or even lower price IMO. (no work to bring the architecture down to 12nm here).
I hope you’re right :) we’ll find out very soon I think.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,227
If people are curious, here's Nintendo's 1st party track record (US releases only) for arcitecture enhanced/exclusive software for their past revisions:

Game Boy Color enhanced
  • Tetris DX (Nintendo R&D1)
  • Game & Watch Gallery 2 (Tose Software)
  • Pocket Bomberman (Hudson Soft)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX (Nintendo R&D2)
  • Quest for Camelot (Titus Interactive)
  • Wario Land II (Nintendo R&D1)
  • Shadowgate Classic (Infinite Ventures)
  • Bugs Bunny: Crazy Castle 3 (Kemco)
  • Pokémon Pinball (Jupiter)
  • Conker's Pocket Tales (Rare) *contains both native DMG and CGB versions on 1 cart
  • R-Type DX (Bits Studios)
  • Disney's Beauty and the Beast: A Board Game Adventure (Leftfield Productions)
  • Pokémon Yellow Version: Special Pikachu Edition (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • NBA 3 on 3 Featuring Kobe Bryant (Leftfield Productions)
  • Game & Watch Gallery 3 (Tose Software)
  • Pokémon Trading Card Game (Hudson Soft)
  • Pokémon Gold / Silver Version (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • Hamtaro: Ham-Hams Unite! (Pax Softnica)
Game Boy Color exclusive
  • Super Mario Bros. Deluxe (Nintendo R&D2)
  • Ken Griffey Jr.'s Slugfest (Software Creations)
  • Mario Golf (Camelot Software Planning)
  • Mickey's Racing Adventure (Rare)
  • Star Wars: Episode I: Racer (Pax Softnica)
  • Bionic Commando: Elite Forces (Nintendo Software Technology)
  • Wario Land 3 (Nintendo R&D1)
  • Crystalis (Nintendo Software Technology)
  • Warlocked (Bits Studios)
  • The Little Mermaid II: Pinball Frenzy (Leftfield Productions)
  • Alice in Wonderland (Digital Eclipse)
  • Donkey Kong Country (Rare)
  • Pokémon Puzzle Challenge (Intelligent Systems)
  • Mario Tennis (Camelot Software Planning)
  • Mickey's Speedway USA (Rare)
  • Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble (HAL Laboratory)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages / Seasons (Capcom, Flagship)
  • Pokémon Crystal Version (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
Nintendo DSi enhanced
  • Art Academy (Headstrong Games)
  • Mario Vs. Donkey Kong: Mini-Land Mayhem (Nintendo Software Technology)
  • Pokémon Black / White Version (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • Fossil Fighters: Champions (Red Entertainment, M2, ArtDink)
  • Pokémon Conquest (Koei Tecmo)
  • Pokémon Black / White Version 2 (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
Nintendo DSi exclusive
  • all DSiWare (Various) 82 releases
New Nintendo 3DS enhanced
  • Streetpass Mii Plaza (Various)
  • Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS (Sora, Bandai Namco Studios)
  • Code Name S.T.E.A.M. (Intelligent Systems)
  • Chibi-Robo: Zip Lash (Skip)
  • Hyrule Warriors Legends (Omega Force, Koei Tecmo)
  • Stetchmo (Intelligent Systems)
  • Nintendo Badge Arcade (Nintendo SPD)
  • Pokémon Sun / Moon (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS (Nintendo Software Technology)
  • Poochy & Yoshi's Wooly World (Good-Feel)
  • Pokémon Ultra Sun / Moon (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • might be more, info is spotty at best
New Nintendo 3DS exclusive
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 3D (Monster Games)
  • Fire Emblem Warriors (Omega Force, Team Ninja)
  • all Super NES Virtual Console (Various) 30 releases
 
Oct 25, 2017
179
that relates to a question I've been thinking about. could Nvidia fit enough RT cores onto tegra to do mild functions like AO and reflections? maybe at 7nm?
It's tricky to say, as (a) I don't actually know how big the RT cores are (might be able to work it out through comparisons with Volta, though), and (b) it's hard to compare current PC RT performance (which is devs' earliest attempts with the tech, and isn't likely to have received much development resources, given the small user base) with the more mature, more optimised implementation you'd get on a console (particularly as first party games would likely devote a lot more dev resources to it than we've got for PC thus far).

Just to pull a hypothetical off the top of my head, though, let's consider what Nintendo might get if they decided the entire focus of the new Switch model is ray tracing (and they're willing to pay for a 7nm chip to achieve it). The 7nm node is about double the density of 20nm, so they could double the GPU from 256 to 512 cores in a similar sized die, but let's say they stick with 256 compute cores (at increased clocks), and instead use that space up for RT cores.

The standard configuration of RT cores in Turing would put them at 4 RT cores for 256 compute cores, but let's say they managed to push that up to 16 (for reference, RTX 2060 has 30). That'd be perhaps a third the performance of RTX 2060 taking clock speeds into account.

Talented devs could probably get usable RT performance out of that, with some decent ray-traced reflections or shadows. Assuming sub-1080p and simpler geometry than the average PC game you might even be able to squeeze global illumination in one or two games. Something like Luigi's Mansion or Captain Toad would work well, as they're confined to a single small area at a time, which would make ray tracing a hell of a lot more efficient than big open games like Metro Exodus.

That said, if Nintendo were to pay for a 7nm die a similar size to the TX1 they'd be giving up a lot of performance by dedicating that much die area to RT. A 512 core 7nm Turing GPU should be able to comfortably sit with XBO and PS4 in performance in docked mode, whereas with 256 cores they'd still be trailing behind (although whether Nintendo care about matching XBO/PS4 is another question).

I know it won't happen, but ideally I'd like to see Nintendo release a dedicated home console next year which is basically "match PS5/XB4 at 1080p, but with ray-tracing". They could basically bolt 8 A76 cores to an RTX 2060 (or Ampere equivalent) on 7nm and get a really nice home console without breaking the bank. Not really something that matches Nintendo's MO at the moment, though, which is a shame.
 
Nov 8, 2017
2,750
Fwiw recent analysis (not necessarily rigorous or professional) put RT and Tensor cores taking up ~10-11% of the die space on Turing GPUs. On a mobile sized die such a percentage would yield us something useless for practical ray tracing, imo, and thinking about adding a useful amount of cores would be eating like 30% or more and that's just not practical.

Also note that depending on the game, the rasterization can be the limiting factor in RT performance. Like Battlefield V for instance. There's a bunch of regular compute that is needed before and after the rays are bounced to make it work.
 
Oct 31, 2017
472
The only thing that makes me a bit more certain that Nintendo is going to bring a better switch out is VR. If you had a better resolution (even though what Nintendo for Labo is almost magical) the Vr clarity would be so much better. I feel that Nintendo's next move could be to bring more 1st party to Labo and in time go full on VR. I also think that 3ds games could be made into full VR with a much higher resolution solution for switch.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,513
The only thing that makes me a bit more certain that Nintendo is going to bring a better switch out is VR. If you had a better resolution (even though what Nintendo for Labo is almost magical) the Vr clarity would be so much better. I feel that Nintendo's next move could be to bring more 1st party to Labo and in time go full on VR. I also think that 3ds games could be made into full VR with a much higher resolution solution for switch.
I thought about that too, the issue would be battery life and that it would probably be better for most users if it was just 720p with most game hitting native instead of rarely hitting native.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,139
It's tricky to say, as (a) I don't actually know how big the RT cores are (might be able to work it out through comparisons with Volta, though), and (b) it's hard to compare current PC RT performance (which is devs' earliest attempts with the tech, and isn't likely to have received much development resources, given the small user base) with the more mature, more optimised implementation you'd get on a console (particularly as first party games would likely devote a lot more dev resources to it than we've got for PC thus far).

Just to pull a hypothetical off the top of my head, though, let's consider what Nintendo might get if they decided the entire focus of the new Switch model is ray tracing (and they're willing to pay for a 7nm chip to achieve it). The 7nm node is about double the density of 20nm, so they could double the GPU from 256 to 512 cores in a similar sized die, but let's say they stick with 256 compute cores (at increased clocks), and instead use that space up for RT cores.

The standard configuration of RT cores in Turing would put them at 4 RT cores for 256 compute cores, but let's say they managed to push that up to 16 (for reference, RTX 2060 has 30). That'd be perhaps a third the performance of RTX 2060 taking clock speeds into account.

Talented devs could probably get usable RT performance out of that, with some decent ray-traced reflections or shadows. Assuming sub-1080p and simpler geometry than the average PC game you might even be able to squeeze global illumination in one or two games. Something like Luigi's Mansion or Captain Toad would work well, as they're confined to a single small area at a time, which would make ray tracing a hell of a lot more efficient than big open games like Metro Exodus.

That said, if Nintendo were to pay for a 7nm die a similar size to the TX1 they'd be giving up a lot of performance by dedicating that much die area to RT. A 512 core 7nm Turing GPU should be able to comfortably sit with XBO and PS4 in performance in docked mode, whereas with 256 cores they'd still be trailing behind (although whether Nintendo care about matching XBO/PS4 is another question).

I know it won't happen, but ideally I'd like to see Nintendo release a dedicated home console next year which is basically "match PS5/XB4 at 1080p, but with ray-tracing". They could basically bolt 8 A76 cores to an RTX 2060 (or Ampere equivalent) on 7nm and get a really nice home console without breaking the bank. Not really something that matches Nintendo's MO at the moment, though, which is a shame.
The RTX 2060 is 445mm^2 on 12nm (same density as 16nm and 20nm) 7nm is 0.384 times the size according to TSMC's process, that means on 7nm perfectly shrunk, would yield a 171mm^2 size, the Tegra X1 is 121mm^2 but of course is a SoC, not just a GPU. Still that is a 1920 Cuda core part with 48ROPs and 240 tensor cores, as well as the 30RT cores you mentioned.

If they went with a different configuration, they could probably keep those tensor and rt cores with maybe 1024 Cuda cores on 7nm, however... Ray Tracing isn't something that will be mandatory this upcoming generation because far too few devices will be truly capable of it and we've yet to see AMD's solution.

I personally think Ray Tracing should only be available via a 4K enhanced dock / stand alone console. It's a much more balanced approach and can focus the performance of a device with this form factor in traditional rendering, offering more performance, more compatibility and less power consumption.
 

RPGamer

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,102
Yoshi is one of those games that hide well the fact that they are quite low-rez. The game looks great and is smooth. It is noticeable blurry only on the map.

Another game that hide very well its resolution is Octopath (another UE4 game !) that is topping 720p in docked mode (while being at 30fps) and 1024x576 in handheld.

Honestly i noticed the resolution differences between the starting screen "gameplaymovie" and the resolution while playing Octopath from the beginning. It could be a lot sharper. It still looks beautiful and i would say the same thing about Yoshi, but both could be vastly improved.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,513
Had a bit of an idea, what if the Switch lite and the Switch pro have the same specs?
Might be cheaper to just produce one SoC going forward instead of two different ones.
The difference being no dock and no detachable joy con. Could be $249 vs $300?

Nintendo would presumably want people to have better hardware going forward.
I guess the issue would be that $250 isn't a very big cut but $200 seems too cheap? Might cause issues with xbox one and ps4 likely getting cuts this year
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,117
Had a bit of an idea, what if the Switch lite and the Switch pro have the same specs?
Exact same specs? Nah, but same SoC? I could definitely see it. Both could use a die shrink of the current X1 and you could use that on both with ease. Especially since a big point of bottlenecking is memory bandwidth on the Switch. The easiest way to expand memory bandwidth is to double the amount of chips. Thus, you could have a 4GB portable console with a lower power envelope, and an 8GB prosumer console which could be clocked higher, have more ram, and double the memory bandwidth.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,746
Yoshi is one of those games that hide well the fact that they are quite low-rez. The game looks great and is smooth. It is noticeable blurry only on the map.

Another game that hide very well its resolution is Octopath (another UE4 game !) that is topping 720p in docked mode (while being at 30fps) and 1024x576 in handheld.
I mean... they're both noticeably less clean looking than a native 1080p game when docked. But I'd also argue that it doesn't really matter that much.

People on Reset Era act as if they'll go blind if they play a game that has a little aliasing.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,227
Had a bit of an idea, what if the Switch lite and the Switch pro have the same specs?
Might be cheaper to just produce one SoC going forward instead of two different ones.
The difference being no dock and no detachable joy con. Could be $249 vs $300?

Nintendo would presumably want people to have better hardware going forward.
I guess the issue would be that $250 isn't a very big cut but $200 seems too cheap? Might cause issues with xbox one and ps4 likely getting cuts this year
Same chip yes, but clocked/cooled differently.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,290
Guys, I figured out.
3ds had three screens
ds had two screens
s has to have one screen

So the switch mini is the Nintendo s. It's simple, maintain the switch brand without actually switching, and in incredible twist also continue the same line of portable console of Nintendo: the "screen" line.

Anyway, I think the closest we can get of news from Nintendo is in the next year guidance. There is no way they would predict switch to sell more this year without a revision coming. Or price cut. When it's happening again?
 
The only thing that makes me a bit more certain that Nintendo is going to bring a better switch out is VR. If you had a better resolution (even though what Nintendo for Labo is almost magical) the Vr clarity would be so much better. I feel that Nintendo's next move could be to bring more 1st party to Labo and in time go full on VR. I also think that 3ds games could be made into full VR with a much higher resolution solution for switch.
I think for VR, the actual screen resolution is a bigger issue than the ability to render that high. I have a Pixel 3 and a daydream headset that I got for free. The Pixel 3 is 1080p when in a horizontal configuration. The screen door effect is pretty bad. Doubling that resolution - even if not increasing the render resolution - would do a lot to improve the video quality.
 
Oct 25, 2017
46
My switch got stolen during the weekend, so apart from being down on the loss, I think my saves should be safe, otherwise I 'only' really lost Mario Odissey since I had that physical.

So my real question is, what timing should we expect on this hardware refresh? If it's a couple of months, I can work on my backlog on other consoles and just wait and get the powerful one. But if it's long (like a year or so), I probably would buy a replacement rather quickly (since I was in the middle of Baba is You and don't want to forget whatever I've learnt)
 
My switch got stolen during the weekend, so apart from being down on the loss, I think my saves should be safe, otherwise I 'only' really lost Mario Odissey since I had that physical.

So my real question is, what timing should we expect on this hardware refresh? If it's a couple of months, I can work on my backlog on other consoles and just wait and get the powerful one. But if it's long (like a year or so), I probably would buy a replacement rather quickly (since I was in the middle of Baba is You and don't want to forget whatever I've learnt)
We may know more on the 25th due to the investors thing. Otherwise we might know more at E3 on June 11th if they do a big announcement that morning. I don't think they've announced their schedule yet though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
46
We may know more on the 25th due to the investors thing. Otherwise we might know more at E3 on June 11th if they do a big announcement that morning. I don't think they've announced their schedule yet though.
Thanks! So at minimum I'll wait on getting a new switch until E3. Wanted to ask nonetheless since I had the experience of buying a fat PS3 one week prior the slim was announced, don't want to repeat that regret again lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,139
So the new firmware 8.0 that just released allows you to transfer individual save files between Switch systems. Now you can separate your switch from someone's saves who uses your device. (kids, partner, friends, roommates, parents) or you can move your saves to one of these new models coming later this year.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,385
Costa Rica
If people are curious, here's Nintendo's 1st party track record (US releases only) for arcitecture enhanced/exclusive software for their past revisions:

Game Boy Color enhanced
  • Tetris DX (Nintendo R&D1)
  • Game & Watch Gallery 2 (Tose Software)
  • Pocket Bomberman (Hudson Soft)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX (Nintendo R&D2)
  • Quest for Camelot (Titus Interactive)
  • Wario Land II (Nintendo R&D1)
  • Shadowgate Classic (Infinite Ventures)
  • Bugs Bunny: Crazy Castle 3 (Kemco)
  • Pokémon Pinball (Jupiter)
  • Conker's Pocket Tales (Rare) *contains both native DMG and CGB versions on 1 cart
  • R-Type DX (Bits Studios)
  • Disney's Beauty and the Beast: A Board Game Adventure (Leftfield Productions)
  • Pokémon Yellow Version: Special Pikachu Edition (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • NBA 3 on 3 Featuring Kobe Bryant (Leftfield Productions)
  • Game & Watch Gallery 3 (Tose Software)
  • Pokémon Trading Card Game (Hudson Soft)
  • Pokémon Gold / Silver Version (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • Hamtaro: Ham-Hams Unite! (Pax Softnica)
Game Boy Color exclusive
  • Super Mario Bros. Deluxe (Nintendo R&D2)
  • Ken Griffey Jr.'s Slugfest (Software Creations)
  • Mario Golf (Camelot Software Planning)
  • Mickey's Racing Adventure (Rare)
  • Star Wars: Episode I: Racer (Pax Softnica)
  • Bionic Commando: Elite Forces (Nintendo Software Technology)
  • Wario Land 3 (Nintendo R&D1)
  • Crystalis (Nintendo Software Technology)
  • Warlocked (Bits Studios)
  • The Little Mermaid II: Pinball Frenzy (Leftfield Productions)
  • Alice in Wonderland (Digital Eclipse)
  • Donkey Kong Country (Rare)
  • Pokémon Puzzle Challenge (Intelligent Systems)
  • Mario Tennis (Camelot Software Planning)
  • Mickey's Speedway USA (Rare)
  • Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble (HAL Laboratory)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages / Seasons (Capcom, Flagship)
  • Pokémon Crystal Version (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
Nintendo DSi enhanced
  • Art Academy (Headstrong Games)
  • Mario Vs. Donkey Kong: Mini-Land Mayhem (Nintendo Software Technology)
  • Pokémon Black / White Version (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • Fossil Fighters: Champions (Red Entertainment, M2, ArtDink)
  • Pokémon Conquest (Koei Tecmo)
  • Pokémon Black / White Version 2 (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
Nintendo DSi exclusive
  • all DSiWare (Various) 82 releases
New Nintendo 3DS enhanced
  • Streetpass Mii Plaza (Various)
  • Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS (Sora, Bandai Namco Studios)
  • Code Name S.T.E.A.M. (Intelligent Systems)
  • Chibi-Robo: Zip Lash (Skip)
  • Hyrule Warriors Legends (Omega Force, Koei Tecmo)
  • Stetchmo (Intelligent Systems)
  • Nintendo Badge Arcade (Nintendo SPD)
  • Pokémon Sun / Moon (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS (Nintendo Software Technology)
  • Poochy & Yoshi's Wooly World (Good-Feel)
  • Pokémon Ultra Sun / Moon (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • might be more, info is spotty at best
New Nintendo 3DS exclusive
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 3D (Monster Games)
  • Fire Emblem Warriors (Omega Force, Team Ninja)
  • all Super NES Virtual Console (Various) 30 releases
You forgot a couple of exclusive physical DSi games.



Edit: nvm I can't read, this is first party only.
 
Apr 15, 2019
3
So the new firmware 8.0 that just released allows you to transfer individual save files between Switch systems. Now you can separate your switch from someone's saves who uses your device. (kids, partner, friends, roommates, parents) or you can move your saves to one of these new models coming later this year.
Nintendo Switch Mini - June 2019
Just sayin'
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,343
This is what Furukawa said at the latest investors meeting,
Going forward, we aim to generate such demand among consumers as they feel like “I want to have my own Nintendo Switch console” through measures such as software offerings, not necessarily so that each person will have one, but so that each household will have multiple Nintendo Switch consoles
Goes in line with the 8.0 update, they want many Switches per household. Notice as well how he says it isn't for personal use but rather each family owning many Switches. I think they're imagining an scenario in which a family already owns a Switch, has a dock connected to their living room TV and they'll offer dockless bundles so that people can upgrade their Switch without the need of getting an extra dock, they'll then have two Switches, more joy-cons, might push sales for multiplayer/family games and so on. This way you reach both people who want to upgrade their Switch and those who mostly care about portability. Would be silly if I wanted a new Switch and had to get an extra dock I won't use.

I think the biggest hint of the revision so far is Labo VR as there is no use of docking features compared to previous kits like the Robot or Vehicle one, you get to enjoy the whole thing without the need of a TV, just the console and the joy-cons. Considering they'll likely promote Labo again for holidays just like they did last year it will be a great kit for those who got the dockless Switch.

Part of me thinks they're delaying Mario Maker 2 details as the game will release alongside one of the revisions, probably bundled with it.

As for exclusives regarding these two new models, I think the only case I can remember is Guitar Hero that wasn't playable with the DSi. All these New 3DS exclusive games only affected those who already owned the previous system, not new buyers. if you bought the latest 3DS model you got to play all of the games. In the case of these two new models we're talking of an scenario in which consumers will buy one of the latest Switch models and they won't be able to play some of the games released so far.

Again, it selling great currently without big game released this year so far and wihout any bundle, and with releasing of heavy hitters sales could be only better.
First of all, sorry for my late answer, was a bit busy these last days.

It's selling great but Nintendo at the latest investors meeting said they failed at trying to conveny the appeal of the Switch to new consumers. I think it would be silly to go into its third year without a price drop of any kind.

Saying that, with New Switch, Nintendo maybe dont want to make lower price point for main model/revision, its very possible they will make more attractive and more desirable product with same price point, I mean they done something similar with some 3DS versions. I dont think that New Switch will be 330 dollars or euros, probably will be same price point like current Switch model, while current Switch model will get little price point to $270/280 with bundled game until there are stocks.
Exactly, I also believe this new Switch will simply replace the current model, become the next standard model and will feel like a premium model just like the New 3DS was compared to the OG 3DS. That's why I really doubt they will let the Switch at 330 euros, that's its price in Europe or at least in my country (sometimes it gets to 310 but rarely), I can tell you that "3" in there really scares some parents off. If they keep the same price point as the current model then it means the New Switch will be more than 300 euros. By releasing a New Switch and a portable only model it means you're not giving consumers the option to buy a cheaper Switch. Is there a market for a handheld console? Not as big as a few years ago but sure there is. Are there parents who are getting a PS4 for their kids cause it's way cheaper than a Switch? Yes.

You are wrong, it would be part of Switch platform and Switch family offocurse, its similar like saying that 2DS is not part of 3DS family.
Wii and GC comparison or DS with GBA with OG Switch and Switch Mini/Pocket don't make any sense, Wii, GC, DS, GBA are all different platforms and we talking only about different platforms that had backward compatibility, I mean you couldnt play Wii games on GC, or DS games on GBA,
Switch Mini/Pocket would be handheld revision of current Switch not separate platform like examples you mentioned.
Actually the 2DS needed a change of name because it had no 3D and you could play all of the games at the time of its release, it's a totally different scenario. As I say above, it's a totally different case, if you bought a GameBoy Color you got to play all the games, if you got a New 3DS you could play all the games.

WSJ reported won't be a traditional handheld but also very different design compared to current model (you keep ignoring that part), and that could really be anything but definitely different compared to current Switch (with cut features offcourse). But they are offering something different, they offering full home console games on the go, also some of biggest games of generation like Zelda BotW, Odyssey or Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, actually Nintendo was talking like they want that Switch be bridge between smartphone and console gaming.
Saying that, its not point only about casual/smartphone gamers, but also about ex 3DS owners, kids, core handheld players or generally handheld lovers.
I'm ignoring it because it doesn't exist, nowhere in the WSJ it says the cheaper model will have a "very different design", they quote one person who has played BOTH models saying we will be surprised with its shape. That doesn't mean it has to be a different design or form factor. The DS Lite was so thinner compared to the OG DS that it felt like a new console, it's amazing how Nintendo had released such a fat console just two years before. The Game Boy Micro was also surprising, but did anything change in it compared to the other models? Not really, it was still the same console.

99% of games are perfectly playable without motion controls and in full handheld mode, and thats only point that matters because we talking about only handled users that this revision is aiming for. Offcourse that you cant have full experience with low price point offer that will have cute features, if you want full experience than better buy more expansive regular Switch.
Even if it's a 1% of unplayable games the problem is that those games are the ones made for the audience the revision is supposedly made for. They won't release a console for families and kids in which you can't play Super Mario Party, Labo or Just Dance. As I said before, I believe thats where we disagree, I think the cheaper model is for casuals and kids.

2DS was cheap, and has cut features and did not support same games like New 3DS that replaced OG on market. but 2DS wasnt for family, 2DS was personal device, not fun for hole family with local multiplayer like current Switch is.
And those people bought Switch, again, Switch Mini/Pocket revision is for people that want Switch games in handheld mode at low price point but they dont care about TV play or Joy Cons.
The New 3DS released much later than the 2DS, it released in Japan in 2014 but there was no 2DS in Japan at the time. You could play all of the games at the time of its release and in the end all 3DS games became playable with the New 2DS. You can't compare, they're totally different situations.

They not retracting anyone, its like saying that with 2DS they restricted people who like 3D, SNES games or clamshell design,
people will choose revision that fits them more, you cant expect that you have diffrent kind of revisions and price points and that they all have all same capabilities and features, you need to realise that when come to Nintendo, they doing different kind versions and price points aimed at different kind parts of market, I mean there is reason why Nintendo had price point from $80 to $200 with 3DS family.
Current Switch or New Switch will be cheaper by time in any case and current Switch is perfect for family play, but Nintendo with Switch Mini/Pocket looking at low price offer for handheld users (including ex 3DS users that were only handheld players offcourse).
The 3D, SNES games or clamshell design didn't affect gameplay at all.

In any case, I guess we'll find out soon, I'll be getting this Switch Mini anyway and I think it's a great idea for those who simply want to play games like BOTW or MP4 on the go, but I feel like Nintendo may want to reach a bigger audience than that and it should offer something different than a traditional handheld experience if they want people to carry a Switch instead of a smartphone, I'm sure that whatever they release it'll be a great product.
 
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Dec 5, 2017
1,923
First of all, sorry for my late answer, was a bit busy these last days.

It's selling great but Nintendo at the latest investors meeting said they failed at trying to conveny the appeal of the Switch to new consumers. I think it would be silly to go into its third year without a price drop of any kind.


Exactly, I also believe this new Switch will simply replace the current model, become the next standard model and will feel like a premium model just like the New 3DS was compared to the OG 3DS. That's why I really doubt they will let the Switch at 330 euros, that's its price in Europe or at least in my country (sometimes it gets to 310 but rarely), I can tell you that "3" in there really scares some parents off. If they keep the same price point as the current model then it means the New Switch will be more than 300 euros. By releasing a New Switch and a portable only model it means you're not giving consumers the option to buy a cheaper Switch. Is there a market for a handheld console? Not as big as a few years ago but sure there is. Are there parents who are getting a PS4 for their kids cause it's way cheaper than a Switch? Yes.

Actually the 2DS needed a change of name because it had no 3D and you could play all of the games at the time of its release, it's a totally different scenario. As I say above, it's a totally different case, if you bought a GameBoy Color you got to play all the games, if you got a New 3DS you could play all the games.

I'm ignoring it because it doesn't exist, nowhere in the WSJ it says the cheaper model will have a "very different design", they quote one person who has played BOTH models saying we will be surprised with its shape. That doesn't mean it has to be a different design or form factor. The DS Lite was so thinner compared to the OG DS that it felt like a new console, it's amazing how Nintendo had released such a fat console just two years before. The Game Boy Micro was also surprising, but did anything change in it compared to the other models? Not really, it was still the same console.

Even if it's a 1% of unplayable games the problem is that those games are the ones made for the audience the revision is supposedly made for. They won't release a console for families and kids in which you can't play Super Mario Party, Labo or Just Dance. As I said before, I believe thats where we disagree, I think the cheaper model is for casuals and kids.

The New 3DS released much later than the 2DS, it released in Japan in 2014 but there was no 2DS in Japan at the time. You could play all of the games at the time of its release and in the end all 3DS games became playable with the New 2DS. You can't compare, they're totally different situations.

The 3D, SNES games or clamshell design didn't affect gameplay at all.

In any case, I guess we'll find out soon, I'll be getting this Switch Mini anyway and I think it's a great idea for those who simply want to play games like BOTW or MP4 on the go, but I feel like Nintendo may want to reach a bigger audience than that and it should offer something different than a traditional handheld experience if they want people to carry a Switch instead of a smartphone, I'm sure that whatever they release it'll be a great product.
“I want to have my own Nintendo Switch console" basically means personally device.
But of course, like he wrote, not every person will buy Switch just for itself or for instance Switch Mini/Pocket, some will have Switch Mini/Pocket and regular Switch, some only regular Switch, some only Switch Mini/Pocket...there will be of course be people that will have multiple Switch units per house, so this software update makes sense in any case.


First of all, sorry for my late answer, was a bit busy these last days.

It's selling great but Nintendo at the latest investors meeting said they failed at trying to conveny the appeal of the Switch to new consumers. I think it would be silly to go into its third year without a price drop of any kind.
Damn, I hopped we want continue with this any more. :D

That dont change nothing, sales were very good despite they didnt had big game most of year, only real big games were released in Q4 of year and that was main reason why they ddint hit they goal, and just with much stronger lineup this year and possible bundles, sales would be better this year in any case than they were last year even with same price point. Of Course any kind of revision (and price point of that revision can only effect on stronger sales).

Exactly, I also believe this new Switch will simply replace the current model, become the next standard model and will feel like a premium model just like the New 3DS was compared to the OG 3DS. That's why I really doubt they will let the Switch at 330 euros, that's its price in Europe or at least in my country (sometimes it gets to 310 but rarely), I can tell you that "3" in there really scares some parents off. If they keep the same price point as the current model then it means the New Switch will be more than 300 euros. By releasing a New Switch and a portable only model it means you're not giving consumers the option to buy a cheaper Switch. Is there a market for a handheld console? Not as big as a few years ago but sure there is. Are there parents who are getting a PS4 for their kids cause it's way cheaper than a Switch? Yes.
How much Switch costs in your country is irelevent, we know that current Switch in Europe, US and Japan is around $300/euros, and thats price point I taking about.
Actually you giving consumers that don't need hybrid nature of Switch low price option, thats hole point of Switch Mini/Pocket revision,
to others that care about current Switch you gaving higher value for same price point and potential bundle.
Offcourse there is market for handheld revision, one of main reasons why Switch is selling so great is handheld side of Switch, I mean 3DS sold 75m units.
Switch in any case is very different to PS4, so how much Switch costs compared to PS4 is irrelevant (espacilly now when PS4 sales are slowing down and entering its last years), from Switch launch we saw that both PS4 and Switch are selling great in same time.

Actually the 2DS needed a change of name because it had no 3D and you could play all of the games at the time of its release, it's a totally different scenario. As I say above, it's a totally different case, if you bought a GameBoy Color you got to play all the games, if you got a New 3DS you could play all the games.
They needed to change a little name, 2DS and 3DS are very similar names, and every person said that "Switch" would get something like "Pocket/Go/Mini.." in naming with its low price point revision.
It doesnt really matter, point is that in both cases you couldn't play every game on every revision, and that fact is that we talking about same platform.

I'm ignoring it because it doesn't exist, nowhere in the WSJ it says the cheaper model will have a "very different design", they quote one person who has played BOTH models saying we will be surprised with its shape. That doesn't mean it has to be a different design or form factor. The DS Lite was so thinner compared to the OG DS that it felt like a new console, it's amazing how Nintendo had released such a fat console just two years before. The Game Boy Micro was also surprising, but did anything change in it compared to the other models? Not really, it was still the same console.
Well you are obviously wrong, he did said designs different from the original and you'd be surprised, and based on people (not based on one person):
"My latest on new Nintendo Switch coming as early as this summer. There would be two models, and people who've seen them said designs of new devices are "different from the original and you'd be surprised".

That's actually main report from WSJ, you cant really stick to info that you likes and ignore part that you dont like and thats not in line with your way of thinking.
So yeah, we obviously talking about different kind of designs, at least based on WSJ report.

Even if it's a 1% of unplayable games the problem is that those games are the ones made for the audience the revision is supposedly made for. They won't release a console for families and kids in which you can't play Super Mario Party, Labo or Just Dance. As I said before, I believe thats where we disagree, I think the cheaper model is for casuals and kids.
Again wrong, those games are made with family play on mind, not for handheld users, thats why those games dont support handheld play in first place, so nothing really changes.
And no, 1% of games don't change nothing, especially when we don't talk about biggest and most popular Switch games (Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Pokemon, Splatoon, Animal Crossing) in any case.

The New 3DS released much later than the 2DS, it released in Japan in 2014 but there was no 2DS in Japan at the time. You could play all of the games at the time of its release and in the end all 3DS games became playable with the New 2DS. You can't compare, they're totally different situations.
That doesnt change anuthing about what I wrote, they have some differences, but differences going in favour of my point because 3DS will be dead this year and Nintendo will not have low price offer for handheld users any more, $200 Switch/Mini pocket would fit perfectly like market replacement for 3DS on market.

The 3D, SNES games or clamshell design didn't affect gameplay at all
3D was biggest feature of 3DS and they cut in order to have low price 3DS offer, point of SNES games is that they couldn't be played with low price point revision.


Yeah, I also think we will find soon enough, in next 2 month latest.
Thing is that Switch is only Nintendo platform going forward, from this year they will not have any more two platforms like before,
with that on mind they will have multiply kind of revisions and price points that are all parts of same platform, Switch has much more potential for different kind of revision and price points than 3DS (that had 5 of them) ever had. :)
 
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Zoom feature for potentially helping to read text on a smaller display points to a smaller Switch also.
Not really. It's a standard accessibility feature available on pretty much literally everything out there (including PS4 and Xbox One). It's not just for small displays, but rather for poor vision in general. It's less a sign of potential future hardware and more Nintendo being far behind the curve on accessibility options.
 
Oct 27, 2017
901
If people are curious, here's Nintendo's 1st party track record (US releases only) for arcitecture enhanced/exclusive software for their past revisions:

Game Boy Color enhanced
  • Tetris DX (Nintendo R&D1)
  • Game & Watch Gallery 2 (Tose Software)
  • Pocket Bomberman (Hudson Soft)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX (Nintendo R&D2)
  • Quest for Camelot (Titus Interactive)
  • Wario Land II (Nintendo R&D1)
  • Shadowgate Classic (Infinite Ventures)
  • Bugs Bunny: Crazy Castle 3 (Kemco)
  • Pokémon Pinball (Jupiter)
  • Conker's Pocket Tales (Rare) *contains both native DMG and CGB versions on 1 cart
  • R-Type DX (Bits Studios)
  • Disney's Beauty and the Beast: A Board Game Adventure (Leftfield Productions)
  • Pokémon Yellow Version: Special Pikachu Edition (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • NBA 3 on 3 Featuring Kobe Bryant (Leftfield Productions)
  • Game & Watch Gallery 3 (Tose Software)
  • Pokémon Trading Card Game (Hudson Soft)
  • Pokémon Gold / Silver Version (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • Hamtaro: Ham-Hams Unite! (Pax Softnica)
Game Boy Color exclusive
  • Super Mario Bros. Deluxe (Nintendo R&D2)
  • Ken Griffey Jr.'s Slugfest (Software Creations)
  • Mario Golf (Camelot Software Planning)
  • Mickey's Racing Adventure (Rare)
  • Star Wars: Episode I: Racer (Pax Softnica)
  • Bionic Commando: Elite Forces (Nintendo Software Technology)
  • Wario Land 3 (Nintendo R&D1)
  • Crystalis (Nintendo Software Technology)
  • Warlocked (Bits Studios)
  • The Little Mermaid II: Pinball Frenzy (Leftfield Productions)
  • Alice in Wonderland (Digital Eclipse)
  • Donkey Kong Country (Rare)
  • Pokémon Puzzle Challenge (Intelligent Systems)
  • Mario Tennis (Camelot Software Planning)
  • Mickey's Speedway USA (Rare)
  • Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble (HAL Laboratory)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages / Seasons (Capcom, Flagship)
  • Pokémon Crystal Version (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
Nintendo DSi enhanced
  • Art Academy (Headstrong Games)
  • Mario Vs. Donkey Kong: Mini-Land Mayhem (Nintendo Software Technology)
  • Pokémon Black / White Version (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • Fossil Fighters: Champions (Red Entertainment, M2, ArtDink)
  • Pokémon Conquest (Koei Tecmo)
  • Pokémon Black / White Version 2 (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
Nintendo DSi exclusive
  • all DSiWare (Various) 82 releases
New Nintendo 3DS enhanced
  • Streetpass Mii Plaza (Various)
  • Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS (Sora, Bandai Namco Studios)
  • Code Name S.T.E.A.M. (Intelligent Systems)
  • Chibi-Robo: Zip Lash (Skip)
  • Hyrule Warriors Legends (Omega Force, Koei Tecmo)
  • Stetchmo (Intelligent Systems)
  • Nintendo Badge Arcade (Nintendo SPD)
  • Pokémon Sun / Moon (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS (Nintendo Software Technology)
  • Poochy & Yoshi's Wooly World (Good-Feel)
  • Pokémon Ultra Sun / Moon (Game Freak, Creatures Inc)
  • might be more, info is spotty at best
New Nintendo 3DS exclusive
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 3D (Monster Games)
  • Fire Emblem Warriors (Omega Force, Team Ninja)
  • all Super NES Virtual Console (Various) 30 releases
Absolutely ridiculous to put GameBoy Color games on this list. It was for all intents and purposes an entirely new console which came out nine years after the original GameBoy. It cannot be compared to the DSi and New 3DS.

Also, important to note that we got like five exclusive retail games for the DSi and New 3DS, and none of them sold very well. Switch Pro isn't getting exclusive games.
 
Jan 30, 2018
156
Germany
Well you are obviously wrong, he did said designs different from the original and you'd be surprised, and based on people (not based on one person):
"My latest on new Nintendo Switch coming as early as this summer. There would be two models, and people who've seen them said designs of new devices are "different from the original and you'd be surprised".

That's actually main report from WSJ, you cant really stick to info that you likes and ignore part that you dont like and thats not in line with your way of thinking.
So yeah, we obviously talking about different kind of designs, at least based on WSJ report.
I'm repeating myself here from several pages ago, but it says "designs" which can mean anything. If does not specify form factor, but I agree with you that it is likely that is changed at least a little if they change the design in any way, especially if they introduce two different models.
And: What is surprising to his sources and Mochi himself is up to them. We may not find the designs surprising at all.