WSJ: Sony Positions Next PlayStation for Hard-Core Gamers, focus on strengthening relationships with large publishers

TheRulingRing · Jun 29, 2019

TheGhost said:
So people's feelings got hurt ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Indie games are games. People thinking they need cinematic experiences to qualify as "games" is the problem. Whenever someone told me that PS4 Had no games I would point out that they actually had more games. If people want to troll they will troll.

Xbox wasn't even paying their indie devs back then, meanwhile Sony was the home of Indies, a complete reversal from the previous gen. Now it seems like the roles will reverse again at the start of next gen.

Indies might be important on this forum, but how many people do you think actually care about them?

RDR 2 alone probably sold more consoles than a 1000 indie games put together, and it came out near the end of the console cycle.

JoRu said:
Time to drag this old, but still relevant, meme up again, I guess:

I'm sure they have actual demographic data to rely on rather than forum discussion lol

entremet · Jun 29, 2019

Remo Williams said:
I for one am very excited by the prospect of even more bullshit exclusivity deals.

By the way, what happened to this?

Nah, why waste resources on promoting all the small fish? You'll be forced to be on our platform anyway.

This all sounds so... Well, expected, actually.

Companies pivot and change strategy all the time.

I don't get why people don't understand this.

Also, Sony is counting on market share. Indies will be there because it's poised to sell well anyway. Why does Sony need to invest limited money on stuff it will get anyway?

ghostcrew · Jun 29, 2019

get2sammyb said:
This happens in cycles, though. There were Rezzed events a few years ago that were basically just PS4 booths with no one else even there.

That was kinda my point. The first part of my post was...

It's weird that this is a thing after such an indie and small games friendly PS4 launch. I'd say that was a huge strength back in 2013.

VinFTW · Jun 29, 2019

Am I the only one who sees this as the most non news ever?

Of course Sony and MS would focus on big AAA games and publishers. This is a new generation. They want to show off power. MSs pitch was also similar, at e3: "this is first and foremost a games machine" (paraphrasing).

DriftingSpirit · Jun 29, 2019

Sankara said:
It's clear that Sony is missing Adam Boyes. They have been lacking in the indie support department for a while now and it's going to cost them next generation that they aren't on the same level of support and inclusion of indies as before.

The support dropped earlier in the gen and they have still be

DigSCCP said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6KdY7dLOtU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4gWK9-2pdXQ

Probably doesn't count because whatever.

Those indies aren't big enough. Don't count.

Sankara · Jun 29, 2019

Sedated said:
You cant sell potentially 500$ consoles by showing tons of indies. Big games that wow people help sell it. See nvidia or amds graphics card keynotes. They sell 500+$ gpus showing the best graphics tech in the biggest games on the market. Strategy makes sense. And even if they dont focus much on indies indies will all come to the platform because it is too large to ignore.

but nvidia and amd are not mass market products in the same sense that consoles need to be

famikon · Jun 29, 2019

CaviarMeths said:
but three of them are 1st party games

all of them are 1st party games

cakely · Jun 29, 2019

Danteyke223 said:
If this was MS right now the internet would be in flames. but i guess for the players Sony can do no wrong

I think you read a different article than the rest of us did.

Ukumio · Jun 29, 2019

liquidmetal14 said:
I haven't had a PlayStation in a bit but none of what they've done has impacted me on PC. They're one of the leaders so I do still think they know what they're doing and have done a great job this generation. It's a business at the end of the day and they've done a good job of treading the line and have done a stellar job this generation.

That's not true, Playstation has exclusive content in a handful of games that never comes to PC and timed exclusives in others. That effects PC just as much as Xbox.

JetroPT · Jun 29, 2019

Remo Williams said:
I for one am very excited by the prospect of even more bullshit exclusivity deals.

By the way, what happened to this?

Nah, why waste resources on promoting all the small fish? You'll be forced to be on our platform anyway.

This all sounds so... Well, expected, actually.

That's what they are doing with State of Play. Mostly promoting small/ indie PS4/PSVR games. But then you look at some of the reactions and yeah...

CaviarMeths · Jun 29, 2019

Nightengale said:
All four of them are first-party games. The only difference is their IP status, which has nothing to do with whether or not a game is first-party or not.

famikon said:
all of them are 1st party games

I left out Spider-Man because I wasn't actually sure on that one, since Sony doesn't hold the IP. Thanks for the clarification.

thuway · Jun 29, 2019

I am not buying a PS5 to play the Messenger. Which I'll most likely play on PC or Switch. Sony not actively baiting indies is non news.

DriftingSpirit · Jun 29, 2019

VinFTW said:
Am I the only one who sees this as the most non news ever?

Of course Sony and MS would focus on big AAA games and publishers. This is a new generation. They want to show off power. MSs pitch was also similar, at e3: "this is first and foremost a games machine" (paraphrasing).

Let the forum folk vent. Just some early morning angst.

thuway · Jun 29, 2019

People in here outraged that Playstation hates indies obviously don't give a shit about State of Play.

Nightengale · Jun 29, 2019

ghostcrew said:
That was kinda my point. The first part of my post was...

Back in 2013, Santa Monica Studio had an entire division dedicated to publishing and development/production support of indie-games. And WWS still had a not insignificant amount of games like Edith Finch, Rime, Rapture, Wattam, etc - which was part of their quirky first-party lineup.

A few years after that - that whole division was canned with layoffs - half the games I mentioned became multiplatform as Sony sold off the publishing rights of those games to Annapurna/etc, among other things.

It's not weird at all. If anything, the signs has been clear as day that Sony is pivoting to an even heavier AAA focus in coming years.

ShinUltramanJ · Jun 29, 2019

I can see Sony wanting to focus on bigger AAA games right out of the gate. Microsoft did the same thing this gen, and all you read on message boards was how much better their launch lineup was.
Probably not a good idea to repeat that.

Realistically I doubt many indies are going to skip any of the consoles anyways. Unless of course they're paid exclusives, which I don't think people want to see.

Yerffej · Jun 29, 2019

Sony got big headed and dropped indies like a hot rock.

hussien-11 · Jun 29, 2019

Honestly? them ignoring smaller publishers is telling me to ignore their platform all together. at least for sometime.

I love smaller games and they are very important to me. i play them more than any AAA game.

DeathyG · Jun 29, 2019

JetroPT said:
That's what they are doing with State of Play. Mostly promoting small/ indie PS4/PSVR games. But then you look at some of the reactions and yeah...

Pretty much.

And holy shit at this thread. Sony dropping indies? Wtf...

thuway · Jun 29, 2019

Yerffej said:
Sony got big headed and dropped indies like a hot rock.

How so? Because they aren't openly funding games that are most likely going to sell better on Switch and will hit their platform eventually?

Also do you watch State of Play?

entremet · Jun 29, 2019

Yerffej said:
Sony got big headed and dropped indies like a hot rock.

Not really. They just didn't need to invest them. Indies are coming regardless if Sony actively invests in them.

If you worked at PlayStation and had limited funds for 3rd party relations, where would you put your money to?

Indies that will be coming regardless and whose top sales potential is limited or AAA studios, that can net you millions on licensing fees if a game blows up and sells 10 million or more?

An indie selling 1 million is a huge success. A AAA GaaS game selling 1 million is a disaster.

If Sony can tilt buyers to get GTA6 on their console, that a lot of revenue for Sony.

Guaraná · Jun 29, 2019

Am I seeing giant enemy crab, two jobs to afford a console and 599 all over again?

Betty · Jun 29, 2019

hussien-11 said:
Honestly? them ignoring smaller publishers is telling me to ignore their platform all together. at least for sometime.

I love smaller games and they are very important to me. i play them more than any AAA game.

They'll still show up on PS5, unless the console bombs.

Electro · Jun 29, 2019

First years PS+ free titles will probably be again a lot of indie games.

I don't see Sony ignoring indie games in the future....

modiz · Jun 29, 2019

Yerffej said:
Sony got big headed and dropped indies like a hot rock.

they had these 2 state of play episodes the last few months with the first one being especially focused on indies and VR, and we know how that turned out.

DigSCCP said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6KdY7dLOtU

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4gWK9-2pdXQ

Probably doesn't count because whatever.

DigSCCP · Jun 29, 2019

thuway said:
People in here outraged that Playstation hates indies obviously don't give a shit about State of Play.

They were probably outraged at SoP because there weren't big games lol

SolidSnakex · Jun 29, 2019

*Guaraná said:
Am I seeing giant enemy crab, two jobs to afford a console and 599 all over again?

No

"[PS3 was a] stark moment of hubris…our Icarus moment," he said. "…For our business, the fall was sharp."

Layden admitted that Sony didn't listen to developers or to players closely enough. A high price point and a punishing developer environment were major factors in taking PlayStation down a few notches

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news..._ahead_to_expanding_PlayStations_audience.php

gofreak · Jun 29, 2019

Remo Williams said:
I for one am very excited by the prospect of even more bullshit exclusivity deals.

By the way, what happened to this?

Nah, why waste resources on promoting all the small fish? You'll be forced to be on our platform anyway.

This all sounds so... Well, expected, actually.

'Forced to be on our platform' is an interesting way of saying 'Creating a compelling market opportunity'.

The vast majority of indies on PlayStation didn't have promotional deals and weren't there because of promotional deals. They were there, like on any popular platform, for the market opportunity.

I don't think Sony being focused on larger publishers precludes cherry-picked deals and promotional deals for highlight content from other devs by the way. When 'PS <3 indies' was going on, it's not like Sony was any less focused on the larger pubs. Those pubs have always been Sony's core.

Buzzman · Jun 29, 2019

entremet said:
Not really. They just didn't need to invest them. Indies are coming regardless if Sony actively invests in them.

So what you're saying is that they stopped trying to attract the attention of indie devs, and are just expecting them to show up anyway?

Some might call that a little arrogant.
Especially if MS and Nintendo will be focusing on attracting indies.

Yerffej · Jun 29, 2019

entremet said:
Not really. They just didn't need to invest them. Indies are coming regardless if Sony actively invests in them.

If you worked at PlayStation and had limited funds for 3rd party relations, where would you put your money to?

Indies that will be coming regardless and whose top sales potential is limited or AAA studios, that can net you millions on licensing fees if a game blows up and sells 10 million or more?

An indie selling 1 million is a huge success. A AAA GaaS game selling 1 million is a disaster.

Patrick Kelepek basically said as much on a recent podcast. It happened with MS last gen and Sony this gen. The focus shifted after monster success and now MS all of a sudden is indies friend again after doing poorly this gen. Believe he said people in the industry felt this way.

Nightengale · Jun 29, 2019

I'll say one thing in response to the whole "indies will come to PS4/5 anyway."

We've actually been seeing more and more high-profile indies published by Devolver and Annapurna be announced more so for Xbox/Switch than PS4. Games like Outer Wilds, Sayonara Wild Hearts, Ape Out, 12 Minutes, Gato Roboto, Artful Escape, etc.

Sure, they're probably timed exclusives that will come to PS4 in 6 months to a year, but MS/Nintendo are notably aggressive in those spaces today.

TheGhost · Jun 29, 2019

thuway said:
How so? Because they aren't openly funding games that are most likely going to sell better on Switch and will hit their platform eventually?

Also do you watch State of Play?

Sell better on switch but look and perform better on a next gen system

entremet · Jun 29, 2019

Buzzman said:
So what you're saying is that they stopped trying to attract the attention of indie devs, and are just expecting them to show up anyway?

Some might call that a little arrogant.
Especially if MS and Nintendo will be focusing on attracting indies.

The article said as much!

From the article:

"In general, publishers want their games on multiple platforms to maximize sales, while console makers look to make deals for exclusive content or an initial period of exclusive sales.

Some executives at smaller game makers say they have felt snubbed by Sony, in contrast to Nintendo. At the Tokyo Game Show in September, Nintendo is supporting events to showcase independent game developers. Sony used to do the same, but isn't planning to this year, the first Sony official said.

Sony still welcomes games from independent studios, the first Sony official said, but the emphasis is on strengthening relationships with large publishers since resources are limited. The thinking is, the official said, that people buy a console to play high-quality games available only on that platform, not smaller games also available on smartphones."

It's a sound strategy. Sony has the leverage and the power of incumbency. They're flaunting it. Independent devs need Sony more than Sony needs them.

DeathyG · Jun 29, 2019

Buzzman said:
So what you're saying is that they stopped trying to attract the attention of indie devs, and are just expecting them to show up anyway?

Some might call that a little arrogant.
Especially if MS and Nintendo will be focusing on attracting indies.

What is MS and Nintendo doing so different from Sony? They all have teams that work with indies.

Fastidioso · Jun 29, 2019

Buzzman said:
So what you're saying is that they stopped trying to attract the attention of indie devs, and are just expecting them to show up anyway?

Some might call that a little arrogant.
Especially if MS and Nintendo will be focusing on attracting indies.

It's not like indies will stop to release games on playstation just because sony want invest more in big budget games...

Zelas · Jun 29, 2019

ghostcrew said:
It's weird that this is a thing after such an indie and small games friendly PS4 launch. I'd say that was a huge strength back in 2013.

I've told this anecdote before but I went to EGX Rezzed this year. It's the UK's main indie gaming convention. A sister show to the main EGX. Nintendo had a massive area with tons of indie games coming to Switch. They were a massive presence there. Xbox had a big ID@Xbox room with 30 indie games, all coming to Game Pass. Sony had a room with Dreams in it. That was their entire presence at the show.

I'm surprised indie devs feel snubbed. After multiple cycles they should know by now that on platforms that have as much large publisher competition as Sony/MS, their window is launch to at most 3 years in. Unless you're lucky or a massive known quantity already.

You cant sustain their audience with indies alone. Nor can you afford to pour the same amount of resources into everyone equally. With MS as their competition it would be insane not to invest heavily on the biggest drivers of hardware and profit.

And honestly Sony cutting back on trade shows to focus on digital awareness isn't unique to Sony.

Alandring · Jun 29, 2019

I'm absolutely in favor of exclusive content. If it's not cut from the original game, it's basically Sony paying for free content for every PlayStation owner. People who don't have a PlayStation don't loose anything.

But I'm totally against timed exclusive (content or game). It's just paying to provide people to play the content, I hate it.

DXB-KNIGHT · Jun 29, 2019

The war of exclusives are upon us yet again,
Prepare for two or three years of "only on" , "play it first on " or "plays best on".

Electro · Jun 29, 2019

MS started a big indie offense because the first years of this gen mostly every indie game was PS4/PC only.

Sony will get them anyway.

12Danny123 · Jun 29, 2019

entremet said:
The article said as much!

From the article:

"In general, publishers want their games on multiple platforms to maximize sales, while console makers look to make deals for exclusive content or an initial period of exclusive sales.

Some executives at smaller game makers say they have felt snubbed by Sony, in contrast to Nintendo. At the Tokyo Game Show in September, Nintendo is supporting events to showcase independent game developers. Sony used to do the same, but isn't planning to this year, the first Sony official said.

Sony still welcomes games from independent studios, the first Sony official said, but the emphasis is on strengthening relationships with large publishers since resources are limited. The thinking is, the official said, that people buy a console to play high-quality games available only on that platform, not smaller games also available on smartphones."

It's a sound strategy. Sony has the leverage and the power of incumbency. They're flaunting it. Independent devs need Sony more than Sony needs them.

I mean they won't ignore Sony, but they sure don't want to interact with them. The reason why the Switch and Xbox platforms have been getting a boatload of Indies is because their business models support it. Game Pass gives indies massive exposure and has Microsoft paying them for a limited time. Nintendo needs indies on their platforms so they will aggressively support them.

Being on Sony's platforms doesn't guarantee anything in return.

Electro said:
MS started a big indie offense because the first years of this gen mostly every indie game was PS4/PC only.

Sony will get them anyway.

It's going to be much tougher since being on Sony's platforms doesn't guarantee success. money, exposure or accessibility.

Nameless · Jun 29, 2019

Featured in monthly PS+ games , constant Store deals, plenty of attention on the PS Blog -- indies haven't and won't be "ignored" by Sony.

The VR push did take resources away from their in-house indie initiative, which is understandable. But they get 90% of indie releases anyway. There's no sign of that changing, especially if they remain the market leader.

Buzzman · Jun 29, 2019

entremet said:
It's a sound strategy. Sony has the leverage and the power of incumbency. They're flaunting it. Independent devs need Sony more than Sony needs them.

I'm sure Microsoft thought the same thing in 2013 with XBLA. Perhaps it will be different this time, but I'm hearing a worryingly similar tone coming from Sony.

silva1991 · Jun 29, 2019

They'll continue throwing money to secure time exclusive games/content. Sad, but not really shocking.

Yerffej · Jun 29, 2019

silva1991 said:
They'll continue throwing money to secure time exclusive games/content. Sad, but not really shocking.

I mean at this point, knowing the consoles will be more alike than ever, what else is there to do? Gotta somehow differentiate yourself for the consumer beyond logos. They don't seem to want to do the Game Pass type thing.

Electro · Jun 29, 2019

Nameless said:
Featured in monthly PS+ games , constant Store deals, plenty of attention on the PS Blog -- indies haven't and won't be "ignored" by Sony.

The VR push did take resources away from their in-house indie initiative, which is understandable. But they get 90% of indie releases anyway. There's no sign of that changing, especially if they remain the market leader.

Yeah, looks like no one here remembers the first years plus titles of this gen xD

And Sony got soo much hate because of all the indie plus titles...

gofreak · Jun 29, 2019

Buzzman said:
So what you're saying is that they stopped trying to attract the attention of indie devs, and are just expecting them to show up anyway?

Some might call that a little arrogant.
Especially if MS and Nintendo will be focusing on attracting indies.

Am I to take it from you saying MS and Nintendo are focussed on indies that they're not focussed on bigger pubs?

Of course I don't think so - in fact I think they're probably also more 'focused' on big pubs too. Being more focused on one set of devs doesn't mean you ignore another. It's about allocation of resources. I'm sure MS, if not also Nintendo, spends far more on partner marketing and funding for larger pubs and devs than on indies.

Also, devs don't just 'show up'. They show up where a market has been created. If you go to all the efforts involved in building an audience for content, it's not arrogance to expect content creators or all stripes to be attracted to that platform and audience. It's simply logic. That's what all developers, big or small, ultimately want. It's not like any of the platform holders are simply sitting back and expecting devs to come to their platform - they're building a userbase and not unreasonably expecting that will be attractive to those developers.

Deleted member 135 · Jun 29, 2019

CaviarMeths said:
I find this a little inaccurate too. Obviously Nintendo performs more strongly than other publishers with younger gamers, but the majority of users for both platforms are teens and millennials. But it doesn't matter much anyway because a lot of Playstation fans are also Nintendo fans and vice versa. There's plenty of room in the demo for both.

Unless you are a kid you probably own a Switch in addition to another platform. Its a complimentary system, not a primary one for most people.

Fastidioso · Jun 29, 2019

Zelas said:
I'm surprised indie devs feel snubbed. After multiple cycles they should know by now that on platforms that have as much large publisher competition as Sony/MS, their window is launch to at most 3 years in. Unless you're lucky or a massive known quantity already.

You cant sustain their audience with indies alone. Nor can you afford to pour the same amount of resources into everyone equally. With MS as their competition it would be insane not to invest heavily on the biggest drivers of hardware and profit.

And honestly Sony cutting back on trade shows to focus on digital awareness isn't unique to Sony.

Personally I hate such move. Sony could give some economic advantage/deal to indie developers. Not necessarily needs to invest money but at least put them in the economical conditions to release more games on PlayStation. Hate when big multicorporation act like this. I hope it doesn't means they will stop to care totally about indies but smells of it.

Zok310 · Jun 29, 2019

modiz said:
I personally understand why they are going with this approach, early on in the PS4 generation, they had good marketing on indies, but that mostly lead to "ps4 has no games" meme, so i guess that they want to avoid this issue come the next generation.

They prolly looked at the time and energy they put into building relationships with indie devs, compared it to the time and energy they put is bigger studios only to see every time

ghostcrew said:
It's weird that this is a thing after such an indie and small games friendly PS4 launch. I'd say that was a huge strength back in 2013.

I've told this anecdote before but I went to EGX Rezzed this year. It's the UK's main indie gaming convention. A sister show to the main EGX. Nintendo had a massive area with tons of indie games coming to Switch. They were a massive presence there. Xbox had a big ID@Xbox room with 30 indie games, all coming to Game Pass. Sony had a room with Dreams in it. That was their entire presence at the show.

Yet Dreams will sell more software and hardware than every indie game at that event combined.
At ps4 launch sure they invested heavy in the indie scene, but what got the ps4 to 90+ million consoles sold was without a doubt the COD, BF, GTA, Destiny, Fifa, Madden...... so on.

Tratorn · Jun 29, 2019

Sounds great, hopefully we won't see a repeat of 2014 with PS5 then where they concentrated on Indies most of the time because big publishers weren't ready yet.

Pretty confident that the first year will be much better game wise than this gen. :)

WSJ: Sony Positions Next PlayStation for Hard-Core Gamers, focus on strengthening relationships with large publishers

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