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WWE Creative and HHH reportedly frustrated with the current product

Nov 1, 2017
10,446
Why is Sean Ross Sapp considered reliable?
Because he has a ridiculously good track record in breaking stories and getting interviews with wrestlers and writers?

There was a point in time where he was leaking the entire show an hour before it aired. He's one of the most credible wrestling reporters there is.
 
Nov 1, 2017
3,378
Vince needs to give up control. It's the only thing that's going to change anything at this point. I wonder if he can be forced out by stock holders...though they're still making record profits, so maybe they don't care.
 
Aug 18, 2018
324
I don't think blading, sexy ladies, or any of the TV 14 stuff would make the TV product better. It's just boring and nobody cares about most of the storylines.

I think, thank god it's TV PG because it's be a hell of a lot worse if they had boring storylines and matches but guys were blading every night. Like, if there was Attitude era blood every night but this Universe era boring nonsense, then I don't think that'd make the product better. Blood can make a great match epic and historically memorable... Austin v. Hart at Survivor Series, Ric Flair v Savage WM VIII, etc... Like great matches that add a little blood can be super memorable. But to bleed every week on TV, especially if the TV Sucks, makes it worse and you're wasting legit nasty stuff and harming the talent for a shitty show.
Yeah, even ignoring the fact that the more risqué stuff of the attitude era was touching on a cultural zeitgeist that isn't really there anymore, I've always felt that what made WWE successful during that period had more to do with working storytelling wise within limitations and in the face of stiff competition rather than the fact that wrestlers could potentially bleed like a sieve if they looked at someone too intensely.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,741
Vince needs to give up control. It's the only thing that's going to change anything at this point. I wonder if he can be forced out by stock holders...though they're still making record profits, so maybe they don't care.
He owns like 80% of the company so there isn't much they can do. By the same token, he also feels the drop in stock price more than anyone.
 

jml

Member
Mar 9, 2018
302
AEW is basically arriving at the perfect time it sounds like. Hopefully competition makes Vince realize things have stagnated.
I don't like a lot of the wrestlers in AEW and I'm still really looking forward to it because I just want a breath of fresh air at this point.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,234
I caught a bit of RAW at the gym a couple months ago and that shit sucked BAD.

There are no gimmicks anymore. No personalities. No hype-ass promos. Every match is a dude in black tights and a beard v. another dude in black tights and a beard.

There's no energy in the matches. No sense that two titans are fighting. Just oily beefcakes rolling each other around a bit.
LOL that was the same exact thought I had last time I caught Raw.
2 generic white guys in plain black speedos and gear grappling for what seemed like 90% of the match. No trash talk or promo beforehand, ended with no excitement either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,646
Terana
Vince either gets forced out by the board when profits go down or he holds on as the titanic sinks till he croaks like a Henry Ford

Whatever, fuck that garbage-ass Saudi blood money loving shithole of a company.
 
Oct 28, 2017
170
Oh Dear Lord, Ive been screaming about Raw and Smackdown needing to look completely different for years now. If nothing else, just do a different hard camera on the opposite side of the venue would help so much.
 
Oct 26, 2017
572
I don't think blading, sexy ladies, or any of the TV 14 stuff would make the TV product better. It's just boring and nobody cares about most of the storylines.

I think, thank god it's TV PG because it's be a hell of a lot worse if they had boring storylines and matches but guys were blading every night. Like, if there was Attitude era blood every night but this Universe era boring nonsense, then I don't think that'd make the product better. Blood can make a great match epic and historically memorable... Austin v. Hart at Survivor Series, Ric Flair v Savage WM VIII, etc... Like great matches that add a little blood can be super memorable. But to bleed every week on TV, especially if the TV Sucks, makes it worse and you're wasting legit nasty stuff and harming the talent for a shitty show.
That is true; with the current shows, having blood probably wouldn't help. I'm not expecting it to be CZW tournament of death every week with JEEZUS Zandig, but at least some heat. For as much as I hate him, Baron Corbin does draw legit heat during his promos; if his wrestling were as good as his promos, he would be outstanding.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,663
It is ridiculous that WWE has this huge creative team and none of their ideas ever get used, as long as Vince has final say than the product will continue to stagnate.
The worst part is that a lot of them get paid squat for their work and are given collectibles, tickets and memorabilia to compensate for lost payment. The whole way WWE is run is pretty crazy. They prey on diehard fans willing to work for peanuts.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,149
That is true; with the current shows, having blood probably wouldn't help. I'm not expecting it to be CZW tournament of death every week with JEEZUS Zandig, but at least some heat. For as much as I hate him, Baron Corbin does draw legit heat during his promos; if his wrestling were as good as his promos, he would be outstanding.
Corbin gets booed because he's on TV way too much, he sucks and nobody likes him.
 
Oct 25, 2017
779
Decapod 10
chase the same trends and gimmicks they have since the eighties and nineties, ie, the same things they have always done
From my perspective this is not the case. Where are the gimmicks, characters, and pageantry that made the WWF in the 80s and early 90s so fun to watch? Now when I watch WWE people just wrestle under their real names (or what could be their real names), come out in reasonable ring attire, and the talking/interviews have almost none of the fun and flavor of the heavily scripted, pre-taped segments from people like Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, or the Ultimate Warrior.

For me the product is incredibly boring now. The in-ring work is still fine I guess, but most everything outside of that is dull as dishwater. Hell, the announcing these days is nothing compared to the likes of Ventura, Heenan, Monsoon, or even younger Vince.

I realize I'm the old man yelling about the good ol' days here, but my point is that the current product is mostly NOT the same trends and gimmicks as the 80s WWF.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,027
I really like what he's doing with NXT, so I can kind of feel his pain. Vince just takes the talent he builds up (most of which have multiple 5 star matches) and just destroys them. I do hope that AEW will at least force the WWE to have some kind of turn around. I just can't understand how you have that much talent and waste it. There's just way too much talking and not enough showcasing the talent. And the talent they do showcase are the same guys. And let's look at some of this "talent" they showcase. Baron Corbin? Lacey Evans? I mean really?
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,789
Massachusetts
From my perspective this is not the case. Where are the gimmicks, characters, and pageantry that made the WWF in the 80s and early 90s so fun to watch? Now when I watch WWE people just wrestle under their real names (or what could be their real names), come out in reasonable ring attire, and the talking/interviews have almost none of the fun and flavor of the heavily scripted, pre-taped segments from people like Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, or the Ultimate Warrior.

For me the product is incredibly boring now. The in-ring work is still fine I guess, but most everything outside of that is dull as dishwater. Hell, the announcing these days is nothing compared to the likes of Ventura, Heenan, Monsoon, or even younger Vince.

I realize I'm the old man yelling about the good ol' days here, but my point is that the current product is mostly NOT the same trends and gimmicks as the 80s WWF.
I get what your saying and not disagree totally. But a lot of those guys came up with their own stuff and Vince hadn’t completely inserted himself yet, in fact the 90’s was when he did. But he’s chasing that without getting that it wasn’t his ownership that made that product and instead of letting creative make good story’s, personas and gimmicks for arguably the most talented roster in years, he thinks if he finds the next Hogan/Rock/big guy who’s a natural draw (last seen by me with reigns) it will save it so damn the input of others.

Hopefully that explains it better.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,070
North Carolina USA
Not even surprised. It's got to the point that I ONLY watch NXT and the Takeover PPVs cause the main roster stuff is very disappointing. Vince is out of touch and has been for a loooooooooooooong time. Just go home for fucks sake and let Hunter take over.
 

Clu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,140
The Grid
They need to watch an attitude era raw to figure out what worked. Start the show with a match, not a opening segment into a match. That sucks, get to the action.

Fire Kevin Dunn, he swears he is going to win an emmy one day, he served his purpose Vince, he's garbage time for fresh eyes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,598
This post fucking makes me dizzy.

I fucking HATE the camera work in WWE, I absolutely fucking HATE it.

There's that clip of... uhh... the Shield running in on a match and to make it look more hectic they make the camera work absolutely insane. It's unwatchably bad.

In the thread about that news monster heel guy whose a racist, I forget his name, but I watched a clip of him from the top of that article to see what his deal was... and the monster cam fucking ruined his finished. He looks to have a pretty good runnign sit down powerbomb which has a lot of damage, but the camera fucking ruins the blow and you miss the impact.

I just don't get how Dunne watches TV from today, and then watches it from 20 years ago and thinks that this camera shit makes the product better.
I like to think that it’s Vince backstage, demanding that they shake the cameras.

Just standing there, demanding shaking.
 
Nov 8, 2017
2,299
Boston, MA
Whenever the shows came to Boston I’d try to go, used to watch weekly but a few years ago I just dropped it. Just check the big PPVs and even then it’s just playing in the background.

A lot of people are frustrated. I try not to believe in the Trips is the savior stuff always see but it’s nice he is comforting the guys from NXT.
 
Dec 29, 2017
332
Vince McMahon is to the WWE what Al Davis was to the Raiders. Successful back in the day, a legend in the business, a true renegade, but now he's running it into the ground and only the hardcore fans and WWE alumni are sticking around. He is doing some serious damage to the brand that it might take decades to recover.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,335
Massachusetts
Whenever the shows came to Boston I’d try to go, used to watch weekly but a few years ago I just dropped it. Just check the big PPVs and even then it’s just playing in the background.

A lot of people are frustrated. I try not to believe in the Trips is the savior stuff always see but it’s nice he is comforting the guys from NXT.
Same. I do kind of want to check out Money in the Bank this weekend.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,068
Vince either gets forced out by the board when profits go down or he holds on as the titanic sinks till he croaks like a Henry Ford

Whatever, fuck that garbage-ass Saudi blood money loving shithole of a company.
Good thing he’s got two 500 million dollar contracts to help float the company
 
Oct 25, 2017
893
Birmingham, UK
He owns like 80% of the company so there isn't much they can do. By the same token, he also feels the drop in stock price more than anyone.
He owns ~42% of the company, which ordinarily would allow the other shareholders to oust him, though it would be difficult. Trouble is, his shares have double the voting power of the regular shares, so he's basically immune to action from other shareholders even if they all tried to oust him together.

In my unqualified opinion, the best thing to happen would be for the new deals to be jeopardised by low ratings. If that happens there's a chance that the stock value will tank, and Vince will feel that acutely.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,789
Massachusetts
Vince McMahon is to the WWE what Al Davis was to the Raiders. Successful back in the day, a legend in the business, a true renegade, but now he's running it into the ground and only the hardcore fans and WWE alumni are sticking around. He is doing some serious damage to the brand that it might take decades to recover.
That’s actually a really good analogy in my opinion.
 
Oct 27, 2017
236
Los Angeles
Weird to see people doubting this - everything reported has been reported elsewhere except for some minor details and nothing is remotely surprising.

Great time to be AEW, should be a lot of curiosity.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,984
Vince McMahon is to the WWE what Al Davis was to the Raiders. Successful back in the day, a legend in the business, a true renegade, but now he's running it into the ground and only the hardcore fans and WWE alumni are sticking around. He is doing some serious damage to the brand that it might take decades to recover.
That's actually one of the best analogies I've ever heard using Vince and the WWE.
 
Nov 18, 2017
251
The Andrade bit seems to fly in the face of recent reports about Vince actually being high on Almas.
I'm very good friends with a number of wrestlers on the WWE roster and they all said that they played the Nintendo Switch 2 this weekend in Japan.