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WWE Wrestlemania 35 |Super OT| Then, Now, 4-4-4-4EVER

What was match of the weekend?

  • War Raiders vs Ricochet and Aleister Black

    Votes: 41 20.9%
  • Johnny Gargano vs Adam Cole

    Votes: 97 49.5%
  • Smackdkwn tag fatal 4 way

    Votes: 10 5.1%
  • Dan

    Votes: 48 24.5%

  • Total voters
    196

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,574
I think it's because everyone just kinda primarily thought of Rock as a Samoan.

Samoan heritage is such a big deal in wrestling that people look to it to give rubs to people like Roman Reigns, the Usos, Umaga, or Nia Jax. In hindsight, people look at that as a bigger deal for Rock than him being part Black.
I didn't even know the Rock was from that Samoan family of wrestlers until well into his career. When he was introduced as Rocky Maivia, it was the son of Rocky Johnson, and as the grandson of Peter Maivia... But they never did an adequate job of explaining, at the time to a 12 year old, that Rocky Johnson was the Rock's dad, and Peter Maivia was his maternal grandfather. I always assumed that when they called the Rock/Rocky a 3rd generation wrestler, it was his father and his paternal grandfather.

Still, I've always thought it was really weird that some people don't count the Rock as being black given who his father was and that he was part of the Nation of Domination when he first turned heel.

But, also I think when I was watching the Anoai family was known in WWF/E for The Headshrinkers (w/ Afa) and Yokozuna (and even then WWF kayfabe pretended that Yokozuna was Japanese and there was no relation), and they wouldn't really reach "epic wrestling family status" until they'd get big singles pushes with RIkishi/Fatu, Umaga, Usos, etc. And then eventually The Rock. But that was also the era when WWF/E didn't recognize family relationships. Like, even with Afa managing the Headshrinkers, they never mentioned Afa as Samu's dad... or that he ever wrestled as the Wild Samoans, etc.
 
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El D

Member
Sep 20, 2018
1,494
Still, I've always thought it was really weird that some people don't count the Rock as being black given who his father was and that he was part of the Nation of Domination when he first turned heel.
Then again, it's wrestling. Owen Hart was in the Nation as well.

Yup, the match quality was overall incredibly low. When your developmental league outshines your biggest show of the year by far, that's a problem.
People say this after every Takeover weekend. The truth is that the main roster product does enough to get by while being subject to the whims of a crazed 73 year-old man while the developmental roster gets to rehearse their matches for weeks on end with thought put into it. The main roster will never be up to the level of NXT.
 

Books

Alt account
Banned
Feb 4, 2019
2,180
Did anyone get morning news interviews? In the past, the champ usually does an interview with the Today Show or whatever else morning wine drinking show is on.
 

El D

Member
Sep 20, 2018
1,494
Oct 28, 2017
695
People say this after every Takeover weekend. The truth is that the main roster product does enough to get by while being subject to the whims of a crazed 73 year-old man while the developmental roster gets to rehearse their matches for weeks on end with thought put into it. The main roster will never be up to the level of NXT.
People say this every Takeover weekend because it’s been true every Takeover weekend. If the excuse is that it’s subject to the whims of a “crazed 73 year-old man” then Vince should retire. And if he doesn’t retire, then we should continue to shame him every time Takeover shits all over the main roster.
 

warp_

Banned
Mar 23, 2019
50
This forum being pessimistic... Never ;) Glad you enjoyed it.
I'm not terribly familiar with this forum yet but wrestling fans tend to be a pessimistic bunch. :) That's why I'm always happy to stay optimistic and celebrate the good shows and great payoffs that make wrestling a great medium of entertainment.

I'm just so happy to see Becky getting what she deserves and Kofi finally getting the recognition he should be getting after such a fantastic career.
 

greengr

Member
Dec 3, 2018
380
people sayin what a bad wrestlemania that was,really should watch that roh shit on msg to appreciate wwe booking lmao
 

Plinkerton

Member
Nov 4, 2017
754
So by my count, across WWE and main NXT, 10 of their 13 champions are babyfaces right now (or 11 of 14 if you count Becky twice). Can't imagine there's been many times recently where the ratio has been that high, especially in recent years. For how heel focused they've been in the modern era, it's kinda crazy that they only have three heel champs now.
 

Rion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,045
I'm not terribly familiar with this forum yet but wrestling fans tend to be a pessimistic bunch. :) That's why I'm always happy to stay optimistic and celebrate the good shows and great payoffs that make wrestling a great medium of entertainment.

I'm just so happy to see Becky getting what she deserves and Kofi finally getting the recognition he should be getting after such a fantastic career.
Not really this forum in particular more the internet at large haha.

I keep hearing good things about NXT. Maybe I should give that a shot. Probably more aimed at an old fart who liked the days when there was more actual wrestling in wrestling compared to a modern RAW.
 

warp_

Banned
Mar 23, 2019
50
Not really this forum in particular more the internet at large haha.

I keep hearing good things about NXT. Maybe I should give that a shot. Probably more aimed at an old fart who liked the days when there was more actual wrestling in wrestling compared to a modern RAW.
You should! I don't regularly watch NXT weekly anymore because of time but this weekend's show really was amazing. The Pete Dunne vs WALTER match was my favorite of the whole weekend, and that's saying something because I watched so much wrestling I almost went crosseyed lol
 

ratcliffja

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,981
So by my count, across WWE and main NXT, 10 of their 13 champions are babyfaces right now (or 11 of 14 if you count Becky twice). Can't imagine there's been many times recently where the ratio has been that high, especially in recent years. For how heel focused they've been in the modern era, it's kinda crazy that they only have three heel champs now.
So the only heel champs are Joe and the Iconics?
 

Solaris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,487
Wonder how long they'll keep the strap on Kofi.

Still kinda hard to believe they even put it on him, especially at WM. Easily the best moment of the show
 

ratcliffja

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,981
And Shayna if you're including NXT. Kinda crazy when you think we went into this weekend with Brock, Bryan, Charlotte, Ronda, Lashley all heel champs.
OK I didn't know you were including tag belts as one each. Yeah, that's pretty interesting, especially considering how many people wanted Shayna to lose and Bayley/Sasha to win.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,574
I keep hearing good things about NXT. Maybe I should give that a shot. Probably more aimed at an old fart who liked the days when there was more actual wrestling in wrestling compared to a modern RAW.
NXT is amazing, and I don't think it's targeted towards a particular audience... Probably kind of more targeted to the indie-fan audience. NXT, for about ~4-5 years, has had this proven ability to make stars in that promotion, which is such a contrast to the main WWE roster where so many promising wrestlers have seemingly languished in obscurity for so long. Like, it was great to see Kofi go over last night, but it's also kind of astonishing that a guy as good as he is has been trapped in a mostly mid-card to lower-tier for... 11 years. And then you've got guys who have this amazing talent and have proven they can get over with fans, like Bobby Roode (who was like the king of NXT when he came up tot he main roster) not even getting face time for a 7-hour long card. It's tough to blame WWE for it because they've got ... I dunno 60 guys (?) on the main roster who are all at that level and can realistically only focus on a handful at a time.

NXT has a smaller roster than the main brand, and what also adds to it is there's constant movement because you sort of expect that the top guy will end up going up to the main brand once a year or so, so the top of the card changes with regularity, forcing them to put guys over and sell them to the crowd, and then you get a lot of hungry young talent at the bottom coming up who want to prove themselves. I think the movement on the roster is something that helps NXT and because there's no real big time competitor to WWE (e.g., no WCW / WWF promotional feud) there's nowhere for a seasoned veteran to go, either giving that vet an opportunity elsewhere but also opening up space for someone else to fill the void. Like, back in ~95/96, if WCW didn't exist, then Kevin Nash would have stayed around the top of the card for WWF ... why bother leaving, he'd be making as much as he could make, and then you wouldn't have had the rise of Stone Cold or any of the guys who kicked off the Attitude Era, OR WCW v. NWO over in WCW. I think the movement on the NXT brand makes it better because it makes a lot more opportunity.

As a result, the writing and storymaking is better than the main roster because they can really focus on 4-5 feuds to get them over in a given period, as opposed to ... 10 or 20 feuds.

As a guy who goes to a handful of indie shows a year, too and follows the indie scene to a small degree, I love seeing the indie guys break into NXT because I've seen them wrestle in tiny bars over the last couple years, and now guys like Matt Riddle, Keith Lee, Deonna Purazzo, etc., are all going to be headlining Wrestlemania-like events in NXT over the next couple years.

I'm not pessimistic about WWE though. I don't watch it except for the major PPVs, and roughly following the ups and downs throughout the year online. I think it'll be good for Vince to resign one day. I'm not sure how they can really fix the problems that they do have, aside from making sort of like a pseudo-territory type thing again
 
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Edge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,330
Celle, Germany
And Shayna if you're including NXT. Kinda crazy when you think we went into this weekend with Brock, Bryan, Charlotte, Ronda, Lashley all heel champs.

Yeah, but I wouldn't think about that too much, maybe not at all even. Cause tonight will probably swirl something around. And if not then we have the draft in 1 or 2 weeks. A lot will happen in the next few weeks including title switches.
 

ratcliffja

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,981
Yeah, but I wouldn't think about that too much, maybe not at all even. Cause tonight will probably swirl something around. And if not then we have the draft in 1 or 2 weeks. A lot will happen in the next few weeks including title switches.
I have a bad feeling that Shayna's going to debut and win one of the women's titles tonight or tomorrow.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,574
Yeah, but I think it makes sense to get one of the belts off of Becky. A wrestler with two belts is a good gimmick for a couple weeks to prove their dominance, but less opportunity for someone else.
 

Etrian Oddity

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,429
On the Taker debate, let us remember that their initial plan for Mark Calaway was him hatching out of the giant egg they were hyping for Survivor Series that year and becoming "The Eggman." Then someone came to their senses just days before the show and they thew together The Undertaker gimmick as a replacement.
you just sent me down a rabbithole that led to this, you summama bitch:

 

ManCityX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,757
Manchester, England
On the Taker debate, let us remember that their initial plan for Mark Calaway was him hatching out of the giant egg they were hyping for Survivor Series that year and becoming "The Eggman." Then someone came to their senses just days before the show and they thew together The Undertaker gimmick as a replacement.
He’d already filmed several matches with the deadman character before Survivor Series. In a couple he even went by the name of Kane the Undertaker.
 

Silver-Streak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,570

Rion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,045
NXT is amazing, and I don't think it's targeted towards a particular audience... Probably kind of more targeted to the indie-fan audience. NXT, for about ~4-5 years, has had this proven ability to make stars in that promotion, which is such a contrast to the main WWE roster where so many promising wrestlers have seemingly languished in obscurity for so long. Like, it was great to see Kofi go over last night, but it's also kind of astonishing that a guy as good as he is has been trapped in a mostly mid-card to lower-tier for... 11 years. And then you've got guys who have this amazing talent and have proven they can get over with fans, like Bobby Roode (who was like the king of NXT when he came up tot he main roster) not even getting face time for a 7-hour long card. It's tough to blame WWE for it because they've got ... I dunno 60 guys (?) on the main roster who are all at that level and can realistically only focus on a handful at a time.

NXT has a smaller roster than the main brand, and what also adds to it is there's constant movement because you sort of expect that the top guy will end up going up to the main brand once a year or so, so the top of the card changes with regularity, forcing them to put guys over and sell them to the crowd, and then you get a lot of hungry young talent at the bottom coming up who want to prove themselves. I think the movement on the roster is something that helps NXT and because there's no real big time competitor to WWE (e.g., no WCW / WWF promotional feud) there's nowhere for a seasoned veteran to go, either giving that vet an opportunity elsewhere but also opening up space for someone else to fill the void. Like, back in ~95/96, if WCW didn't exist, then Kevin Nash would have stayed around the top of the card for WWF ... why bother leaving, he'd be making as much as he could make, and then you wouldn't have had the rise of Stone Cold or any of the guys who kicked off the Attitude Era, OR WCW v. NWO over in WCW. I think the movement on the NXT brand makes it better because it makes a lot more opportunity.

As a result, the writing and storymaking is better than the main roster because they can really focus on 4-5 feuds to get them over in a given period, as opposed to ... 10 or 20 feuds.

As a guy who goes to a handful of indie shows a year, too and follows the indie scene to a small degree, I love seeing the indie guys break into NXT because I've seen them wrestle in tiny bars over the last couple years, and now guys like Matt Riddle, Keith Lee, Deonna Purazzo, etc., are all going to be headlining Wrestlemania-like events in NXT over the next couple years.

I'm not pessimistic about WWE though. I don't watch it except for the major PPVs, and roughly following the ups and downs throughout the year online. I think it'll be good for Vince to resign one day. I'm not sure how they can really fix the problems that they do have, aside from making sort of like a pseudo-territory type thing again
Thanks so much for that very interesting indepth reply!

I bought the Network for WrestleMania last night. Any suggestions on where to start with NXT? Also is it a weekly show and is it aired on the Network? I live in the UK if not so maybe it's on Sky Sports?
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,677
Thanks so much for that very interesting indepth reply!

I bought the Network for WrestleMania last night. Any suggestions on where to start with NXT? Also is it a weekly show and is it aired on the Network? I live in the UK if not so maybe it's on Sky Sports?
It's not on sky sports.
NXT is weekly, one hour shows that go up around midnight wednesday in UK time, they build towards around 6 takeover events per year compared to the main rosters 12.

I'd just consider throwing on the recent takeover from last friday and seeing how you find it.
 

ManCityX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,757
Manchester, England
His first appearance was at a TV taping on Nov 19, 1990. Survivor Series 1990 was Nov 22.
He was directly hired as Undertaker. You think they’d create all that ring gear, music etc in an instant? The character was planned for weeks if not months.

The story has been told a few times by the deadman himself actually. Vince called him up a few months after their first meeting and said ‘hello, is this the undertaker?’. At first he thought it was a prank but then Vince went on to tell him he wanted to hire him to play this new character they came up with.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,574
Thanks so much for that very interesting indepth reply!

I bought the Network for WrestleMania last night. Any suggestions on where to start with NXT? Also is it a weekly show and is it aired on the Network? I live in the UK if not so maybe it's on Sky Sports?
Yeah I'd just watch this Friday's Takeover. Even without knowing any of the storylines or run ups, it's still a really good show. They do vignettes before every match to explain the relevance of each guy. Obviously you enjoy it more if you have the whole back story, but it's very easy to just pick it up.

I don't watch the weekly shows, in general, I usually just focus on a handful of them in the run up to the Takeover events and because I follow US indie wrestling to a small degree I know a bit about the guys coming up.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,574
On the Taker debate, let us remember that their initial plan for Mark Calaway was him hatching out of the giant egg they were hyping for Survivor Series that year and becoming "The Eggman." Then someone came to their senses just days before the show and they thew together The Undertaker gimmick as a replacement.
That's one of those untrue apocryphal stories. Bruce Prichard wanted to bring Mark Calaway into WWF, knew about him from USWA and WCCW and his work in WCW w/ Heyman, wanted to manage him, and wanted him to be the foil of Prichard's Brother Love character. Calaway was brought in specifically to do the 'Kane the Undertaker' gimmick. They're might have been other people throwing out ideas for the stupid giant egg gimmick at Survivor Series, and maybe someone mentioned Calaway's name, but the person pushing hardest for Calaway was Prichard, and he had what would become the Undertaker gimmick in mind for Calaway before they brought him in:

 

fhqwhgads

Member
Oct 28, 2017
749
Wonder if Mania's overall positive feel will translate into the Raw after Mania ratings being decent for modern WWE standards or if it'll continue the same worrying downwards trajectory that the Road to Mania had.
 

SeroTyler

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,076
Man, as a set nerd, that Mania set was LAME. After the last two great looking ones with the mask and the roller coasters, it sucked to have the big led screen back bigger and badder than ever.

-I had the luxury of fast forwarding through a lot of the fluff, but even then I felt this show's length.
-Fuck Hulk Hogan.
-Brock and Seth was the most anticlimactic match they could have possibly done, reminded me of his match with Dean in that he clearly didn't want to do anything. I won't hold out hope that he'll finally go away this time, I'm sure he'll have the Universal strap back to lose it to Roman again by next year.
-Need to go back and watch Shane/Miz, surprised to hear they apparently knocked it out of the park.
-Billie and Peyton man, so glad they got their moment, well deserved. I love those two so much.
-Kofimania was absolutely incredible, for all the moments they pretend happen every year, this one was 100% genuine and will be remembered for years to come.
-I gotta say Brass Body Dave, I was wrong about HHH/Batista. A bit too long like all of HHH's matches, but I was sports entertained, happy for Batista to go out with a good showing.
Thuganomics Cena coming back was a fun surprise, but good lord was this long. On that note, thank the lord this show didn't have to suffer the presence of The Undertaker.
Can't believe Baron actually went over but it was probably the right way to go if it was actually what Kurt wanted.
After rewatching it, the main event was pretty damn great. Charlotte's helicopter entrance was really awkwardly paced though. Great physical brawl, really felt like they all hated each other's guts. I wish Ronda tapped and didn't lose on a fluke/maybe botched roll up, and it sucks the crowd was too burned out to go ballistic like they were for Kofi, but the show ended the one way it should have, with The Man on top, so no complaints here!

Probably the best Mania since XXX, even if the length has gone way past the point of being ridiculous.