X-Men #7: "Show them who you really are." (SPOILERS)

[The Adder]

They're on a island with Forge, Dr Nemesis, Beast, and Mr. Sinister.

They have the technology. And considering that superpowers can come in shots and inhaler form with MGH and Kick, those four coming up with a solution that's permanent via aerosol inhalation wouldn't be invasive, traumatic, or outside of the realm of possibility.

Click to shrink...

That's not actually addressing either of the points I was trying to make with that post. Apologies, I shall be clearer:

Making guinea pigs out of M-Day victims in order to perfect their super power prosthesis is likely to be traumatic.

Prosthetic, no matter how effective or lifelike, are not a surefire fix for the damage caused by traumatic loss of a piece of yourself.

If the goal was simply to have combat ready mutants, sure, your idea works. But if the goal is to undo as much of the damage of M-Day as possible? Not so much. Especially since it's trying to find a fix for a problem that already has one not because that fix would be more effective, but because you find it less distasteful.

 

[Pizza Dog]

Click to shrink...

Uhhh... Okay I guess? I'm not quite sure how they suddenly decided they were mutant eggs but I guess if it makes Goldballs a big player then I'm ok with it.

 

[TaleSpun]

I don't disagree, in that I find it uncomfortable at times, but it makes a ton of sense that it would hurt our sense of morality.
My assumption ever since House of X is that Hickman is mostly exploring the ramifications of an actual mutant culture emerging, built on their past experiences and the very practical reality of immortality and resurrection. Considering philosophy and religion are built on the premise of dealing with our own mortality, it's interesting to see how an immortal society would develop its morals, particularly if it lives next to a mortal society that has been trying to exterminate it for decades. So yeah, no shit Apocalypse is the guy they go to.
The biggest success here is seeing how not everyone is buying it or coming to terms with it, particularly Scott and Logan.
As you pointed out, as long as it remains this cohesive, this should be a fun ride like we've never seen before.

Click to shrink...

I said this in the main thread, but I think there's going to be a real generational gap between older X-Men like Logan, Scott, and Kurt and the kids that Exodus was talking to. Those are essentially elementary/pre-teen kids being taught their history, but also being propagandized to an extent. (i.e. any objective history of Scarlet Witch is going to acknowledge that she was not an antagonist or even really a "pretender" - she was as much a mutant as any other until she found out she wasn't.)

It's things like that could potentially form a divide. Mutants who remember the "old world", that mode of thinking and living (and yes, suffering) and those who are born on Krakoa or emigrate to the island at a very young age, and spend their formative/educational years there.

 

[The Adder]

As an entirely tangential aside?

Make Juggs a mutant with a super mundane power that has nothing to do with his usual power set.

"Why didn't I ever know before?"

"Cytorrak's magic masked it any time you were in possession of those powers and it's not like anyone was checking just in case when you didn't. Perfect accent comprehension and mimicry doesn't exactly stand out."

 

[Stantastic]

That sounds both fascinating and terrifying as a concept. Though I really can't blame the mutants for going this far after everything they've been through.

Click to shrink...

that is about the most succinct description of Dawn of X iv seen so far.

That's not actually addressing either of the points I was trying to make with that post. Apologies, I shall be clearer:

Making guinea pigs out of M-Day victims in order to perfect their super power prosthesis is likely to be traumatic.

Prosthetic, no matter how effective or lifelike, are not a surefire fix for the damage caused by traumatic loss of a piece of yourself.

If the goal was simply to have combat ready mutants, sure, your idea works. But if the goal is to undo as much of the damage of M-Day as possible? Not so much. Especially since it's trying to find a fix for a problem that already has one not because that fix would be more effective, but because you find it less distasteful.

Click to shrink...

To add to this, i can see any form of prosthetic mutation have some real cultural complications down the line in this place.
like here mutantdom is becoming such a focus of krakoan culture than developing such a transparently "fake" form of mutation could easily become stigmatized.

 

[Pau]

mostly exploring the ramifications of an actual mutant culture emerging

Click to shrink...

This was my biggest disappointment with the M-Day stuff: gtting rid of the "casual" mutant population so as to not have to worry about this. It's not enough to make me start picking up single issues again, but I'm really glad it's now a major theme of the books.

 

[TheMadTitan]

That's not actually addressing either of the points I was trying to make with that post. Apologies, I shall be clearer:

Making guinea pigs out of M-Day victims in order to perfect their super power prosthesis is likely to be traumatic.

Prosthetic, no matter how effective or lifelike, are not a surefire fix for the damage caused by traumatic loss of a piece of yourself.

If the goal was simply to have combat ready mutants, sure, your idea works. But if the goal is to undo as much of the damage of M-Day as possible? Not so much. Especially since it's trying to find a fix for a problem that already has one not because that fix would be more effective, but because you find it less distasteful.

Click to shrink...

But they're already making themselves guinea pigs in the resurrection process in general. Everyone's already having philosophical debates on souls and whatnot; what if some of the first mutants aren't brought back whole and later ones are. Considering no one knows the long term ramifications of these unnatural extensions of life, they're all collectively experimenting already.

Besides, they're already undergoing trauma. These people survived being depowered on M-Day and have to deal with that, and now they're being subjected to trials by fire to get powers back. Why do they have to be pounded to death by Apocalypse when they could do ritualistic euthanasia instead? You think there's not going to be nothing traumatic in getting beat to death, in watching your friends and family get beaten to death?

I mean, shit, Cannonball knew his sister was going to get revived at the end of it and he still was about three seconds away from jumping in. Now you have to account for the fact that, as Apocalypse gave Melody a chance to tap out, he or someone else will offer the same concession to others who take up the rite.

Will there not be shame for those who give up? There's trauma in that, too. Taking a super soldier serum laced with modified mutant power shit so someone who had super speed can once again have super speed with a different kind of mechanism as the source of it would be far less trauma inducing.

 

[Z-Beat]

As an entirely tangential aside?

Make Juggs a mutant with a super mundane power that has nothing to do with his usual power set.

"Why didn't I ever know before?"

"Cytorrak's magic masked it any time you were in possession of those powers and it's not like anyone was checking just in case when you didn't. Perfect accent comprehension and mimicry doesn't exactly stand out."

Click to shrink...

So Wolverine?

 

[Supermanisdead]

By the way, his name isn't Goldballs anymore. It's Egg and you will respect it.

 

[The Adder]

Besides, they're already undergoing trauma. These people survived being depowered on M-Day and have to deal with that, and now they're being subjected to trials by fire to get powers back. Why do they have to be pounded to death by Apocalypse when they could do ritualistic euthanasia instead? You think there's not going to be nothing traumatic in getting beat to death, in watching your friends and family get beaten to death?

Click to shrink...

Every mutant gets resurrected when they die. They have the option of just killing themselves by whatever means they choose, Colossus was contemplating doing just that. It just doesn't get you to the front of the line.

Will there not be shame for those who give up? There's trauma in that, too. Taking a super soldier serum laced with modified mutant power shit so someone who had super speed can once again have super speed with a different kind of mechanism as the source of it would be far less trauma inducing.

Click to shrink...

Would it be? That's not your power. That's not the piece of you that you lost. That's a substitute. And god forbid it's an inferior substitute.

So Wolverine?

Click to shrink...

I mean, at least one of his powers was directly related to the thing he's most well known for doing even before the bone claws retcon. And none of them were mundane.

 

[RiOrius]

All this stuff sounds great. Unfortunately I've found I can't enjoy content that's serialized like this and need to wait for the arc to be concluded to actually read it, but I love seeing these threads!

Have they given a reason why they can't use this process of their to make new copies? Like, just pop out a dozen Wolverines or something? Maybe some backup Goldballs and Elixirs?

Xavier and Magneto are using Mystique for their wetworks. She does so under the promise that they'll use their fancy shit to bring back Destiny, Mystique's lifelong friend/partner/spouse. They won't do it and continue to dangle that carrot in front of her because Moira McTaggart doesn't want precog or clairvoyant mutants on Krakoa.

Click to shrink...

What's the motivation behind the precog ban? Civil War 2 nonsense?

 

[Z-Beat]

I mean, at least one of his powers was directly related to the thing he's most well known for doing even before the bone claws retcon. And none of them were mundane.

Click to shrink...

Animal empathy is extremely mundane as far as mutant powers go. And the healing factor is why he could survive but I'd argue that bub snikt powers overshadowed it pretty hard until writers started getting nuts with it, like having him go up a mountain to retrieve his lower half and coming back from skeleton

 

[MadLaughter]

All this stuff sounds great. Unfortunately I've found I can't enjoy content that's serialized like this and need to wait for the arc to be concluded to actually read it, but I love seeing these threads!

Have they given a reason why they can't use this process of their to make new copies? Like, just pop out a dozen Wolverines or something? Maybe some backup Goldballs and Elixirs?


What's the motivation behind the precog ban? Civil War 2 nonsense?

Click to shrink...

They -can- make 12 copies, but seemingly very much don't want to cross that line.

As for precogs, Moira MacTaggert (who is very important to this whole new society) had a VERY bad, very important experience with one in the past, as shown in either House of X or Powers of X.

 

[Z-Beat]

By the way, his name isn't Goldballs anymore. It's Egg and you will respect it.

Click to shrink...

How can I respect someone who doesn't have enough self respect to not live life as a human magic incubator for a cult forever. There's so much more to life.

Goldballs and Kiteman 2020

Joking aside I'm guessing the writers realized writing a serious story is hard with someone named Goldballs. "Used saved mutantkind, Goldballs."

 

[Palette Swap]

All this stuff sounds great. Unfortunately I've found I can't enjoy content that's serialized like this and need to wait for the arc to be concluded to actually read it, but I love seeing these threads!

Click to shrink...

FWIW, they've been pretty good at collecting this so far. There's already a gorgeous House of X / Powers of X collection with all 12 issues that defined the new status quo.

Have they given a reason why they can't use this process of their to make new copies? Like, just pop out a dozen Wolverines or something? Maybe some backup Goldballs and Elixirs?

Click to shrink...

That's part of the original design for the Five and the resurrection engine: Xavier, Magneto and Moira very deliberately chose to forbid clones and hybrids.

What's the motivation behind the precog ban? Civil War 2 nonsense?

Click to shrink...

I don't really want to spoil it because that was such a cool part of House of X but the very existence of all this relies on someone's reincarnation power, who has lived through various timelines before reaching this one, and their kryptonite is Destiny, so they made an exception for Destiny. That's bound to bite them in the ass big time.

 

[TheMadTitan]

As an entirely tangential aside?

Make Juggs a mutant with a super mundane power that has nothing to do with his usual power set.

"Why didn't I ever know before?"

"Cytorrak's magic masked it any time you were in possession of those powers and it's not like anyone was checking just in case when you didn't. Perfect accent comprehension and mimicry doesn't exactly stand out."

Click to shrink...

If it gets Juggernaut on an X-Men team again, I'll take it.

Make his power "magic energy copying" so that he can maintain his powers and armor summoning even if cut off again.

that is about the most succinct description of Dawn of X iv seen so far.


To add to this, i can see any form of prosthetic mutation have some real cultural complications down the line in this place.
like here mutantdom is becoming such a focus of krakoan culture than developing such a transparently "fake" form of mutation could easily become stigmatized.

Click to shrink...

Every mutant gets resurrected when they die. They have the option of just killing themselves by whatever means they choose, Colossus was contemplating doing just that. It just doesn't get you to the front of the line.


Would it be? That's not your power. That's not the piece of you that you lost. That's a substitute. And god forbid it's an inferior substitute.

I mean, at least one of his powers was directly related to the thing he's most well known for doing even before the bone claws retcon. And none of them were mundane.

Click to shrink...

Stantastickind of defeated my argument with the above by reminding me that the U-Men existed at one point. Wouldn't be that much of a stretch to suggest that everything I was saying could be seen as an extension for that.

Still, the kinds of stuff I mentioned should come up at some point, even moreso now that it can tie into the U-Men.

All this stuff sounds great. Unfortunately I've found I can't enjoy content that's serialized like this and need to wait for the arc to be concluded to actually read it, but I love seeing these threads!

Have they given a reason why they can't use this process of their to make new copies? Like, just pop out a dozen Wolverines or something? Maybe some backup Goldballs and Elixirs?


What's the motivation behind the precog ban? Civil War 2 nonsense?

Click to shrink...

1. Right now, this is less of an arc and more world building, so you might be waiting awhile.

2. They absolutely can use this process for multiples, but there's ethics involving it that they don't want to cross. They're trying to preserve self. Plus, quite a few of these mutants have been cloned before, so they probably want any more clones of themselves to be as regulated as possible.

3. edit: Answered better in the above post.

 

[The Adder]

Animal empathy is extremely mundane as far as mutant powers go. And the healing factor is why he could survive but I'd argue that bub snikt powers overshadowed it pretty hard until writers started getting nuts with it, like having him go up a mountain to retrieve his lower half and coming back from skeleton

Click to shrink...

To be fair, the healing factor is why he doesn't bleed to death every time he snikt bubs.

 

[Z-Beat]

To be fair, the healing factor is why he doesn't bleed to death every time he snikt bubs.

Click to shrink...

yeah but that didn't matter until he stopped wearing gloves. Then people started asking questions

 

[Z-Beat]

When are we gonna find out that the resurrection process is super not resurrection and is actually a Star Trek teleporter situation?

 

[The Adder]

When are we gonna find out that the resurrection process is super not resurrection and is actually a Star Trek teleporter situation?

Click to shrink...

Hopefully never, because that would take all the interesting parts of the story out of the story. Every "we have discovered immortality" story ending with either "it's not actual immortality" or "it comes at some great evil cost" is boring.

Hopefully it either never goes into it, or when Magic gets back she just straight up confirms "yeah, those're the same souls. As long as you get it a new live body in a reasonable amount after death it gets put back. Now if you mess around and resurrect someone who's already alive? That'll cause complications, yeah."

 

[TheMadTitan]

When are we gonna find out that the resurrection process is super not resurrection and is actually a Star Trek teleporter situation?

Click to shrink...

Marvel has essentially laid the groundwork for it to be actual resurrection in both the X-Line and other books. HoX/PoX make it clear that Xavier is preserving astral selves in Shi'ar hard drives (astral selves being psionic souls essentially) and the Strikeforce book reference the fact that souls tend to linger when people die before they evaporate forever and tend to operate on a different frame of time to help explain the revolving door of life and death for some and not others (the others because their souls evaporated without being preserved in alien space hard drives).

They could probably just grow a new heart or lungs for someone instead of a new body and just implant their minds in their previous ones, but it's probably easier for clean slates depending on how they died, or if they have fucked up knees they want to never experience or some shit.

 

[MadLaughter]

Hopefully never, because that would take all the interesting parts of the story out of the story. Every "we have discovered immortality" story ending with either "it's not actual immortality" or "it comes at some great evil cost" is boring.

Hopefully it either never goes into it, or when Magic gets back she just straight up confirms "yeah, those're the same souls. As long as you get it a new live body in a reasonable amount after death it gets put back. Now if you mess around and resurrect someone who's already alive? That'll cause complications, yeah."

Click to shrink...

Yeah, if/when they need to knock over this Jenga tower, I hope they don't go with 'the resurrection was fake'. Especially because like half of the major x-men characters have had it happen to them already.

 

[Z-Beat]

Hopefully never, because that would take all the interesting parts of the story out of the story. Every "we have discovered immortality" story ending with either "it's not actual immortality" or "it comes at some great evil cost" is boring.

Hopefully it either never goes into it, or when Magic gets back she just straight up confirms "yeah, those're the same souls. As long as you get it a new live body in a reasonable amount after death it gets put back. Now if you mess around and resurrect someone who's already alive? That'll cause complications, yeah."

Click to shrink...

Marvel has essentially laid the groundwork for it to be actual resurrection in both the X-Line and other books. HoX/PoX make it clear that Xavier is preserving astral selves in Shi'ar hard drives (astral selves being psionic souls essentially) and the Strikeforce book reference the fact that souls tend to linger when people die before they evaporate forever and tend to operate on a different frame of time to help explain the revolving door of life and death for some and not others (the others because their souls evaporated without being preserved in alien space hard drives).

They could probably just grow a new heart or lungs for someone instead of a new body and just implant their minds in their previous ones, but it's probably easier for clean slates depending on how they died, or if they have fucked up knees they want to never experience or some shit.

Click to shrink...

You don't feel like creating true immortality is running even further away from fixing the problem of death meaning nothing in comics? Or do you prefer it this way because they're leaning into it?

 

[TheMadTitan]

Yeah, if/when they need to knock over this Jenga tower, I hope they don't go with 'the resurrection was fake'. Especially because like half of the major x-men characters have had it happen to them already.

Click to shrink...

Strikeforce and Valkyrie already cemented it as being real resurrections, so we're good.

You don't feel like creating true immortality is running even further away from fixing the problem of death meaning nothing in comics? Or do you prefer it this way because they're leaning into it?

Click to shrink...

It's a delicate balance since it can turn into a cheap trick. But the X-Men line is leaning into it by actively making death the meaningless part of the consequence, so I like it for the refreshing take. Especially since at some point, they're going to show us what happens when the investigative side of Krakoa gets it wrong and declares people dead when they're still alive.

 

[The Adder]

You don't feel like creating true immortality is running even further away from fixing the problem of death meaning nothing in comics? Or do you prefer it this way because they're leaning into it?

Click to shrink...

The latter. I very much prefer it when the media acknowledges its limitations and incorporates it into the universe.

Like over in DC, the reason Earth, a seemingly insignificant mudball out in the boonies. is important and involved in so many things is because it's literally the center of the universe in which the life entity resides. The Guardians fudged the "map" to make Oa the center partly to protect Earth and partly out of ego.

 

[Nakenorm]

Hickman.
That's all.

 

[TheMadTitan]

The latter. I very much prefer it when the media acknowledges its limitations and incorporates it into the universe.

Like over in DC, the reason Earth, a seemingly insignificant mudball out in the boonies. is important and involved in so many things is because it's literally the center of the universe in which the life entity resides. The Guardians fudged the "map" to make Oa the center partly to protect Earth and partly out of ego.

Click to shrink...

That got retconned.

Now it's because the original god of creation, Perpetua, created a race of superhumans on Earth so she can go to war against the other gods in her pantheon before she was defeated and that race was divied up into humans on Earth and Martians on Mars. And all of the shit going on was her influence on the universe attempting to manifest enough chaos so that she could free herself and use Earth and Mars to once again create her super army.

 

[TaleSpun]

They're on a island with Forge, Dr Nemesis, Beast, and Mr. Sinister.

They have the technology. And considering that superpowers can come in shots and inhaler form with MGH and Kick, those four coming up with a solution that's permanent via aerosol inhalation wouldn't be invasive, traumatic, or outside of the realm of possibility.

Click to shrink...

I think Apocalypse would say you're advocating a more human solution - specifically engineering - whereas his is a specifically developed facet of mutant culture. Building that out is of course one of Krakoa's top priorities as well.

You don't feel like creating true immortality is running even further away from fixing the problem of death meaning nothing in comics? Or do you prefer it this way because they're leaning into it?

Click to shrink...

On the contrary, Hickman has stated openly that, on a meta level, the resurrection protocols take away death as a crutch the writers can lean on to create drama. The entire point of it is to admit that deaths have been meaningless for decades and take the option off the table altogether.

 

[Pandora012]

This is totally gonna blow up in their faces.

 

[The Adder]

That got retconned.

Now it's because the original god of creation, Perpetua, created a race of superhumans on Earth so she can go to war against the other gods in her pantheon before she was defeated and that race was divied up into humans on Earth and Martians on Mars. And all of the shit going on was her influence on the universe attempting to manifest enough chaos so that she could free herself and use Earth and Mars to once again create her super army.

Click to shrink...

That is what I like to call Additive Retroactive Continuity as opposed to replacement Retroactive Continuity. As far as I know it didn't contradict any of the previous information. It just added new info on top. Perpetua's most important life projects being on Earth and Mars gives a pretty decent justification for the Life entity being on Earth, for example

 

[TaleSpun]

That is what I like to call Additive Retroactive Continuity as opposed to replacement Retroactive Continuity. As far as I know it didn't contradict any of the previous information. It just added new info on top. Perpetua's most important life projects being on Earth and Mars gives a pretty decent justification for the Life entity being on Earth, for example

Click to shrink...

"Additive" is exactly the term Hickman's been using to describe the major retcon'd in the X-men canon so far. And that is the case. Everything that has happened still happened, he's just added key context to certain things.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I think Mr Sinister has always been just a narcissist who wants attention and appreciation. And now he's getting all the praise of Xavier himself for all that DNA gathering. I bet you Sinister is completely satisfied on his throne twiddling his thumbs because he sees himself as having "won."

Click to shrink...

He's absolutely not satisfied. Honestly, read it.

These megalomaniacs are a fundamental danger because they'll never be satisfied.

 

[TheMadTitan]

That is what I like to call Additive Retroactive Continuity as opposed to replacement Retroactive Continuity. As far as I know it didn't contradict any of the previous information. It just added new info on top. Perpetua's most important life projects being on Earth and Mars gives a pretty decent justification for the Life entity being on Earth, for example

Click to shrink...

Fair, and I was going to edit the post to make that point, but, I got distracted by Netflix lol.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Hopefully never, because that would take all the interesting parts of the story out of the story. Every "we have discovered immortality" story ending with either "it's not actual immortality" or "it comes at some great evil cost" is boring.

Hopefully it either never goes into it, or when Magic gets back she just straight up confirms "yeah, those're the same souls. As long as you get it a new live body in a reasonable amount after death it gets put back. Now if you mess around and resurrect someone who's already alive? That'll cause complications, yeah."

Click to shrink...

Except many have been dead a long time.

 

[TheMadTitan]

Except many have been dead a long time.

Click to shrink...

Cerebro does backups of mutants, so even if they died years ago, their soul is preserved. And as long as it's preserved before evaporating, the person can be revived without having to break into the afterlife or anything else they used to do.

 

[Alice]

Moira is still holding a grudge against Destiny and Mystique for being burned alive in one of her previous lives.

Click to shrink...

Nah, she just knows that Precogs would get to the core of what's going on and doesn't trut anyone to take chances. Note how no one but Xavier and Mags actually knows about her being alive.

 

[RedHoodedOwl]

Nah, she just knows that Precogs would get to the core of what's going on and doesn't trut anyone to take chances. Note how no one but Xavier and Mags actually knows about her being alive.

Click to shrink...

Or it could that Moira is hiding a dark secret about this mutant utopia. Before she died, Destiny warned Mystique about Krakoa.

 

[TheMadTitan]

Or it could that Moira is hiding a dark secret about this mutant utopia. Before she died, Destiny warned Mystique about Krakoa.

Click to shrink...

Precogs will see that the plan and Krakoa fails. No Precogs, the longer they'll go on as a nation.

 

[Yams]

Start with House of X and Powers of X. They alternate. Then when those wrap up it splits into like 5-6 different titles, but you can get by just following "X-Men."

Click to shrink...

Start with the 2 miniseries House of X and Powers of X (six issues each, recently collected in a hardcover) then you can move onto this X-Men series. New Mutants, Marauders, Excalibur and X-Force also branch out from HoX/PoX if you're interested in more traditional series.

Whatever you do, DO NOT, under any circumstance, read Fallen Angels.

Click to shrink...

I read PoX and HoX just nothing after

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Cerebro does backups of mutants, so even if they died years ago, their soul is preserved. And as long as it's preserved before evaporating, the person can be revived without having to break into the afterlife or anything else they used to do.

Click to shrink...

I dislike these questions being handwaved away by Hickman. It just all feels a bit lazy.

So not only can Xavier copy minds (within his wheelhouse as a telepath) but he creates copies of souls?

I'm interested to see what the humans in Sol's Hammer are coming up with. They left that "bringing someone back from the dead" thread hanging.

 

[Sesha]

My main takeway from all that is that Molly being there in that culty scene means Marvel still hasn't learned to stop fucking with the Runaways by still allowing writers to pick them for whatever weird shit it is that they're doing, instead of picking some other random obscure characters.

Also Goldballs' gold balls being eggs is frickin dumb. Reminds me of when Marvel tried to integrate Nextwave into the main universe by trying to explain away all of its quirks. They wo't just let silly shit remain silly shit.

 

[R0b1n]

I dislike these questions being handwaved away by Hickman. It just all feels a bit lazy.

So not only can Xavier copy minds (within his wheelhouse as a telepath) but he creates copies of souls?

I'm interested to see what the humans in Sol's Hammer are coming up with. They left that "bringing someone back from the dead" thread hanging.

Click to shrink...

It's still not 100% confirmed it's their souls, but even so there's precedent (not by Hickman, but with the spider-man jackal clones) that if the body is good enough the soul will just return. It's very inconsistent, but I do expect the "are they really their OG souls thing" being addressed either in the main series or elsewhere

My main takeway from all that is that Molly being there in that culty scene means Marvel still hasn't learned to stop fucking with the Runaways by still allowing writers to pick them for whatever weird shit it is that they're doing, instead of picking some other random obscure characters.

Click to shrink...

That's molly? She's still with the runaways last I checked

edit: nope, definitely not her, there's a distinctive circle on the girl's forehead. It's some random OC I think

 

[TheMadTitan]

I dislike these questions being handwaved away by Hickman. It just all feels a bit lazy.

So not only can Xavier copy minds (within his wheelhouse as a telepath) but he creates copies of souls?

I'm interested to see what the humans in Sol's Hammer are coming up with. They left that "bringing someone back from the dead" thread hanging.

Click to shrink...

It's not copying the soul from my understanding, but copying memories and leaving a tether for the soul to latch on to once the body is recreated and the mind is implanted.

The recent Strikeforce arc had Moonstone using Spectrum to maintain the energy of a soul long enough for someone to be properly reincarnated. She wasn't successful, but it's essentially the same thing Xavier is doing with Cerebro, except he has Shi'ar tech to help him out. And access to the Astral Plane, something no one but other telepaths can hop into.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

It's not copying the soul from my understanding, but copying memories and leaving a tether for the soul to latch on to once the body is recreated and the mind is implanted.

The recent Strikeforce arc had Moonstone using Spectrum to maintain the energy of a soul long enough for someone to be properly reincarnated. She wasn't successful, but it's essentially the same thing Xavier is doing with Cerebro, except he has Shi'ar tech to help him out. And access to the Astral Plane, something no one but other telepaths can hop into.

Click to shrink...

But that brings me back to my original point in which I responded to "The Adder". They said that as long as a body is created in enough time. I don't know if that's accurate as there's only a couple of X books I read now. Many of those mutants have been dead a long time, certainly before anyone thought to preserve a soul for reincarnation.

And what about multiple copies. Does the soul split or does it just inhabit one? It still raises a lot of issues.

 

[JDSN]

The last panel before -A- does the final blow shows Xavier making the mind copy of Melody, which means reborn mutants remember getting mauled to death by one of the scariest fucking mutants ever.

 

[TheMadTitan]

But that brings me back to my original point in which I responded to "The Adder". They said that as long as a body is created in enough time. I don't know if that's accurate as there's only a couple of X books I read now. Many of those mutants have been dead a long time, certainly before anyone thought to preserve a soul for reincarnation.

And what about multiple copies. Does the soul split or does it just inhabit one? It still raises a lot of issues.

Click to shrink...

I don't think anyone else has the means of doing immediate backups of memories and snatching minds and souls other than telepaths. The Red Room did essentially the same thing with Black Widow, but that was only with memories. The only reason why her soul came back is because they did it soon enough based on all of these rules.

Since Xavier is literally preserving people with Cerebro, time is likely not a factor. Those trying to do the same without Cerebro are the ones bound by a time limit. Anyone who is a skilled telepath would be intimately familiar with astral plane stuff, astral forms, souls, and whatnot. But based on Strikeforce, Monica Rambeau was surprised and struggled to hold on to a soul for a few moments. I'm sure she'd learn and develop her own brand of snatch and grabs, but she has no real means of preserving, nor does she have the capability to immediately know someone is dead so as to preserve them.

Multiple copies and the soul is exactly why X-Factor exists; to investigate mutant disappearances and deaths so they can avoid these things when it comes to resurrections.

But to the earlier statement, thanks to House of X, Xavier has been preserving souls from the very beginning. The reason this Krakoa plan is only happening now without invalidating everything else is that Magneto and Xavier had a falling out over the plan to explain their years of conflict, and only just gotten over themselves to make it happen. So because of everything, Cerebro was always a machine that backed up and preserved mutant minds and souls the moment they got the Shi'ar technology to make it happen.

Once the in-fighting stopped, they got the DNA library from Sinister to pull it all off.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I don't think anyone else has the means of doing immediate backups of memories and snatching minds and souls other than telepaths. The Red Room did essentially the same thing with Black Widow, but that was only with memories. The only reason why her soul came back is because they did it soon enough based on all of these rules.

Since Xavier is literally preserving people with Cerebro, time is likely not a factor. Those trying to do the same without Cerebro are the ones bound by a time limit. Anyone who is a skilled telepath would be intimately familiar with astral plane stuff, astral forms, souls, and whatnot. But based on Strikeforce, Monica Rambeau was surprised and struggled to hold on to a soul for a few moments. I'm sure she'd learn and develop her own brand of snatch and grabs, but she has no real means of preserving, nor does she have the capability to immediately know someone is dead so as to preserve them.

Multiple copies and the soul is exactly why X-Factor exists; to investigate mutant disappearances and deaths so they can avoid these things when it comes to resurrections.

But to the earlier statement, thanks to House of X, Xavier has been preserving souls from the very beginning. The reason this Krakoa plan is only happening now without invalidating everything else is that Magneto and Xavier had a falling out over the plan to explain their years of conflict, and only just gotten over themselves to make it happen. So because of everything, Cerebro was always a machine that backed up and preserved mutant minds and souls the moment they got the Shi'ar technology to make it happen.

Once the in-fighting stopped, they got the DNA library from Sinister to pull it all off.

Click to shrink...

So it does preserve souls? I'm a bit confused about conflicting information here, but I'll leave it and let the comics address these things.

 

[TheMadTitan]

So it does preserve souls? I'm a bit confused about conflicting information here, but I'll leave it and let the comics address these things.

Click to shrink...

Xavier's process does, not for anyone else, which is why no one else can just up and revive a shit ton of people who were dead for extended periods of time. The mutants perfected the resurrection process to the point where Death was about to give up on the universe and leave it to fester and rot in Valkyrie #7.

 

[Alice]

"Additive" is exactly the term Hickman's been using to describe the major retcon'd in the X-men canon so far. And that is the case. Everything that has happened still happened, he's just added key context to certain things.

Click to shrink...

What did Hicks actually retcon? I haven't seen anything he retconned. He even ran with Moira's death.

 

[Platy]

Click to shrink...

...that is cloning, not ressurrection.
There is a BIG difference considering people are willing to die to be reborn ...