Xbox Game Studios |OT6| I'M BACK (TO RISE)

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,938

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
1,554
I didn’t say there would never be next gen exclusives. I said there wouldn’t be any reason for them to exist at launch. And even in 2-3 years I expect the vast majority of games to be scalable. It takes awhile to build new game engines around new hardware and then implement that stuff in a way that makes sense within a game.

Gamers also are underestimating how much of the new headroom is going to get eaten up by the low hanging, scalable fruit like ray tracing, double frame rates, increased particle and cloth effects, increased detail, etc is going to use.

Physics scale. We’ve seen that with Nvidas PhysX. Ray tracing is a resource hog.

1st gen/cross gen games will sell new consoles due to double frame rate, Ray Tracing and low load times alone.
I will probably remain old school on this. I believe that if you are making hardware and selling people to buy it, then it must be a huge improvement on the 7 years old tech that you are running. The only thing that differentiates the two is software.

Sony/Microsoft are not just any publisher, they are platform holders, and in most cases, they make those games that define the platform. People can talk scalability, the cost to things like particle effects etc. My question will always be simple, why do we have a new console generation if the idea is to support the old console that launched with outdated tech (CPU), or a GPU that had 50% fewer compute units to the competition.

Give me those low hanging fruits from day one. And if Microsoft is silly, taking that Boeing approach of win now and figure it out later, then they will eventually cannibalize their own sales as there will be those that see no need to upgrade.

People can call it anti-consumer, but there is no reason why people investing in new tech should be getting games built on Jaguar, the base Polaris GPU and the ESRAM solution. No reason at all when there is a console to run those games at 4K.
There is not a single good reason apart from 'Microsoft will make more money.'
 

Klobrille

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,166
Germany
So do you consider Xbox Game Studios Publishing to be a studio?
It doesn't matter what I consider. What matters is what Xbox says.




https://www.resetera.com/threads/xbox-game-studios-ot5-the-cult-of-phil-in-the-age-of-booty-a-case-study.116768/post-21971795

https://www.resetera.com/threads/xbox-game-studios-ot4-when-everyone-plays-we-all-win.94058/post-18086856

Can't find anything older haha ;-)
 
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Ratzk

Member
Apr 3, 2018
51
Totally missed that. Thanks.

Genuinely surprised/disappointed that the Xbox community makes up such a small portion.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,938
I will probably remain old school on this. I believe that if you are making hardware and selling people to buy it, then it must be a huge improvement on the 7 years old tech that you are running. The only thing that differentiates the two is software.

Sony/Microsoft are not just any publisher, they are platform holders, and in most cases, they make those games that define the platform. People can talk scalability, the cost to things like particle effects etc. My question will always be simple, why do we have a new console generation if the idea is to support the old console that launched with outdated tech (CPU), or a GPU that had 50% fewer compute units to the competition.

Give me those low hanging fruits from day one. And if Microsoft is silly, taking that Boeing approach of win now and figure it out later, then they will eventually cannibalize their own sales as there will be those that see no need to upgrade.

People can call it anti-consumer, but there is no reason why people investing in new tech should be getting games built on Jaguar, the base Polaris GPU and the ESRAM solution. No reason at all when there is a console to run those games at 4K.
There is not a single good reason apart from 'Microsoft will make more money.'
The games will be different. I’d argue double frame rates, low load times, extra physics and Ray tracing is a very different experience for the enthusiast. Anything else will take time.

To be clear, I’m a console gamer and Xbox is my primary platform. Even though I’m more excited about next gen than I’ve been since the OG Xbox launched, just trying to mentally prepare people who are going to freak out due to cross gen games...when they shouldn’t. Not if they understood why.

Sony will likely be the first publisher that creates games that won’t play on this gen hardware however they have a different business model and have had games in dev for years with a focus on Zen CPUs and the modifies SSDs.

Sounds great on paper but I’ve come to realize in my almost 4 decades of gaming that there’s less and less correlation between my enjoyment of a game and whether it doubles as a tech demo. Graphics scale. Everything else can’t be doing new things for the sake of doing new things without a well balanced game. Those types of games that mesh being technically next level while being driven by creative people take a lot of time to make.
 

KirikaPirin

Banned
Jun 6, 2019
217
It doesn't matter what I consider. What matters is what Xbox says.






https://www.resetera.com/threads/xbox-game-studios-ot5-the-cult-of-phil-in-the-age-of-booty-a-case-study.116768/post-21971795

https://www.resetera.com/threads/xbox-game-studios-ot4-when-everyone-plays-we-all-win.94058/post-18086856

Can't find anything older haha ;-)
Xbox says there are 15 studios as of now. What's the 16th one? Are you teasing an announcement at XO19?
 

knightmawk

Member
Dec 12, 2018
1,414
Just give me that japanese studio and I'm happy XD
*two Japanese studios. Nothing in isolation boys.

Personally, I'm hoping for White Owls and an RPG studio. If I'm getting really squirrely, I'll say two RPG studios, and if I'm getting next level bold kind of squirrely, I'll throw in an action game studio.

It's good that, with PC and soon with Streaming, Xbox studios aren't restricted to just Xbox consoles. Xbox One sold pretty crap in Japan for sure, but PC has been picking up steam there lately and basically everyone is doing something on their phones on the train. Obviously they're playing mostly mobile games, but if Xbox get the suspend behavior down so you can play in little bites and close the app but then come back later to the same spot, streaming could do pretty well in Japan.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,938
Totally missed that. Thanks.

Genuinely surprised/disappointed that the Xbox community makes up such a small portion.
Me too. Shows importance of future cross play everything and Microsoft expanding their software and services on PC. As a console first gamer and Game Pass whore, I realize how important PC is to financially supporting my preferred platform.
 

Ratzk

Member
Apr 3, 2018
51
Activision treating xbox users as 2nd class citizens since the launch of the first Destiny will have that effect.
Oh, no doubt. I was on PS4 for the entirety of D1 and I can't say I would have blamed anyone for deciding to pass based on the exclusivity deals.

Guess it makes sense though. Spent the last few nights yelling at the screen because the matchmaking pool for PVP seemed frustratingly small.
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,708
Embarrassing ..

If we’re going strictly by the business viability as many of you are:

Did any of you see the Destiny 2 active users numbers? Anyone notice the giant gap between Xbox and PC? Having games scale so that they reach a large number of PC gaming machines is more critical to expanding Game Pass than pushing people from S to Scarlett. Especially if Scarlett is sold at a loss or with minimal margin...which most consoles are at launch. It’s important to expand the reach of every new IP and Game Pass...not artificially try to reduce it in order to force people to get the better performing box.

I also believe there’s a great chance that Cyberpunk’s Scarlett and PS5 version will be more technically impressive than almost anything else out at next gens launch. I mention this because Cyberpunk obviously will have version on current gen hardware.
Isn't the fact that next gen is tied to x86 makes it far, far more scalable than ever before? I don't understand why some people insist on die on that hill that states exclusive hardware makes miles of difference over a multi-gen title?

Its kind of like Apple vs Android. Was there truly a massive difference between high end Android phones and Apple devices?
 
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OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,938
Oh, no doubt. I was on PS4 for the entirety of D1 and I can't say I would have blamed anyone for deciding to pass based on the exclusivity deals.

Guess it makes sense though. Spent the last few nights yelling at the screen because the matchmaking pool for PVP seemed frustratingly small.
I passed on Destiny 1, quickly bailed on D2 (until they broke up) and have avoided COD due to the deals. Have a PS4 but Xbox’s Controller is superior for FPS. Hoping if that’s where Ybarra goes, that bullshit stops. Might make me consider buying Activision games again.
 

PianoBlack

Member
May 24, 2018
207
This will seem like a dumb question, but do we know for sure the XCloud is going to implement Scarlett server blades at or around launch? If not a definite, is there any reason to believe they'll do that rather than sticking with the current One S blades?
No idea if available at launch. Of course over time they will upgrade to Scarlett-capable blades.

The discussion about no Scarlett exclusives is weird to me. Like, yeah, they made Dead Rising run on the Wii. But it sucked because it literally could not run the game as designed with hundreds of enemies in memory and on screen. Not sure that's what you want the image of your platform to be - sad reviews of Xbox One S doing a bad imitation of a Scarlett game. It's not just lowering the resolution.
 

doncabesa

Member
Jun 27, 2018
429
I passed on Destiny 1, quickly bailed on D2 (until they broke up) and have avoided COD due to the deals. Have a PS4 but Xbox’s Controller is superior for FPS. Hoping if that’s where Ybarra goes, that bullshit stops. Might make me consider buying Activision games again.
Mike is a software UI guy, I doubt he'd go to Activision and have any sway over their bullshit exclusivity deals with Sony.
 

doncabesa

Member
Jun 27, 2018
429
No idea if available at launch. Of course over time they will upgrade to Scarlett-capable blades.

The discussion about no Scarlett exclusives is weird to me. Like, yeah, they made Dead Rising run on the Wii. But it sucked because it literally could not run the game as designed with hundreds of enemies in memory and on screen. Not sure that's what you want the image of your platform to be - sad reviews of Xbox One S doing a bad imitation of a Scarlett game. It's not just lowering the resolution.
Sony and Microsoft are not going to immediately abandon their respective ps4 and xbox one install bases. It makes no economic sense and would be far worse PR than "hey the base versions are kinda shit!" instead of "I just bought this system last year and now nothing new is coming out for it!!!!" x86 based hardware makes it far easier than it ever was in the past to keep release parity for a decent while.
 

harSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,772
It doesn't matter what I consider. What matters is what Xbox says.






https://www.resetera.com/threads/xbox-game-studios-ot5-the-cult-of-phil-in-the-age-of-booty-a-case-study.116768/post-21971795

https://www.resetera.com/threads/xbox-game-studios-ot4-when-everyone-plays-we-all-win.94058/post-18086856

Can't find anything older haha ;-)
I was just trying to back in to whether you believe there'd be 1 or 2 announcements this year :)
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,938
Embarrassing ..



Isn't the fact that next gen is tied to x86 makes it far, far more scalable than ever before? I don't understand why some people to die on that hill that states exclusive hardware makes miles of difference over a multi-gen title?
Yes. And game engines also have advanced to consider scalability. Every bit of funding for every new tech considers scalability because the potential consumer reach of the new tech determines the R&D budget.

Nothing in big business decisions exists in a vacuum...or is based on past environments. Most limiting barrier for innovation in game development is money, not tech. The greater the potential for big returns, the more money and prioritization on innovation. It’s why I argue that gaming enthusiasts need to stop shunning people who aren’t buying what they’re buying and they need to stop arguing for projects to be focused towards very limited bases of consumers. The technology today is more scalable than ever before and that’s a good thing for devs, the business of gaming and in the end...us gamers.
 

Klobrille

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,166
Germany
I was just trying to back in to whether you believe there'd be 1 or 2 announcements this year :)
Oh, just ask me in that case :) I'm pretty sure I can state my opinion just like everyone else :) I think there is one coming at X019. I have some reasons to believe there will be one, but again, it's just my opinion. Nothing I would predict or anything.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,938
Mike is a software UI guy, I doubt he'd go to Activision and have any sway over their bullshit exclusivity deals with Sony.
You’re probably right. Would be nice if he got expanded pull there. He’s always been very customer focused. I’m a Mike Ybarra fan and am bummed he’s no longer heading my favorite gaming service. Just trying to rationalize a potential bright side.
 

Xumbrega

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,651
Brasil
Destiny 2 is amazing right now... speaking of it, I know people do not want XGS making more GaaS-MP oriented games but I really want to see a XGS take on a "Loot and Shoot" genre, I learned to love "loot and grind" games with Diablo 2 back in the day, while I am excited for Minecraft Dungeons, I doubt it will have much depths in its systems, Sea of Thieves is kinda right there as well in the grinding "genre" but its more of a "light" take as well, I can't be the only one right? I wonder what XGS could pull this off.
 
Nov 23, 2018
247
Oh, just ask me in that case :) I'm pretty sure I can state my opinion just like everyone else :) I think there is one coming at X019. I have some reasons to believe there will be one, but again, it's just my opinion. Nothing I would predict or anything.
15 is incredible compared to previous years. 16 would be nice (assuming the studio fits and can find success).

I am really ready for the games (especially after the amazing Gears 5). 😄
 

Firenoh

Member
Mar 7, 2019
1,115
Destiny 2 is amazing right now... speaking of it, I know people do not want XGS making more GaaS-MP oriented games but I really want to see a XGS take on a "Loot and Shoot" genre, I learned to love "loot and grind" games with Diablo 2 back in the day, while I am excited for Minecraft Dungeons, I doubt it will have much depths in its systems, Sea of Thieves is kinda right there as well in the grinding "genre" but its more of a "light" take as well, I can't be the only one right? I wonder what XGS could pull this off.
Fuck, everyone is making shlooters nowadays. No need to toss more studios into the fray.
 

PianoBlack

Member
May 24, 2018
207
Sony and Microsoft are not going to immediately abandon their respective ps4 and xbox one install bases. It makes no economic sense and would be far worse PR than "hey the base versions are kinda shit!" instead of "I just bought this system last year and now nothing new is coming out for it!!!!" x86 based hardware makes it far easier than it ever was in the past to keep release parity for a decent while.
I never said they would. They can release both cross gen games and exclusives.
 

harSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,772
15 is incredible compared to previous years. 16 would be nice (assuming the studio fits and can find success).

I am really ready for the games (especially after the amazing Gears 5). 😄
It's pretty much night and day, and I don't even think you can gauge these studios based off of their recent history - since Microsoft has pumped so many resources into all of them.
 
Nov 23, 2018
247
Agreed. I think the position XGS today is in is pretty comfortable, with everything that gets added from now on being the icing on the cake.
Seems like several new studios fell into XGS’ lap. Now XGS can pick and choose how they wish to proceed without pressure.

With new and old studios still growing, we may see 3-4 teams (or more) within each studio. IP utilization and creation should be very diverse.
 

Xumbrega

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,651
Brasil
And Anthem, Revenant, Breakpoint, Risk of Rain 2
Even Apex in a scavenger sorta way.
Yeah, I guess I forgot Anthem, Breakpoint is Rainbow Six? I didn't know they made loot in the game, remnant, and risk of rain 2 I don't think anyone thinks this is some competition to Borderlands or Division or Destiny really, the genre is still not where it should be and I want XGS to try since Xbox always was an MP powerhouse, oh well.
 

Taylo207

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,983
Destiny 2 is amazing right now... speaking of it, I know people do not want XGS making more GaaS-MP oriented games but I really want to see a XGS take on a "Loot and Shoot" genre, I learned to love "loot and grind" games with Diablo 2 back in the day, while I am excited for Minecraft Dungeons, I doubt it will have much depths in its systems, Sea of Thieves is kinda right there as well in the grinding "genre" but its more of a "light" take as well, I can't be the only one right? I wonder what XGS could pull this off.
Honestly no? Destiny and Warframe are in a good place right now, but it took them what five years to get there? (Both were train wrecks at launch) If an XGS dev were to do an MMORPG it would be a massive undertaking and would most likely require the entire team to work on it, and I don’t we would see another game from said dev for at least 5-10 years.
 

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,511
XGS hopefully plays a bigger part also right at the start. Hopefully we get games like Sunset Overdrive with some big devs.
 

Biggzy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
99
Totally missed that. Thanks.

Genuinely surprised/disappointed that the Xbox community makes up such a small portion.
Why are you surprised? The Xbox and PS users are split almost 2:1 which is sort of in line with the sales of the two consoles.

Seems like a lot of PC users are trying out the game for the first time.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
1,554
The games will be different. I’d argue double frame rates, low load times, extra physics and Ray tracing is a very different experience for the enthusiast. Anything else will take time.

To be clear, I’m a console gamer and Xbox is my primary platform. Even though I’m more excited about next gen than I’ve been since the OG Xbox launched, just trying to mentally prepare people who are going to freak out due to cross gen games...when they shouldn’t. Not if they understood why.

Sony will likely be the first publisher that creates games that won’t play on this gen hardware however they have a different business model and have had games in dev for years with a focus on Zen CPUs and the modifies SSDs.

Sounds great on paper but I’ve come to realize in my almost 4 decades of gaming that there’s less and less correlation between my enjoyment of a game and whether it doubles as a tech demo. Graphics scale. Everything else can’t be doing new things for the sake of doing new things without a well balanced game. Those types of games that mesh being technically next level while being driven by creative people take a lot of time to make.
Companies lose ground because of two things: hubris and short term thinking, in a majority of cases, a combination of both to varying degrees.

Microsoft and Sony not long ago launched mid generation consoles, and they sold gamers to this platform as having the ability to play those games you love in better fidelity. Microsoft has really tried going the distance in having better frame rates. How do you then release a new console and market it as you did the Pro or X? It is a nightmare. I am glad that Sony for one has stated that they want a clean break.

And then you look at just how little we advanced since last generation in terms of things like AI. This new generation is supposed to bring with it more refined AI, more NPC's and my hope is that we start seeing worlds that have things like weather, day and night cycles being more a norm. Just have developers dream about making games that they could not under the technical limitations of the previous generation, this is why people for the most part buy new consoles.

This does not mean that it will guarantee a better gaming experience from scratch. I have been playing for close to three decades, some of my favorite entrants on some series are not even in the current generation e.g. Tekken 5, Tekken 3, Gran Turismo 4, Dead or Alive 4, Resident Evil 5, Fallout: New Vegas, Assassin's Creed 2 etc. There are some changes that have been great for some games, some not so much when it comes to balancing. At the end of the day though, I want to see what a new generation brings, and I would love to see all those teething problems done with early in the generation..

If there are gamers that do not want to make the jump, then let them fall behind. This has always been the driving force when it comes to gaming.....I honestly do not want to be two or three years into a generation and still playing games that are built to function on a 9/10 year under-powered tablet CPU that was in itself trash in 2013.

Microsoft may have ambitions to scale games to PC and Mobile, but at the very end, console will be their go to platform as they build traction on other markets. They messed up the XB1 launch, and the messaging behind cross platform games heading two or three years deep into next gen is something that they will struggle to spin. Sony are not novices either, so they will take advantage of this.
 
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Ratzk

Member
Apr 3, 2018
51
Why are you surprised? The Xbox and PS users are split almost 2:1 which is sort of in line with the sales of the two consoles.

Seems like a lot of PC users are trying out the game for the first time.
I'm not surprised there's a discrepancy. Just surprised at how large it is now that there's been an exodus from console to PC, and how hard it's seemingly hit the Xbox population.

I thought I recalled seeing pre-cross save numbers that showed the PS4/Xbox D2 population was much closer than the 2:1 console disparity would have you believe.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
TLOU, GT6 were PS3 games, not launch PS4 games. Huge difference.

Although I have to say that the endless remasters were not my cup of tea.
Halo infinite is an Xbox one game. They’ve said as much. It was never stated to be a next gen game and then ported down. It’s been 5 years of dev time. There’s no difference. Basically your argument is that if halo were to come out 4 months earlier and then get a remaster there would be no issue
 

knightmawk

Member
Dec 12, 2018
1,414
I'm sticking with my theory that I've had for a while. Cross gen and forward compatibility will be achieved with partial streaming.

A single home Xbox One can handle the graphics or whatever it can handle with its hardware, and the rest can be off loaded to the cloud, clusters or however they achieve it. Like destruction in Crackdown 3, or map data in Flight Simulator. To play Scarlett games on Xbox One will require an internet connection, but not the same kind of internet connection fully streaming the game would require. Everybody wins.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,871
Maybe MS doesn't need any more studios?

They have 15? That's a shit load of new content coming when all those studios start firing on all cylinders.
 

Ushay

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,708
Destiny 2 is amazing right now... speaking of it, I know people do not want XGS making more GaaS-MP oriented games but I really want to see a XGS take on a "Loot and Shoot" genre, I learned to love "loot and grind" games with Diablo 2 back in the day, while I am excited for Minecraft Dungeons, I doubt it will have much depths in its systems, Sea of Thieves is kinda right there as well in the grinding "genre" but its more of a "light" take as well, I can't be the only one right? I wonder what XGS could pull this off.
Open world Halo game. 3rd person looter shooter type with class system. Custom made ODST Spartans. On various worlds.

That would bring in serious numbers to Game Pass.