You'll be able to play Scarlett exclusives on the One through Xcloud, but there will definitely be games that you'll need a Scarlett to play locally.
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Xbox Game Studios |OT6| I'M BACK (TO RISE)
- Thread starter Figments
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What? Aren't they making all games playable via XCloud?
Well I'll give you credit for sticking with that but ain't gonna happen. I'd do a friendly avatar bet if it was closer to launch but at this point in time no one will remember or care.
I really curious how The Coalition will handle Left and Right in the next game. They are two entirely different directions for the story!
Innovation and advancements in technology are not limited to forcing people to buy a specific plastic box with exclusives. Advancements in tech will continue to happen and consumers will continue to upgrade their consoles and PCs regardless. By the logic that consoles are worthless without exclusives, new GPUs and CPUs wouldn't sell. New phones and tablets wouldn't sell. Most tech consumers buy the newest tech because they want better features and performance. In 2020 if you buy a Scarlett, every game in your existing and future library will be able to perform better and have much lower load times. I'd argue there's more value at launch with everything being cross gen than with that clean break. Communities are bigger. Friends stay together. Profit potential is greater for publishers meaning they can invest more in development for games launching on next gen.
In gaming, we've trained each other that the value of our hardware is based on what we limit others to who choose different hardware. Gaming enthusiasts have been advocating anti-consumer practices in the name of console wars for years and it would be great if it stopped. There's not going to be a damned game that launches in 2020 that's not scalable to older hardware.
Orrrr, what if you only have to partially stream them?
We know Microsoft has been working on a way to shard those things, and we saw it in Crackdown and now Flight Simulator. So what if graphics can be handled by the Xbox One, but advanced physics and world simulation is handled in the cloud.
It's my prediction because I think it makes sense but I can't guarantee there won't be anti-consumer decisions in the name of what console enthusiasts are clamoring for. We are not going to get more advanced launch games just because the previous gen gets cut out. It takes 3-5 years of working on new tech to understand how to really take advantage of the newest features that allow innovation beyond the previous gen.
The suggestion that Microsoft doesn't need to sell consoles anymore is weird to me. I completely agree they are all about the services now, but to sell a service you need an entry point for people. They have the following:
xCloud : currently pushed as a supplement to existing users of ecosystem. Immature market, unlikely to do significant numbers for years
PC : presumably a small part of the Xbox ecosystem.
Xbox One : presumably an overwhelming part of the Xbox ecosystem.
The success of their services is tied directly to the number of consoles they sell, at least for the foreseeable future.
I had no idea they were going to do this! Such a crazy decision they gave us. I'm sure they know what they're doing for Gears 6. You can tell this was just a tease for what they're going into for Gears 6
There was a recent Matt Booty interview where he admitted that it would theoretically be possible to run Scarlett games on the 360, using x cloud. He was was asked if it could be done and, whilst he admitted they hadn't thought of it, said there was no technological reasons stopping it.
All of MS tech is scalable. Just like PC. The same would actually be true for Sony. If you scale the graphics back enough youd easily get TLOU 2 running on a PS3, for example. It's just that the old way of doing things meant locking new games to the newer box.
The idea that games simply cannot run on the previous generation's tech was just a sales thing. Gears 5 could run on 360 if they potato moded it enough. Ryse could have run on the 360. It just wouldn't have looked as good.
The days are over where a new console explodes onto the scene with launch games that the seller says "simply cannot run on the old console". If either Sony or MS say that at launch, they're lying.
So Scarlett games will either simply be scaled back until they work or run on x cloud for higher fidelity.
As others have suggested elsewhere. MS could literally sell only 10 Scarlett consoles but if they end up with 75m GP subs across Scarlett, Bone and PC they'll be laughing their asses off. They'll also be capable of cutting edge graphics as well. Remenber that we'll soon be playing Gears 5 on a phone without even needing to buy a console.
I was under the impression that IoI owned the rights to the Hitman IP, so why would that have been a point of contention for an acquisition? Unless the thought is that IoI wanted to retain the rights even if they were too eventually spin back out as an independent studio again. I guess I could see that, since they were so keen on keeping the IP in the first place.
This gets taken way out of context. Consoles are still a leg of the stool. An important one in that many enthusiasts will only be willing to access the Xbox ecosystem through a console. What's not important is moving someone from the S to the Scarlett in 2020 if that S gamer is heavily engaged in the ecosystem.
I've read some bad takes before but saying having exclusive games for a console at the launch of that console is anti-consumer is one of the worst takes I've heard.
Why make better computers if you're held back by old computers? You're not held back, it's 3 set power levels and they build around that for a few years and eventually they phase out the one/ps4 as both move forward. They're not throwing out 10's of millions of users until they have a large foundation of users on the newer consoles. They do not care about selling the systems as much as they do in selling the software and services around them. Phil has made this abundantly clear. "I don't care where you play our stuff, just that you do".
Don't bother. He obviously knows that. It seems that user only comes in here to stir up s**t. His previous post in this same thread got him banned for a week (for trolling).
Regarding the last part of tour post, I wonder how many devs MS plans to acquire. With the increasing competition from Apple and Google they have to make sure Game Pass offers quality 1P content/variety and that means growing in-house teams even more.
Nah, this is not something I can agree with.
Do you remember what GTA was before the PS2? The jump from GT2 to GT3? What Team Ninja was able to accomplish on the Dreamcast with DoA2. All of those were huge advancements made possible because new tech was being taken advantage of. It was the tech that enabled not only these games, but far more to really start pushing the boundaries.
Last generation, that moment was Bioshock, and then Gears of War and some years later it was Forza Motorsport 3, then 4 on the 360, Killzone 2 and Uncharted on the PS3. We have just gone through a generation where we had tablet CPU's that severely limited what developers could do especially when you looked at games like Just Cause or Assassin's Creed that would have done with a better CPU.
If all I want is to play base Xbox One games better, then there is hardware specifically built for that. Just thinking that you can invest on a base Xbox One, get the Xbox One X to play games at better resolution and higher frame rates, then have a new console that does what the XB1X does is something I cannot justify.
A new generation should not be marketed or worse, sold as a console that can simply load current gen games faster. Microsoft and Sony are not the normal publisher. If they are launching a product, they have to have content out on it that justifies its purchase....no need harping about how well they have designed the console, what it can do and then bring out previous gen games.
I like what Microsoft does in gaming. They have made my to go to console three generations in a row. They are still my first option next gen. That said, I cannot reconcile releasing a new product to play games designed on hardware they are replacing.......and make no mistake about it, Scarlett is there to replace the Xbox One.
The games are built to scale... they're not "held back" by old consoles in the same way pc games aren't. They're built to try and work on everything, and the top tier gets the best version. It's all x86 and they can turn on/turn off features as need be to make it work on old hardware, while not ignoring innovation on the new hardware.
1)Nintendo needed only Botw, plus on scarlet and ps5 there will be ac, cod, the sports game and maybe a new battlefield at d1. I would prefer a more long term strategy
2)they talked of five years of works, production started in 2016 and about 150 devs on french side, not counting the Redmond team. The budget is definitely AAA, maybe not rockstar AAA
Genre defined community are under represented here on era, but those crowds are more precious than the average gamer in the age of gaas
And overall this way of counting is not respectful of realities like PGG and InXile with different studios in different locations, the ones like NT, Double Fine and Mojang separated in several teams and Global Publishing.
Simply people needs to compare those to the sony management model for the list wars, but doesn't reflect how those studios works(the same could be said for Sony Japan Studio)
How do you count Age of Empires?
Previous gens don't compare because of:
- Diminishing returns
- Machine Learning
- Scalability of todays game engines
- Advancements in tools
- Console architecture matching PC
Nothing for PS2 or Dreamcast launches was more impressive or more technically advanced than anything I was playing on PC the year prior. What you're talking about was based on the limitation and hardships going from one console gen to another. Doesn't translate to today
Plus as far as older systems holding back the new SSD's on the ps5/scarlett, I play bfv on xbox and it's a minute to load most maps. If I watch someone with a killer pc like Shroud load into a match on pc it's 2 or 3 seconds. It's already built into the tech to take advantage of SSD's on pc and they'll do that same thing with xbox one/ps4. they still load like slow garbage and ps5/xbox one get the far superior loading versions and a year or two in they say no more to parity on old/new console release parity and we move on. it's not crazy to think they're going to do everything they can to maximize the xbox one/ps4 lifespans since they can't do 500 hd remaster releases again because of BC.
Age of Empires is a new studio, like explained on the previous page. Just like MS counts it. Maybe it'll "feel" more like that once the studio had its own name soon.
Gears 5 already runs at 4k60 on the One X, addiing in raytracing, higher res textures and faster loading times does not make it a generational leap in graphics as a game designed for Scarlett would look. It certainly doesn't make a current PS4 owner consider switching to Xbox at the start of the generation where Xbox can start selling them their services.
PS has double the userbase of Xbox which is double the amount of people to hypothetcially sell Game Pass to. If Sony is making PS5 exclusive technical showcases and MS is only making cross gen games then Sony will be getting all the gamer mindshare and MS will end up with a smaller userbase to sell services to for the next few years. This idea that it's not important to sell boxes anymore is silly.
PS has double the userbase of Xbox which is double the amount of people to hypothetcially sell Game Pass to. If Sony is making PS5 exclusive technical showcases and MS is only making cross gen games then Sony will be getting all the gamer mindshare and MS will end up with a smaller userbase to sell services to for the next few years. This idea that it's not important to sell boxes anymore is silly.
If Sony has exclusive PS5 games at launch that would be the best thing to happen for Xbox
If you ask me, the entire concept of Game Pass makes gaming, especially for those of us that play more than 8 hours a week, much more palatable.
I think Scarlett, for the first time presents a model where going up in hardware isn't prohibitive at all. You don't lose anything by doing so, in fact its beneficial and you can hang on to your entire library with full reach into the last 3 generations of games, its incredible. MS approach to accessibility (for me at least) and their willingness to adapt and change their approach to a service based one is going to propel them next gen.
I think Scarlett, for the first time presents a model where going up in hardware isn't prohibitive at all. You don't lose anything by doing so, in fact its beneficial and you can hang on to your entire library with full reach into the last 3 generations of games, its incredible. MS approach to accessibility (for me at least) and their willingness to adapt and change their approach to a service based one is going to propel them next gen.
Don't discount Xcloud and PC. My prediction is there will be more Xcloud and PC Game Pass subscriptions than console within the next 2 years.
Honestly, I think that some titles will be "Scarlett Launch Exclusive" and will make their way to the Xbox One and/or Pc within 6 months. Think like when Twilight Princess launched a month early on Wii before making its way to GameCube.
I think most of the big titles will be cross-platform day 1 (Halo, Forza, etc.), but it wouldn't surprise me if Double Fine, Ninja Theory, Obsidian, InXile and/or Compulsion make some smaller launch titles to show off the power of the system, that make their way to Xbox One and PC later. I think as well it's a question of what can run at least locally, as I don't think Ryse could run on an Xbox 360. This is where Xcloud comes into play.
I think most of the big titles will be cross-platform day 1 (Halo, Forza, etc.), but it wouldn't surprise me if Double Fine, Ninja Theory, Obsidian, InXile and/or Compulsion make some smaller launch titles to show off the power of the system, that make their way to Xbox One and PC later. I think as well it's a question of what can run at least locally, as I don't think Ryse could run on an Xbox 360. This is where Xcloud comes into play.
What are you talking about? Seriously?
No one, absolutely no one is supporting old PC's to infinity. If you want to remain with an old PC, running something like Windows XP, then it runs. But at some moment in time, Microsoft stops patching it, you start getting applications that are not configured to run on the OS, and developers keep upping the minimum requirements for games to a point where you cannot run anything other that mobile style games on that hardware.
Why are people behaving as if it is any different just because we have Halo Infinite being cross gen? And stop telling me that games are built to scale.
There are diminishing returns on the GPU side, but even then, there will be a lot of things that you will be able to do on a 9/10TFLOP Navi GPU that you cannot run on a sub 2TFLOP Polaris GPU.
There are things that you can do on a first generation Ryzen CPU that you cannot run on a Jaguar cluster, and it is not close. Machine learning, scalable engines will not bridge that gap.
Lastly, console architecture is supposed to run for 7 years. By the time we are starting next gen, PC's will have advanced, and it will not be long until you start seeing minimum requirements for games going up on PC.
This is the first generation that I hear that not having exclusive content is a good thing. And from the platform holder.....no, Sony/Microsoft are not just any other publisher.
You know I had completely forgotten that we still need an official name for that studio. Again I hope it's not just the Age IP. Microsoft has plenty of RTS IP to dig into or perhaps even new IP.
No you don't support pc's forever but you do have a set minimum/medium/high set of specs for devs to work with with the Xbox One, Xbox One X, and Scarlett. Yes eventually they will have Scarlett only games but no I do not think they will or should at launch. We're obviously not going to change each other's opinions on it so I'm done replying. This is the first time there is going to be full backwards compatibility from the start with Xbox and you can't look at it the same way that you used to as far as "generations" go.
If we're going strictly by the business viability as many of you are:
Did any of you see the Destiny 2 active users numbers? Anyone notice the giant gap between Xbox and PC? Having games scale so that they reach a large number of PC gaming machines is more critical to expanding Game Pass than pushing people from S to Scarlett. Especially if Scarlett is sold at a loss or with minimal margin...which most consoles are at launch. It's important to expand the reach of every new IP and Game Pass...not artificially try to reduce it in order to force people to get the better performing box.
I also believe there's a great chance that Cyberpunk's Scarlett and PS5 version will be more technically impressive than almost anything else out at next gens launch. I mention this because Cyberpunk obviously will have version on current gen hardware.
Did any of you see the Destiny 2 active users numbers? Anyone notice the giant gap between Xbox and PC? Having games scale so that they reach a large number of PC gaming machines is more critical to expanding Game Pass than pushing people from S to Scarlett. Especially if Scarlett is sold at a loss or with minimal margin...which most consoles are at launch. It's important to expand the reach of every new IP and Game Pass...not artificially try to reduce it in order to force people to get the better performing box.
I also believe there's a great chance that Cyberpunk's Scarlett and PS5 version will be more technically impressive than almost anything else out at next gens launch. I mention this because Cyberpunk obviously will have version on current gen hardware.
I'm curious to see those numbers. Can you link to them?
Just the opposite, I'm thinking Xcloud is how they can cater to Xbox One owners for Scarlett exclusives.
This will seem like a dumb question, but do we know for sure the XCloud is going to implement Scarlett server blades at or around launch? If not a definite, is there any reason to believe they'll do that rather than sticking with the current One S blades?
That's a lazy as hell graphic lol. And we know Scarlett will have 3D Audio, MS did a presentation on the 3D audio stuff as part of DirectX etc back at GDC this year. X already supports Atmos too.
So you are releasing a new console and designing games around tablet CPU that was outdated when current gen consoles launched?
Give me some of that stuff that you are having.
I am fine with Japanese or mainland EU.
If i am honest and this is just based on feeling. I hope we get two extra studio's added and i think its fine for a while. Like one smaller one like Compulsion etc. And just one bigger one. Like Obsidian.
I didn't say there would never be next gen exclusives. I said there wouldn't be any reason for them to exist at launch. And even in 2-3 years I expect the vast majority of games to be scalable. It takes awhile to build new game engines around new hardware and then implement that stuff in a way that makes sense within a game.
Gamers also are underestimating how much of the new headroom is going to get eaten up by the low hanging, scalable fruit like ray tracing, double frame rates, increased particle and cloth effects, increased detail, etc is going to use.
Physics scale. We've seen that with Nvidas PhysX. Ray tracing is a resource hog.
1st gen/cross gen games will sell new consoles due to double frame rate, Ray Tracing and low load times alone.
I absolutely detest it when IGN does this baity console wars shit on Twitter, pisses me off to no end, like just grow the fuck up already.
Edit: the Mixer reply is gold.
This is just going in circles at this point. Halo is going to be cross gen. A ninja theory game years in the making isn't suddenly going to skip the Xbox one just to gain mindshare. Studios like undead labs rare etc are likely making next gen exclusive games
The early adopters are going to buy the console regardless of exclusives, just like they did this gen and also the mid gen refreshes
The early adopters are going to buy the console regardless of exclusives, just like they did this gen and also the mid gen refreshes
There is a couple reasons I believe all games for scarlet will run on X1 hardware for at least the first two years.
With scaling been focused on for years now, it's easier and more supported than in the past. Microsoft especially is at the forefront of this since they've been supporting PC day one for years now. They are going to be supporting older hardware with the PC release anyways
another thing you need to think about is the hardware xcloud is going to be running. They aren't even using X hardware fire their servers. They are using X1S. Does xcloud even need to output at 4K? The bandwidth would be unbelievably high for that. I really don't see xcloud running scarlet hardware fire at least a couple years
With scaling been focused on for years now, it's easier and more supported than in the past. Microsoft especially is at the forefront of this since they've been supporting PC day one for years now. They are going to be supporting older hardware with the PC release anyways
another thing you need to think about is the hardware xcloud is going to be running. They aren't even using X hardware fire their servers. They are using X1S. Does xcloud even need to output at 4K? The bandwidth would be unbelievably high for that. I really don't see xcloud running scarlet hardware fire at least a couple years
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