• To celebrate the release of Halo: The Master Chief Collection on Steam, Xbox Games Studios has provided 5 Steam copies of the game and 5 Xbox One copies of the game! We will be giving these away in the Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Some Steam copies will also be given away to the PC Gaming Era community.
  • An old favorite feature returns: Q&ERA is back! This time we'll be collecting questions for Remedy Entertainment, makers of Max Payne, Alan Wake, Quantum Break, and Control. Members can submit questions for the next 3 days, 33 minutes, 10 seconds. Submissions will close on Dec 12, 2019 at 12:00 AM.

Xbox One was the UK No.1 games console over Black Friday

Layla

Member
Oct 25, 2017
307
yep that SAD+Gamepass combo was too good a deal to pass up, worked out to something stupid like £6 a month for 2+ years of Gamepass including the console(!)
 

*Guaraná

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,067
I have a feeling that Microsoft will be very aggressive with the Next-Box price and bundles.

People tend to prefer PS consoles, but depending on how low MS charges for its hardware, that can change very easily.
 

steviejd1

Member
Nov 8, 2017
7,442
we have a mountain of evidence and facts to show that taking in users at a loss to get users into your ecosystem can be quite effective. It’s worked for Amazon and Google that practically give out their mini smart speakers for free. It’s worked for Uber that takes on billions in losses to enter new markets. Apple is using that successfully to build up users for Apple TV + after this worked well for Apple Music.
We don't have any evidence that it would work for the gaming industry in the same way. It could but it also may not. It's difficult to gauge what the attach rate of these services will be when we are talking about casual/budget buyers.

Of course it may work out exactly as you say, only time will tell obviously but at the moment they are making a loss by selling that low (I work for a big computer parts company so I have an idea on how much parts will cost Microsoft).
 

Welfare

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,999
IIRC, that's the first time the XB1 sold the most on Black Friday week since 2014.

PS4 looks low, and Switch doing great as well.
 

Prine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,720
i am really intrigued to see how much the gamepass deals and 3 year conversions make to buying decisions next year...Will some people go with their current subs and just get a new box to access their sub with the next hardware?

Or will people go for cheapest box? or most powerful box?

I feel like PS has a much larger market share, and with back compat, people will be tempted to stick with their ecosystem...but then maybe the average Xbox customer is "stickier" because they've bought in to Gamepass etc.

Do people think that this is the hardest generation so far, to switch platforms? because of backwards compatability?
I think MS are banking on it. Im not sure eco systems matter too much if your gaming is based on 3rd party multi's due to cross-save/cross-play. If people value thier libraries then no one's limiting them to a single console, there's enough reason to own both now, GP + multi with Xbox, everything else on PS.
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,397
We don't have any evidence that it would work for the gaming industry in the same way. It could but it also may not. It's difficult to gauge what the attach rate of these services will be when we are talking about casual/budget buyers.

Of course it may work out exactly as you say, only time will tell obviously but at the moment they are making a loss by selling that low (I work for a big computer parts company so I have an idea on how much parts will cost Microsoft).
I would say that the strategy of doing these deals and the general might be indicative that someone who approved this strategy did the math and that is why they are doing it.
 

HavakPkmn

Member
Feb 13, 2019
73
Manchester
It makes sense to me and it's what I thought a lot of people would do even if the price was higher. We're coming to the end of the generation and I imagine a lot of people who have owned a PS4 or Switch (or both) the whole time are realising now is the time. You can basically purchase a cheap as chips Xbox One SAD (or a second-hand Xbox) and get GamePass for a year. You can play almost everything you've missed out on from Microsoft for a relatively small amount in the grand scheme of things and then buy PS5 whilst cancelling GamePass & trading in your Xbox. Most people are probably only picking up 2-3 major games on their PS4 next year anyway.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,064
We don't have any evidence that it would work for the gaming industry in the same way. It could but it also may not. It's difficult to gauge what the attach rate of these services will be when we are talking about casual/budget buyers.

Of course it may work out exactly as you say, only time will tell obviously but at the moment they are making a loss by selling that low (I work for a big computer parts company so I have an idea on how much parts will cost Microsoft).
yes we do...consoles. They were sold at a loss for generations...
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,397
So Sea of Thieves did around 100k when it was bundled with every Xbox console? Or even higher when people claim it was packed in with other games?
 

CalamityPixel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,030
But for a game dev, isn't it more important that the user base grew instead of how much money the console manufacturor made? Because for you, who wants to sell games, the more consoles out there, the better. Or did I miss something?
Nothing like that, just find it interesting how much revenue can be generated in the UK. The more the better, I like to see MS invest in the UK and the better they do the better it is for the UK games industry.
 

Manfred

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,401
Geneva, Switzerland
How much? A console being sold for 99 with multiple games taking a big loss is just common sense but if you have something that says differently then that’s great.
Take the problem from another side : the removing of the optical drive isn't made to gain margin for the manufacturer but to avoid physical installation of games for the end-user, and so the online store the only possibility to play games on that device.
 

Saint-14

Member
Nov 2, 2017
13,413
Take the problem from another side : the removing of the optical drive isn't made to gain margin for the manufacturer
Absolutely.

but to avoid physical installation of games for the end-user, and so the online store the only possibility to play games on that device.
This however doesn’t make sense, downloading a game is the equivalent of installing a physical version, I’d even argue it being much worse without a fast internet and game sizes going up.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
2,517
Nothing like that, just find it interesting how much revenue can be generated in the UK. The more the better, I like to see MS invest in the UK and the better they do the better it is for the UK games industry.
Microsoft’s key metrics are MAUs and Gamepass subscribers.

console sales revenues aren’t a part of that. Unit sales and MAUs should really be of far greater interest to you, since that’ll be what drives further investment.
 

EvilBoris

HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
6,979
Take the problem from another side : the removing of the optical drive isn't made to gain margin for the manufacturer but to avoid physical installation of games for the end-user, and so the online store the only possibility to play games on that device.
or taking a less cynical approach, this package is designed for children’s, where they know they know games are typically free to play.

Also the existence of gamepass for this same customer group renders the discs drive an unnecessary expense , the main Barrier to purchasing games and subscriptions is having a machine to play on.
 

Griz

Member
Oct 31, 2017
90
Lancaster PA
I really think MS at this point just wants people with something connected to the xbox service so they people can check out game pass. At this point late in cycle I'm not quite sure if they are even looking at revenue from actual hardware sales.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,263
We don't have any evidence that it would work for the gaming industry in the same way. It could but it also may not. It's difficult to gauge what the attach rate of these services will be when we are talking about casual/budget buyers.

Of course it may work out exactly as you say, only time will tell obviously but at the moment they are making a loss by selling that low (I work for a big computer parts company so I have an idea on how much parts will cost Microsoft).
Consoles have been sold at a loss to get people in the ecosystem in just about every gen since the ps1. It might have occurred before that but I'm unsure.
 

Cactuar

Member
Nov 30, 2018
2,635
An incredibly well earned win. MS will be in a far stronger position next generation.
I don't know that I agree with your second point looking at what appears to be 40k difference with a $99 console in the UK market, seems to be a lot to project based on that unless you're also projecting Scarlet being significantly cheaper than PS5, but I definitely agree with your first. Microsoft came out with the SAD to do just this, drop the price to $99 (which should be the regular price anyway), and compete during the holidays.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,419
Consoles have been sold at a loss to get people in the ecosystem in just about every gen since the ps1. It might have occurred before that but I'm unsure.
Yep can't be certain about the early days with nintendo ,sega and others but MS and Sony for certain .
Still if i remember right Nintendo don't normally do it .
Still the business model is different from a streaming service in terms of making money so you really can't compare them .
 

EvilBoris

HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
6,979
I'd need to recheck that, but I'm pretty sure that's an urban myth.

Consoles may have been sold at cost price occasionally, but selling at a loss rarely happens.
I think times have changed recently. But I’m sure part of Nintendo’s business model was that the machines Did more than break even, so even the GameCube was a successfull product for Nintendo.
It could be part of the same urban myth, but having seen firsthand the pathetic retailer margins for hardware, it kind of stacks up there are not big bucks in the machines.

I think Sony/Microsoft did scale back a little on how cutting edge the machines were to keep this loss to a minimum. Research firms still estimate that he console PS4 was sold at a loss at launch

 

steviejd1

Member
Nov 8, 2017
7,442
Consoles have been sold at a loss to get people in the ecosystem in just about every gen since the ps1. It might have occurred before that but I'm unsure.
The loss is usually quite small in comparison and if you actually look at the profits of the companies at the time when they sell at the highest loss (console launch) they are usually in the red or close to it.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,969
It could be part of the same urban myth, but having seen firsthand the pathetic retailer margins for hardware, it kind of stacks up there are not big bucks in the machines.
The hardware (consoles) definitely isn't where they're making big money. But to my knowledge, the "at a loss" is overblown. It's usually during specific phases (like launch period for example) and it's not like they're selling the console half-price. They're only losing a meager percentage when it happens (bar maybe some very contextual sales like insane BF deals).
 

robjoh

Member
Oct 31, 2017
485
You aren’t gonna save over $100 by removing the disc, the current price have very little to do with that, they want to lock people in their ecosystem and doing it with pushing digital on them is a good way of that, they are absolutely taking a big loss on this offer.
That was not what I meant, I stated that you would not be able to reach 99€ with a system without throwing something out. I am not sure how close they are to 99€, but with a Blu-ray player they would be further off.

And of course I understand that Microsoft want to get you into their ecosystem.
 

Welfare

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,999
Black Friday Week History

XB1
2014: 108,678
2015: 133,745
2016: 92,578
2017: ???
2018: >100,000
2019: >100,000

PS4
2014: 108,087
2015: 139,011
2016: 142,578
2017: >143,000 (Best Black Friday Week sans 2013/launch)
2018: >100,000
2019: 60,000

NSW
2017: ???
2018: >100,000
2019: >100,000

For 2018, we know PS4+XB1+NSW was over 300K, with PS4 "...the best-selling machine, narrowly ahead of Xbox One, which was narrowly ahead of Nintendo Switch".
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,514
How the hell did Switch manage to land in the same ballpark as Xbox with 2x/3x price? Its incredible.
Software rules, no one understands this better than Nintendo, they deliver the goods more consistently than anyone else. The Switch has broken out from the diehard Nintendo fan ghetto to the must own console for everyone. Plus, it’s available as a dedicated handheld, a market Nintendo has all to themselves.
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,016
As we approach Christmas and the lite having just launched- kids presents. It’s the same every year for Nintendo handhelds.
Software rules, no one understands this better than Nintendo, they deliver the goods more consistently than anyone else. The Switch has broken out from the diehard Nintendo fan ghetto to the must own console for everyone. Plus, it’s available as a dedicated handheld, a market Nintendo has all to themselves.
Oh yeah I forgot about the Lite aka the Nintendo handheld, which is weird considering I bought one last month. Should've waited for BF deals.
 

upinsmoke

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,546
Software rules, no one understands this better than Nintendo, they deliver the goods more consistently than anyone else. The Switch has broken out from the diehard Nintendo fan ghetto to the must own console for everyone. Plus, it’s available as a dedicated handheld, a market Nintendo has all to themselves.
What are you on about?

The switch is literally not even 3 years old. Let's see how its selling on black Friday 4 years from now. It's still relatively new.
 

DrDeckard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,597
Glad to see people are not afraid on a full digital console. It took six year but MS did it.
The secret was to let customers make the choice themselves. MSs mistake is they tried to "force" it onto the customer and didn't even have the answers worked out to put people at ease when the difficult questions started to fire off.

They were basically a generation too early, but now with the help of all platforms pushing more and more digital they are in a position to capitalize on that initial plan.
 
Last edited:

TimeFire

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
5,846
Brazil
You love to see all three competitors doing well! The Xbox One has really turned itself around in this late gen. It's a quite good console nowadays.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,746
Netherlands
Yeah the SAD deal was amazing. Still surprised at them selling the most though. I mean anecdotally I did know a few people who bought one, and less so for Switch or PS4, but a $99 gamecube also didn't set the charts on fire. I figured at some point a console is just done and nothing can really resuscitate it.
 

Gnorman

Member
Jan 14, 2018
1,786
I would neve have thought xbox could outsell switch regardless of price, amazing result for MS.

I don't necessarily agree that it gives them any momentum going into next gen though.