Xbox One X has vapor chamber cooling. Silly youtube channel doesn't understand.

[RexNovis]

As many will likely remember much ado was made during the announcement of the XB1X about the console's Vapor Chamber cooling system as seen here



While the cooling system in XB1X clearly runs and works smoothly it appears after an actual tear down of the cooling system that the "vapor chamber" actually contains no vapor and is in fact just a vacuum chamber. You can see the video of the tear down here



Vacuum cooled chambers on their own would be a step up from most console HW cooling solutions so I'm rather baffled as to why MS would go to lengths to tout vapor cooling in their HW. It's really odd. Why risk engaging in false advertising over such a claim?

Obviously more testing is needed to confirm this and I hope by making this thread perhaps we can get some attention and garner some further testing to get to the bottom of this.

 

[rebelcrusader]

Its a vapor chamber...and you didn't post the right video

 

[Vestal]

Fix your links OP =)

 

[Deleted member 5491]

But my Vapor Chamber...

 

[NSA]

 

[RexNovis]

Fix your links OP =)

Click to shrink...

Sorry I did. Refresh and they should be good now

Its a vapor chamber...and you didn't post the right video

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Yea I realized after I posted and corrected the link. See the second video for what I'm talking about

 

[RedHeat]

I'm not very tech-savy on this area, but does it make a difference either way?

 

[ConHaki66]

Ok? my console works and is quiet am good

 

[Gamer17]

Interesting.but that reveal was just a PR talk I think .like the sentence " clearest pixel" or something like that .they just wanted to make sure people know x exist before pro hits the market .so they used many pr positive words even if it didn't make sense . And even included VR which they dropped later on .

Things like these are kinda common I think .

 

[plagiarize]

I'm going off A-level physics here, but how the heck would a 'vacuum chamber' lacking vapor help with cooling? Without the state change absorbing energy and transferring it away from the chip (as in a vapor chamber) wouldn't a vacuum just serve as insulation?

 

[RexNovis]

Interesting.but that reveal was just a PR talk I think .like the sentence " clearest pixel" or something like that .they just wanted to make sure people know x exist before pro hits the market .so they used many pr positive words even if it didn't make sense . And even included VR which they dropped later on .

Things like these are kinda common I think .

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Yea all true and I agree they're more common than they should be but I still think it's important to point them out when they happen.

 

[hanshen]

I'm going off A-level physics here, but how the heck would a 'vacuum chamber' lacking vapor help with cooling? Without the state change absorbing energy and transferring it away from the chip (as in a vapor chamber) wouldn't a vacuum just serve as insulation?

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There is liquid in there. But the guy cut the cooling pipe open and probably caused the liquid to vaporize....so it appears to be empty.

 

[RexNovis]

I'm going off A-level physics here, but how the heck would a 'vacuum chamber' lacking vapor help with cooling? Without the state change absorbing energy and transferring it away from the chip (as in a vapor chamber) wouldn't a vacuum just serve as insulation?

Click to shrink...

I did some research on it as I'd never hear of it before either but apparently vacuum chambers are usually not complete vacuums and actually contain some small amount of gas to aid in heat transference

 

[FuzzyAssassin]

There is liquid in there. But the guy cut the cooling pipe open and probably caused the liquid to vaporize....so it appears to be empty.

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/thread

The guy in the video says he hears "the vacuum opening", so the chamber is pressurized. The chamber's most likely filled with a substance that's gaseous at room temperatures and pressures, but liquid while in the chamber. If so, once the pressure is released and normalized with the room, all the liquid would evaporate.

 

[senj]

I'm going off A-level physics here, but how the heck would a 'vacuum chamber' lacking vapor help with cooling? Without the state change absorbing energy and transferring it away from the chip (as in a vapor chamber) wouldn't a vacuum just serve as insulation?

Click to shrink...

Yeah, a vacuum would act as an insulating layer, since there's nothing to carry the heat away from the "near" wall of the chamber.

This guy's mistake is in assuming that any liquid in a vacuum remains liquid at normal atmospheric pressure.

 

[Deleted member 13101]

That's like taking a picture with a film camera, then opening the back to take a peek at the picture. Once you expose the film to more sunlight like that, the picture is toast. Sounds like that's what happened here, once you bust open the thing you lose what was inside.

 

[RexNovis]

There is liquid in there. But the guy cut the cooling pipe open and probably caused the liquid to vaporize....so it appears to be empty.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, a vacuum would act as an insulating layer, since there's nothing to carry the heat away from the "near" wall of the chamber.

This guy's mistake is in assuming that any liquid in a vacuum remains liquid at normal atmospheric pressure.

Click to shrink...

So it's a pressure sensitive reaction and not a temperature specific one? The assumption is that whatever vapor is used would be liquid at standard temperatures as that's what would be necessary in order to operate as a coolant but if it's a pressure variable reaction that's obviously different

 

[Deleted member 18951]

Flak!

 

[TheBeardedOne]

I'd rather there not be liquid inside a console

 

[nib95]

I'm guessing they realised they didn't need it at some point during late production and for cost cutting or whatever else they took it out.

 

[Deleted member 35204]

haven't watched the video but a vapor chambers usually has an amount so minuscule of water that evaporates as soon as the chamber is opened

 

[anexanhume]

So it's a pressure sensitive reaction and not a temperature specific one? The assumption is that whatever vapor is used would be liquid at standard temperatures as that's what would be necessary in order to operate as a coolant but if it's a pressure variable reaction that's obviously different

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Pressure affects boiling point. In higher altititudes, water boils at a much lower temperature, for example.

Also, the wicking structure is designed to guide where the liquid is collected. Many liquids are cohesive rather than adhesive.

 

[Laserdisk]

There is liquid in there. But the guy cut the cooling pipe open and probably caused the liquid to vaporize....so it appears to be empty.

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Yeap other tear tear downs of these and phones with similar systems say the same thing

 

[-shadow-]

haven't watched the video but a vapor chambers usually has an amount so minuscule of water that evaporates as soon as the chamber is opened

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This is pretty much what happens here. Seemingly no liquid since it's probably evaporated.

 

[FuzzyAssassin]

So it's a pressure sensitive reaction and not a temperature specific one? The assumption is that whatever vapor is used would be liquid at standard temperatures as that's what would be necessary in order to operate as a coolant but if it's a pressure variable reaction that's obviously different

Click to shrink...

The chamber is likely pressurized so the substance is on the border between liquid and gaseous states. When the substance heats a little bit, it evaporates and starts to cycle.

We didn't see anything drip out because reducing the pressure for a given temperature can cause a liquid to evaporate. It's why water comes to a boil at lower temperatures at higher altitudes. You can see the state changes for CO2 below.

 

[elzeus]

Did they cut it all the way through? Higher end cellphones have copper wicks inside their cooling solutions that don't have liquid at normal temperatures it's only when it's heated that the vapor moves then condenses on the cooler side if I'm remembering right and there isn't much water involved. Maybe the x vapor chamber is similar. A better comparison would be comparing the X vapor chamber to one on an Nvidia graphics card rather than expecting water to come gushing out like in a water cooled pc.

 

[RexNovis]

Pressure affects boiling point. In higher altititudes, water boils at a much lower temperature, for example.

Also, the wicking structure is designed to guide where the liquid is collected. Many liquids are cohesive rather than adhesive.

Click to shrink...

So the wicking structure could've retained whatever liquid was actually in the cooling chamber after the seal was broken?

 

[zedox]

Flak!

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No. We need moar.

 

[senj]

So it's a pressure sensitive reaction and not a temperature specific one? The assumption is that whatever vapor is used would be liquid at standard temperatures as that's what would be necessary in order to operate as a coolant but if it's a pressure variable reaction that's onviously different

Click to shrink...

I haven't had enough coffee yet, but the key point here is that vacuums lower boiling points and pressure raises them -- all phase transitions are dependent on both pressure & temperature. Water doesn't even boil at the same temperature, depending on your elevation above sea-level.

Quite possibly it's never liquid at room temperature -- gas density is still lower at a higher temperature, so you'd still get the movement of gas carrying temperature between the two plates. But the key point is that there's obviously something in there, otherwise the vacuum would act as an insulator, like a soup thermos.

 

[Smurf]

time to give em some flak

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

I'm going off A-level physics here, but how the heck would a 'vacuum chamber' lacking vapor help with cooling? Without the state change absorbing energy and transferring it away from the chip (as in a vapor chamber) wouldn't a vacuum just serve as insulation?

Click to shrink...

There is liquid in there. But the guy cut the cooling pipe open and probably caused the liquid to vaporize....so it appears to be empty.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, a vacuum would act as an insulating layer, since there's nothing to carry the heat away from the "near" wall of the chamber.

This guy's mistake is in assuming that any liquid in a vacuum remains liquid at normal atmospheric pressure.

Click to shrink...

So...guess we can close this case

 

[Detective]

Click to shrink...

Swing and a miss.

 

[Andri]

Its liquid cooled.
Just not the standard liquid cooling people might know from enthusiast pc gaming.

The cooler is filled with a liquid(most likely deionised water) that gets vaporised(aka turned into steam) with the vapor helping transfer and distribute the heat better by a process called capillary action.

The video you included in the OP is your garden variety of bullshit YT video that peddles misinfomation for klicks.
He just cuts up a tiny part of the cooler and then expects actual liquid to flow out of it.

That is a badly done teardown and not how vapor chambers operate.

The "liquid" in the cooler is in vapor, so it wouldnt flow out of a tiny hole in the cooler, and second there is usually so little "liquid" in such coolers that it completely evaporates if you actually cut the cooler open all the way.

Just check out some teardowns of liquid cooled Smartphones, for example jerryrigeverything shows quite nicely how the liquid cooled smartphones usually have less than a drop of water in it and how said liquid very quickly evaporates once you cut up the cooler.

I agree that MS is doing the usualy marketing speak by calling it liquid cooling(which Vapor chamber cooling technically is, but practically isnt), but the xb1x has a perfectly normal vapor chamber by any standard.

 

[hanshen]

So...guess we can close this case

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The importance of high school physics, the thread.
Pay attention in school kids!

 

[Gankzymcfly]

Vapor chamber doesn't = glass of water chamber. Its vabor... and said vabor likely evaporated when he broke the vacuum. Why would MS go so far as to create a vacuum within their heat sinks in order to mislead consumers?

 

[The Iron Banana]

But hey with Youtube everyone gets a voice therefore everyone is validated in their opinion regardless of whether or not they actually know what they're talking about.

I'm guessing they realised they didn't need it at some point during late production and for cost cutting or whatever else they took it out.

Click to shrink...

It's there, a quick google search about the subject could give you all the answers you seek.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/xbox-one-x-vapor-cooling-system,34787.html

https://www.aavidgenie.com/xbox-one-x-thermal-solution/

 

[Euler007]

Let me take a grinder to my fridge's coil and see what's in there.

 

[plagiarize]

There is liquid in there. But the guy cut the cooling pipe open and probably caused the liquid to vaporize....so it appears to be empty.

Click to shrink...

Pretty much what I figured.

 

[bsigg]

Obviously more testing is needed to confirm this and I hope by making this thread perhaps we can get some attention and garner some further testing to get to the bottom of this.

Click to shrink...

This seemed like it happened pretty quick as evidenced by the title change.

 

[Xumbrega]

We need some vapor chamber cooling to this thread backfire

 

[christocolus]

So...guess we can close this case

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Lol.. It was never even an issue in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 2652]

yo u gotta sub ohm the rig for them plush cloud clouds

 

[Starlatine]

First he cancel scalebound and now he lies to me

John Microsoft needs to be arrested.

 

[nekkid]

Am I meant to be outraged at something?

 

[DJ Lushious]

We need some vapor chamber cooling to this thread backfire

Click to shrink...

I normally hate comments about thread backfires, because its never a backfire when someone learns something new (and this thread is very informative), but this post made me laught out loud!

 

[Andri]

I like that thread title.

Imagine a world where everyone had a decent understanding of physics.

Or even better, a world where YT "content" creators take the time to research the topics of their videos, or dont decide to mislead viewers to generate clicks.

 

[nekkid]

First he cancel scalebound and now he lies to me

John Microsoft needs to be arrested.

Click to shrink...

Fuck you, Mr. Redmond!

 

[number8888]

A streamer that doesn't know anything how a vapor chamber works decides to show how one works. And just like OP, many people are falling for it.

MS hater will eat this up unfortunately.

 

[Ferrs]

And this is why if you do a hardware teardown you should know your shit. But that's asking too much for your average youtuber.

 

[RexNovis]

The chamber is likely pressurized so the substance is on the border between liquid and gaseous states. When the substance heats a little bit, it evaporates and starts to cycle.

We didn't see anything drip out because reducing the pressure for a given temperature can cause a liquid to evaporate. It's why water comes to a boil at lower temperatures at higher altitudes. You can see the state changes for CO2 below.

Click to shrink...

I haven't had enough coffee yet, but the key point here is that vacuums lower boiling points and pressure raises them -- all phase transitions are dependent on both pressure & temperature. Water doesn't even boil at the same temperature, depending on your elevation above sea-level.

Quite possibly it's never liquid at room temperature -- gas density is still lower at a higher temperature, so you'd still get the movement of gas carrying temperature between the two plates. But the key point is that there's obviously something in there, otherwise the vacuum would act as an insulator, like a soup thermos.

Click to shrink...

Its liquid cooled.
Just not the standard liquid cooling people might know from enthusiast pc gaming.

The cooler is filled with a liquid(most likely deionised water) that gets vaporised(aka turned into steam) with the vapor helping transfer and distribute the heat better by a process called capillary action.

The video you included in the OP is your garden variety of bullshit YT video that peddles misinfomation for klicks.
He just cuts up a tiny part of the cooler and then expects actual liquid to flow out of it.

That is a badly done teardown and not how vapor chambers operate.

The "liquid" in the cooler is in vapor, so it wouldnt flow out of a tiny hole in the cooler, and second there is usually so little "liquid" in such coolers that it completely evaporates if you actually cut the cooler open all the way.

Just check out some teardowns of liquid cooled Smartphones, for example jerryrigeverything shows quite nicely how the liquid cooled smartphones usually have less than a drop of water in it and how said liquid very quickly evaporates once you cut up the cooler.

I agree that MS is doing the usualy marketing speak by calling it liquid cooling(which Vapor chamber cooling technically is, but practically isnt), but the xb1x has a perfectly normal vapor chamber by any standard.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for these breakdowns guys. Looks like the absence of vapor or liquid in the video in the op isn't actual evidence as indicated. Always appreciate learning something new.

Since it's clear the test was flawed and the conclusions are actually incorrect I'll go ahead and request a close of the thread. Sorry for creating a thread based on such an incomplete understanding of the technology at hand