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Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,361
Forza Horizon 5 running on these specs is going to be mind-blowing.

I keep thinking about integrating the tech Asobo is using with Flight Simulator, to make a true-to-life Horizon 5 map of a city like New York. If they chose a place with photogrammetry data, you could easily create a fairly detailed mesh right off the bat - and then go in and manually clean things up from there.

Probably still too much work to be practical, I suppose.
 

MrDeveus

Member
Apr 26, 2019
833
How about this scenario:

The PS5 was supposed to be 8.4 TF with 36 CUs in 2019 (github). We were all supposed to be playing PS5 games now. TLOU 2 cross gen was probably going to be a launch window game. Same with Cyberpunk 2077 I imagine. This was supposed to be a repeat of PS2 2000 and Xbox 2001.

At AMD's, raytracing and/or Backcompat had unexpected setbacks and Sony delayed launch to 2020. In that year, they did what they could, spent more money on cooling (bloomberg) to boost the clock to 2.0 Ghz (github) , which gives them 9.2 TF. Closing the gap with Xbox by 1 TF. This explains the 12GB of memory (reddit) vs 16GB on the SeX deficit as well. 9 TF requires 25% less memory bandwidth than 12 TF. I expect this deficit to be gone today since RAM is easy to upgrade late, unlike APUs.

Everything in the old reddit leak checks out too well to be fake. Some of the predictions would've been ludicrous back then.

Another scenario would be that Sony managed to up their CU count by 50% to 54 CUs in record time. It's never been done but there is a first time for everything. If that were the case, they would be effectively tied with SeX. We're talking 3% slower.



Worst case scenario, At equal res, It's like 24 vs 30 FPS or 45 vs 60 FPS. The latter isn't too bad on HDMI 2.1 TVs, but the first is definitely bad. But that's worst case. Best case the resolution will be dynamic and the image will just look a tiny bit fuzzier on the PS5 without loss of framerate.



Someone unearthed this old post that turned out to be right about things (such as Xbox one S and X names, TF count, SSD, Sony plans, etc.) that were confirmed later. It has 0 claims that have been credibly contradicted by someone credible (such as Digital Foundry).


Bottom line, it looks like Sony's plans got wrecked when they couldn't release in 2019. Someone made a really bad technical prediction. They took a deliberate risk and it didn't payoff. Now they must mitigate as best they can until 2023 when they can release the PS5pro @ 18TF.

On its head, this is a story of triumph for Microsoft. Their hardware engineers knocked it out the park. I can't wait for the insider story on how the SeX sausage got made. (no pun intended!)




The vast majority of current games are still under 50GB, actually. There will be no next-gen increase in asset sizes since 4k assets have been a thing since PS4pro. In fact, we should see some small decrease thanks to SSD performance (no more data cloning hacks for slow HDDs) , deletable single player campaigns and some texture compression made possible by increased SSD and CPU speeds.

But worry not, for people like you and me, there will be premium consoles that comes with 2TB SSD at $599. Guaranteed! They do it every time.

this makes a lot of sense
 

Bunzy

Banned
Nov 1, 2018
2,205
this makes a lot of sense

lol no it doesn't, the rumor or Sony going in 2019 was from 2017, it wasn't like they just found out it wasn't possible in 2019 or even 2018. They would of had time to change and ample time to see the amd apu pipeline and make a decision based on how amd was progressing.
 

Neural

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,820
Italy
Good lord I hope Sony's BC solution is on par with Microsoft's. I need 4k/60 fps BB.
I don't think it will. MS'got almost one entire gen advantage on BC R&D (see the AI asset improvement for example, which I believe is what they're referring to in the podcast). PS5 BC looks more to be hardware based, like recreating a PS4 inside a PS5 but without the advantages of emulation. It will be fine, but not mind-blowing.
 

sacrament

Banned
Dec 16, 2019
2,119
I don't think it will. MS'got almost one entire gen advantage on BC R&D (see the AI asset improvement for example, which I believe is what they're referring to in the podcast). PS5 BC looks more to be hardware based, like recreating a PS4 inside a PS5 but without the advantages of emulation. It will be fine, but not mind-blowing.

Why's that fine? Shouldn't it be better than what happened this past gen?
 

PianoBlack

Member
May 24, 2018
6,645
United States
Pertaining to the Podcast:

Around 7:38 mark, Jason Ronalds states that 'All' games going forward from MS will use the smart delivery system. Does that mean there all games from from now until the end of next gen will run on the entire family of Xbox consoles including the One S and X?

They already suggested cross gen launches from Xbox first party will only extend until around holiday 2021. There's a quote from the head of Xbox Game Studios last November saying we would "see their games scale across all devices" for the "next year, two years." So the exact timing may be unknown but they clearly plan to leave XB1 behind after a reasonable period.

As others have said, smart delivery can presumably apply to Lockhart, future Series X2, PC, etc.
 

Zg9

Member
Jan 18, 2020
427
Wish list for the Next-gen. It's worth dreaming.
ERsa2fbXUAAjEmR
 

Neural

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,820
Italy
Why's that fine? Shouldn't it be better than what happened this past gen?
Well, talking about Sony that would definitely be better than what they did this gen.

If it allows you to play any PS4 game on PS5 with no issues and maybe even performance improvements, IMHO it will be ok as it's just doing what's basically expected by BC. Everything on top of it would obviously be very welcome, but a basic, good working BC will still be fine.
 

Pasedo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
52
I paid 3k AUD for my i9700k + rtx 2080 which is about 10-11 Tflops yeah? 12TF at $599 USD sounds like a pretty good deal or am I wrong?
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
If Corona doesn't cause too much of a hiccup I wonder if MS will really go for launching before Sony too. It sounds like there are a few of these at employees houses now, more or less complete specs.....Could be crazy if they launch the console in September or October.

Corona has probably ruined this dream....but you never know.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,583
I paid 3k AUD for my i9700k + rtx 2080 which is about 10-11 Tflops yeah? 12TF at $599 USD sounds like a pretty good deal or am I wrong?
AMD TF don't directly compare to Nvidia. I think people expecting the equivalent of a $1000 GPU in an entire system that costs $500-600 should probably temper their expectations. The XSX is gonna be a monster, and incredible value, but I really don't think it's going to be actually trading blows with a 2080 or 2080ti.
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,292
AMD TF don't directly compare to Nvidia. I think people expecting the equivalent of a $1000 GPU in an entire system that costs $500-600 should probably temper their expectations. The XSX is gonna be a monster, and incredible value, but I really don't think it's going to be actually trading blows with a 2080 or 2080ti.

Does that matter if no games specifically take advantage of 2080(ti) power?
 

laxu

Member
Nov 26, 2017
2,782
Does that matter if no games specifically take advantage of 2080(ti) power?

Red Dead Redemption 2 on PC would like a word. At 5120x1440 (which is less pixels than 4K btw) I can just barely hold 60 fps with the settings I use, which are still way above Xbox One X settings. Games with raytracing will chew up 2080 Ti horsepower easily too.
 

Vimto

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,714
I paid 3k AUD for my i9700k + rtx 2080 which is about 10-11 Tflops yeah? 12TF at $599 USD sounds like a pretty good deal or am I wrong?

In 2020, cards with RTX 2080 performance will be available at much cheaper price than 2018.

Its stupid to compare prices from back then, to hw that is still 9 months away.
Does that matter if no games specifically take advantage of 2080(ti) power?

Your post doesn't make sense.
 
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dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,885
AMD TF don't directly compare to Nvidia. I think people expecting the equivalent of a $1000 GPU in an entire system that costs $500-600 should probably temper their expectations. The XSX is gonna be a monster, and incredible value, but I really don't think it's going to be actually trading blows with a 2080 or 2080ti.
It will trade blows with 2080 for sure, 2080Ti not so much but it will be pretty close.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,583
It will trade blows with 2080 for sure, 2080Ti not so much but it will be pretty close.
I am extremely doubtful. Are you basing this just off of gpu tflops? Because that is the wrong way to look at this imo. The vega 64 is technically 12 tflops from AMD, but it's performance is similar to, and often worse than a 1080ti
 

Deleted member 62280

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 18, 2019
497
I am extremely doubtful. Are you basing this just off of gpu tflops? Because that is the wrong way to look at this imo. The vega 64 is technically 12 tflops from AMD, but it's performance is similar to, and often worse than a 1080ti

the below quote from the next gen thread shows how AMD and Nvidia trade blows when the cards are locked to the same TF performance if I'm understanding that correctly? Kreten feel free to add to that or correct the info if I missed something.

This is just simply ignoring facts and going on with your own opinion.
shader-coresaok94.jpg
This proves opposite of what you are saying, you are claiming that the card is 9TF (based on nvidias 1770MHz) and then look at how that card compares at 1900MHz to AMD competing card and claim how 9TF beats 9.7TF card. AMD card game mode MHz isabout 1800 so how is it that you claim in actual game performance it's 9.7TF?

Do the math yourself 2560 cores x 2 x MHz=TF
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,885
I am extremely doubtful. Are you basing this just off of gpu tflops? Because that is the wrong way to look at this imo. The vega 64 is technically 12 tflops from AMD, but it's performance is similar to, and often worse than a 1080ti
I'm basing this on what we know about RDNA1 Flops efficiency right now and how it compares to Turing's Flops efficiency.
There are many things to consider beyond this of course but realistically the only part which may actually end up considerably below 2080's capabilities is the ray tracing h/w performance (since we just don't know anything about it for now).
The rest will likely be close to 2080 or even faster (because RDNA2 will likely be better than RDNA1 and XSX will probably have more memory and bandwidth).
Then there are specific code optimizations which will allow the console to push above its weight and yeah, it will probably approach 2080Ti territory eventually.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,583
I'm basing this on what we know about RDNA1 Flops efficiency right now and how it compares to Turing's Flops efficiency.
There are many things to consider beyond this of course but realistically the only part which may actually end up considerably below 2080's capabilities is the ray tracing h/w performance (since we just don't know anything about it for now).
The rest will likely be close to 2080 or even faster (because RDNA2 will likely be better than RDNA1 and XSX will probably have more memory and bandwidth).
Then there are specific code optimizations which will allow the console to push above its weight and yeah, it will probably approach 2080Ti territory eventually.
This sounds like crazy talk to me but more power to ya
 

Alucardx23

Member
Nov 8, 2017
4,713
I am extremely doubtful. Are you basing this just off of gpu tflops? Because that is the wrong way to look at this imo. The vega 64 is technically 12 tflops from AMD, but it's performance is similar to, and often worse than a 1080ti

It is correct to say AMD was a lot less efficient than Nvidia with the GCN architecture. TF is just a theoretical maximum and how efficient you are in trying to reach that maximum is what you really see when you compare GPUs. AMD improved a lot with the RDNA architecture and as you can see with the RX 5700 vs the RTX 2070, they show similar performance on average, while also being close at Teraflops. RDNA 2 will raise the efficiency levels even higher. It is reasonable to expect RTX 2070 Super and RTX 2080 levels of performance for the XSX. When you combine that with the optimizations developers can do on consoles, it should be possible to surpass even that. what might bring those numbers down is how good will the XSX be with ray tracing and running machine learning code.
 
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Thardin

Member
Jan 7, 2018
926
Wish list for the Next-gen. It's worth dreaming.
ERsa2fbXUAAjEmR

I feel like most of the games on there are already known to be in development/released (FF7R, DA4, Cyberpunk, Halo Infinite, Hellblade 2 Nioh 2, Watch Dogs, R6, Elder Scrolls 6, Jeedi Fallen Order, etc) or have absolutely no chance in hell of happening (L4D3, Deadspace 4, Scalebound, KOTOR 3, Halo Wars 3, Fable 4, Jade Empire 2, Tenchu 2, etc).

So it's like "I want things that are for sure happening and a pipe dream."
 

Whatislove

Member
Jan 2, 2019
905
I feel like most of the games on there are already known to be in development/released (FF7R, DA4, Cyberpunk, Halo Infinite, Hellblade 2 Nioh 2, Watch Dogs, R6, Elder Scrolls 6, Jeedi Fallen Order, etc) or have absolutely no chance in hell of happening (L4D3, Deadspace 4, Scalebound, KOTOR 3, Halo Wars 3, Fable 4, Jade Empire 2, Tenchu 2, etc).

So it's like "I want things that are for sure happening and a pipe dream."
I don't know where you've been but Fable 4 is probably the worst kept secret in gaming. It's all but guaranteed.
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,292
In 2020, cards with RTX 2080 performance will be available at much cheaper price than 2018.

Its stupid to compare prices from back then, to hw that is still 9 months away.


Your post doesn't make sense.

Yes it does.
Red Dead Redemption 2 on PC would like a word. At 5120x1440 (which is less pixels than 4K btw) I can just barely hold 60 fps with the settings I use, which are still way above Xbox One X settings. Games with raytracing will chew up 2080 Ti horsepower easily too.

Red dead two would look better if the x1/ps4 both had 2080ti the entire time...no?

And many of those games are made with weaker consoles and various weaker cards in mind?
What? Games do take advantage of the 2080. There are games even a 2080 struggles to run at 4k60 maxed out, and that's not even taking raytracing into account.

Yea...but I'm talking about the games being built on that card alone..like in a console. It's why i used specifically.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
Pertaining to the Podcast:

Around 7:38 mark, Jason Ronalds states that 'All' games going forward from MS will use the smart delivery system. Does that mean there all games from from now until the end of next gen will run on the entire family of Xbox consoles including the One S and X?

No. It means games you buy today will port forward with all the enhancements that come with better hardware. People really taking this out of context. It's about a system being able to recognize which texture pack and settings to give you. It's not a guarantee that games will always work on the S.
 
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