Xbox's Shannon Loftis to IGN reviewer: "dont discourage people from playing our game"

Discussion in 'Video Games' started by bananafactory, Nov 10, 2017.

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  1. Rembrandt

    Rembrandt Member

  2. Matt

    Matt Moderator

    I do not see the connection you are making there. I don't think this incident is evidence that she "doesn't have the skill for her job." I do think her tweet was a mistake, and one of the reasons is that a person in her position commenting towards a reviewer in such a way can lead to harassment.
     
  3. Olinad

    Olinad Member

    In general? Yes, they can. Publicly pointing the finger at one specific reviewer with a tweet, telling them they shouldn't discourage people from buying a game? Not really.

    It's primarily a matter of being professional, let's put it that way.
     
  4. Tallshortman

    Tallshortman Member

    What a dumb thing to say, she should apologize regardless of her reasoning. No way should people from MS or any other company even give the slight impression that they want to intrude on the review process.
     
  5. Kasey

    Kasey Member

    So she wouldn't have given a shit if there were higher budget games releasing around this time? I'm not defending her comments here but her defensiveness is clearly coming from the poor reviews the game her studio produced is receiving, not the scope of the project or Xbox's 2017 lineup in general.
     
  6. Jom

    Jom Member

    I happen to think Shannon Loftis is more than competent. You don't make it that high within Microsoft without being extremely good at your job.

    Lucky's Tale currently stands at a 64 on metacritic. Microsoft, like any other company has sheets on reviewers and must know that Ryan is pro-Xbox guy as he hosts IGN's Xbox podcast. This isn't a game generally recognized as quality being bashed by an attention seeking Sony fanboy.

    Being as experienced as she is, she decides to go to bat for this game in what I'm sure she must know is an unprofessional manner.

    Can you really say this has absolutely nothing to do with desperation and being overprotective of one of the few exclusive crown jewels this year?
     
  7. bcatwilly

    bcatwilly Member

    It probably wasn't wise for Shannon to make the one comment, but the IGN review was definitely unfairly low IMO having played the game. I hate numerical review scores in general, but if forced I would probably say it is a 7. It did have a quirky camera view at times as noted, but it is a fun casual platformer with some great art that looks cool in Native 4K on the Xbox One X too. I also played and finished Mario Odyssey, and that is frankly the most overhyped game of the year to me. I would probably give it an 8 (my 3 young Mario fan boys would be harsher): was way too easy and short for the main story, 900 moons to grind for after short story felt like boring overload, possession mechanics were only really fun and useful in a handful of cases (becoming a manhole cover????), humans in New Donk City were annoying, and graphics were inconsistent between worlds with some textures looking really bad on a nicer 4K TV.
     
  8. TheWickedSoul

    TheWickedSoul Member

    It's not professional to criticize? People acting like she's the one harassing Ryan.
     
  9. sangreal

    sangreal Member

    She didn't "go after" him for stating his opinion. She didn't even criticize his review. She criticized him for taking the extra step of telling this guy that everyone else thinks the games sucks.

    If anything, it is Ryan who is unable to accept criticism, as shown by his need to convince this guy that the game is bad just because he didn't like the review. Mind you, this guy wasn't even talking to Ryan
     
  10. Jaxar

    Jaxar Member

    Not a good look and just makes her look unprofessional.

    I wonder if Shannon is copping a bit of heat behind the scenes. She may be feeling the pressure which would kinda explain her letting her guard down to make a comment like this.
     
  11. Serious question. Most modern consoles launched with ~20 titles on day one. I'm not talking back-compat - I'm talking new titles that take advantage of the new platform. This can be re-masters, games that ship on past-gen and new gen, or new-gen exclusives. Quick search: X1 had 22. PS4 had 23, Pro had 30. Going back; 360 had 18 and PS3 had 14. Playstation 1 had 10.

    We had over 50 Xbox One X Enhanced titles on launch day; 67 as of today.

    When I check this list - I see nothing all the way back in the neighborhood of 50.

    http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_video_game_console_launch_games

    What am I missing?
     
  12. TheWickedSoul

    TheWickedSoul Member

    And it lead to harassment to Ryan and people here went after her. How hard is it to see?
     
  13. Rembrandt

    Rembrandt Member

    welp, this should be interesting if anybody decides to fall on that sword.
     
  14. After getting the full context... I am still baffled that she got involved with this publicly.
     
  15. TemplarDante

    TemplarDante Member

    Geez MS..this is bringing back memories of Che Chou and the Forza poll bribes on Cnet I think it was? , all those years ago. Not a good look, guys.

    MS really need to have better control over what their execs tweet on social media. Even Aaron Greenberg has been guilty of encouraging mobs to fuel the console war in the early days of Xbox One etc.
     
  16. Matt

    Matt Moderator

    That's not what Loftis said. She said Ryan "[doesn't] need to actively discourage people from playing the game." Which, well, he wasn't. Someone added him to a conversation, and he talked about the merit of using player scores, and reiterated his feelings on the game.

    But even if Ryan was doing what you claim, it doesn't matter. It's Ryan's job to talk about his opinions on games, and Loftis should not have spoken down to him in such a way, and certainly not publicly. That was, again, unprofessional.
     
  17. Speaking of which is the title going to be fixed or deleted since it is not the actual quote?
     
  18. Glenn Gould

    Glenn Gould Member

    Surely launch content with a console shouldn't just include games that you've defined as launch games. The launch games that were available for the X and Pro in terms of numbers are the games that were available to play on launch day rather than a curated list that is chosen specifically to enhance the reputation of the company that the person who curated it works for.

    Both the X and Pro are iterations of currently available consoles that play exactly the same games, it's incorrect to think of them in the same way as when the one and PS4 launched,.
     
  19. sangreal

    sangreal Member

    Actively discouraging someone from playing the game is exactly what he did. You have this guy, who clearly wants to believe that the game is good despite having read Ryan's review. Ryan's response was not to elaborate on his opinion of the game but to pull out metacritic stats to show how bad the game is. That's not his opinion at all and doesn't serve any purpose other than to, as she said, actively discourage this fan from playing the game. Was it unprofessional of her? Yeah, probably, but so was going after a reader for calling IGN the worst
     
  20. Rembrandt

    Rembrandt Member

    lol, am i misreading or are you saying he curated that wikia link?
     
  21. They are backward compatible with the xbox one. Is this even a real question?
     
  22. Glenn Gould

    Glenn Gould Member

    No, I'm commenting on what I said.

    Him claiming that "enhanced" games for the Pro and X are the available launch games for a console is incorrect so for to compare them to actual launch releases is completely pointless, it means nothing.
     
  23. Sydle

    Sydle Member

    Yikes. Not a good look for Loftis.

    Hopefully she apologizes.
     
  24. Matt

    Matt Moderator

    He used meteoritic to show that his own option was not far outside the general critic consensus, and to illustrate why he feels user reviews are a flawed metric.

    It is in no way Ryan's job to try and protect this guys feelings about the game. He was being talked about in a twitter thread he was invited to participate in, and he did so.

    And in addition, Ryan's behavior has no affect on if Loftis acted unprofessionally.
     
  25. TemplarDante

    TemplarDante Member

    Exactly.. since the PS4 pro and Xbox 1 X are still essentially PS4's and Xbox Ones, Im not even sure what Panello means. In fact, funnily enough, it read like spin..
     
  26. That is exactly how I read it as well.
     
  27. Interesting. In every console launch I have been a part of, the number of "launch titles" has always been a metric. As you know, I was doing a number of interviews prior to launch, and at the top of many lists of questions was "how many launch titles will you have that take advantage of the new console?" In fact, many people leading up to launch were suggesting that developers would not heavily support this console. So my assumption based on the number of questions I was getting was that the launch title metric was still important.

    So - I did some research and realized that we were going to have more "launch titles" than any other console.

    Now - if you were to count "playable titles" that honor would go to the PlayStation 3 by a wide margin, having the HW ability to play the PS1 and PS2 games would have put it in the thousands.

    If I ever said we had more total titles to play, I misspoke. I think what we said was that we had more Launch Titles, which is quantifiably true, and I think I explained what I meant by that number on GB as well.
     
  28. Glenn Gould

    Glenn Gould Member

    That's the exact issue I have with that list, it's a carefully curated list that he's comparing to a uncurated lists for proper console launches.

    Of course, he can do that but it's just not relevant to anything that's happening on here. In much the same way I could make a list of games that launched at the same time as the X and Pro which didn't also appear on the Switch. It would be a fine list on it's own terms but it serves no purpose and adds nothing to what's being discussed here.
     
  29. CRIMSON-XIII

    CRIMSON-XIII Member

    If he ever wanted to work at Xbox, hopefully this does not halt that. I know sometimes people can hold grudges, even professionals. I don't know what to make of the review yet. It does sound like it is overly trashing it?
     
  30. cakely

    cakely Member

  31. Knight613

    Knight613 Member

    I think it's a fair mistake to make either way. Though to be honest, while it technically is a "new" console, it isn't technically a new console. It's a beefed up version of the console you already make and plays every game on it. That's kind of where it sounds like spinning.

    For instance, when Nintendo puts out the New 3DS, they don't go around claiming it has X number of launch games the day it's out.
     
  32. InsaneTiger

    InsaneTiger Member

    The Albert comment is very off topic. Enhanced games are not launch titles. The X1X and Pro are both just higher spec versions of their launch cousins but they are still just Xboxes Ones and PS4s, playing the entire library regardless of it being patched.

    Both are new consoles but not a new generation.
     
  33. Rembrandt

    Rembrandt Member

    it's not incorrect in terms of launch content that takes advantage of the hardware you bought it for, which is an important metric, isn't it? i probably wouldn't compare it to 360/PS3 launch or anything like that, though.
    literally says:
     
  34. Griever

    Griever Member

    The damage control is strong in this thread.
     
  35. I made that caveat above. Titles that take advantage of the new platform. I looked at how the industry talked about PS4 Pro, and they also talked about "launch games".

    I used exactly the same historical definition used for any console, including PS4 Pro.

    BTW I should not have hijacked this thread with a different point so I apologize.
     
  36. For this point, I agree and I apologize.

    For this point, I disagree since I watched the industry use the exact same term for the PS4 Pro launch.

    Sony themselves talked about 40 launch titles. So if I say 50 launch titles, why am I spinning?

    https://blog.us.playstation.com/2016/11/03/39-games-enhanced-for-ps4-pro-launch/

    I'm really trying to understand how anything we said was spin, damage control or PR. We used the same terms.
     
  37. TemplarDante

    TemplarDante Member

    Are you aware, PS4 Pro is still a PS4. and Xbox One X is an Xbox One? Their not new platforms.


    Agreed.
     
  38. "The following 40+ titles will be optimized for the new hardware on launch day. "

    That doesn't say launch titles. Position of where words show in a sentence do matter.
     
  39. bcatwilly

    bcatwilly Member

    Thanks for stopping in Albert. I don't care what people want to call them, all I know is that I feel like the Xbox One X is next generation level on the large numer of enhanced "launch" games that I have played so far. I have literally owned every game console for the last couple decades and several high end PC gaming rigs, and this is awesome. People should just go play more games on their system of choice or maybe consider an Xbox One X if they want the best console game versions for the next few years :)
     
  40. Nightengale

    Nightengale Member

    If you want to carry on the conversation; this thread is not the right place.

    Albert is technically correct in his specific choice of definition, but Albert, you must be also be aware that enthusiast forums like this care and place an emphasis on new content. People have different sense of valuation in the weight of words, and it is nothing more than a difference in semantics at this point.
     
  41. I think there could probably be a distinction made between launch titles and launch content. Saying XB1X has the most launch content sounds fine to me while saying launch titles just feels somewhat disingenuous.

    Then again maybe that's just splitting hairs at that point, I don't know.
     
  42. orthodoxy1095

    orthodoxy1095 Member

    Video game reviews (at least the majority of mainstream ones) are functionally consumer guides. Some outlets go so far as to use "buy," "sale" or "don't buy" scales instead of numerical scales.

    So what exactly is wrong with a critic discouraging someone from wasting money on what they feel is a waste of money?
     
  43. Jaxar

    Jaxar Member

    For starters they used the term "optimized for PS4 Pro", not "launch titles", so no you aren't using the same terms.

    Secondly this is all way off topic for this thread anyway. Maybe a new thread should be started to address Albert's concerns.
     
  44. Rembrandt

    Rembrandt Member

    what's the difference between saying you have 40+ titles at launch and saying you have 40+ launch titles?

    tell me what the first phrase means and then tell me what the second means.
     
  45. Glenn Gould

    Glenn Gould Member

    The issues that I have with the post is that he's also comparing those numbers to launch title numbers of consoles like the N64, PlayStation, Dreamcast, etc, etc which are very different things. He can make that list any time that he wants to but as soon as he's comparing to lists about completely different to make his seem more impressive then the list has no meaning. He's just not comparing the same things.

    It's akin to that infamous Polygon Mario Kart pie chart in that it's absolutely nonsensical.

    I could well be wrong but I think one of the issues that you'll see people on here having with posts like that is akin to the issues that people have with the very tweet that this thread is about, it's just that at times there seems to be a complete lack of understating from the people who speak on behalf of Microsoft this generation. I'm in no way suggesting that this is unique to Microsoft and it's not intended to be a personal comment about either of the employees that I've mentioned but there's a certain clumsiness to how Microsoft seems to deal with these things this generation.

    I'm very happy with my X, as I am with all the console I own but I shake my head at the fact that when posting the original tweet they don't know people would take it and I have the same feeling about at that launch title list. They're equally misguided, to me.

    EDIT:
    Let's be honest, this isn't really going to affect anything, it's just not that important No sales are going to be lost, nobody is going to die because of it but it's surely going to be an issue on very, very local level when something like this happens and then it's repeated by another employee of the same company in a thread on here.

    It's not world changing, it is only what it is.
     
  46. The titles don't come out at launch. Its a pretty big difference.
     
  47. v_iHuGi

    v_iHuGi Banned Member

    Xbox One X launch actually has more support from Microsoft than Ps4 Pro with Sony, I mean we didn't even get Bloodborne or Driveclub patch but Microsoft did patch Killer Instinct and older games, heck even Halo 3 got patched.

    Seriously night and day approaches.
     
  48. ZhugeEX

    ZhugeEX Sleeping Dragon Administrator

    Ok. This thread is starting to go extremely off topic.

    I also think everything that needs to be said has been said so I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread.

    If you'd like to continue discussing Xbox One X games then please use the Xbox One X thread or feel free to create a new thread.

    Thank you.

    https://www.resetera.com/threads/xbox-one-x-ot-the-scorpio-king.3680
     
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