Time to accept your work is not perfect...
C'mon the review is not bad at all.
And big lol to the tweet about user reviews score lol
C'mon the review is not bad at all.
And big lol to the tweet about user reviews score lol
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Xbox's Shannon Loftis to IGN reviewer: "dont discourage people from playing our game"
- Thread starter Deleted member 1185
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Regardless of that, "I don't think people should play this game" is a completely valid opinion in any context by any person, professional reviewer or not.
Seriously. Honestly it's the biggest problem with Xbox right now. It's led by people who are Microsoft lifers, not people who have a wide and diverse understanding of the games industry after years of working across different publishers and platforms. And even then their experience comes from different departments and disciplines outside of gaming. That's painting with a broad brush, but when you show up to E3 with a completely tone deaf message of morons wearing shirts that say "I witnessed the most powerful console ever" it makes you wonder what the fuck they're thinking.
When I saw SLT at E3 I was very interested in playing it. McCaffrey wasn't writing for children, he was writing for me. Or people like me who own an Xbox, 'cause I don't lol.
they've just kinda been all over the place this gen when it comes to having a consistent message. it's interesting in some aspects and limiting in others.
It for some reason caught me off-guard, I edited the post to mention it really shouldn't surprise me because it's about a developer/reviewer conflict/non-conflict, and there's arguments that can be made for whatever side. But it really reminded me how some people here/in the previous community were quick to draw judgments and form a concrete opinion from some ambiguity and for some reason many seem really judgmental of anyone who does even something slightly controversial or unusual on the internet even if it doesn't really say anything isolated, and lacks a deeper layer both as it's just a slightly frustrated tweet to someone leaving a legitimate review, and then blowing up over what was honestly a pretty harmless exchange from what I can tell as people fill in the blanks with their own disposition and taking things at a face value.
Uh... that's how people base their opinions on most things in life. You won't find any people who base their opinions solely on facts they've read in encyclopedias.
I'm very aware, but one can hope better for the community they participate in, especially when it's all rather silly in some people fueling some viewpoint that seems basically misplaced here and just self-projecting. I realize everyone has their viewpoint and by me doing this I'm somewhat 'projecting' too, but there's a lack of self-awareness that makes the topic a bit baffling, maybe because the source of it is so mundane. I understand that leads to people filling it in to a preposition they had before entering the thread and filtering it through whatever lens they have on the broader topic, but it almost comes off like a caricature to me.
PlayStation is led by Sony lifers. I don't think that's the problem.
I was thinking more along the lines of people that represent billion dollar companies and say stupid things that negatively affect the brand they're representing that can easily just not be said.
Tbh, that didn't feel like a good review to me... in the sense that it didn't really tell me much about the game, apart from what isn't working. Wasn't extremely harsh, but not very informative either.
I get all the fuss about devs calling out on reviewers though. Shouldn't happen.
I get all the fuss about devs calling out on reviewers though. Shouldn't happen.
Ryan is probably one of the most obnoxious people on Twitter, followed him for a couple of days till I realized his insight into the industry is as shallow as Colin Cowherd, also tends to stick his nose where it doesn't belong, trying to act like the level headed one.
Shannon also makes my head spin, not a fan
Shannon also makes my head spin, not a fan
It's not a problem when said lifers are good at their jobs and show smart leadership. Meanwhile MS's exec team completely bungled this gen and have a near non-existent to irrelevant first party presence. Gotta wonder when it's time to bring in new blood.
Alright, this has been a bit difficult to parse through. As far as I can tell, this is what happened:
1). In response to Ryan's review, some Xbox fans started to argue with him on Twitter.
2). At some point before or after, Ryan encouraged people not to pick up the game.
3). Loftis jumped in with at least two tweets. Together, these tweets expressed the sentiment that Ryan's review made good points and people should stop harassing him, but also that he shouldn't actively discourage people from buying the game.
Am I off somewhere? Because based on what I've seen, Loftis' worse sin was getting a little defensive, and allowing that defensiveness to color the level of maliciousness she perceived in Ryan's remarks directly telling people not to buy the game.
Certainly inadvisable, but far from the "fuck the press" sentiment some have characterized it as. Did I miss something?
1). In response to Ryan's review, some Xbox fans started to argue with him on Twitter.
2). At some point before or after, Ryan encouraged people not to pick up the game.
3). Loftis jumped in with at least two tweets. Together, these tweets expressed the sentiment that Ryan's review made good points and people should stop harassing him, but also that he shouldn't actively discourage people from buying the game.
Am I off somewhere? Because based on what I've seen, Loftis' worse sin was getting a little defensive, and allowing that defensiveness to color the level of maliciousness she perceived in Ryan's remarks directly telling people not to buy the game.
Certainly inadvisable, but far from the "fuck the press" sentiment some have characterized it as. Did I miss something?
MSs version of Trump tweeting 'fake news' - wonder if she's feeling pressure in her current position as it doesn't seem like she doing a particularly great job (but neither did her predecessor).
Of all the games MS are doing I wouldn't expect a reaction to poor reviews of something like Super Lucky Tale though.
ps3ud0 8)
Of all the games MS are doing I wouldn't expect a reaction to poor reviews of something like Super Lucky Tale though.
ps3ud0 8)
Not upset she is trying to stick up for her product. I don't agree with her comment and I am sure Ryan was taken back but I understand her motive. Not saying it is right, but when you invest so much of your time on something, it's hard to see it get ripped apart by the press.
I also think people are putting more words in her mouth than she actually spoke.
I also think people are putting more words in her mouth than she actually spoke.
The man is a reviewer. It's his informed opinion, as he is paid to provide it. This man did not give the game a good score, PR goes after said reviewer.
"Discourage" - how? Individually from tweets? Or by not putting out his honest opinion on one of the biggest general game's media sites? I can understand the frustration from said Microsoft spokesperson, but social media just exacerbates the situation. I mean who the hell (console warrior or not) is ready to harass over Super Lucky's Tale? Was this the next big thing?
If anything, McAffrey stood by Microsoft through it all - maybe a little too much for his own good. But specifically pointing out a reviewer with the intent of blaming s/he for turning people away from the game is just ill advised. And there's no containment either, even the follow up "good work" tweet feels like people are ready and willing for any game to harass and defend.
"Discourage" - how? Individually from tweets? Or by not putting out his honest opinion on one of the biggest general game's media sites? I can understand the frustration from said Microsoft spokesperson, but social media just exacerbates the situation. I mean who the hell (console warrior or not) is ready to harass over Super Lucky's Tale? Was this the next big thing?
If anything, McAffrey stood by Microsoft through it all - maybe a little too much for his own good. But specifically pointing out a reviewer with the intent of blaming s/he for turning people away from the game is just ill advised. And there's no containment either, even the follow up "good work" tweet feels like people are ready and willing for any game to harass and defend.
1. Ryan reviewed the game.
2. Fanboys were saying to not listen to reviewers like him because "actual gamers" rated the game 4.7 stars on the store.
3. Ryan comments that "actual gamers" didn't need to play the game in order to rate it whereas professional reviewers actually have to play the game in order to do a review.. (Note, even though that sounds wrong, he is actually correct since you only need to have purchased a game in order to rate it on the store. See Crackdown 3 for instance.)
4. Shannon comes in with her comment. Which, even in context of the thread of tweets, seems really random and in poor judgment.
5. Fanboys start attacking Ryan on Twitter.
6. Shannon has to tell people to stop attacking Ryan on Twitter.
On one hand she spoke up when she shouldn't have and said something stupid but on the other hand at least she came back to his defense against the idiot Xbox fanboys. Hopefully she learned from this exchange.
This isn't really true. Besides, Mattrick had a deverse background in the industry and almost killed the Xbox brand. Things aren't always as they appear to be.
This isn't really true. Besides, Mattrick had a deverse background in the industry and almost killed the Xbox brand. Things aren't always as they appear to be.
Yeah, you don't call out people specifically when you're in that position. Context doesn't matter.
Especially not in today's online climate where comments like this embolden the assholes that harass people over review scores of all things.
I don't think there was any malicious intent here but having to tell your fanbase to calm the fuck down is a clear sign you fucked up.
Especially not in today's online climate where comments like this embolden the assholes that harass people over review scores of all things.
I don't think there was any malicious intent here but having to tell your fanbase to calm the fuck down is a clear sign you fucked up.
This kind of seems like non-news. Microsoft has always enabled the Xbox Twitter Cult, and this is just an extension of that.
I'd stop mentioning Tim Dog, though. He had an unhealthy obsession with the other forum and he's probably obsessed with resetera as well.
I'd stop mentioning Tim Dog, though. He had an unhealthy obsession with the other forum and he's probably obsessed with resetera as well.
Well Ryan is a reviewer. He did his job. He wasn't keen on the game and used his own social media account to tell people this. Then shitty idiotic fanboys jumped on him. Shannon jumped the gun a little bit and probably shouldn't have said what she did but neither did anything particularly wrong per se. If you wanna pluck out a couple iffy decisions, Ryan responding to trolls in the first place and Shannon telling him to stop saying bad things about the game are where it all went wrong.
Either way, a review is just someones opinion. People need to learn to respect that.
Either way, a review is just someones opinion. People need to learn to respect that.
She shouldn't have done that, especially when you have fanboys on Twitter out there looking for anything that makes their system seem less than great.
The issue is the latter part of point 3. It's not a huge deal, but the fact that it's the head of Microsoft Studios Publishing saying it is why this thread exists. Responding to Ryan in that manner can be seen as unprofessional and ultimately as an attempt to dismiss Ryan's review and thoughts of the game.
What's unfortunate is once again a small vocal minority has taken it upon themselves to harass a reviewer because said reviewer gave a game a low score. I hope no one on this forum has participated in such behavior.
Anyway. There isn't a huge amount to discuss here. Most of what needs to be said has been said.
I was on Twitter when this happened.
- Mike Ybarra posted Eurogamer's recommend review of Luckys Tale and
- Ryan commented on it saying it was a bad game.
- Shannon Loftis who loves Lucky and surely greenlighted it commented in jest to Ryan that she appreciates his review but wishes he wouldn't actively discourage people from playing it. (Basically, why comment on another reviewer liking it)
- Then the rabbid dipshits like TimDog came out and started shit with Ryan.
- Shannon saw this and asked the fanboys to cut out the bullshit because she respected Ryan.
- Basically a quick comment between two people who know each other became fanboy fodder.
There was a massive hangover from the utter devasting damage to both the Xbox brand and division that Mattrick and Ballmer caused, and it seems Phil has only convinced Satya within the last couple of years to truly take gaming seriously.
X kind of takes Microsoft back to their core, of a premium powerful machine like the very original Xbox was. Phil now reports directly to Satya and he already indicated recently that they are going to take first party more seriously again with more consistent investment. Satya also made a big deal about gaming in the most recent MS conference call. So things seem to be looking up again after a messy few years.
Phil has delivered significant leaps forward in the last few years, from BC to the X. First party needs massive attention now though, I can agree on that.
I would agree that Loftis, being in the position that she's in, should have avoided engaging with Ryan's criticism at all. However, as far as I can tell, she wasn't responding to the review itself. In fact, to the extent that she did, she acknowledged it had good points. It seems to have been Ryan's hostile tweets on Twitter that took her aback - which, honestly, would have been fair enough in most cases, except that someone in her position needs to be a bit more impervious to perceived maliciousness/toxicity.
All of this isn't to say that this isn't threadworthy, or that Loftis didn't make a mistake. The response here seems to have been vastly exaggerated, though, to the point that some have compared her to Donald Trump of all people.
I'd take issue with #2 as that isn't exactly what happened. You can see the context in the second screenshot in the OP.
He commented on that thread because people were calling out his review and saying user reviews were scored higher.
Not sure what tweets you're referring to. Do you have a link?
The more time goes on the more I feel like Loftis really isn't cut out for the position that she has.
All her interviews read like robotic, rehearsed PR junk and then you add in stuff like this.
If she was killing it in regards to first party then I'd say yeah, whatever, but she's far from doing that right now.
All her interviews read like robotic, rehearsed PR junk and then you add in stuff like this.
If she was killing it in regards to first party then I'd say yeah, whatever, but she's far from doing that right now.
According to the timeline posted a few pages back, wasn't someone else who added Ryan to the conversation, and he only replied when someone said that IGN reviews are the worse and mocked him about being a journalist?
Anyway, I don' find Shannon comment that bad, but I think she should be careful with what her says, specially if she has an executive position.
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User was banned (1 week) - Take your anti Xbox posts elsewhere. You've been warned multiple times now for posts like this.
Develop good games instead of crying about reviews. Shameful behavior as usual from MS.
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