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Xenoblade Chronicles 2 preview embargo up - Impressions
- Thread starter SpottieO
- Start date
This is completely false though.
You should take a look at some of the popular smartphone games like Shadowverse and Fate GO, and it has plenty of similar questionable designs.
And these get far wider mass marketing, even more so than stuff like Mario and Zelda.
My main issue is with Pyra, who is pretty unavoidable in cutscenes and as part of the story.
I get that a lot of people might not understand where I am (and other people might be) coming from, and that's why I took the time to write out my thoughts on it.
I'd definitely take something like this as worse than Pyra.
It's highly sexualized and a bit dumb, but I still think it looks better than Pyra. If you covered the out of place open chest, it would look more cohesive and maybe even "cool." However, it is one of my problems with Xenosaga Ep. III, however, and has always been.
I don't think so. It seems like people here are bothered by it but not bothered enough to avoid the game all together.
Really? Soraya Saga is really that involved again, has she said anything? Is she writing again? Links???????
Honestly, it doesn't feel like it. I remember it was her who put a foot down with gears when designs like this were discussed for characters like elly and miyang and other women cast members of gears.... And she still wasn't thrilled with how the character and just other women characters in general were treated.... So she comes back and monolithsoft slides further into their Achilles heel?
But on the other hand, what little I have allowed myself to see, actually seems really well written and characterized, its just the designs that are out of place... Even more out of place considering...
I really do hope she is more involved again, even if the guest designs are saturated with garbage, her writing really is aces. Figaro bros for life.
The designs are a real turn-off for me and a lot of other people, so we have to talk about our frustration. It's precisely because we love the prior games that we're so frustrated with these designs. Heck, I don't even know if I can take the story seriously like this.
I don't have any links off hand, but I do believe she is involved with the writing this time. She also did a male character design, which I personally think looks silly.
Did she really put her foot down? That happened? Wow.
I can see how it can be frustrating for people that want to discuss the game that the conversation keeps circling back to the character designs, but on the other hand, there isn't a lot of discuss right now either. Previews have gone up, and it's a few days until the release of the game. I'm sure that once the game is in people's hands discussion will flow to actual impressions and discussion about the game as a whole.
That said, the one reason I I think why this discussion won't end and is only getting more heated (judging by the last couple of pages), is because of the unwillingness of both sides to accept each others opinion or views, without throwing out words like "political agenda", "hypocrisy", "otaku", "toxicity", "SJWs" etc. Especially with some posters practically bragging about muting posters on the other side of the discussion, that invites a lot of animosity (though it's their right to use the ignore feature of course). When the defending side keeps making comparisons to shonen manga/anime, especially One Piece, and uses that to justify the designs in this game because "that's just how shonen is", or tells people to not use Pyra in your party (you can't unequip her if you're using Rex, not to mention that she is always featured prominently in cutscenes), it comes across as saying "just deal with it", while I think the response should be "I can see how it could make you uncomfortable, let's hope the good (the game) outweighs the bad (the designs)" and move on. If both sides keep telling the other side how they should be feeling, that's just throwing oil on the fire and this will never end.
For the record, I stopped watching/reading One Piece because I felt increasingly disturbed by the character designs, despite being a huge fan of the series in the past. I don't know how much money I spent on merchandise, but it's a lot. And then feeling alienated from a fanbase because of the artists' design choices, feels pretty shitty. When I first saw Xenoblade 2's trailer and Pyra's design, I did not feel attracted to the game at all. I 100% completed Xenoblade Chronicles (it's my favorite game ever) and I bought a Japanese Wii U to play X when it came out in Japan, but Pyra's design immediately turned me off and I was disappointed in the direction the game seemed to be taking. And judging from the many complaints in this thread, it's the same for a lot of people. That doesn't mean they're not going to play the game (though some might not) or even dislike the game, or want to push some political agenda or see the game fail or whatever, it just means that something that is extremely unnecessary was added to the game that results in disappointment from fans and possibly the alienation of a lot of new, potential fans. And that is a perfectly fine opinion to have or to discuss, just as it is fine to be absolutely okay with the designs or even liking them. As long as we both understand where the other is coming from.
That said, the one reason I I think why this discussion won't end and is only getting more heated (judging by the last couple of pages), is because of the unwillingness of both sides to accept each others opinion or views, without throwing out words like "political agenda", "hypocrisy", "otaku", "toxicity", "SJWs" etc. Especially with some posters practically bragging about muting posters on the other side of the discussion, that invites a lot of animosity (though it's their right to use the ignore feature of course). When the defending side keeps making comparisons to shonen manga/anime, especially One Piece, and uses that to justify the designs in this game because "that's just how shonen is", or tells people to not use Pyra in your party (you can't unequip her if you're using Rex, not to mention that she is always featured prominently in cutscenes), it comes across as saying "just deal with it", while I think the response should be "I can see how it could make you uncomfortable, let's hope the good (the game) outweighs the bad (the designs)" and move on. If both sides keep telling the other side how they should be feeling, that's just throwing oil on the fire and this will never end.
For the record, I stopped watching/reading One Piece because I felt increasingly disturbed by the character designs, despite being a huge fan of the series in the past. I don't know how much money I spent on merchandise, but it's a lot. And then feeling alienated from a fanbase because of the artists' design choices, feels pretty shitty. When I first saw Xenoblade 2's trailer and Pyra's design, I did not feel attracted to the game at all. I 100% completed Xenoblade Chronicles (it's my favorite game ever) and I bought a Japanese Wii U to play X when it came out in Japan, but Pyra's design immediately turned me off and I was disappointed in the direction the game seemed to be taking. And judging from the many complaints in this thread, it's the same for a lot of people. That doesn't mean they're not going to play the game (though some might not) or even dislike the game, or want to push some political agenda or see the game fail or whatever, it just means that something that is extremely unnecessary was added to the game that results in disappointment from fans and possibly the alienation of a lot of new, potential fans. And that is a perfectly fine opinion to have or to discuss, just as it is fine to be absolutely okay with the designs or even liking them. As long as we both understand where the other is coming from.
Furry Hitomi Tanaka was revealed concurrently with Little Girl and her Best Friend, Coca Cola Christmas for a reason.
Equalizing the effect.
Right, but what you're saying is that because some games show these things, that they aren't taken seriously as a hobby. Were that the case, you certainly wouldn't see the widespread public acclaim for anime and manga in Japan. Just like in places like the US, attitudes towards games in Japan are changing as people who enjoyed them as children grow up. View of games as a "niche" hobby doesn't have anything to do with a few skimpy character designs.
From a thousand blades, two are bothering people on ERA.
C'mon, they aren't alienating anyone besides some users, which is totally legitimate, since the character design actually raises this social approach over the game.
This forum is quite plural, though, and there are some people here really liking the designs (backed up with good arguments too, if you ask me) and trying to discuss values intrinsically linked to the nuances of the game itself, without entering the social merit of it, which I also find to be totally legitimate.
It's just a shame that the two discussions happens to occur at the same time, in the same thread.
It bothers me to the point that had the Takahashi name not been attached I would not touch this game. I was very close to dropping it entirely. I am a person who owns dozens of Japanese RPGs, around 80-100.
I don't think this is true. Manga is varied and considered legitimate. People are more hot and cold on anime and not all anime is considered equal. There's anime and then there's anime. "My daughter is into anime" is something an embarrassed mother says. I think these designs do affect how the general public sees games, especially going forward now that these designs are more common than they were the past. The further games embrace the otaku market, the more marginalized it will be. That world is considered weird.
Why is it a problem that two different viewpoints on the same issue (character designs) are being discussed concurrently?
I think the problem is because they just don't go anywhere. It goes back and forth. It's not good discussion at this point.
Yeah, and she was still pretty irritated with certain aspects of gears. And she refused namcos nonsense so they shelved her.
Ha! Spearboy? Yeah its silly. Sad thing is spearboy is still one of the more acceptable designs.
But i mean, its fantasy, its supposed to have some goofy and sexy, and especially botched attempts at sexy that becomes goofy... But damn, have something else too, or at least let us change the outfits.
Because we are discussing about what should be discussed. This is counterproductive.
In the end, any discussion is no longer addressed, and what we've got is just a confused tangle of people trying to define what other people should be debating.
It's a forum that discusses nothing
That's what a discussion is though, isn't it? An exchange, a back and forth. It's nice if people can make progress through a discussion, but the majority of all human discourse isn't about proving or changing something, it's just talking about things that are important to you and sharing those thoughts with others.
Shadow Verse international release even edited the bust of one character. As if it would make a difference...
First: This stupid Lin outfit got rightfully removed on the West, but Elma actually looks like an adult with more realistic proportions. Pyra's breasts look comically huge and are larger than her fucking head. Images from this game got laughs from people at my job because it's just impossible to take characters like her seriously. If you like the style, it's fine, but no one I know liked it.
Second: That XCX bunny outfit is entirely optional and hard AF to get due to item grinding, so I personally never even tried after seeing the list of needed items. For the record, I have nothing against fanservice in optional items. Just keep them optional. A basic Xenoblade thing that XC2 did away with it.
Third: XC1 had many cringe-worthy outfits, mainly for Sharla - with even the heaviest ones leaving her breasts exposed but covering EVERYTHING ELSE, and the Attack V Frame for Fiora - which even got my wife seriously rolling her eyes. Let's stop with this revisionism.
That's all. I sincerely hope people who'll buy XC2 enjoy the heck out of it, but as a Xenoblade series fan, I'm pissed that this time they decided to make gratuitous fanservice front and center, not merely optional hard-to-get items, so it's not for me.
Here's hoping that Monolithsoft will abandon this visual direction in XC3.
Wait what that awful bunny thing is a 'kos mos' equivalent... ?
Nah... I mean, even as bad as her outfits got, it was never that bad...
And besides, Kos-mos's spirit animal isnt a bunny, its a howitzer.
Progress? Are you kidding me? Just read through this thread.
Xenosaga is a weird situation where not only do certain parts of Ep. I not make sense in the context of Ep. III, but neither do what Saga claimed she had planned for Ep. II.
Before I continue, just to be clear, I don't actually disagree with you that these designs could be more tasteful. The perceived need to constantly push fanservice in Japanese media is disheartening.
Having said that, I really feel like you're misjudging the way a lot of this stuff is seen in Japan. Certainly there are people who feel the same way as you in this country - with a population as large as Japan's, that's for certain. "Otaku" has never really been a widely accepted thing here, and if by being "into" something you're talking about being obsessive - then sure. A guy who say's "I'm really into judo." would probably be seen more favorably than a person who says "I'm really into games." But I don't think it's because of sexualized content. There's too much of a permissive "boys will be boys" thing going on for that to be the case. In addition, there are a ton of games that aren't overly fanservicey as well. I just don't feel sexualized content stigmatizes games as much as you think. And I think it's actually a shame.
I don't agree fully with this, we still have to remember that otakuism is a multifaceted thing with multiple different sub genres. Idol otakus aren't the same as anime otakus and anime otakus aren't the same as game otakus, although they tend to heavily overlap. Girls that enjoy manga or anime could be someone that loves shoujo or someone who is a fujoshi. I feel that nowadays the penetration of the huge "otaku" umbrella is so big especially on the people growing up in Asia. Just like you said there is anime and there is "anime". But that line sometimes gets blurred more and more as a lot more people are now exposed to the good the bad and the crazy.
Otakuism's stigma still exist,but it's changed its place in the society multiple times as far as I can tell. You can easily grab any random teen/young person and ask if they've seen or played *insert something* and more people would probably say yes compared to before. It could obviously range from the basic shounen and start to dive into the further otaku fandom into love live and sword art online and the like. This is not limited to Japan, many Asian countries have kids growing up on these stuff nowadays and so much of that stuff is just normal.
Someone brought up Shadowverse and I think that is a great example, the game is huge and if you look at the art style and designs of the cards in that game...people really aren't thinking about those things the way western society think about those things. While you think xenoblade is diving into that otaku spectrum which is marginalizing it, then why are there so many popular things amongst younger people that has the exact same style?
I don't think anyone talked about it yet but I really think we should finally start discussing this important issue. I know it's a very unpopular opinion but I need to get it off my chest:
I don't like Pyra's design.
I don't like Pyra's design.
Am I one of the cool kids now?
No, you're one of the bad ones who's probably in an unhealthy relationship and a prude
Yeah, if they were going to have breast physics they should have at least made it somewhat realistic rather than.... whatever it is that I just saw with the bear lady.
Regardless of whether or not it does or doesn't, I think that these designs do stand out more in a conservative country where women don't show as much skin as people are commonly accustomed to in countries like the US. In other words, I don't think "it's just Japanese culture" arguments hold any weight, even if Japanese culture may have created a place for them to exist. I mean, these designs come out of a country where cleavage isn't really a thing.
I'm personally not comfortable with saying I'm into games in Japan.
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If anything, I'd rather have goofy "breast physics" than anything "realistic". That'd be fucking creepy. But that may just be me.
And of course no "breast physics" would be nice too, but heh.
Edit:
If you're talking about Japan then if I'm not mistaken before they were invaded by the US they weren't a "prude" country at all. See Japanese engravings and really just the way people lived. They had no issue showing skin. But of course that was decades ago.
I've made this comparison before, but the black ice blade with the spear and stripper dance reminds me of Fei Rin from Anarchy Reigns. She had the ice element, the spear, and the stripper dance, but was done much better (and her boobs didn't jiggle to a ridiculous degree)
Heh, the context of this thread made that awkward.
Nah man its not a problem, like ff, each game is a self contained story if not universe.
People are skipping a game (they want otherwise) because of 2 or 3 character designs?
.......okay.
I'm not even a particular fan of the character designs myself (I like Rex though) either. I'm more or less indifferent.
And XBCX everyone said they hated the designs and I found them just fine.
Fuck do people want? It sounds like Monolithsoft isn't allowed to make "anime" designs. XBCX and XBC2 both have bad designs now?
Or this just about the sexualization? I don't care about that stuff as much as the next guy but it doesn't offend me or turn me off to the point of skipping a game for it. Geez.
.......okay.
I'm not even a particular fan of the character designs myself (I like Rex though) either. I'm more or less indifferent.
And XBCX everyone said they hated the designs and I found them just fine.
Fuck do people want? It sounds like Monolithsoft isn't allowed to make "anime" designs. XBCX and XBC2 both have bad designs now?
Or this just about the sexualization? I don't care about that stuff as much as the next guy but it doesn't offend me or turn me off to the point of skipping a game for it. Geez.
They have different types of anime designs and some people like one over the other. And yes, some people can not like either
So in this game all your weapons are large chested anime ladies?
I kinda feel like another game has done that before.
I kinda feel like another game has done that before.