Oh well then. Remember reading an older XB2 thread where he admitted to not playing it.
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Xenoblade Chronicles 2 shipped 1.31 million units. Best-selling "Xeno" title ever?
- Thread starter CGiRanger
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Oh well then. Remember reading an older XB2 thread where he admitted to not playing it.
The funny thing is I think Fates biggest failing is its story, which happened as a direct result of people complaining about Awakening's story being shit so they hired an actual manga writer to do the story. It just so happens that said manga writer wasn't very good at it
Great, hope Nintendo gives them more resources to make something even better on their next outing.
I played for a few hours, but I've put it off because I'm going through Zelda and Dishonored 2. I want to give this game the time it deserves, plus the upgrades will make me want to start over anyway.
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Oh it's totally fine. I mostly played with the camera zoomed out all the way too.
Well, you don't have an Avatar, characters designs are less fanservice, can't marry characters, no second generation and map design is awful.
Fire Emblem Echoes is an excellent game, but it didn't attract fans of Awakening and Fates because of those reasons (except map design, of course).
With the success I wonder if Monolith would be willing to go more space opera with their next IP.
The writing and the character designs in Fates are so bad I had to trade it in just to get it out of my house. They really messed up by hiring that manga writer.
"Respecting your audience" was a jab at Nintendo making Xenoblade 1 a GameStop retailer exclusive in the US. They made that game almost impossible to get your hands on very quickly unless you preordered it.
I remember him complaining about the final boss because he never properly learned how to use a mechanic as essential as chain attacks (I have no idea how he managed to even get that far without learning to use chain attacks properly though)
With MS's first million seller under Nintendo, I hope they get more time and budget for their next games. They're really talented
Nothing. It is actually far less 'otaku-baity' than Awakening or Fates with regards to the character designs, their personalities, the visual aesthetic, etc. It has flaws of course, but it is aesthetically far removed from Awakening and Fates.
I don't disagree with this take at all. That said, I think, for good or for bad, sex sells. I think the best we can hope for is that Nintendo learns both lessons (in an ideal world, they would learn just the former). Fire Emblem Echoes gives me some hope, but I also recognize that specific game was a rather unique situation.
Ah that's what I was likely thinking of then.
That reminds me, I actually need to get around to dealing with the final boss on of these days :eyes:
Marketing isn't either or! It's not have tits or not. It's have tits and also a more accessible gameplay style and also be a more accessible game and also follow the popularity of the previous games...
Fire Emblem certainly was not very accessible, being a strategy RPG series with a reliance on an overwhelming amount of characters and mini-stories that can also die permanently, thus losing content if you're not good at the game... Awakening and Fates' more attractive artstyle and characters obviously clamoured to people, as well as the ability to actually develop these characters and not lose them because of an entirely separate gameplay element.
Yes, we get it, you don't like what they're doing, that's fine, but yes, Xenoblade and Fire Emblem are successes now, no, people aren't desperate or just horny toads, there's a lot of reason to like Fire Emblem Awakening and Fates and Xenoblade 2 on top of its surface elements, and that doesn't mean those elements will "double down on otaku nonsense" like you proclaim.
So if this is the only point you're making, what does "desperation of JRPG fans" have to do with said point? Do you mean that "the right time" is only if there hasn't been a JRPG game on a platform for ages or not at all? If not, why even mention that if it's really not about the quality of XC2?
It's a mediocre in the gameplay department. It's a remake of a rather unpopular entry, it's on 3DS (Switch came and Software took a hit) and got bad reception when they annouced a $40 season pass prior to launch.
Everything else is solid to great. (Amazing Soundtrack, best in the series in my opinion).
So in the end. It's a good game and one you should get. I say it did well in the end. Nintendo said they were happy and it helped their Heroes game out as well.
True, i guess it could reach 2 million over the lifetime of the Switch, especially if the Story DLC is good.
It is shit. It had worst level design than even super easy Fire Emblem Birthright. THe only one praising Echoes is those who masturbate themselves on classic FE so much while dismissing any good things that the new FE had bring.
Why can't it be both? Why can't Fates sold better because Awakening is popular and also it had many character design that resonate with fans?
It is the same argument that we have had again and again on the success of Xeno 2 there. No one is arguing that Xeno 2 benefit a lot from healthy consoles and good release period. However, to dismiss Xeno 2 quality and its charming artstyles to the mass audience is just arguing in bad faith as you are literally selecting what you like to push your agenda there.
You don't want to add the fact that the story is also as shit as Fates there?
Um, I never said she wasn't fanservice. She is. She's not otaku bait. She looks and is designed like an actual adult, lacking child/innocent features. She also is'nt written to be desired as your girlfriend. She's not otaku pandering. Male pandering sure. But either way that's not up for discussion.
It's a shame that the lesson from XB2's unfortunate success will be that these type of characters, designs, and story telling style are what sales. I'm sure those Mythra/Prya figures have sold well. You're not going to get an X sequel or something more like Gears or Saga again. And that is why I hate this game's success, because it makes it harder to visualize them making another hard sci-fi game with older characters and designs that skew to an older fandom. The Otakus ruins another jrpg series in my book.
You can be happy, but this game represents the worst of a series I've followed since the first one and a developer I use to like. It represents them completely moving away from what I liked about them into making cheap anime knock-offs. It's disgusting.
Well this is a lie. I was not active in the OT and it was just the one boss, the final boss because it requires a narrow one way strategy which I ignored during the entire rest of the game. But yes, downplay.
There's a world of diffrence behind the motivation of the two designs. If you don't understand that, I can't help you. But also I don't go to DMC games for the same things I go to Xenoblade games for. I don't have the same expectations or wants. I also play Senran Kagura games, fanservice isn't an issue. Fan serrcive and creepy otaku pandery framing, posing, writing, and designs or not what I want in my jrpgs though. That's not being a hypocrite.
I think Xenoblade 2 would've sold just as well as it did without the over-the-top, pandering character designs. If Pyra was wearing regular clothes or had breasts the size of a normal human being the game would lose nothing, because there is enough content and polish there (regardless of your opinions on the writing or gameplay) to justify a purchase. If there was no six-year-old girl in a thong swimsuit as a recruitable Blade, the game would've lost nothing.
Plus Kemco rpgs must be selling like crazy on Switch of course.
I'd sooner argue that being a 3DS title released shortly after the Switch's release and also being announced in a Direct that also said there was a Switch installment coming did more to dissuade people than lacking an Avatar character. Hell at this point they can probably make a game lacking those elements and they'd still sell just as well because those aspects are not nearly as important to the success of Awakening and Fates.
So I take it we're just going to forget about the much stronger story, better characterization, great character designs and solid presentation overall. I'll admit the maps have aged terribly but you can't just dismiss this game based on that alone.
Also using the same talking points that the old guard uses against your favs doesn't make you look much better from them either.
I mean if by one way narrow strategy you meant utilizing one of the key mechanics in the game then....
And you were absolutely pretty active in the original Xenoblade 2 OT. Like you weren't one of the top 10 posters, but you complained quite a bit in there
Because the game is piss easy and the battle system rather one note, but has a lot of shit on top of it that people misread as complexity.
And Senran Kagura isn't full of "creepy otaku pandery framing, posing, writing, and designs"? Seriously?
Look, I really don't care if you like fanservice or not. I just think saying "this game is in this genre so fanservice is unacceptable, yet I'm totally fine with the same type of fanservice in another genre" is pretty hypocritical and thus hard to take seriously.
Yep, and it would have probably been even better if Monolithsoft were allowed to use their full team again, they had only about 40 people of their own stuff for XB2 the rest was outsourced. I'm anxious to learn about the Fantasy game they make right now.
I like porn. I don't want porn in say Gundam.
It's almost as if people are complex things and not black and white.
No way.
One of the key mechanics that is introduced past half way, easily ignored, and not really needed except for the poorly designed final boss.
And yes 20 or so posts in a thread of thousands is very active.
It doesn't matter, you can keep on lying if you want. You already backpeddled from "a bunch of bosses" to "the final boss". This game's success pisses me off and you fans have ruined another good series.
Why, because you like her? You know what "otaku" means, right? Having a damn artstyle that isn't faux-realistic isn't "otaku pandering".
Xenoblade was never hard sci-fi... This game succeeding doesn't mean shit for XBX, XBX selling like shit means shit for XBX. How dare people buy something I don't like and not harp on about artstyles!
I mean it has the same themes, gameplay, and design as the games that came before it but Pyra's tits are larger than average so it's like an entirely different game!
Mature
No fanservice here
Adult characters
I miss the old days, am I right?
What? Echoes story is mediocre at best and not memorable, but compared to Fates, it is a masterpiece.
Somehow I thought it was released in February instead of May.
As for the lack of Avatar system, I would love to see a new Fire Emblem without it. But it remains to be seen if a game without it can be successful.
hey, maybe, you know, the lessons you're extracting out of this situation are actually completely flawed and the game instead sold that well for the numerous qualities that all of those who played it would be glad to enumerate, while the wrong lesson that you're mentionning are, in fact, a minor part that is always overblown by people exclusively on this board ?
I find it highly disrespectful for the developpers and the fanbase of that game to consider that it sold that well only because of the release timing (on top of being completely ignorant of how the market works and reacts) and consider that the content itself isn't, actually, why people rallied to buy the game. And by the way, the changes you're mentionning as a wrong lesson for Fire Emblem were actually very well received and constitued what the fanbase is now, said fanbase that is much larger than ever before.
Nah. I don't see Echoes story anymore stronger than Birthright at all there. I would even said it is weaker vs Awakening there. Especially with the characterization of Celica. I especially don't think the character design is anything special there when we have Awakening and Fates as barometer. Many always complained that FE Awakening or Fates is filled with tropes while praising Echoes and the first thing i see on Echoes is the Yandere trope on Faye lol. Wow. What a great character.
In a way, the fact that the gameplay itself is not as good as Fates, i had hard time pushing newcomers to Echoes at all there when Awakening or Fates is much more complete package if you ask me.
I am confused how u can even finish RoF with that mentality lol. Just because the game had a single mechanic that u can spammed till death does not mean u should not try to innovate ur self right? It is not the game fault if u are literally handicapping urself there by playing it hard ball on urself.
Well, i can said, sure maybe some of the thing is over the top there that it can looks bad. But i don't think those really effect the whole package of the game so much there. Sure some would probably move away from the game due to pandering characters but i do believe that there are even more coming to buy the game as the art styles now fit more with mainstream audience.
Atelier must sold millions on Switch for sure.^_^
I mean, to play devil's advocate here...I almost see where RX is coming from. There are games that are made specifically to be that. Games designed with the express purpose of appealing to the otaku crowd that market themselves as all tits all the time, and they don't pretend to be anything else. I don't play Senran Kagura or anything like it because I have no interest in that, the same way that I don't play sports games. They're not for me.
But when a game (or series, or developer) that used to not be particularly otaku-focused hard-shifts into otaku territory, that causes friction with the people who LIKED the games or liked the genre but now feel abandoned. It is next to impossible to find a Japanese RPG in the modern era that is not aimed at the otaku audience, which for people who grew up in the SNES/PS1 eras is incredibly frustrating. There is no alternative. There's no safe haven. That's why people are pushing back against these kinds of design choices, because it basically feels like they're "losing" franchises and getting nothing to replace them.
I don't know if that makes sense or not, but that's my read.
Right, people are complex and prone to hypocrisy, I understand that very well, trust me. Saying that the designs in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 are unacceptable but the designs in Senran Kagura are acceptable is hypocritical. You can obviously have that opinion, but you should recognize it's a hypocritical viewpoint. And you shouldn't be surprised when people don't take you seriously because that hypocrisy undermines your position.
I would said, Conquest is certainly one hell of a shit storm story there but compared to the straight forward Birthright, it stays on the same mediocre bad stories there.
I mean personally I'm not a huge fan of Pyra's design either, and I did think things like the breast size were distracting and unnecessary, but I think they're impact on the game is greatly exaggerated tbh
I mean if the only "safe haven" is "the tits aren't as big" or "not as many kid characters" or "I want to pretend cartoons don't exist", it's not like you cared about the series that much.
You're kind of doing him a disservice, since there are actual things in the game besides tits that he doesn't like and thus gets mad at the game for, but he also unashamedly plays Senran Kagura and has Lady as his avatar so I'm especially confused in what I'm reading.
He wants a safe haven from fanservice otaku games but also plays... fanservice otaku games.
I think Fire Emblem Awakening brought a lot of great things to the series and still enjoyed Shadows of Valentia a lot. I doubt I'm in the extreme minority on this or something. It's probably best to drop generalizations like this which have no basis in fact. It's the same thing that people who mindlessly try to downplay the merits and success of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 are doing, you're just replacing it with a game you personally dislike.
And that is shitty argument as the one IP he is fighting for right now is one hella of an otaku pandering IP with Xenosaga existing. Kos-Mos is sexy robot, T-Elos is some sexy robot, Momo is loli pandering. And now suddenly he had hard time accepting that Xeno series is not pandering IP?
You know, i had no problem admitting that Fates had shitty stories or Awakening had bad map design there. I mean, it is proven there that there is problem on Awakening and Fates too.
But what i can't stand is some those who love kicking both Fates and Awakening and act like they are the worst thing ever while praising Echoes like no tomorrow. When Echoes itself is also filled with many stupid problem that in some case i feel makes it worst than Awakening and Fates there.
Why do XB2 threads always derail into Pyra/fanservice/otaku arguments?...There is so much more to the game that has helped it to the sales figure we have. It's like XB2 is the only game to ever pander or have fanservice.
That doesn't make the viewpoint any less hypocritical though. I understand why people feel that way, but it's kind of like when a politician runs on being a 'family values' person and rails against pornography...then gets caught with a prostitute. Sure, they are two separate issues, but they are similar enough that your acceptance of one can undermine your condemnation of the other. You lose credibility on the subject when you engage in a similar behavior to what you are condemning.
I've though a lot about this issue, I consider myself a feminist and care a lot about positive portrayals of women in media. At the same time, I'm a recovering porn addict. I spent nearly half my life living in an extremely hypocritical way, and it was difficult to admit that to myself and begin to change. Do you see the point I'm getting at?
Oh god, I think I had completely forgotten Momo existed until you brought her up. Yeah, I guess that's entirely a fair point.
I don't get it, either. There isn't a single non-starting armor set in the first game for Sharla that doesn't turn her into a space hooker, and one of Fiora's sets has straight-up exposed ass-crack.
Nah you're not in the minority here since both are solid games.
You also forgot to mention that he was using the same cues that people use to shit on FatesAwakening to shit on SoV.
Xenoblade 2 committed the sin of being obviously and unashamedly "anime"; before, you can just pretend that Xenoblade, a story about a young man yelling "FIORA!!" and "I will CHANGE THE FUTURE!" on a quest to kill robots and god with a party consisting of his dumb best friend, his veteran-at-30-ish older mentor, a gunslinger in a bikini, a demure princess, and the lovably annoying mascot character isn't "anime". Look, they're talking about philosophy and shit, their eyes aren't as big--yeah, you can not equip the fanservice outfits but they are still there...
They have a different, "subdued" style of anime, but they're still anime, it was always there, XB2 just shattered the "illusion". People who play Xenoblade will run into Lorinthia (sp) and Egil's sister--whoo boy--and in Xenoblade X they'll discover they can put Lin in a delightfully skimpy outfit for no reason and be subject to repetitive jokes and random quotes.
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