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Mashy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,184
Asian American here...

When I talk to Chinese Americans they'd typically agree with the statement that mainlanders are brainwashed by their government.

I don't think that's attacking Han Chinese as an ethnicity...

Asian Australian here too ...

Exactly the same for us.

OP is warping things, people aren't attacking Chinese people as a whole, even though people like Joe Tsai believe all Chinese people think as a collective on these issues, people are attacking the government.

There are always 2 sides to a coin and this is also true to HK. Some HKers legit want to stay under China.
I understand for a lot of people, as long as they can live comfortably, it doesn't matter who rules the country.
This does not mean they are brainwashed but they just simply have different priority.

That's what one of the 5 demands, Universal Suffrage, is for though. People just want to be able to vote in elections that are non-rigged as promised in their basic law.
 

MoogleWizard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,688
Racists and xenophobes always use legitimate issues as an outlet for their racism and hate. Racism against Asians is common and more accepted than racism targeted against many other groups, so I am not surprised. Add to that the fear of the US hegemony crumbling in face of a rising China and you get people who do not care about the people of Hong Kong feigning concern over recent events.
 

Sera

Member
Oct 27, 2017
698
Melbourne

The Chinese influence is real, the larger the companies are from China, the more likely they have deep ties to the CCP. Every party involved are to blame.
As an australian, let me say chinese government/independent investment economic influence is real and scary

but the line between economic fear and xenophobia is blurred a mile a wide in the general populace here
holy shit it's used to excuse casual racism that we finally thought we stamped down (not completely eradicated) in the last 20 year (ofc the racists just moved on to muslims after 9/11 when they realised yellow peril was no longer widely viable)
Like fear of the "asian invasion" is what largely spurred the white australia policy
and some of the most major crimes china is performing are against non-chinese asian ethnicities, but those same group get shat on in australia in the backlash against "big scary china" because they get perceived only as "asian"

so just be careful when you try to bring australia into this? theres a very long history of hate that blurs the line even further between xenophobia/reasonable fear here than in the US
 
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Deleted member 15227

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,819
I don't like talking about what's happening in Hong Kong because the situation is more nuanced than people realize.

I hazard that you don't like talking about the subject because any arguments you could hope to offer should be torn apart and laughed at.

Your thoughts and opinions are anything but 'nuanced'. Your government simply cannot be trusted, and your insistence on limiting the discussion to only the incidents in Hong Kong is frankly contemptible. I've also been to Hong Kong and I also have Cantonese and Chinese friends. My wife is Chinese and we all see the CCP for what it really is.

Do you have a 'both sides' argument for the Tiananmen Square Massacre as well?

It's easy to think 'party A is bad, party B is fighting against them, so I'll support party B' - but that's pretty simplistic.

Seriously mate, did you even read and think about what that poster wrote or are you deliberately being ironic?
 
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Xater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,906
Germany
I'm Canadian/ethnically Chinese and I don't think most people are being xenophobic with their criticisms. Though I do think that many of the comments are from people that are lacking in understanding of Chinese history and culture. It's not exactly that the masses are brainwashed, it's way more complicated than that. There's a great post in the NBA thread in OT that explains some aspects of it:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ro...spended-in-china.145209/page-13#post-25281281



That being said, the line between criticizing the government and criticizing the people is a fine one and there are plenty of racists eager to use this situation and an excuse to show their asses. I have heard increasing stories from friends and family about being harassed by random white people on the streets lately and that is pretty concerning.

This post is really good. I can see that in my girlfriend who is terrified of change. She thinks it will destroy the country, similar to what was mentioned in that post.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,877
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
This topic's been on my mind as well. There are plenty of valid reasons to be critical of the Chinese government, but I've seen plenty of instances where it just crossed over into anti-Asian xenophobia. For those old enough to remember the 80s, there were a lot of similar tensions and attitudes towards Japan. People were worried by their technological and manufacturing muscle, economic success, and how Hollywood was adding too much Japanese stuff in their blockbusters. The latter was especially silly in retrospect, since more often than not, the Japanese imagery wasn't exactly flattering. Just think about how many movies, TV shows, and books at the time highlighted the death of the American automotive industry and blamed the Japanese one for it, or used used neon, noodle shops, and Japanese corporate overlords as the aesthetic of future dystoptias. The fears of being "taken over" were justified by being critical of past atrocities and current concerns. While those justifications held merit, as do the contemporary ones for China, it makes me uneasy when you know they're also being used as a smokescreen for bigotry. The concern trolls are hard to tell apart from the folks who mean well.

I'm Canadian/ethnically Chinese and I don't think most people are being xenophobic with their criticisms. Though I do think that many of the comments are from people that are lacking in understanding of Chinese history and culture. It's not exactly that the masses are brainwashed, it's way more complicated than that. There's a great post in the NBA thread in OT that explains some aspects of it:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ro...spended-in-china.145209/page-13#post-25281281



That being said, the line between criticizing the government and criticizing the people is a fine one and there are plenty of racists eager to use this situation and an excuse to show their asses. I have heard increasing stories from friends and family about being harassed by random white people on the streets lately and that is pretty concerning.
That's pretty informative.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
I am ethnically Chinese. Not only that, but I lived in Hong Kong for quite some time. I also have friends and family there, some of whom are on opposite sides.

I don't like talking about what's happening in Hong Kong because the situation is more nuanced than people realize.

Lately I've tried to avoid the subject online and on TV, because a lot of this nuance is missing. Regardless of how you feel about the issue, I see a lot of anti-China posts that feel like they're using Hong Kong as a way to justify their biases/distrust/fear/hate of China. TV stations are even worse -- they portray protestors like the second coming of Jesus, ignoring the messed up things the protestors are doing.

The situation is just as bad on the other end -- Chinese media coverage can portray protestors as filthy criminals backed by westerners, and focusing entirely on the 'bad' protestors who do some messed up stuff.

The thing I would like to point out to a lot of people, especially online, is that you are not there. Even I, who is much more closely tied to Hong Kong than many of those posting, am hesitant to start rallying to the cause of either side, because the picture is not as clear-cut as people like to make it.

There were large protests before this one several years ago. Protestors blocked a major road in Hong Kong for months. Back then it wasn't about an extradition law -- in fact, it was very populist and anti-Chinese/racist in a way not too dissimilar from right-wing populist movements in other countries. You don't see it get mentioned much, especially here in the West where everyone is 'ROOTING FOR HK'. It left a bad taste in my mouth and made me realize HK isn't all people courageously defending democracy.

Westerners on Reddit making posters glorifying protestors when they have never once even set foot in Hong Kong freaks me out the same way Chinese propaganda posters do. Some of them even LOOK like communist propaganda posters of the past -- whether that's intentional or not I don't know. The propaganda goes both ways.

It's easy to say 'well Chinese people are brainwashed'. Looking at some of the people saying things like this, I wonder whether they are brainwashed just as badly. ESPECIALLY when they are so far removed from the place and situation, and possibly have never been to Asia or met a mainland Chinese person.

What I do know is that some people are more racist than they realize, and others are less 'woke' than they think they are. I just think people need to have cooler heads.

What is this nuance we are missing? Instead of dancing around the issue why dont you just provide the information you think everyone is missing? You're doing that thing where someone claims to be vastly more informed on a topic but refuses to divulge any information because reasons.

And the whole "fake woke" angle you are pushing is laughable. The protests were getting coverage in the West when they began, similar to those in Egypt, Libya etc, but the movement didnt gain giant clout here until

A) The CCP used violence against peaceful protest
B) Chinese companies or subsidiaries along with the government actively tried to suppress people's freedom of expression

Please just state what we are all to blind to see because I'm not getting it.
 
OP
OP
CynicalSyndie

CynicalSyndie

Member
Apr 16, 2018
524
Asian Australian here too ...

Exactly the same for us.

OP is warping things, people aren't attacking Chinese people as a whole, even though people like Joe Tsai believe all Chinese people think as a collective on these issues, people are attacking the government.



That's what one of the 5 demands, Universal Suffrage, is for though. People just want to be able to vote in elections that are non-rigged as promised in their basic law.
So you think nobody at all is attacking Chinese people as a whole? That's incredibly naive. I'd also disagree that I'm warping anything.
 
OP
OP
CynicalSyndie

CynicalSyndie

Member
Apr 16, 2018
524
This topic's been on my mind as well. There are plenty of valid reasons to be critical of the Chinese government, but I've seen plenty of instances where it just crossed over into anti-Asian xenophobia. For those old enough to remember the 80s, there were a lot of similar tensions and attitudes towards Japan. People were worried by their technological and manufacturing muscle, economic success, and how Hollywood was adding too much Japanese stuff in their blockbusters. The latter was especially silly in retrospect, since more often than not, the Japanese imagery wasn't exactly flattering. Just think about how many movies, TV shows, and books at the time highlighted the death of the American automotive industry and blamed the Japanese one for it, or used used neon, noodle shops, and Japanese corporate overlords as the aesthetic of future dystoptias. The fears of being "taken over" were justified by being critical of past atrocities and current concerns. While those justifications held merit, as do the contemporary ones for China, it makes me uneasy when you know they're also being used as a smokescreen for bigotry. The concern trolls are hard to tell apart from the folks who mean well.


That's pretty informative.
Yeah. Crighton's Rising Sun was an example of that going into the 90s as well.
 

Ohri-Jin

Banned
Jul 11, 2019
1,129
The Netherlands
This controversy has united both the left and right-wing elements in the gaming community so you're obviously going to see a lot of bad faith racist arguments being disguised as criticism of Blizzard or China from the Gamergate/Trumper crowd. Just make sure to stay on target and keep the criticism pointed at the CCP and the government.
Totally this.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,658
So this topic has morphed into one about whether Hong Kong's protest movement is actually legitimate? What am I reading from some of you...
 

hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
3,858
Chicago, IL
What is this nuance we are missing? Instead of dancing around the issue why dont you just provide the information you think everyone is missing? You're doing that thing where someone claims to be vastly more informed on a topic but refuses to divulge any information because reasons.

And the whole "fake woke" angle you are pushing is laughable. The protests were getting coverage in the West when they began, similar to those in Egypt, Libya etc, but the movement didnt gain giant clout here until

A) The CCP used violence against peaceful protest
B) Chinese companies or subsidiaries along with the government actively tried to suppress people's freedom of expression

Please just state what we are all to blind to see because I'm not getting it.

As far as we know, CCP has not been involved in suppressing the protests. The PLA hasn't left their garrison. Maybe they directed HK police to violently crack down on the protests, bit there's no concrete evidence yet.

I also sense a little misunderstanding about the protests in many posts in this thread. The five demands of the protest, similar to the umbrella movement several years, calls for the Chinese government to keep their promise of universal suffrage. Saying that the protest is to free HK from China completely actually plays into the government propaganda which has painted the protest as a separatist movement since day one.

Of course as a decentralized movement, the protests also attracted shitheads like colonial apologists and xenophos who really just want to beat up mainland tourists. Thus giving CCP propaganda machine plenty of ammunition to work with.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,658
As far as we know, CCP has not been involved in suppressing the protests. The PLA hasn't left their garrison. Maybe they directed HK police to violently crack down on the protests, bit there's no concrete evidence yet.

I also sense a little misunderstanding about the protests in many posts in this thread. The five demands of the protest, similar to the umbrella movement several years, calls for the Chinese government to keep their promise of universal suffrage. Saying that the protest is to free HK from China completely actually plays into the government propaganda which has painted the protest as a separatist movement since day one.

Of course as a decentralized movement, the protests also attracted shitheads like colonial apologists and xenophos who really just want to beat up mainland tourists. Thus giving CCP propaganda machine plenty of ammunition to work with.
The fact remains that the CCP is intent on eroding any resistance to the mainland's governing construct by the time the appointed year comes round. And that the protesters' demands run absolutely counter to that.
 
OP
OP
CynicalSyndie

CynicalSyndie

Member
Apr 16, 2018
524
9
As far as we know, CCP has not been involved in suppressing the protests. The PLA hasn't left their garrison. Maybe they directed HK police to violently crack down on the protests, bit there's no concrete evidence yet.

I also sense a little misunderstanding about the protests in many posts in this thread. The five demands of the protest, similar to the umbrella movement several years, calls for the Chinese government to keep their promise of universal suffrage. Saying that the protest is to free HK from China completely actually plays into the government propaganda which has painted the protest as a separatist movement since day one.

Of course as a decentralized movement, the protests also attracted shitheads like colonial apologists and xenophos who really just want to beat up mainland tourists. Thus giving CCP propaganda machine plenty of ammunition to work with.
I will say I think the mere movement of PLA troops near Hong Kong (From what I've read at least) is easily seen as a threat by the CCP towards the protests.
 

hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
3,858
Chicago, IL
From what I hear and know from my Chinese friends from Tianjin, Beijing, Macao and Hong Kong as well as my Portuguese friends who lived and live there, it's absolutely effective. They have many friends and family members who are absolutely indoctrinated. Of course, they also have many who are not, especially young people.

Well I grew up in Beijing and still have friends and friends who live there. So I'm talking from lived experience. People refrain from actually criticizing the government in public in fear of political repercussions but they are not dumb. When government tells you that there is freedom of speech but the word freedom of speech is censored on social media, people recognize that something is not right. Like I said in earlier posts, people put up with all this bullshit because of the economic growth and stability, which is why the government is strengthening its censorship and propaganda ahead of the incoming economic slowdown.

There's also that Chinese people don't like to criticize their country in front of foreigners, because it feels like we lose face collectively.
 
OP
OP
CynicalSyndie

CynicalSyndie

Member
Apr 16, 2018
524
Well I grew up in Beijing and still have friends and friends who live there. So I'm talking from lived experience. People refrain from actually criticizing the government in public in fear of political repercussions but they are not dumb. When government tells you that there is freedom of speech but the word freedom of speech is censored on social media, people recognize that something is not right. Like I said in earlier posts, people put up with all this bullshit because of the economic growth and stability, which is why the government is strengthening its censorship and propaganda ahead of the incoming economic slowdown.

There's also that Chinese people don't like to criticize their country in front of foreigners, because it feels like we lose face collectively.
Is the whole "losing face" idea really that influential? I'd always thought it was more of an orientalist trope / othering.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,658
Well I grew up in Beijing and still have friends and friends who live there. So I'm talking from lived experience. People refrain from actually criticizing the government in public in fear of political repercussions but they are not dumb. When government tells you that there is freedom of speech but the word freedom of speech is censored on social media, people recognize that something is not right. Like I said in earlier posts, people put up with all this bullshit because of the economic growth and stability, which is why the government is strengthening its censorship and propaganda ahead of the incoming economic slowdown.

There's also that Chinese people don't like to criticize their country in front of foreigners, because it feels like we lose face collectively.
I agree with this. Collectively people know what's up when talking amongst themselves. That being said, information control and communication monitoring makes it difficult to organanize, and allows the more easily susceptible and isolated to be indoctrinated.
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
I really hope we don't get to a point where racism against Chinese people is increasing. That being said, it is common knowledge that government sponsored trolls are on sites like Reddit and Twitter to try and create anger and divisiveness amongst Americans as a political tactic. That should be called out as much as possible.
 

Divvy

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,910
I really hope we don't get to a point where racism against Chinese people is increasing. That being said, it is common knowledge that government sponsored trolls are on sites like Reddit and Twitter to try and create anger and divisiveness amongst Americans as a political tactic. That should be called out as much as possible.
We are though, it's not really an issue here on Era so much but I can definitely understand why the OP would be concerned. Places like Reddit are rife with "I knew a Chinese person, they were a dick, ergo, all Chinese people were dicks!" type posts lately. Meanwhile even in countries like where I live in Canada, getting driveby yelled at to "go back to your own country" by white people is becoming more and more common (although that probably has more to do with the increasing waves of hostility towards immigrants propagated by right-wing populism in general rather than recent events like Blizzard's)
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,658
We are though, it's not really an issue here on Era so much but I can definitely understand why the OP would be concerned. Places like Reddit are rife with "I knew a Chinese person, they were a dick, ergo, all Chinese people were dicks!" type posts lately. Meanwhile even in countries like where I live in Canada, getting driveby yelled at to "go back to your own country" by white people is becoming more and more common (although that probably has more to do with the increasing waves of hostility towards immigrants propagated by right-wing populism in general rather than recent events like Blizzard's)
That happened to me some years ago. I would say globally right wing xenophobia and isolationism is on the rise, probably in response to a lot of things, first and foremost being how much more interconnected the world is now.
 

misterBee

Member
Aug 16, 2018
223
I hazard that you don't like talking about the subject because any arguments you could hope to offer should be torn apart and laughed at.

Your thoughts and opinions are anything but 'nuanced'. Your government simply cannot be trusted, and your insistence on limiting the discussion to only the incidents in Hong Kong is frankly contemptible. I've also been to Hong Kong and I also have Cantonese and Chinese friends. My wife is Chinese and we all see the CCP for what it really is.

Do you have a 'both sides' argument for the Tiananmen Square Massacre as well?



Seriously mate, did you even read and think about what that poster wrote or are you deliberately being ironic?

My government? I'm American, born and raised. I'm simply limiting my discussion to HK because that's what my post was about. People are so damn quick to attack and assume what my views are and know who I am.

I said I had a tough time thinking about which side to support in HK and all of a sudden I must be a mainland Chinese who thinks Tiananmen was ok. This all or nothing mindset is exactly what I'm talking about.

To some people if you're not 100% anti-CCP on every issue you're the enemy. It's no different than the CCP themselves, who call you a foreign-influenced monster if you're not siding 100% with China.

You can also be for/against the HK protests for reasons that aren't idealogical or political, but no let's just make this about whether you're pro Commie/pro West or not.

HK is a real place with real people. The situation requires careful thought -- and yet people online care more about using HK as a vehicle for their anti-CCP/pro-China message than they care about the actual people there.

I think it's best I walk away from this thread now.
 
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Elandyll

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,815
I can never understand why some people can't separate what the government of a country, or even just a few people in that government do, and the actual population, let alone an entire race.

I see it every day, including on Era.
E.g.
Thread "French Judge does this..." , or "Italian politician does that..."

Soon after you get posts going
" Yeah, The French...", or " Definitely, Italians...".

It's just much more gross when it's entire races that are thrown under the bus.
 

Avis

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,224
For what it's worth I've noticed a lot more "Fuck the Chinese government" rather than "Fuck China" today on Reddit so far.
 

The Boat

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,871
Well I grew up in Beijing and still have friends and friends who live there. So I'm talking from lived experience. People refrain from actually criticizing the government in public in fear of political repercussions but they are not dumb. When government tells you that there is freedom of speech but the word freedom of speech is censored on social media, people recognize that something is not right. Like I said in earlier posts, people put up with all this bullshit because of the economic growth and stability, which is why the government is strengthening its censorship and propaganda ahead of the incoming economic slowdown.

There's also that Chinese people don't like to criticize their country in front of foreigners, because it feels like we lose face collectively.
Well, of course, it's a gigantic country with loads of people. Many are intelligent, educated, aware and immune from propaganda, others are not. Having never even been to China, I can only rely on my friends from there and who live there, but from my experience with them and what they tell me, the brainwashing is very effective with a lot of people, namely older people. Of course, there are also people who are afraid to speak out and perceptions of how much the propaganda works are colored by the people you hang out with.

When talking to Chinese friends and from second hand accounts from my friends who live in China, a very common response to many criticisms toward China is "you just don't understand our millennial culture" (as in culture with thousands of years, not about millennials).

Losing face is certainly something Chinese people worry about, that I have noticed, it's something common in countries where nationalism is strong. An example from another country where nationalism is strong, I remember seeing a documentary with Japanese friends about the terrible labor conditions for truck drivers in Japan and they were so damn embarrassed and flustered, they actually got red in the face and tried really hard to spin it positively. They also don't know a thing, or pretend not to, about WW2.

Like I said before, this isn't exclusive to China or Asian countries (since I mentioned Japan), the USA also has its own brand of brainwashing. My country, Portugal, is also a good example as we are taught (well, at least I was, I don't know what kids are taught today) about about our age of discovery and conquest in a very white washed manner. While I was taught about slavery and invasions, everything was said in a way that was more focused in instilling pride in our country's past than realizing on the barbaric things that were done. This historical revisionism is very easily seen whenever someone brings up that we did some horrible shit and rethink the way we look at the days when Portugal had a big empire. Thankfully, we talk very bluntly and regularly about our dictatorship days, so at least there's that.
 
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Einherjer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,924
Germany

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
What does that have to do with anything? It's not called Hong Kong newspaper now is it?

Your seem to be under the impression that its skew comes from being a mainland Chinese publication. There are concerns over the CCP's influence over the paper nowadays, but it was established under British-ruled Hong Kong, and many of its articles don't paint mainland China in a positive light.
 

boy power

Banned
Jul 29, 2019
213
Your seem to be under the impression that its skew comes from being a mainland Chinese publication. There are concerns over the CCP's influence over the paper nowadays, but it was established under British-ruled Hong Kong, and many of its articles don't paint mainland China in a positive light.
'' According to a Quartz article dated 2017, they state that after being acquired by Alibaba Group, SCMP's narrative became more pro-China. The article also quotes Joseph Tsai, Alibaba's co-founder and vice chairman, as saying "We wanted to tell the biggest story of our lifetime, which is China." According to the NY Times, the new mission of SCMP is "improving China's image overseas and combating what it sees as anti-Chinese bias in the foreign media." Reuters points out that Jack Ma, the head of Alibaba Group Holding Ltd is a Communist Party member. ''

And you're expecting me to believe what they write about Hong Kong? And even if everything about the article was factual, it wouldn't influence how I feel about what is happening in Hong Kong.
 

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
'' According to a Quartz article dated 2017, they state that after being acquired by Alibaba Group, SCMP's narrative became more pro-China. The article also quotes Joseph Tsai, Alibaba's co-founder and vice chairman, as saying "We wanted to tell the biggest story of our lifetime, which is China." According to the NY Times, the new mission of SCMP is "improving China's image overseas and combating what it sees as anti-Chinese bias in the foreign media." Reuters points out that Jack Ma, the head of Alibaba Group Holding Ltd is a Communist Party member. ''

And you're expecting me to believe what they write about Hong Kong? And even if everything about the article was factual, it wouldn't influence how I feel about what is happening in Hong Kong.

Which is why I said that there's concerns over the CCP's influence. I'm not here to support that article, but get your facts straight.
 

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
He appears to have them fairly in order from the quote...

Portraying the paper as a mainland publication hides the truth of the situation: there exist many Hong Kongers who are complicit. People keep on forgetting that the protestors are just as angry at their own leaders as they are with the CCP. The situation keeps on getting oversimplified. It's more than just the mainland pressing the boot into the pure, innocent paradise of Hong Kong, it's Hong Kong institutions failing the populace.
 
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Deleted member 13560

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,087
That 100 Year Plan is coming along pretty nicely for the CCP. You have corporations like the NBA and Activision Blizzard apologizing to them. You have consumers and other businesses getting upset over tariffs. You have organ harvesting from prisoners and people of different belief systems.

It's amazing that what they started 70 years ago seems to have already rooted itself firmly in so many countries. They are on the verge of world domination without having to go to war with any nations. It's damn impressive and frightening. It looks like they'll hit their mark well before 2049.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,658
Portraying the paper as a mainland publication hides the truth of the situation: there exist many Hong Kongers who are complicit. People keep on forgetting that the protestors are just as angry at their own leaders as they are with the CCP. The situation keeps on getting oversimplified. It's more than just the mainland pressing the boot into the pure, innocent paradise of Hong Kong, it's Hong Kong institutions failing the populace.
I'm aware. But that doesn't negate the turn in focus for that source, and it's beyond mere concerns if it's documented to have declared its support for the mainland going forward.

I'm honestly confused why you would think what you said validates SCMP as a credible source.
 
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hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
3,858
Chicago, IL
'' According to a Quartz article dated 2017, they state that after being acquired by Alibaba Group, SCMP's narrative became more pro-China. The article also quotes Joseph Tsai, Alibaba's co-founder and vice chairman, as saying "We wanted to tell the biggest story of our lifetime, which is China." According to the NY Times, the new mission of SCMP is "improving China's image overseas and combating what it sees as anti-Chinese bias in the foreign media." Reuters points out that Jack Ma, the head of Alibaba Group Holding Ltd is a Communist Party member. ''

And you're expecting me to believe what they write about Hong Kong? And even if everything about the article was factual, it wouldn't influence how I feel about what is happening in Hong Kong.

If ownership of the publication matters that much, then there are very few newspapers that you can trust about anything. Might as well just stop reading news.

Nice pro chinese propaganda
From the same author's article history:

Sounds like she doesn't exactly give a fuck about personal freedom in this exact context.

That's not what the article is about though. The reason I linked the article is because that violence towards mainlanders by the protesters are mostly downplayed in the coverage by western publications.

SCMP being owned by Alibaba doesn't change the fact that a New Yorker staff writer was stopped on the street by a group for speaking Mandarin. Or that a JPMorgan employee was punched in the face right outside the office for saying "we are all Chinese" in Mandarin. And there two incidents are only more widely reported because both work for US companies.




But I guess we are incapable of having a nuanced discussion here about various different factions within the decentralized protest. The protest has to be treated as a whole and any negative coverage can only be pro-china propaganda.
 
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hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
3,858
Chicago, IL
I'm aware. But that doesn't negate the turn in focus for that source, and it's beyond mere concerns if it's documented to have declared its support for the mainland going forward.

I'm honestly confused why you would think what you said validates SCMP as a credible source.

It's credible because there are videos of all the incidents mentioned in the article on Twitter and YouTube. Because it's not that hard to find evidence of xenophobia in Hong Kong, only willfully ignored.
 

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
I'm aware. But that doesn't negate the turn in focus for that source, and it's beyond mere concerns if it's documented to have declared its support for the mainland going forward.

I'm honestly confused why you would think what you said validates SCMP as a credible source.

I never said it was a credible source.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,658
It's credible because there are videos of all the incidents mentioned in the article on Twitter and YouTube. Because it's not that hard to find evidence of xenophobia in Hong Kong, only willfully ignored.
Bad elements of a protest (aka opportunists who use it to cause chaos) don't define the protest. I saw this same rhetoric with BLM. Unless you mean to say those protesting peacefully are one and the same with the rioters and should be dealt with as such, which wouldn't be too far off from how people try to discredit protest movements elsewhere in the world, particularly how protests are characterized by right wing media in the US.

I never said it was a credible source.
Then what was the intention of responding to that poster with that...