Yoshinori Kitase on number of games in FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE series: "We don't know ourselves"

Space Lion

Member
May 24, 2019
221
I mean, you're comparing a remake of a 20 year old game to something current and modern like The Witcher 3 and RDR2. Does that not seem ridiculous to anyone else?

Honestly, they could've ratcheted down the production value a couple of notches and still beaten the shit out of every single JRPG on the market. Tales has been shit for a decade and almost every other major JRPG franchise is dead and gone.

Trying to compete with games like RDR2 is what's contributing to this madness.
Yeah I don't fucking get it. Why would you try to compete with RDR2 with a 20 year old game? It's bananas to me.
How is this not a problem? Who on Earth could possibly green light something like that?
 
Oct 27, 2017
460
Maybe it's naive but I'm not as worried as everyone here seems to be. I'm anticipating three, I'm sure Square has idea but hasn't finalized plans, but who knows
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,151
Oh good, I'm getting the whole story then? I get to meet JENOVA, learn about Zack and his connection to Cloud, and stop Meteor from destroying Gaia?

Phew, I was worried there for a second.
Not having the whole FF7 story doesn't mean it's not a complete game. Idk who came up with that but that's bad logic lmao.
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,321
Well SE knows that FF7 is the most popular RPG they ever created and are now treating it as such.
This is no longer just a “Remake” its getting the treatment of a new “mainline” ff game.

This is amazing and FF7 will break every record for SE.

My only concern is that they will cut shit out, if they don’t do that then I’m all for this crazy large remake project.
If they cut and remove stuff like open world map exploration, then I’ll be pissed and this scale was a mistake.

Time will tell. But always aim for the best or don’t bother imo.
Yup, if they manage to not cut anything (and in addition they've already confirmed they're fleshing things out further) then this is going to be amazing to experience as a fans of the game. The footage last night both battle and story was like what a lot of fans have dreamed about.

I don't give a damn. The fact they're even remaking this game is great for me so whether it's 2 discs or even 10 shit, I'm in for the ride.
This right here. I'm all-in.
 
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Space Lion

Member
May 24, 2019
221
Can't wait for Rockstar to remake GTAIII for the 20th anniversary and it takes 6 years because they want to make it as good as GTAVI.

lmao

 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,352
Not having the whole FF7 story doesn't mean it's not a complete game. Idk who came up with that but that's bad logic lmao.
The big problem is that so little of what makes VII special is in the prologue of the game. The only notable things that happen in Midgar are A) the crossdressing scene and B) the Sephiroth slasher film scene in Shinra Tower Jail.

Everything else of note in the game happens after you leave. Everything.
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
2,328
Again this is on Square. TBH, they should have remade FFVII during the ps2 days. Remakes of ps1 games were en vogue then already, with REmake and MGS: Twin Snakes happening. Then they let this build up for a decade till peoples expectations were beyond ridiculous. I also don't get the big deal. Mana 3 was revealed today and it didn't look like it got the red carpet treatment and its built up a lot of hype. Why are SE so attached to this game? Compilation of FFVII, now needing to go all out for a remake. It's preposterous to me. Even Dragon Quest, isn't like that and it's massive in Japan. When they remake, they upgrade the graphics and just make it better, but why the need for the pagaentry? Why the need for the over ambition? Why the need for the bloated expectations?

It's quite ridiculous and nothing can convince me that if FFVII remake were revealed, looked like FFXII, and released by now, it would be considered a modern classic.
Dragon Quest is a series historically designed around being a lot less visually stunning and sticking to the roots of what made it popular on the Famicom/NES. DQ7, the Dragon Quest game that came out the same generation as FF7, basically looked like a glorified Sega CD game. Meanwhile FF7 was considered visually stunning at launch and its visuals/presentation/production values played heavily into its marketing at launch. You can get away with remaking DQ7 on the 3DS because in doing so, you're not losing what played a part of the game's appeal at launch. You can't do the same for FF7.

You're also kidding yourself if you think an SD3 remake is representative of how an FF7 remake would be received. The game is really niche and a remake of that caliber is way more than anyone expected. Half of that game's hype is built around the fact that it never got released in the US and has literal decades worth of emulation/import enthusiasts hyping it up as some kind of underrated SNES holy grail, with many people not even having the opportunity to play it.
 

Crazy Izanagi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,531
I don't care myself as a massive FF7 fanboy but hopefully when Part 1 comes out it might make people feel better about this.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,706
They made three parts to FFXIII, lol, this is definitely going three parts, if not more.

They are going to make a fortune off this project.
 

Dogui

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,331
DQ doesn't recycle NPC's. They're the same NPC designs. You mention "recycling npcs and music" while ignoring that what we're talking about is your original claim: that rpgs with the scope of ps1 jrpgs are impossible. Your claim was thoroughly beaten and proven wrong. You are now using non-gameplay elements as an argument.

Nothing you've said still doesn't change the fact that FFXII has a far bigger world than FFVII. Nor does it change the nature of the fact that DQVIII has a massive world, a full scale world map, and this.


Timestamp 6:56
Lol how the hell you can miss the point so much.

Nothing that you said beat any of my arguments. The simply idea of comparing FFXII and DQVIII to 8th gen actual big worlds is just silly.

I didn't said all PS1 RPGs, i said most. I'm pretty sure a Parasite Eve or a Vagrant Story could be remade in AAA nowadays standards in one game, but it would be completely impossible for a Suikoden or Breath of Fire. Or any games set in a miniature world map ftm.

Dunno if you understand that notion, but most of the budget of a videogame comes from not-gameplay stuff. I insist in talking about asset development because it's one of the most expensive works in a modern game compared with older ones. I can make an entire 16 bit town on rpg maker, alone, in 2 hours. How many time and people i would need to create the same town, converted to 3D, in a level of detail that atleast uses the potential of the PS4 hardware?

FFXII is not simply "bigger" than FFVII. It's bigger in terms of overall content, the dungeons are far longer, the towns have far more stuff going on. It's obvious, the same way The Witcher 3 is a lot bigger than FFXII, again, in terms of content.

Most dungeons in FFVII were like 3/4 pre rendered screens, and most towns barely had any people. The representation of FFVII's world doesn't even try to be realistic. That's why it was feasible to make a double digit towns with a double digit dungeons in a single game. Because of that, in a imaginative sense, assuming that a city like Junon would be as big as Rabanastre, the entire world of FFVII is far bigger than FFXII's region. Which means doing a FFVII with FFXII scope - PS2 tier graphics, bigger cities with more people, longer dungeons - would make it atleast 5 times bigger than the actual FFXII. This on a PS2 scale, which is kids play compared with FFVII Remake's scope.
 

SunKing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
367
It really is bizarre that a section that should take 10-12 hours maximum in the PS1 original is being stretched out to full sized RPG length (on 2 blu-ray discs!). Back when I used to replay this game, I was always antsy to get out of Midgar. It's only the introductory chapter and not where most of my favourite moments in the game were. There is definitely going to be extreme padding in this first part of the Remake; there's no other way to explain it.
 
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Ada

Member
Nov 28, 2017
1,395
How could they not know when the games plot is already set? If they were making a new game from scratch I could understand this but they are remaking a game.
 

lunatique

Member
Oct 25, 2017
337
Wasn't it obvious since the start?

With this the huge world of FFVII with this kind of production value, it's impossible to expect everything fit in just 1-3 games. Midgar is only like 10% part of the game, and that's all we're getting next year.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,706
I'm be pretty stunned if the 1st part doesn't hit 10+ million copies, especially if after the PS4 exclusivity window it comes out on XBox/Stadia/xCloud, maybe even a Switch version (Switch 2) with the real time cut scenes/story bits being video instead of rendered.
 

Space Lion

Member
May 24, 2019
221
Dragon Quest is a series historically designed around being a lot less visually stunning and sticking to the roots of what made it popular on the Famicom/NES. DQ7, the Dragon Quest game that came out the same generation as FF7, basically looked like a glorified Sega CD game. Meanwhile FF7 was considered visually stunning at launch and its visuals/presentation/production values played heavily into its marketing at launch. You can get away with remaking DQ7 on the 3DS because in doing so, you're not losing what played a part of the game's appeal at launch. You can't do the same for FF7.

You're also kidding yourself if you think an SD3 remake is representative of how an FF7 remake would be received. The game is really niche and a remake of that caliber is way more than anyone expected. Half of that game's hype is built around the fact that it never got released in the US and has literal decades worth of emulation/import enthusiasts hyping it up as some kind of underrated SNES holy grail, with many people not even having the opportunity to play it.
DQ games had pretty good graphics before VII. VII was an exception. And FF wasn't a graphic whore game until VII.

And yes, people would have been fine. Look at the reception for FFVIII Remaster. Not a remake, but still a positive reception, and it'll sell well. Won't sell 10 million but there's no guarantee FFVII remake will either.

Are you telling me that if FFVIIR looked like this:



Fully voice acted. No random encounters.

People wouldn't have been satisfied and hyped? I think they would have.

A lot of people say that FFVII is a popular property. If so, it would sell well no matter what. If that's the case, why the need for the pagaentry? Why the need for the excess?
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,706
That will be around 2028, given that Kitase said that it will probably take about as long to make each part as it did to make this one and assuming that there will be 3 parts total - that's four years for the next 2 parts each...

Simply wonderful.
Wait ... he still that? Dude is on crack. I was thinking maybe 2-3 year gaps between part 1 - part 2 - part 3.

4 years in between segments would be insane.
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,151
It's not even a complete game... you don't even get the majority of your team until after you leave Midgar. Literally more than half the playable cast!
So break this down for me.

FFXV takes 92hrs to complete everything in it according to howlongtobeat.com. FF7R has graphics surpassing XV's and the scope and density of Midgar surpasses it too, the story's deeper as well. Say the number of missions and side-missions are higher. Gameplay seems to be better too. You know, the works.

Just because we don't see what happens after Midgar you're going to tell me the game isn't complete? Just because we don't see after even though it has that much? Are you really going to say "no this game isn't complete" if it gives you that much when we can literally point to other FF games that don't give you that much?

Because if that's the case then that's another discussion we need to talk about.

The big problem is that so little of what makes VII special is in the prologue of the game. The only notable things that happen in Midgar are A) the crossdressing scene and B) the Sephiroth slasher film scene in Shinra Tower Jail.

Everything else of note in the game happens after you leave. Everything.
Nah, I disagree with that but regardless of that opinion there's a lot they can put in related to forming Avalanche, Cloud and Tifa's relationship (same with Aeris), we can see the rest of the sectors in full (like they stated in one of the interviews back in 2016), there's a lot they can do here given the space. Yeah things happen after they leave Midgar but there's enough room and space for us to fill in especially given what it is.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,352
Wait ... he still that? Dude is on crack. I was thinking maybe 2-3 year gaps between part 1 - part 2 - part 3.

4 years in between segments would be insane.
And people wonder why I keep calling them incompetent. They never should've agreed to do this project if they couldn't finish it in a reasonable amount of time.
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,959
The big problem is that so little of what makes VII special is in the prologue of the game. The only notable things that happen in Midgar are A) the crossdressing scene and B) the Sephiroth slasher film scene in Shinra Tower Jail.

Everything else of note in the game happens after you leave. Everything.
the pillar explosion was impactful, but i understand kitase and nomura why they want to expand midgar, its really the most interesting place and with most potential. Midgar is what makes final fantasy vii fits the cyberpunk genre, its where most of political aspects of the game are worked, its where you have the second biggest enemy of the party and the one with the biggest influence in the world and story, everything is directed linked to shinra, soldier, turks, sephiroth, avalanche, cosmo canyon, and all the party members etc. Midgar is basically the world capital its a very interesting place.

about the story of the original i share your fear how they will work the remaining parts since that's only 1/10 of the original game story, but i agree with them that midgar its the area with the most story potential to expansion.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,334
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
This is a very Square Enix thing to do. Going in with a rough idea what they want to do, and losing control of the scope of the project because of ambition. They know their destination, and are probably hard at work to build the individual pieces, but how they'll all fit together is going something they'll figure out as they get to it.

I understand that it might be hard to determine the scale of this project though, since they're expanding the 6~ish hour Midgar section into a complete game. Who knows what the rest of this game is going to go through. Maybe they'll reign it in a bit more once they get a better grasp of how these other parts will sell. If there's a downward trend, scaling down feels inevitable. That's pretty likely to me, since the story will be a direct continuation each part. I doubt many people who didn't finish Part 1 or 2 will be hungry for a Part 3.
 

Ayirek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,341
Missoula
That will be around 2028, given that Kitase said that it will probably take about as long to make each part as it did to make this one and assuming that there will be 3 parts total - that's four years for the next 2 parts each...

Simply wonderful.
You do know development was scrapped and restarted in 2017 right? And with gameplay and assets in place already, it'll be half that time at the longest. What a silly post.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,352
Nah, I disagree with that but regardless of that opinion there's a lot they can put in related to forming Avalanche, Cloud and Tifa's relationship (same with Aeris), we can see the rest of the sectors in full (like they stated in one of the interviews back in 2016), there's a lot they can do here given the space. Yeah things happen after they leave Midgar but there's enough room and space for us to fill in especially given what it is.
Being stuck with a tiny, four-member party for an entire game is fucking disappointing. No Red XIII, no Vincent, no Cid. No Chocobo racing. No Chocobo breeding. No minigames. No Battle Arena. No vehicles. No exploration. No party customization.

You do know development was scrapped and restarted in 2017 right? And with gameplay and assets in place already, it'll be half that time at the longest. What a silly post.
Midgar assets are worthless in building the game world, because nowhere else on Gaia has the same kind of visual or architectural style outside of the Mt. Nibel reactor.

Nothing they've done here will be even remotely useful in doing the rest of the game, which is why spending all this time and money on Midgar was a bad idea.
 
Oct 26, 2017
348
Unlike previous FF that hadnt been written or had a story set in place, the projects could turn into years and years, this time there is already a game completed that they are just recreating and adding new stuff to.

I have no doubt that they will finish it at one point.

Hopefully they just add as much as they can to enrich the world even more and recreate it all in glorious PS4 graphics.
Cant wait!
 

Canas Renvall

Member
Mar 4, 2018
507
FFXV takes 92hrs to complete everything in it according to howlongtobeat.com. FF7R has graphics surpassing XV's and the scope and density of Midgar surpasses it too, the story's deeper as well. Say the number of missions and side-missions are higher. Gameplay seems to be better too. You know, the works.

Just because we don't see what happens after Midgar you're going to tell me the game isn't complete? Just because we don't see after even though it has that much? Are you really going to say "no this game isn't complete" if it gives you that much when we can literally point to other FF games that don't give you that much?

Because if that's the case then that's another discussion we need to talk about.
Can I play as Cid, Vincent, Yuffie, Cait Sith, can I fuck around in the Golden Saucer, can I roam the world, can I breed chocobos, can I even know the actual fucking goal of this story through only Midgar?

I could go on but I'll stop myself. No. The answer is no.
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
2,328
DQ games had pretty good graphics before VII. VII was an exception. And FF wasn't a graphic whore game until VII.

And yes, people would have been fine. Look at the reception for FFVIII Remaster. Not a remake, but still a positive reception, and it'll sell well. Won't sell 10 million but there's no guarantee FFVII remake will either.

Are you telling me that if FFVIIR looked like this:



Fully voice acted. No random encounters.

People wouldn't have been satisfied and hyped? I think they would have.

A lot of people say that FFVII is a popular property. If so, it would sell well no matter what. If that's the case, why the need for the pagaentry? Why the need for the excess?
The thing is Square's equivalent for the FF8 rerelease is the version of FF7 they've already rereleased on several different platforms. It would have been cool if that version of the game was more than just basically the PC version and got a new coat of paint, but I doubt that happening would have helped sales a lot compared to just a flat rerelease.

And yes, I absolutely think people would be mad if FF7 Remake on PS4 looked like that gif. I don't really know what else to tell you here man so we're probably going to have to agree to disagree. If the game looked like that as an early PS3 game then people would probably be fairly happy (though initially a little disappointed), and people would be ecstatic if it were actually a PS2 game. But now? No chance in hell. If it looked better than that, like Trials of Mana-level, the blowback would be a fair bit more minuscule. Financially maybe what FF7R's cost them isn't really worth the initial good will it got from fans, but that's their fault for mismanagement.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,706
They know they stand to make more money doing the episodic thing, I don't think it's a lack of planning specifically.

Part I is going to sell more than 10-12 million copies, and part 2/3 over 8 mill each I think. Part I will pay for Part II + III's budget and then some, and the rest will be a money mountain for SE.
 

Apocrypha

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,989
They know they stand to make more money doing the episodic thing, I don't think it's a lack of planning specifically.

Part I is going to sell more than 10-12 million copies, and part 2/3 over 8 mill each I think. Part I will pay for Part II + III's budget and then some, and the rest will be a money mountain for SE.
A good metric is slash it by half for each sequel part as your lower bound.
 

Kuma Bear

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,248
Japan
Okay this really is a case of "hold onto your butts" because I can already see this will be a wild ride with no end in site.
 

Kaz Mk II

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,181
I would hope they end it at 3 parts.

These games are already going to take a long time to come out, and it would be kind of weird to have Final Fantasy XVI being advertized alongside a multi plart remake of a game that isn't complete yet. Unless we think there arent going to announce/reveal XVI until they're done with VII, which I think would be dumb considering we probably wont even get a part 3 until like 2024.\

Also it'll run into the FF sequel problem of selling worse each time. X/X2, the XIII trilogy. If they're smart they wont let this get too out of hand.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,706
My guess is maybe something like this

Mar. 2020 - Part I
Mar. 2021 - Part I for XBox, Stadia, (gulp) Switch (?)
Nov. 2022 - Part II (all platforms)
Summer 2025 - Part III (all platforms)
 

Space Lion

Member
May 24, 2019
221
The thing is Square's equivalent for the FF8 rerelease is the version of FF7 they've already rereleased on several different platforms. It would have been cool if that version of the game was more than just basically the PC version and got a new coat of paint, but I doubt that happening would have helped sales a lot compared to just a flat rerelease.

And yes, I absolutely think people would be mad if FF7 Remake on PS4 looked like that gif. I don't really know what else to tell you here man so we're probably going to have to agree to disagree. If the game looked like that as an early PS3 game then people would probably be fairly happy (though initially a little disappointed), and people would be ecstatic if it were actually a PS2 game. But now? No chance in hell. If it looked better than that, like Trials of Mana-level, the blowback would be a fair bit more minuscule. Financially maybe what FF7R's cost them isn't really worth the initial good will it got from fans, but that's their fault for mismanagement.
Either way, Trials of Mana budget or FFXII? I think the scale should be smaller. And I think people would be fine if it looks like Mana.
 

CortexVortex

Member
Oct 30, 2017
784
Can I play as Cid, Vincent, Yuffie, Cait Sith, can I fuck around in the Golden Saucer, can I roam the world, can I breed chocobos, can I even know the actual fucking goal of this story through only Midgar?

I could go on but I'll stop myself. No. The answer is no.
It’s a full game and the first part of the FFVIIR franchise.
This is not just a remake of a game, it’s a re-imagining of its world. The scope of this project is nuts.

Of course I’d like to spend dozens of hours in the golden saucer next year already but why don’t we wait and see what the new Midgar has in store for us?
Maybe there are lots of mini games and some of the best side quests in the entire franchise, who knows.
 

Mikebison

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,216
The idea that Square would ‘lower the graphics’ a little to reduce to scope is baffling. Literally every single FF game, they’ve been proud of the fact that they’ve pushed graphics and made one of the best looking games at that time. Why would FF7R be any different?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,352
It’s a full game and the first part of the FFVIIR franchise.
This is not just a remake of a game, it’s a re-imagining of its world. The scope of this project is nuts.

Of course I’d like to spend dozens of hours in the golden saucer next year already but why don’t we wait and see what the new Midgar has in store for us?
Maybe there are lots of mini games and some of the best side quests in the entire franchise, who knows.
The problem with splitting a game like this up is that the ceiling is pretty low for the kinds of cool shit you can get. You're not gonna sidequest and get any ultimate weapons because there'll be nowhere to go. You're not gonna be able to get any crazy cool summons or super-materia because this is the prologue and there's still at least two more full games of this shit before the end and they have to scale things up as the games progress.

It's just such a mess. "Oh boy, I did all these sidequests and I got a Hardedge!" Joy.
 

SunKing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
367
These games are already going to take a long time to come out, and it would be kind of weird to have Final Fantasy XVI being advertized alongside a multi plart remake of a game that isn't complete yet. Unless we think there arent going to announce/reveal XVI until they're done with VII, which I think would be dumb considering we probably wont even get a part 3 until like 2024.
I think everyone needs to adjust how they view this game now. It's an on-going sub-series until they release the last installment. FFXIV is also an on-going game currently, and XV has already been released during its lifetime. VIIR is now in similar territory.
 

Kain

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,302
This looks to me like S-E figured out this thing is going to make them tons of money. Why make money once when you can make it multiple times? Money, simple as that.
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,151
Being stuck with a tiny, four-member party for an entire game is fucking disappointing. No Red XIII, no Vincent, no Cid. No Chocobo racing. No Chocobo breeding. No minigames. No Battle Arena. No vehicles. No exploration. No party customization.
All the stuff underlined isn't out of the realm of possibility. Since they're fleshing Midgar out we can at least see some of those things. You're not counting for a lot of this stuff. Like a place like Midgar has to have a fight club. We've seen them on vehicles in the game who's to say they won't expand that, mini-games who knows but either way there's a lot they can do. The fact they said they'll show us the other sectors and didn't explain what we'll see is big.

Can I play as Cid, Vincent, Yuffie, Cait Sith, can I fuck around in the Golden Saucer, can I roam the world, can I breed chocobos, can I even know the actual fucking goal of this story?

I could go on but I'll stop myself. No. The answer is no.
Man, even if they gave you a 100hr rpg with great graphics, a lot of missions/side-missions, gameplay and a deeper story, say if the sum of the game was above any other AAA games these past 5 years you'd still say it's not complete given you can't do anything beyond Midgar in the original OG FF7. If that's the case then as soon as they made this game's announcement in late 2015 and said it would be multiple episodes to finish there's really nothing they could do to please you. Going by your logic you'd take a complete game for 45 bucks that lasts maybe 10 hours rather than an "uncompleted" game that gives you 100 hours.

If that's your idea of a "complete game" then shit, I got nothing else to say. That sounds crazy.
 

Space Lion

Member
May 24, 2019
221
The idea that Square would ‘lower the graphics’ a little to reduce to scope is baffling. Literally every single FF game, they’ve been proud of the fact that they’ve pushed graphics and made one of the best looking games at that time. Why would FF7R be any different?
Have you played FFIII ds or IV ds? FFI-VI Advance? What are your thoughts on those?