Yoshinori Ono (Capcom) talks about the limited audience of fighting games, what MvC's ambitions were

Discussion in 'Video Games' started by Nirolak, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. Nirolak

    Nirolak Member Original Poster

    Capcom put up an interview with themselves on their investor page explaining why games like Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite might not sell a lot of copies, along with their ambitions for the title. Capcom did not inquire with him as to why other fighting games sell more, or the mobile fighting scene that sometimes sees 40+ million downloads.

  2. Platy

    Platy Member

    CORE fighting games for PRO market is the closest of the closest markets.

    They should stop focusing on EVO first and everyone else second
  3. DomsPlaying

    DomsPlaying Member

  4. Vlaphor

    Vlaphor Member

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want to grow the fighting game market, then you should definitely focus on single player content. MK9 should be the bare minimum these days for how much single player content a fighting game has. Not everyone wants to compete against other pros online.
  5. Zero-ELEC

    Zero-ELEC Member

    and gave them nothing to do with these methods of enjoyment
  6. incogneato

    incogneato Self Requested Ban Member

    I’m not sure why a fighting game developer can’t target the casual market and the hardcore market simultaneously? It worked for Persona 4 Arena, Injustice, and Mortal Kombat.
  7. StallionDan

    StallionDan Member

    Put some more SP content and unlock progression in your games then.
  8. Katsubento

    Katsubento Member

    Well, MvCI was kind of doomed from the beginning with the roster which we know was Marvel. It's too bad as the game plays wonderfully.

    SFV was a bust because of no arcade mode. That's all it really needed.

    I just hope they learned (SFV AE seems to rectify the SFV complaints). Marvel is an odd one since it has casual appeal characters but hardcore gameplay.
  9. Garlador

    Garlador Member

    Any day now...
  10. #10
    Are they considering hosting pay per view events?
  11. Deft Beck

    Deft Beck Member

    You run the risk of being stuck in the middle; not accessible enough for newbies and not deep enough to keep enthusiasts' attention.
  12. TheEnd

    TheEnd Member

    Why can't they admit that bad art direction, less than stellar visuals (being generous here with the terms I'm using) and disappointing roster were the reason the game tanked?

    It's not rocket science, Capcom. I hope that whatever fighting game they're working on next is as good as SFV visually.
  13. Nirolak

    Nirolak Member Original Poster

    Well, so far it seems to have been working out better for developers though. Mortal Kombat and Injustice are 5+ million unit series, as is For Honor.

    That's before we even get to something like Smash Bros.

    RROCKMAN Member

    Im pretty sure those all have expansive story modes lol. I think they tried that with MVCI, but it falls flat. I think it took itself waaay too seriously if you asked me.

    True, Smash has found the balance and has Star power to back it up.
  15. Platy

    Platy Member

    No it didn't worked for Persona 4 Arena =P

    I mean it sold a lot for a fighting game based on a weird jrpg but I would not say it got the casual market
  16. TwoCoins

    TwoCoins Member

    I don't believe ONO had nothing to do with MvCI. He seems to be at every reveal, tweeting himself at marvel offices, etc....And everything he's touches seems to turn to crap. Love his goofy antics or what have you, the man imo lacks vision and should let someone else handle fighting games for awhile.
  17. Cinemikel

    Cinemikel Banned Member

    Problem is that the FGC has been known to not be very accepting of new things outside of already pre-established gameplay. If it dares to play any different, I don't like it. This prevents growth in the genre for new ideas and audiences and increases stagnation. They're their own worst enemy imo.
  18. Deft Beck

    Deft Beck Member

    Mortal Kombat and Injustice both contain characters who are recognizable and nameable by casual Western players; Injustice even more so because of how it is focused on superheroes.

    That's the primary reason for their success.
  19. #19
    Add Tekken to the mix. I think what Capcom is missing is that core fans are enticed by changes to the core fighting system and balance, while more casual or new fans will be enticed by single player content (which will help them learn the mechanics as is a much lower barrier of entry to doing so than online, and is more entertaining than arcade modes). Capcom's been skimping on single player content hardcore, which is especially absurd for a game like MvC as crossover titles are perfect for cool story modes and cutscenes
  20. Nirolak

    Nirolak Member Original Poster

    He runs the Capcom business division that releases fighting games.
  21. Neoxon

    Neoxon Community Resettler Member

    Sounds like they're gonna continue supporting MvCI mainly due to the eSports side of things, which is good to hear if that is the case.
  22. PSqueak

    PSqueak Member

    I think fighting games need in general to remind people their nature as party games, im nowhere near competitive skill, yet some of my fondest memories is playing fighting games with friends passing around the controller.

    "Party" is not a bad word, and you don't need to be smash bros to be a party fighting game.
  23. Nirolak

    Nirolak Member Original Poster

    Do you feel Marvel vs. Capcom doesn't?
  24. Zero-ELEC

    Zero-ELEC Member

    Nobody knows who Captain America or Spider-Man even are!
  25. Deft Beck

    Deft Beck Member

    I don't think that beyond the Marvel side many random people could name a Capcom character.
  26. gundamkyoukai

    gundamkyoukai Member

    The need more SP content to catch the causal market .
    Look at MK and Injustice.
    Capcom SP content has been half ass this whole gen when it comes to fighting games while everyone else has way more.
    I mean for certain SFV could have been bigger than what is right now.
  27. Neoxon

    Neoxon Community Resettler Member

    I'm also curious about how they'll continue to expand the CPT going forward. Were there any interviews pertaining to that, Nirolak?
  28. TwoCoins

    TwoCoins Member

    He's also the executive producer and as far i'm concerned, a bad product starts off from the top. He's the guy who pushes ez combos, autoblock gems, ez input, more fan service costumes, etc. He want's to make a games for casuals by trying to make the game play itself...but doesn't invest in better tutorials, more interesting story or single player and arcade mode.

    RROCKMAN Member

    Well, they are missing a large faction of Marvel Characters in this entry. So I guess? The MCU move was terrible on Marvel's part.
  30. TheEnd

    TheEnd Member

    I wonder how much do they earn from e-sports? People swore that SFV wouldn't get past season 1 and here we are in 2017 with season 3 is right around the corner, along with an overhaul re-release/free update, and a shit ton of DLC stages and costumes despite the fact that the game hasn't met its sales target yet.
  31. David___

    David___ Member

    You run the risk of making a game neither side likes. IE its -still- too hard for the casual market to care while also being too easy and lacking in depth for the people who put years into playing a game
  32. #32
    Wouldn’t that be the reason why they’d lead he marketing campaign with Ryu and Megaman X?
  33. RedSwirl

    RedSwirl Member

    From what I heard Dragon Ball is aiming to be a big more accessible, at least compared to other ArcSys games, which is smart considering the potential mass market appeal of that game.

    Though, I think at some point there needs to be a big attempt at an F2P fighter on PC. Something that really goes after the LoL and DOTA model.

    It's also arguable though that those games, and Overwatch, already contain what a lot of the mainstream audience enjoyed about fighting games in the first place -- the characters.
  34. TheEnd

    TheEnd Member

    Killer Instinct did that.
  35. Nirolak

    Nirolak Member Original Poster

  36. Neoxon

    Neoxon Community Resettler Member

    I guess you can thank good DLC sales in terms of attach rate for that.
  37. #37
    Injustice vs MvC:I are basically a tie. I don't think anyone can make the argument whether people are more familiar with Marvel vs DC, although it probably leans to Marvel if anything.
    As far as MK vs Capcom's characters, I doubt many people know anyone outside a few of the core MK1 characters and they're probably on the same level as the core SF2 characters

    Basically the assertion that Lui Kang/Sonya/Johnny Cage/Raiden/Sub Zero/Scorpion are better known than Ryu/Ken/Chun Li/Akuma/Bison is pretty hard to make, even factoring in the MK movies
  38. Mass_Pincup

    Mass_Pincup Member

    The market isn't closed, it's your viewpoint that makes it that way.

    You're making a fighting game first and foremost for the EVO crowd, that in and of itself is limitating your target audience. Capcom is basically the only big fighting game publisher in that situation, Namco Bandai is having success with thier Xenoverse franchise, people are extremely excited at the prospect for Fighter Z, the Storm franchise was a resounding success and Tekken 7 already sold more than 2 million units. Netherrealm Studio is consistently selling extremely well with Injustice and Mortal Kombat.

    What all of those have in common is that they cater to a broader audience with detailed visuals, meaty single player content and they favor pick up and play.

    Ono's statement is perfectly encapsulating the problem:
    Not everyone wants to train and study the moves and master them. There's a sizable audience who just want to either play with their friends or against the AI. This competitive mindset is clearly wrking against Capcom and I hope they alter the way they tackle making a fighting game.
  39. #39
  40. LiK

    LiK Member

    Please work on high quality story modes. So far SFV and MvCI's story modes are awful. If you check out Injustice 2 or even most of ArcSystemworks and most recently Tekken 7's story modes, they put a ton of work into them for players who aren't competitive and have any interest in online. You need to give people a hook that is more than just the competitive aspect. Also, more solo modes in general.
  41. Neoxon

    Neoxon Community Resettler Member

    Looks like they're expecting major esports growth by 2020, which is supposed to be when SFV support ends.

    Injustice 2's is solid, but I'm not sure if I'd say that Tekken 7's story is on that level. I say this as someone who likes Tekken 7 way more than Injustice 2.
  42. Chindogg

    Chindogg Member

    In the past year alone we've had tournaments for Smash Bros, Killer Instinct, SFV, MvCI, Tekken 7, Skullgirls, Guilty Gear Xrd, BlazBlue, Gundam Versus, Brawlhalla, and even DBFZ exhibitions. All of these games have vastly different play mechanics from each other so saying that the FGC isn't very accepting of new things outside of pre-established gameplay is actually insulting.
  43. Deft Beck

    Deft Beck Member

    Regardless of how iconic they are, they were both prominent in MvC3. I figure that the main audience for MvC is people who've played the previous ones and will automatically buy it.

    The issue with focusing on single-player modes is that you can't very easily monetize that. MK had the Koins system which could be boosted with microtransactions, so at least WB is trying.
  44. Shroki

    Shroki Member

    Both SFV and Marvel were dumbed down or else simplified for non-competitive audiences.

    What they really need to do is pick a side. You can't develop a game to be accessible, charge $60 for it and market it via PSX and Sony's E3 AND have it be bereft of features and SP content.

    Personally, I'd rather they go the other way. FTP with paid DLC, heavy competitive focus. Lower budget, living game.
  45. Strangelove77

    Strangelove77 Member

    I feel like Capcom only competes with itself and doesn't even try to learn anything from other fighting games. It's a rude awakening to know that gamers do compare games. Every time someone picks up Injustice 2 or Tekken 7 over MvCI or SF5 should be taken more seriously by them. There's something there that you're not offering that other games are and you need to figure it out.
    And you know what's frustrating? I love the Vs. games. Outside of Darkstalkers it's my favorite fighting series, it's my favorite type of gameplay, but I'm not touching Infinite til it's $20 or less. It's so halfassed that I feel that's what they deserve. They need to know there's more to games than gameplay. A lot more.
    In a perfect world we'd have MvCI with Xmen and Netherealm and Arcsys content and production value.
  46. Jessmo24

    Jessmo24 Member

    The irony is that if MVCI was a switch launch game then sales targets would likely be met, and we would not even have this conservation.
  47. TwoCoins

    TwoCoins Member

    Another gripe, my issue with Ono supposedly a fan of Overwatch, but the females get way more costumes than the guys, and they new females get sluttier and sluttier every year....but Overwatch has barely any "fan service" sans Widow (which fits her design and is still pretty tame compared to any fanservice in most japanese game or Street Fighter) And people love the characters not because of how smutty they look, but how well designed they are. From Tracer Mei, Pharah, Ana, Zarya you already have such a wide variety in females from size, shape and age. And yet are more recognizable than anyone of the females from Street Fighter that isn't name Cammy or Chun li. And don't need double D breasts and a thong to achieve that.
  48. Xaszatm

    Xaszatm Member

    I mean, given how negatively people still treat Smash, I'd say the person still has a point. If it is a side-game, then we don't mind, but no, we can be rather closed-minded.
  49. Gestault

    Gestault Member

    I really can't deny how much the art-style (or maybe just art execution) influenced my reaction to the new MvC, which SHOULD have been a "done deal" in terms of my purchase. The current-gen re-release for UMvC3 absolutely murdered my interest in MvCI by contrast.
  50. Shroki

    Shroki Member

    How the classic FGC treats Smash is night and day different from how they did 5 years ago.

    There are always going to be haters in any community. Nobody is exempt from that.