You don't win elections with left/right. You win elections with a strong and easy to understand MESSAGE, even if it's extremely left/right

Albatross

Member
Nov 11, 2017
166
Let's get one thing clear: people like us on Era are almost completely useless in deciding the result of an election. And the same goes for our equivalent on the right.
People who are interested in politics usually have a very precise idea of which side they're gonna vote, and it changes very rarely.

The ones who decide the result are all the rest: people who usually are NOT interested in politics or have a vague interest, but not strong personal values which can make them opt for one side in a consistant way.
One common mistake is thinking that these people are centrists, that they are scared of parties which strongly veer in one direction.
This is the reason why you always hear about "electability" from centrists people like Biden.

This is completely wrong.
And it's not a problem concerning only the left. I clearly remember that, after the double debacle against Obama, american right-wing strategists concluded that the party should move somewhat to center to return to power, opening up to minorities to get their vote.
Trump was considered completely un-electable even by them, not only because he was a buffoon, but because he was clearly too far right to reach enough people. We all know they were completely wrong.

The point is: there are LOTS of people who wouldn't care less for right and left, far right or far left. Most of them are either too lazy, too uneducated or too busy to inform themselves about politics and politicians.
What they want/need is simplicity. A easy to understand message. It does NOT matter if it's extremely right or left, if it's true or 100% propaganda.
Also, they don't care if the party leader is a scholar or an ignorant, a benefactor or an asshole, if they have charisma it's perfect.

The most common, strong and easy to use message is CHANGE. It barely matters what kind of change.
The average person is deeply unsatisfied by their life, they want the illusion that they can change it. When a politician says to them "you can change it very easily, you just have to vote for me", it's enough for them.
And this is why we will never reach a world where the right or the left will prevail forever. Alternance is inevitable because it's in the human nature to be unsatisfied in the long term, to search for something different or "new" (the far right has an advantage because it has been dormant for decades and people have a very short memory).

Another strong part of the message is the SCAPEGOAT. It doesn't matter if, when you look closely, it doesn't make sense.
Most people don't want to look close, they need a scapegoat, a "monster", they need an easy target. Jews, homosexuals, immigrants, foreign countries, you name it. It has to be something the people can easily see in a way or another, but not too close to them, otherwise they'll realize it's bullshit.

Let's look at the UK elections. Brexit is a very strong message.
Brexit is easy to understand: the EU is the cause of every problem (scapegoat), we need to leave (change).
Does it matter that almost nobody (including the politicians) know what actually Brexit means? No, Brexit is a magic word, is a dream. It's like religion: it just feel good, you don't have to study, to investigate what it means.
The harder the Brexit, the stronger the message, this is why Farage and Johnson succedeed (and while May with her "weak" deal lost).

And what message did the left have? Could they be weaker? They wouldn't even commit to brexit or no-brexit (tough to be fair, even if their message was a clear "no brexit", it would have been a weaker message, people don't want to hear "let's remain like this", it's the opposite of change).

Trump is the same. His MAGA is genious and successful because it contains a mixture of scapegoat, change and the nostalgia of good old times (which probably weren't good, but it doesn't matter, nostalgia doesn't make sense most of the time).

Now I cannot offer a simple recipe for the left (worldwide left) to suddenly turn the table in the short term (who knows, maybe we'll need to see the repeat of the Nazi shit in order for the pendulum to swing back). The right will probably always have an advantage in spreading their message because the fear/hate for the "other" is a deep part of the human nature.

But what I think is that being afraid to go for strong ideas on the left and court the center instead is a big mistake.
The center, the compromise is a very weak message when the other side is literally shouting their shit from the roofs.
You look unsure, you look un-charismatic, you may look safe, but you also look weak, you do not INSPIRE people.
Maybe it could be the answer in another time, not right now, not with the power the far-right has now.

But strong ideas on the left are not nearly enough. They need to learn to COMUNICATE them.
The Message. It's sad, but this is what gives you the victory, not the ideas.


PS: When I said that our vote is "useless" doesn't mean that we don't have to go to vote. We MUST vote, in order to balance our equivalents on the right.
What I meant is that our vote is like a constant. It is necessary to reach the result, but ultimately is all in the hands of others.
 

Jiminy

Avenger
Mar 29, 2018
6,187
100%. Every vote won over the last 10 years has been on a super clear, basic, even animalistic message.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,947
We don't win (important) elections because shit is rigged and always has been.
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
Memes. Use memes. Become a meme. People will vote for memes. Tell Trump to go fuck himself, you will get attention. Then meme some more. You'll be in Tik Toks, people on twitch will makes emotes of you. Come up with ironic shirts for people to wear.

Congrats, you beat Trump
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,116
I agree with this (maybe because the topic itself is a pretty strong and easy to understand message)
 

meowdi gras

Member
Feb 24, 2018
7,450
You forgot likable (or charismatic) candidates.
In the 21st century, it cannot be overestimated how vital "cult of personality" is for galvanizing voters. In an age when our fictional heroes are more larger-than-life than ever, perhaps that's the only way we can take notice of a candidate, irrespective of how ideal or repugnant their platform is.
 

ToddBonzalez

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,132
Yes this is true. Say what you will about his presidency, but Obama did an excellent job capitalizing on this with his hope and change campaign messaging.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,615
Nuh uh, you win by constantly polling and adjusting to whatever the polls say and having 'electable' (approved by the mega donors) candidates.
 

John Caboose

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,645
Sweden
Make America Great Again
Get Brexit Done
A New Deal
Yes We Can

A short, simple, repeatable message that people can fill with whatever meaning they want it to have.

This stuff wins elections.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,390
England
Messages like take back control during the referendum was powerful, remain didn't have an answer to it, the same with election the message was simple and easy to understand Get Brexit Done it unified all the leave voters to vote for the Tories and it worked.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,214
You win with likability really. Celebrity. Being the cool or fun or hip or interesting candidate, regardless of any politics really. At least in my lifetime.

Which is why I want to scream my face off when people say Biden is more electable then Sanders. Like the last two presidents aren’t clear rebuttals of the classic electability concept.
 

Pomerlaw

Erarboreal
Member
Feb 25, 2018
5,157
I agree with you OP, even if it hurts to do so.

Another strong part of the message is the SCAPEGOAT. It doesn't matter if, when you look closely, it doesn't make sense.
Most people don't want to look close, they need a scapegoat, a "monster", they need an easy target. Jews, homosexuals, immigrants, foreign countries, you name it. It has to be something the people can easily see in a way or another, but not too close to them, otherwise they'll realize it's bullshit.

It is a frightening thought that man also has a shadow side to him, consisting not just of little weaknesses- and foibles, but of a positively demonic dynamism. The individual seldom knows anything of this; to him, as an individual, it is incredible that he should ever in any circumstances go beyond himself. But let these harmless creatures form a mass, and there emerges a raging monster; and each individual is only one tiny cell in the monster’s body, so that for better or worse he must accompany it on its bloody rampages and even assist it to the utmost. Having a dark suspicion of these grim possibilities, man turns a blind eye to the shadow-side of human nature.

The Shadow is a very common archetype that reflects deeper elements of our psyche, where 'latent dispositions' which are common to us all arise. It also reflects something that was once split from us in early management of the objects in our lives.

We may see the shadow in others and, if we dare, know it in ourselves. Mostly, however, we deny it in ourselves and project it onto others.


- Carl Jung
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
Medicare 4 all is catchy enough but the logical next step from there is "heal the country" as a message. Simple, hope and changey, actually involves literally giving people access to medicine.

Obviously I do agree with the thesis. It's why, as I say, I try to inhabit a posting style that takes dense historical analysis and tries to summarize it into posts rarely more than a few sentences long. I think it might be working.
 

Artdayne

Member
Nov 7, 2017
4,220
I think Bernie's message has largely been simple and effective even if he has to fight tooth and nail against capital owners to be heard.
 

Frankish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
USA
Yes exactly

This is why Bernie with his great message destroyed Hillary last election, and why he would do the same against Trump
 
Oct 27, 2017
13,465
"Quand je fais une campagne, je ne la fais jamais pour les gens intelligents [...], je fais campagne auprès des cons et là je ramasse des voix en masse, dans deux ans pour être de nouveau élu, je ferai campagne sur des conneries populaires, pas sur des trucs intelligents que j’aurai fait.".

"Les cons sont majoritaires, et moi j’ai toujours été élu par une majorité de cons et ça continue parce que je sais comment les « engraner », « j’engrane » les cons avec ma bonne tête, je raconte des histoires de cul, etc… ça un succès de fou, ça a un succès fou [...] les cons sont cons et en plus ils sont bien dans leur connerie."

(Georges Frêche)
 

Pedrito

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,925
The problem is that most of these tactics only work if you're morally bankrupt. Center-left/left politicians are also held to a different standard. They must present a realistic plan and have an answer for everything. Right-wingers can just spew bullshit and they'll be called "colourful".

Another problem is that grand leftist ideas ain't that popular anyway. Outside of college kids, most people only like social programs if it benefits them. They don't really see that in the grand scheme of things, improving the life of everyone is also improving theirs.

So good luck finding a grand progressive idea to campaign on that would be popular and easy to grasp.
"Medicare for all"? How is that polling? "Medicare for all whites", now that would resonate with the MAGA crowd and the economically anxious.
 

phonicjoy

Member
Jun 19, 2018
2,995
Let's get one thing clear: people like us on Era are almost completely useless in deciding the result of an election. And the same goes for our equivalent on the right.
People who are interested in politics usually have a very precise idea of which side they're gonna vote, and it changes very rarely.

The ones who decide the result are all the rest: people who usually are NOT interested in politics or have a vague interest, but not strong personal values which can make them opt for one side in a consistant way.
One common mistake is thinking that these people are centrists, that they are scared of parties which strongly veer in one direction.
This is the reason why you always hear about "electability" from centrists people like Biden.

This is completely wrong.
And it's not a problem concerning only the left. I clearly remember that, after the double debacle against Obama, american right-wing strategists concluded that the party should move somewhat to center to return to power, opening up to minorities to get their vote.
Trump was considered completely un-electable even by them, not only because he was a buffoon, but because he was clearly too far right to reach enough people. We all know they were completely wrong.

The point is: there are LOTS of people who wouldn't care less for right and left, far right or far left. Most of them are either too lazy, too uneducated or too busy to inform themselves about politics and politicians.
What they want/need is simplicity. A easy to understand message. It does NOT matter if it's extremely right or left, if it's true or 100% propaganda.
Also, they don't care if the party leader is a scholar or an ignorant, a benefactor or an asshole, if they have charisma it's perfect.

The most common, strong and easy to use message is CHANGE. It barely matters what kind of change.
The average person is deeply unsatisfied by their life, they want the illusion that they can change it. When a politician says to them "you can change it very easily, you just have to vote for me", it's enough for them.
And this is why we will never reach a world where the right or the left will prevail forever. Alternance is inevitable because it's in the human nature to be unsatisfied in the long term, to search for something different or "new" (the far right has an advantage because it has been dormant for decades and people have a very short memory).

Another strong part of the message is the SCAPEGOAT. It doesn't matter if, when you look closely, it doesn't make sense.
Most people don't want to look close, they need a scapegoat, a "monster", they need an easy target. Jews, homosexuals, immigrants, foreign countries, you name it. It has to be something the people can easily see in a way or another, but not too close to them, otherwise they'll realize it's bullshit.

Let's look at the UK elections. Brexit is a very strong message.
Brexit is easy to understand: the EU is the cause of every problem (scapegoat), we need to leave (change).
Does it matter that almost nobody (including the politicians) know what actually Brexit means? No, Brexit is a magic word, is a dream. It's like religion: it just feel good, you don't have to study, to investigate what it means.
The harder the Brexit, the stronger the message, this is why Farage and Johnson succedeed (and while May with her "weak" deal lost).

And what message did the left have? Could they be weaker? They wouldn't even commit to brexit or no-brexit (tough to be fair, even if their message was a clear "no brexit", it would have been a weaker message, people don't want to hear "let's remain like this", it's the opposite of change).

Trump is the same. His MAGA is genious and successful because it contains a mixture of scapegoat, change and the nostalgia of good old times (which probably weren't good, but it doesn't matter, nostalgia doesn't make sense most of the time).

Now I cannot offer a simple recipe for the left (worldwide left) to suddenly turn the table in the short term (who knows, maybe we'll need to see the repeat of the Nazi shit in order for the pendulum to swing back). The right will probably always have an advantage in spreading their message because the fear/hate for the "other" is a deep part of the human nature.

But what I think is that being afraid to go for strong ideas on the left and court the center instead is a big mistake.
The center, the compromise is a very weak message when the other side is literally shouting their shit from the roofs.
You look unsure, you look un-charismatic, you may look safe, but you also look weak, you do not INSPIRE people.
Maybe it could be the answer in another time, not right now, not with the power the far-right has now.

But strong ideas on the left are not nearly enough. They need to learn to COMUNICATE them.
The Message. It's sad, but this is what gives you the victory, not the ideas.


PS: When I said that our vote is "useless" doesn't mean that we don't have to go to vote. We MUST vote, in order to balance our equivalents on the right.
What I meant is that our vote is like a constant. It is necessary to reach the result, but ultimately is all in the hands of others.
OP, you’re absolutely right.
 

Horns

Member
Dec 7, 2018
1,510
Not sure I 100% agree with all of that. Let's be honest it's easier to lie your ass off. Selling emotionally charged messages based on hate and disingenuous claims are a simple way to energize uninformed hateful voters. To make matters worse when the media tries to treat both sides the same they treat the dishonest players with kid gloves compared to the side being more honest.
 

asd202

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,241
Wasn't Labour in favor of Brexit as well? They just did not present on how they exactly want to do it while Tories already had a "solution" and they just needed more votes in Parliment.
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,828
We don't win (important) elections because shit is rigged and always has been.
Can you stop with this shit?

Every election that Dems have won wasn’t an important one? What even is this ignorant conspiracy theory drivel?

Yeah, 2018 sure wasn’t important with impeachment happening right now!

Do you show up at rallies yelling “WE’RE NOT GONNA WIN GIVE UP AND GO HOME”?
 
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Pilgrimzero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,130
In the 21st century, it cannot be overestimated how vital "cult of personality" is for galvanizing voters. In an age when our fictional heroes are more larger-than-life than ever, perhaps that's the only way we can take notice of a candidate, irrespective of how ideal or repugnant their platform is.
closer and closer to Idiocracy
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,824
Pencils Vania
Obama’s “Yes We Can” and HOPE campaign is an excellent example.

I don’t understand how zero Dems have learned from his success.
 

Garjon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,331
I said this as soon as the UK election was called.

Get Brexit Done. Doesn't matter how BS it was, doesn't matter what was said about it, it was an easy, digestible slogan and it won the Tories the election.

I got so much shit for saying that originally as well.
 

ISOM

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,684
Right wing messages are much easier to convey this way imo.
This too. Selling leftist ideas as costing too much or taking money away from your pockets is a lot easier than trying to say people should care or have empathy. A lot of people are cynical and selfish and have a fuck you got mine mentality.