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You technically shouldn't be able to see your enemies whilst in cover in TPS games, how about making an AAA game that adheres to this logic?
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In the real world you have way better situational awareness. 360 degree sound detection from scuffles, weapon cocking and breathing. In addition you can turn around or spray around the corner without popping half your body out of cover. Being able to peek around the battlefield in third person a bit is a compromise for the lack of physical fidelity programmed into the game. Changing this arguably wouldn't make the game more realistic, but less so.
The thing is, we've an almost unlimited number of games that have already done or do what you're talking about, so why not experiment with something different? Why not have a more realistic sim based shooter or third person shooter that does some of the things the OP is referring to, that might stand out among an endless sea of arcade shooters? For all we know it might make for a really unique, tense and exciting experience.
Personally I think we need to do away with this notion that a handholding field of view is a must for every game. I use God of War as an example of what being ever so slightly more daring with camera can offer, in that I loved its up close and more intimate camera, and the fact that it demands more from the player in terms of spacial awareness and environmental or enemy management, plus gauging audio cues etc.
I think the idea of not being able to see enemies whilst behind cover in a shooter, and having to instead rely on audio cues, ricochet or impact points, footsteps, peeking, shadows, blind fire, corner shooting, stealth and so on, could be quite exciting.
Hmmm, in a 3rd person action game, the explicit idea is that your camera is not what the character sees, which is why you can (usually) also rotate the camera around the character.
Isn't the explicit idea that 3rd person is more 'cinematic' because you're essentially a floating camera looking at the protagonist doing some sweet platforming and some dope shooting? I don't think the 3rd person camera's main goal is 'you can look around corners', that's a side-effect.
I don't see a benefit in somehow having an "all seeing" camera that is artificially restricted what things it sees.
Isn't the explicit idea that 3rd person is more 'cinematic' because you're essentially a floating camera looking at the protagonist doing some sweet platforming and some dope shooting? I don't think the 3rd person camera's main goal is 'you can look around corners', that's a side-effect.
I don't see a benefit in somehow having an "all seeing" camera that is artificially restricted what things it sees.
First-person shooters already do that. It's third-person shooters like Fortnite that like to let you see the enemies easily even when you take cover.
without being able to see in cover, i doubt uncharted or gears be so popular. its the intensity of getting fire in cover that generate some kind of action pack scene. and uncharted's movie like action pack scenes are what makes ppl talk about it.
Visual penalty for staying in cover doesn't make sense for games with high stealth emphasis or for competitive games that don't punish breaking cover (ie long ttk).
You would have to have amazing sound design in a stealth game to make up for not being able to scrub around corners and desks.
You would have to have amazing sound design in a stealth game to make up for not being able to scrub around corners and desks.
The game SCUM does this. I don't know how well it works. It seems like it would be jarring to see enemies pop up out of thin air when you turn a corner, at least at first.
It could also be confusing and frustrating if the game isn't clear what the player character can see. Imagine looking through a room and thinking it's clear only to have someone pop up behind some odd geometry that hid them from the character but not your camera.
It could also be confusing and frustrating if the game isn't clear what the player character can see. Imagine looking through a room and thinking it's clear only to have someone pop up behind some odd geometry that hid them from the character but not your camera.
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I feel this kind of restriction can create potential to spark creativity.
For example a TPS where the field of view of the player character dictates the clarity of the game scene would be intriguing. Wherein anything in the fov would be clear and anything outside would be hazy/undefined. And this undefined property would affect objects differently: Static objects are more visible (walls, furniture, etc), variable objects are extremely undefined in their current position and their definite position can only be detected by getting them into your characters fov. (kind of like a detective vision esque look for anything outside the fov but without the positional information of enemies)
This combined with a shooter which is extremely unforgiving in terms of ttk would be really intense to play. Cover becomes more important but now will create a situation where it costs situational awareness as you cant immediately determine enemy position around cover, so that encourages play like suppression and repositioning where you pop up not to shoot but get an idea of where the enemy position is and use it to consider your next move in terms of repositioning or engaging in combat. In combat arenas with 1-3 opponents it might create this really intense game of hide and seek that is about using the limitation of vision for both the player and AI to use cover in order to flank and find better positioning rather than just pop and shoot of a typical cover shooter.
For example a TPS where the field of view of the player character dictates the clarity of the game scene would be intriguing. Wherein anything in the fov would be clear and anything outside would be hazy/undefined. And this undefined property would affect objects differently: Static objects are more visible (walls, furniture, etc), variable objects are extremely undefined in their current position and their definite position can only be detected by getting them into your characters fov. (kind of like a detective vision esque look for anything outside the fov but without the positional information of enemies)
This combined with a shooter which is extremely unforgiving in terms of ttk would be really intense to play. Cover becomes more important but now will create a situation where it costs situational awareness as you cant immediately determine enemy position around cover, so that encourages play like suppression and repositioning where you pop up not to shoot but get an idea of where the enemy position is and use it to consider your next move in terms of repositioning or engaging in combat. In combat arenas with 1-3 opponents it might create this really intense game of hide and seek that is about using the limitation of vision for both the player and AI to use cover in order to flank and find better positioning rather than just pop and shoot of a typical cover shooter.
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I have an even better idea OP. What if in a shooter, instead of having a floating third-person camera, the camera was like, your character's eyes. Then you'd only see what they see all the time.
I'm gonna make fuckin' millions.
What I'm glibly getting at is that if devs want to make a shooter where you can only see what the character sees... they make a game where you can only see what the character sees. ie. an FPS.
I'm gonna make fuckin' millions.
What I'm glibly getting at is that if devs want to make a shooter where you can only see what the character sees... they make a game where you can only see what the character sees. ie. an FPS.
OP
OP
Seems like a fun idea, especially if combined with for example leaving a character contours of last seen location.
Should be quite easy to implement in cover mode, but being not in cover, but near edge a wall and culling other characters could be problematic.
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Should be quite easy to implement in cover mode, but being not in cover, but near edge a wall and culling other characters could be problematic.
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Because its not FPP?
I mean, you make perfectly valid points, and I'm never against any company wanting to strive in new directions and try new things (even when it doesn't work). The only issue here is that following the inspiring logic - that in real-life our view is more limited - one very shortly arrives at creating a first person shooter, which already does all the things you've mentioned.
It would be more realistic? Yes, but it would also be a lot less fun.
It's video game, and video games are supposed to be fun to play.
So yeah, I guess it's not a good idea.
It's video game, and video games are supposed to be fun to play.
So yeah, I guess it's not a good idea.
I've always wanted to be able to drive and park in 3rd person IRL.
Came here to say this. Of course some games lean into realism but, by and large, most TPS games have a ton of compromises for fun. Seeing over walls is the least of the unrealistic shit.
Most RTS's do work like that actually.
Line of sight is an important variable for RTS units.
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I don't think this is an issue for single player games but this is exactly why third person shooters are trash in multiplayer. A bunch of people sitting behind walls with perfect information ready to peek out at anyone being on the offensive. PUBG was especially awful with it until they added FPP.
These games already exist- they are called First Person Shooters.
For single-player games, I don't particularly mind this "super-awareness" ability, although I think your idea has potential for more tactical games like Ghost Recon. In competitive multiplayer, though, the peeker's advantage inherent with third-person perspective is terrible, and I absolutely approve reducing or eliminating it entirely.
Exactly.
Exactly.
The Order 1886 on PS4 almost did something like this; when Grayson is behind the cover, the game camera purposely limits the view just a bit, almost barely seeing the enemies ahead, unless when looking from the side of cover which has more range to see ahead.
I thought it was annoying at first, but only later I appreciate the mechanic since it's a bit different than any TPS I play previously, also adding some challenge to position the shot myself behind the cover.
I thought it was annoying at first, but only later I appreciate the mechanic since it's a bit different than any TPS I play previously, also adding some challenge to position the shot myself behind the cover.
you're right and i thought about that too, but then TPS always always allow you to move the camera around, peek behind corners and generally see stuff you shouldn't be able to: It evens out not being able to accurately place noises and turn your head as fast as you could in real life (except when using mouse+kb maybe).
Plus most games somewhat simulate that by giving you the possibility to blind shoot from behind cover but requiring you to stick your head out to aim.
Plus most games somewhat simulate that by giving you the possibility to blind shoot from behind cover but requiring you to stick your head out to aim.
People writing thats there is FPP already or that TPS do not work like that please use imagination.
Devs do not need to change the camera, they can just hide the enemies when you are behind the cover.
Previous example from posters about PUBG having a system like make tons of sense and actually wish that TPP battleroyale games implemented it.
Devs do not need to change the camera, they can just hide the enemies when you are behind the cover.
Previous example from posters about PUBG having a system like make tons of sense and actually wish that TPP battleroyale games implemented it.
Even though I think it is a very stupid idea, I can think of a theme for it: an indie game with early PS1 3D graphics where you play as guards in a secret facility. There is also a spy trying to invade the place, and the guards you control only see in a cone. Everything outside of the cone is darkness. Then, you have to play as different guards, changing every once in a while, giving orders and plot guarding routines so that you cover the most of that space that you can. Kind of like a subversion of Metal Gear, by turning the limits of the goons in the PS1 game into a tactical third-person shooter mechanic.
It could even be a roguelite, where the industrial maze is different everytime, and the spy is also different.
It could even be a roguelite, where the industrial maze is different everytime, and the spy is also different.
The issue with FPP in this context is that you have a much, much larger FOV than a 16:9 monitor, and TPS is a compromise between extending your peripheral vision and not having an ugly fish-eye effect when rendering. I like what The Order 1886 did (when mounting up in cover, your view is severely restricted), but I'd also want to see more of an emphasis on sound in those cases.
Wireless VR headset streaming footage from a drone cam tethered over your shoulder.
Seems like a pretty feasible concept. Someone with more resources and know-how should get on that.
This just made me think of an idea to try, rather than doing things like blurring vision just make a smarter camera that is aware of its surroundings and adjusts itself accordingly to avoid being able to look around corners
Could possibly be annoying and/or affect gameplay though, gonna mock something up in Dreams to find out lol
Could possibly be annoying and/or affect gameplay though, gonna mock something up in Dreams to find out lol